Will Jesus save everyone who claim they believe in Him?
Many people have voiced many opinions about how to understand salvation. The only valid explanation is found on the Bible. If you have followed a copy of Jesus, you have served Satan. Those who served Satan, will not be found in the Kingdom of Heaven.
Matthew 7:22-24
Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’
First we need to acknowledge that there are multiple copies of Jesus around us.
2 Corinthians 11:4
For if someone comes to you and preaches a Jesus other than the Jesus we preached, or if you receive a different spirit from the Spirit you received, or a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it easily enough.
Lets take a look at the most common of them.
1. Jesus of my own choice:
You might have heard people say something like: “I believe in Jesus, but do not believe there is a Hell”. Such a statement tells us that there must be a “hell bound” Jesus around. He is a lawless man, because such claims make Jesus of Nazareth a liar. The Bible says that there is a Hell.
Many people have even said a “sinners prayer” to this copy-cat, and claim they have been “born again”. I could have printed endless examples of people who believe in such a “Jesus”. Endless examples of personal opinions who contradict the Bible.
2. Jesus of Rome:
This copy-cat has many similarities with the above version. The only difference, is that this “Jesus” is “the Popes choice”. Only he can program him, with all kind of Catholic dogmas that contradict the scriptures. The ultimate worshipers of skulls, bones and corpses are found in this cult.
3. Jesus the “Rich Messiah”:
This copy is an American copy of the Jewish Messiah. This “Jesus” was supposed to be rich on Earth, and all who believe in him is supposed to be richly blessed with material blessings. I also call this copy-cat the “ATM-Jesus”. Because to be able to take out the cash from the nearest ATM, you first need to put some money into the account of the preachers of the prosperity Gospel.
4. Jesus of the Koran:
This copy of Jesus is not divine, but a mortal man. He was a fantastic teacher, and a brilliant prophet. But not at all the Son of God, equally God as His Father. He did not save anyone, could not even save him self from being crucified.
5. Jesus of Jehova’s witness:
This cult claims only God is the Alpha and Omega, the creator. “Jesus” was His first creation, and not a co-creator. Since the Bible says we shall only worship the creator, this Jesus copy claim that worship of him is a sin. Do not even pray in his name.
6. Jesus of the Mormons:
The Bible is not the only inspired book, that reveals the truth about who God is. Jesus of the Mormons have added another Bible, that was revealed to a prophet in America, 1700 years after Jesus died on the cross in Jerusalem.
This copycat make you a product of relativism. Anything might be permissible. There might be a lot of undiscovered “Holy books”.
7. Jesus of the New Age:
New Ager’s have a Jesus-copy. He is only one God among many, and one gate among many gates to the Kingdom of Heaven. New Age is basically not new at all. Its is the oldest of the religions who are present on Earth today. It is called Hinduism.
8. Jesus outside the prophetic word.
This is the Jesus Only, a Messiah of the New Testament Only. This cult claims that There is not much interesting found about him in the Old Testament. He do not pay attention to the prophetic Word, or His Fathers eternal promises, and is absolutely not behind the restoration of Israel.
Jesus of Nazareth:
The true Jesus of Nazareth is the Word of God, explained to us in the Biblical canon. This canon was closed by The Holy Spirit. All who have reopened the cannon, have committed a not forgivable sin against the Holy Spirit. The cults are doomed for the everlasting fire.
Make no mistake. All who do not believe in The Word of God that came in flesh, have all fallen into the pit of deception.
First published: December 11th 2010
Written by Ivar
ivarfjeld.com 
Even the elect will be deceived -if that is possible
http://www.wwyd.org/
http://www.youtube.com/user/SaltnVinegarPringles
His name Yahushua not je-us
you should see these sites to add to your many truths you already have.
Dear Put YAHW 1st.
Shalom.
I looked at you link, and I would like to explain to you:
God of Israel is the only God for all human beings. His Son, the Messiah explained this to us. He said: You have a Father in Heaven. When He introduced his students in how to pray, The Anointed One told them to pray to the Father in Heaven.
When we baptize people, we do so in the name of the The Father the Son and the Holy Spirit. Not in the name of Elohim, YAWH or El Shadai. Three names the Hebrews used to explain who the Father is. All of them is the name of God of the Hebrews.
