Poor English translations mixes up Abyss and Hell

Jesus did not speak English. Neither did Moses. During translation of Bible verses into English, the translators have struggled to explain words like Lord, love and Hell.

The Abyss is just above the lake of fire. None of them is a place I would like you to spend the enternity
The Abyss is just above the lake of fire. None of them is a place I would like you to spend the enternity

If I tell you, that I love you, you might misunderstand?

You can misunderstand, even if you are a Bible faithful Christian.

How can an expression of love be misunderstood?

Because love takes many forms. If I said: «I want to make love with you», I would in Greek basically have used the word «Eros». If you were able to love me without setting up any conditions, you would use the word «agapè».

In English love is love, and often to be misunderstood.

Jesus told the human race: «Agapè». He died for our sins, before we were able to meet any pre-conditions.

Another word in English that has created confusion within Biblical Christianity, is the word «Hell». Hell is the lake of Fire. the Hebrew word for hell is Ghenna. But there are other Hebrew and even Greek Words that explains about other places