Your teaching is deceptive, and lead people astray into a strange form of New Judaism. You and your flock claim God of the Bible is some kind of legalistic fellow, who sits in His Kingdom of Heaven, and simply cant wait to throw all who can not pronounced his “only name” in Hebrew correctly into Hell.
This is simply not the truth.
“The King of the Jews”. This was written in three different languages on the cross. In Norway your name for the Messiah, can not be pronounced the way you want it to be pronounced. – Do you think the Messiah would speak to a Norwegian in Hebrew, or do you think the Messiah would speak in Norwegian?
“Yahushua” in Norwegian do not mean anything. But Jesus is understood to be He who saves, and the Only One who can save. Only Jesus from Nazareth can save. Not the correct version of his name. Jesus is the anointed One, sent to us to be a servant of God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Amen.
Westboro baptist church is a great example of an organization that leads people straight to hell.
They claim that Jesus hates people, but they do not realize that Jesus does not want anyone to perish, but to accept his gift of salvation.
This organization has even gone so far as picketing funerals, and shouting hateful slurs.
Christ is coming and with that judgment on all.
Galatians 5:19-21: 19 Now the works of the flesh are obvious, which are: adultery, sexual immorality, uncleanness, lustfulness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, strife, jealousies, outbursts of anger, rivalries, divisions, heresies, 21 envyings, murders, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these; of which I forewarn you, even as I also forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the Kingdom of God.
Dear Gloria.
Shalom.
We have behind us a debate, if everyone who “believe in Jesus” will end up in the Kingdom of Heaven. I have made my case for Jesus of Nazareth. Only He can save. The most dangerous people a Christian can face, are false Christians. Non-believers is no treat to the body of Jesus.
You speak the truth Ivar.
God Bless.
My name is Sandie. If I go to Italy I’m still Sandie, if I go to Germany I’m still Sandie. A form of Sandie is Alexandria, but if I go to Greece and someone calls me Alexandria, I would not answer them because that is not my name. Proverbs 30:4 says:
Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? who hath gathered the wind in his fists? who hath bound the waters in a garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth? what is His Name, and what is His Son’s Name, if thou canst tell?
I believe this verse indicates that there would be confusion regarding His Name.
Psalm 68:4 says:
Sing unto God, sing praises to His Name: extol Him that rideth upon the heavens by His Name JAH, and rejoice before Him.
Of course there is no “J” in the Hebrew language (which the Old Testament was written in) so that should actually read YAH. There is also no “J” in the Greek language.
I think these verses from YHWH”S very Word show that it IS important what we call Him. He was not called “Jesus” when He walked the earth. However, I do not believe He eagerly waits to throw someone into hell for mispronouncing His Name. To think such a thing only proves an ignorance as to the character of God, Who is not willing that any should perish.
Dear Sandie
Shalom.
You wrote:
He was not called “Jesus” when He walked the earth.
My comment:
By what name was Pilate addressing Jesus” He was not a Hebrew, but spoke latin?
By what language was the Samaritan woman addressing Jesus? She was not a Jew, but a Gentile?
Many Jews were living in Greece, and came to Jerusalem to celebrate the passover. They were Greek Jews. In Greek they addressed Him as “Isous”.
In what language shall a Norwegian address the Messiah. “Y’SH” can hardly be pronounced in Norwegian. And we are not able to read and understand Hebrew.
Pilate solved the language issue, by writing the message on the cross, in three different language. JESUS, THE KING of the JEWS.
John 19:18-20
There they crucified him, and with him two others—one on each side and Jesus in the middle.
Pilate had a notice prepared and fastened to the cross. It read: JESUS OF NAZARETH, THE KING OF THE JEWS. Many of the Jews read this sign, for the place where Jesus was crucified was near the city, and the sign was written in Aramaic, Latin and Greek.
“Even the elect will be deceived -if that is possible”
But the Truth is: IT IS NOT POSSIBLE TO DECEIVE THE ELECT! Though the devil tries very hard 😀
John 6:39
And this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
Why?!
The SPIRIT OF TRUTH is with the Elect.
Here is another jesus you may or may not heard of… http://www.einterface.net/gamini/maitreya.html..
Yahushua be with you ,Shabbat Shalom
And there are more copycats of “Jesus”. I just discovered in horrific that Calvinism movement aren’t follow the true Jesus.
1. Jesus of Calvinism
2. Jesus of Latter Days movement
3. Jesus of Pentecostalism/charismatics
4. Jesus of Anglicanism
5. Jesus of Adventism
6. Jesus of Eastern Orthodox Church
And there are countless of copycat Jesus. When I share the gospel about Jesus in a forum, one person once said to me, “Chrisians are killing many people” I showed him a verse which Jesus said love your enemy, do good on them who persecuted you, pray for them who curses you. He shuns me off.
Satan worked hard to destroy the Christianity and many people find it hard to believe Jesus as Son of God. A verse is fulfilling today – as it is written: “2 Thessalonians 2:3 (KJV)
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come , except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2 Thessalonians 2:3 (NLT)
Don’t be fooled by what they say. For that day will not come until there is a great rebellion against God and the man of lawlessness is revealed-the one who brings destruction.”
Apostasy =
The falling away from true Bible Faith through un-biblical movements , Word of Faith, grace + works, seeker services, the Purpose Driven movement, Emerging/Emergent movement, Mysticism, Gnosticism.
Antichrist is coming soon, be ready for Jesus’s coming soon. Prays always and be watch. Amen.
Are 7th Day Adventists real Christians in your opinion?
Dear elizabethregister
Shalom.
You asked:
Are 7th Day Adventists real Christians in your opinion?
My reply:
Real Christians….My opinion…..
A follower of Jesus, do not want to be sent to “soul sleep”. What is the purpose of being sent sleeping into the afterlife?
Paul exposed this central doctrine of this religious society. He desire to be out of his body today, and be home with King Messiah.
2 Corinthians 5:7-9
For we live by faith, not by sight. We are confident, I say, and would prefer to be away from the body and at home with the Lord. So we make it our goal to please him, whether we are at home in the body or away from it.
(end of scripture)
The SDA-doctrine of “soul sleep” and the Roman Catholic doctrine of Purgatory are very similar. They both believe there is a realm that is neither Earth nor Heaven, when the souls are kept in waiting. Not properly saved. That is a rejection of the cross. Jesus died for nothing.
Both the SDA and the Roman Catholics believe, it is into the afterlife, someday, He will cleanse us and save us.
First of all I apologize for the long comment. I don’t mean to preach on your blog. It is not in my competence.
I think SDA believe about afterlife is supported by bible.
Obviously you consider the soul to be separate entity from the body.
Bible can NOT contradict itself.
(Gen 2:7) “And YAHWEH Elohim formed the man from the dust of the ground, and blew into his nostrils the breath of life; and the man became a living soul.”
– Man did not receive the soul, he is the soul.
So if Ezekiel says in 18:4, “…. The soul that sins, it shall die.”
it should respond to the fact that man dies.
And if one reads (Ecc 12:7) “then the dust shall return to the earth as it was, and the spirit shall return to The Elohim who gave it.”
One can clearly see, there is a difference between soul and spirit.
Following question is important, is man conscious after death?
NO! – Ecc 9:5, 6 ” … the dead do not know anything”.
Now, we all know, Jesus often spoke in parables, but when he spoke about Lazarus (John 11:11-14) the whole matter was real. Was Jesus wrong to say Lazarus is sleeping? Definitely not. From his point of view every dead person really only sleeps.
Does it mean there is different world where all dead sleep? That is ridiculous assumption. I don’t think SDA church teaches that.
One dies, that is it. He/she wakes up only at resurrection.
The fact that some saints – holly man that God chooses to be with him already, doesn’t contradict this at all.
Why is there going to be resurection at second coming, if everyone’s fate is decided about right after death?
In my opinion, whole hell dogma is biblical truth turned upside down by Catholic church. I’m realy suspicious to every teaching and tradition coming from that cult.
Regarding Jehovah Witnesses, they do pray to God in Jesus name. They believe He is their savior too.
I am a muslim, I just want to clarify that in muslim’s faith, Jesus (or Isa al-masih in Arabic) was not crucified. It was Judas. Jesus was saved by God, and has been kept somewhere out there until the day to finish his job on Earth comes. Jesus will lead faithful people to fight against the false Messiah (also known as al-masih Dajjal). And yes, we do believe that he is just a man. Not God,
By the way, the picture you posted on the subtitle “Jesus in the Koran” is a picture made by Shiites (syiah), a sect that is considered as “”heretic” by some muslims. There is a harsh prohibition in Islam when it comes to illustrating religious leaders, since it is considered to lead people worshipping them. Just simply want to make everything clear 🙂
yes, both of your posts explain well (so clearly!) the classic position of Islam about the Jesus called Isa (but that biblical Christians believe is a different Jesus), and in case you don’t know (but probably you do) we Christians also do not believe in the “Gospel of Barnabas” that some Muslims believe in to support the teaching Judas not Jesus died. So, in addition to different Jesus, we have different book and different message (different gospel).
I can honestly say that I do not subscribe to any of the “false” Jesus beliefs here, or not listed here. There are too many to write down!
I was curious, as I did not understand one thing you said here:
“All who have reopened the cannon, have committed a not forgivable sin against the Holy Spirit.”
I don’t understand what that means. Could you explain this better for me? Do you mean the people who have changed God’s Word by adding to it?
Dear Lyn.
Shalom.
You wrote:
I don’t understand what that means. Could you explain this better for me? Do you mean the people who have changed God’s Word by adding to it?
My reply:
Yes. Since the Holy Spirit has closed the cannon, a re-opening is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. You (the Pope) basically set him self above God, and claiming to be “god”.
I understand. Very well put, brother Ivar. I agree. This is why I subscribe to you and repost much of what you write, because I have found that I agree with what you post. Here is a good one you ‘might’ agree with. It is harsh..but the truth does hurt. http://vineoflife.net/2012/12/11/how-does-the-average-christian-of-today-see-jesus/ Please feel free to share your thoughts. People are preaching the false love message today! They forget that Jesus is God in the flesh..and God HATES sin! They think they can just keep on living in sin and God forgives them without TRUE repentance. It is so sad.
I like you, Ivar, because it is hard to find someone this day who is up front, honest, and tells it like it is. You are bold..and God wants us to be bold. God does not have time right now for a bunch of wishy washy sugar coated “fakes” who are too afraid to stand up for God! Jesus died for us! If we can’t stand up for Him without fear and without shame, then we are cowards! And on that day, He will be ashamed of us! There is NO ROOM for these people who believe being a follower of Jesus is going around happy and joyous..not telling the truth..and hiding from the evil that is corrupting everything! We were made to be warriors…not cowards! We were made to tell the truth..not conceal it with lies!
This is what I like about you so much! You are bold, you are truthful! You are NOT a sugar-coater! You tell it like it is..and you protect and stand up for the Word of God! Bless you, Ivar!
Ivar, Good article. I wrote a piece along similar lines a couple months ago: http://natsab.com/2013/05/06/jesus-false-messiah/
Frankly, most of christendom believes in a false image of Messiah. Abba Yahweh is waking many up in this day. Thanks for being a bold voice!!
Shalom!
Dear Pete Rambo
Shalom.
I read your article, and do not fully agree with you. Be careful, and do not exclude anyone from the Kingdom of Heaven, based on their inability to pronounce the name of the Messiah correctly in the Hebrew language. There is a ‘J” in my alphabet, I pray in the name of Jesus, and He answers me.
A lot of gypsy’s in India pray to Him saying “Yesu Mezi”. I know who they believe in. No risk of them not being heard at the throne in Heaven.
Ivar, I understand what you are saying… You might read more on the blog before assuming I am a ‘name’ guy… Like you, I believe the RCC has had WAY too much influence and has actually warped what the Apostles wrote or what Yeshua/Jesus calls us to.
I was saved in the name of Jesus, but in His timing, it is interesting that He is opening many people’s eyes to deeper things long hidden. What indeed did the church of the book of Acts do? How did Paul worship? Much to ponder as we dig deeper into the matrix.
I appreciate your ministry. Keep exposing the darkness. Keep seeking truth.
Shalom!
Dear Pete Rambo
Shalom.
Thanks for this explanation. I acknowledge that there are copies of the Messiah around. If you call on Him in the name of Jesus or Yeshua, it can still be a copy-cat your are following.
You must be aware that there are “Messianic Jews” in Israel who say “Yeshua” is not God. But the fist creation. They are not acknowledging God of the Bible, but a copycat. Like in Rome, they following a false God, a God of their own imagination.
This is a falsehood first spread by Arius and lead to a 1.800 year old deception called Arianism. Jehova Witnesses believe in the same doctrine.
Shalom.
Oh, Yeshua most certainly is God. In fact, James 4:12 says He is the Lawgiver and the only one able to save… Puts a whole new spin on ‘walking as He walked’ /keeping Torah (1 Jn 2:3-7).
Yes, there are may strange twists of truth in both camps… I know for me, a pastor who had been in the pulpit for 10 years, knowing that deeper understanding was eluding me, the breakthrough came when I prayed simply, “God, I just want truth. I don’t care what it costs, show me TRUTH!”
He said, “Alright, let’s stop looking at the troubles in the world and take a hard look at ‘churchianity.'”
That was the beginning of a challenging and blessed journey to freedom from religious systems of men.
Can’t explain it all in a post… lots to ‘unlearn.’ ;o)
Keep exposing the RCC. That is but one of the problems… Though, maybe the Mother of the rest… BG!
Peace, bro!
His name 1985 years ago would have been Yeshua, we get the name Jesus from a transliteration of Ioesus (Greek) into modern English and He is okay with either Yeshua or Jesus, as language permits.
I read the link that Pete Rambo posted and it reminded me of this.
Act 15:1 And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.
Similar to this is when people say things like, “Except ye say His name a certain way ye cannot be saved.” If it was so important to say the name of Jesus in Hebrew, or pronounce it a certain way, then I feel confident that God would have made this clear a long time ago. The name would certainly be used in the Bible instead of Jesus and we would all be using it. The lack of this happenning, to me, is evidence that God is happy with us calling on the name of Jesus/Yeshua, and knowing Him as Lord and Savior and striving to let the Spirit conform us to the image of His Son.
Acts chapter 15, as well as the rest of the Ne Testament, should clear up this matter for anyone. As long as we are born again and walking in the Spirit the Bible says there is no condemnation.
Like Ivar wrote,
“There is a ‘J” in my alphabet, I pray in the name of Jesus, and He answers me.”
When I called on the name of Jesus, He heard me and saved my soul. There have been, and will be, many other such teestimonies. We didn’t call on a false Messiah or pray to a false Messiah. If we had we wouldn’t have been heard and born again. That, in and of itself, should put this to rest.
Dave, maybe you missed Acts 15:20-21. James (agreed on by both Peter and Paul) decreed that the new Gentile believers would 1. Learn Moses (Torah), 2. in the synagogue, 3. on the Sabbath. (Many details on my blog or a thousand other places on the web…)
Yahweh did say it a long time ago… See Exodus 3:15 in the Hebrew. Or http://natsab.com/2013/01/23/rt-names/ for a deeper look.
It is important… I don’t think we need to get hung up on particular pronunciation, but certainly, if His name is YHVH (Jehovah, Yahveh, Yahweh… ect) then if we love Him we’ll dig in and learn the basics of what His Word really says.
As far as the whole ‘J’ thing… you can call Him anything you want, but what did His momma call Him? That’s probably what you \should be thinking about.
I’ve traveled five continents and been called a lot of things that I answered to, but I KNOW what my given name is and those who are my closest friends at least try to pronounce my given name… not a nickname.
Shalom.
Pete Rambo
Shalom, and love in Jesus.
I acknowledge Him as “I am who I am”. Just like Moses was told by Him. God, THE ALMIGHTY. Even the Hebrews have many names for this God. Elohim, El Shadai, HaShem, Yahweh. I acknowledge Him as God my Father.
I acknowledge the Son, equally God, begotten, omni science, omni present and omni potent. He knows everything, can be everywhere all the time, and He can do whatever He desire to do, inline with the Word of God. The Son has been replaced on Earth by God the Holy Spirit, who reign in my heart. Together, The Father, Son and Holy Spirit, will accomplish the Word of God from A to Z. From the first letter of Genesis, to the last letter of the Book of Revelation. God is the eternal ruler, a rule not fully understandable for a human mind, but must be accepted by all by faith.
What translation are you reading?
My primary is NASB95, though I’ll consult lots of translations. BlueLetterBible website or app is a great tool.
To Pete Rambo, What translation are you reading?
Dear Dave 1543.
Shalom, and love in Jesus.
Thanks for this comment.
I always say that people must be sure, that they are serving in a fellowship who honor the Trinity. God is Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Equally God, three in One.
And: Be sure the leadership confirms that the Biblical cannon is closed, and the Bible alone, the highest authority in all matters of faith.
Here are come major cults to avoid.
1. Rome: They say God has a mother, to be honored as a part of the trinity. The Bible equal to traditions.
2. Mormons: The Bible is not closed. The book of Mormons is the highest authority in matters regards to faith.
3. Word of Faith Movement: Your faith is the highest authority in matters of faith. What the “spirit says to you”, do it.
4. Jehova Witness: (and Islam). Jesus is not God, but a created being.
5. Jesus only: Jesus in God, but also the Father and the Holy Spirit. One God, not three in One. Rejecting the trinity.
I hope this was useful.
Ivar, Agreed with #5, though not as sure as I used to be that the Trinitarian doctrine of the Council of Nicea is as cut and dried as it would seem.
Recall, that is the same council, under the eye of Constantine and the Bishop of Rome that established the direction and foundation for the RCC…
Certainly, the Shema, Deut. 6:4ff says, “Yahweh is one (echad)”… But how exactly that works is more mystery that we know…
Echad=’united one’ as in Gen 2:24 ‘the two shall become one flesh’
Not, ‘Yachid’ which is ‘one and only’ like Isaac, the ‘one and only son’ in Genesis 22:2
I guess my point is that Yeshua has a MUCH larger role in the OT/Tanakh than christian tradition teaches… i.e.: Who was the Lawgiver at Mt Sinai? (James 4:12) Who was Israel betrothed to? God can’t violate His own Word/Laws… His Son can’t marry Israel if they were originally betrothed to the Father… Further, the Son can’t die and release Israel from the original covenant if the covenant was with the Father…
Kinda throws a wrench in the traditional understanding…
Hope your head doesn’t explode… 😉 Much to ponder and sort out in those couple paragraphs…
Shalom!
Dear Pete Rambo
Shalom.
You wrote:
I guess my point is that Yeshua has a MUCH larger role in the OT/Tanakh than christian tradition teaches…
My reply:
The Son is equally the lawgiver as the Father. The Son was with the Hebrews out of Egypt, saving them by taking them across the Red Sea.
Jesus did not come in the flesh, to start a new Religion. He came to fulfill all the promises given in the Law, the Palms and the the Prophetic Word.
The major spiritual base of false Christianity, is Roman Catholicism. The idea that “Jesus” is a rebel, who have changed the “father”, changed the laws, changed the time for appointed feasts, and do longer stand with the promises to the Jewish people. This kind of religion is a falsehood, invented in the deepest pits for the abyss.
Father, Son and Holy Spirit has always been in agreement, and always will. They have never disagreed, not even for a split second. They gained their final victory over Satan on the cross, the Son redeeming all who are willing to accept this. The Son gave us victory, by His own blood. Defeating sin and death. We are called to walk in the power of His Resurrection, a gift from Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
Amein!
The doctrine of the Trinity, as originated by Constantine and the RCC is very confusing to most people and I believe incorrect, apostate and heretical, and therefore I reject that doctrine and tend to agree along the lines you see it in #5. I have read strong arguments and evidence that Matthew 28:19 is spurious and should read, “Go and make disciples in all the nations, baptizing them in My name.” Jesus/ Yeshua was God in the flesh but not God the Father nor His Spirit. The Hebrew word “echad” has also been defined as a “compound unity”. Just voicing some of my understanding on the topic at hand. Blessings to all!
Kalev Efrayim
Shalom, and love in Jesus.
You wrote:
I have read strong arguments and evidence that Matthew 28:19 is spurious and should read, “Go and make disciples in all the nations, baptizing them in My name.” Jesus/ Yeshua was God in the flesh but not God the Father nor His Spirit.
My reply:
Jesus is not God the Father, nor is He God the Holy Spirit. The Messiah is the Son of God. He is God. God is One, always in agreement. Jesus said: “The father and I are One”.
Since God took on flesh, the Messiah is uniq. He is both a man and God in one person.
To question the authentity of the Bible, is dangerous. If you feel the Word is not inspired by God and kept safe by Him, you will surely go astry into all kind of erronious teachings.
A Christian will baptize people in the namne of the Father, Son and Holy spiirt. Not into the “trinity” of the Pope.
What the Pope has done, is to copy the truth. He has given Father, Son and Holy Spirit a new age meaning.
The Holy father is the Pope.
The replacement of the Son is the Pope, the Vicar of Christ.
The Holy Spirit is the Pope, the infallible.
Father, Son and Holy Spirit is the Pope. A “god man” in the Vatican. Only the Pope and his priests can create “Christ”, and serve him to you in the Eucharist. The wafer “Christ” is than locked back into the Tabernacle, and remains inside the Catholic shrine till the priest again open the door.
Interesting comments by Pete concerning the trinity doctrine and where it originated.
Take a look at Pauls letters, he greets in the name of the Father and the Son.
James opens with the line
James a servant of God and the Lord Jesus Christ.
The Holy Spirit is not mentioned as a personage of God or the Lord Jesus, however the Apostles were empowered by the Spirit when doing the Lords work.
God teaches us how He works in Zechariah
Not by might, nor by power, but by My Spirit says the Lord.
The Holy Spirit is His power at work, He doesn’t come in person, but He does His work in Spirit.
The Angel who came to Mary was empowered by the Holy Spirit to deliver a message, without the Spirit the Angel could not deliver.
There are those who claim the Spirit is in them or at work in their church or fellowship, but the Bible teaches us to be wary of such people as no-one really knows where it comes from or where it goes, only God who directs it.
There is the Father and the Son and it was the Son who quoted ‘the spirit of the Lord is upon me’.
Because He was called ‘God with us’ I would believe that He would know that the Spirit of the Lord was upon Him, but others who make such a claim I would be wary of.
Make the God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob watch over those who seek the truth, in the name of His beloved Son – Amen
Very well.
I would like to add one more point to your comment.
If Spirit is some kind of person, than we have a person inside of us too.
God created man in his image, didn’t he. So than, does it mean there is some other entity inside of me? Ridiculous!
But if I consider spirit to be my mind, will, intelligence or simply me, than I start to understand who my God is. My spirit can love, hate, create or destroy but still and only in 3 dimensional world I was put in.
If God’s spirit can move gently on the face of the waters, that to me doesn’t mean a person was above the water. That to me, means God Is God. He can do real things with His spirit. My spirit can only do what my body can, but God’s spirit is limitless.
Trinity is demonic teaching.
Egyptians worshiped hundreds of demons. Some of them had 3 or even 9 persons in one. No wonder God made Jews to go out of Egypt.
I believe Ptet is reading a false translation, it is what the RCC has done to counter the reformers through the SOJ.
Few thoughts on trinity, as my reaction to post regarding trinitarian formula in Matthew 28:19.
Verse which is used to support the trinity – Mat_28:19-20. is fraudulent. Catholic encyclopedia vol.2 pg 263 admits this verse was changed by them, from Jesus Christ to trinity formula.
Do simple search on “Catholic encyclopedia vol.2 pg 263”.
To read another fine handy work of “almighty” RKC, read 1 John 5:7-8 and do simple search on “Comma Johanneum”.
To question the authenticity of the bible is not dangerous if one sicks the truth, and considers there is evil organization like RKC. One ought to question many things. Trinity is definitely one of them.
I could write very long list of biblical arguments against it.
Issue of trinity has created too much confusion and caused even deaths of many who refused it. That bothers me. Actually it looks as devil’s device to take attention from The Son of God. True Son, not son only by a title or some decree, but real Son of God, begotten long time before us and this universe existed.
God the Father is the God of the ORDER, not a god of CONFUSION. He created two of us first. Not three. Eve was created from Adam’s rib. Why? Those two later became one, symbolically. Didn’t they? Creator had to have the reason for all that, and it wasn’t only reproduction. He didn’t go blindly along. He could have created 1000s of us if needed.
Here’s the reason why he created us the way he did: 1 Cor. 11:3,10
This is very deep thought, and trinity with its confusing concept, doesn’t fit in at all.
Trinity concept is in no way simple to comprehend.
I love God the Father and his begotten Son. The Son is the God by inheritance. Both of them are Gods of order There’s SIMPLICITY in Christ. There’s no simplicity in trinity. 2 Cor 11:3-4
Dear pdvor2
Shalom, and love in Jesus.
To understand the character and nature of God is important. To be able to explain the word “trinity” is not important. It is a word that is not found in the Bible. Let the explantion of not Biblical words be a matter for the professors of theology.
There is a moment in time, whent he Father, the Son and the Spirit is appearing simultaniously. When the Son if baptized, the Father speaks from heaven. They could possibly not be the same person. And the Spirit manifests in flesh as a dove, resting on the shoulder of the Son. The Son and the Spirit are not the same person. Still they are One.
When the Father and the Son come to live in my heart, I do not have two physical persons inside my heart. My body have become the temple of the Holy Spirit. The Father and the Son sit at their thrones in heaven. When the spirit reign in my heart, I am connected. As God, God the Holy Spirit has replaced Jesus on the Earth. The spirit is not independent. The Father, Son and Holy Spirit do not fight, disagree or separate. The oneness of God is beyond what a human mind can comprehend. Likewise none of us are able to fully explain eternity.
We have to accept by faith that this is the truth. Simply because it is the Word of God. To try to visualize this within the framework of a human mind, is impossble. Regardless of how you try to put other words to it, than what is written in the Bible.
I love the way you greet people coming to your forum: “Shalom, and love in Jesus. ” It is very lovely. Thank you.
I’m not a professor, but perhaps we both know the difference between two terms, nature and character of a person.
Character of our creator we can learn from his scripture and creation. But his nature non of us can. It is simply out of our reach. As you’ve said, we have no knowledge of things beyond our matter, space and time, which God have created. Yes, even time was created by him. Astonishing fact which many do not realize.
I have no idea how Spirit of god could descent on Jesus in the form of a dove. It still doesn’t necessarily means the Spirit was/is a person.
I have no problem acknowledging the Spirit of God, but I do have a problem with acknowledging God the Spirit. There’s the difference. There’s not one mention of such a God in the Bible. Always spirit OF God.
Maybe there’s mention of Another Comforter from John 14:16-17 which could make one think of a third person, but when one reads carefully this chapter further, it clearly explains, the comforter was no other but Jesus himself. John 14:18,28 Besides, Jesus spoke about himself in 3rd person many times. Mat 13:41, Mat 16:27-28, John 9:35-37, Mat 13:37 etc. etc..
The fact is, trinity has its logic. As a result, one who believes in it reads bible with preconceived conceptions. In honest search of truth, the one rule must stay still the same – the Bible must not contradict its self. Well, with trinity there’s too much contradiction.
But I fully agree with your wonderful statement from before: “Since God took on flesh, the Messiah is unique. He is both a man and God in one person.”
What a blessing for humanity. Jesus, the only begotten son of God who not only tried our way, but who gave himself for our better. He is God who’s spirit comes directly from his Father, almighty God of us all.
Dear pdvor2
Shalom and love in Jesus.
John 4:24
“God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.” (NIV).
John 4:24
God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.” (New King James).
John 4:24
God is a Spirit (a spiritual Being) and those who worship Him must worship Him in spirit and in truth (reality). (Amplifid Bible)
The Bible do not say that God has a spirit, whom He sends here and there. God is (a) spirit. Still Jesus talks about His Father, making God a person, who is not Him self. Jesus walking on the Earth is not a spirit, but a physical person. Therefore the Father says: “This is my Son”.
A child (physical being) was promised, who would be called Mighty God. The Messiah is uniq. There is no one equal to Him. No one above Him.
Your comments parallel much of what I have learned over the past 10 years, especially as it concerns the doctrine of the Trinity and also accuracy of the Scriptures we have today. I believe if we endeavored to return to the simplicity of the Gospel we would grow that much closer to God the Father, through God the Son by the promised indwelling of the Spirit of God, by faith.
Much respect to you and your writing. You are well versed. Please visit my page and follow for my current and upcoming theological posts! Would be nice to get your opinion on some of my ideas. God bless!
Shiva spoke from pillar of fire. Sons of Diti and Danu were cast out of heaven. Decode hindu mythology blog for the old age version of your creation tale with time dilation.
Abraham Sarah Brahma Saraswati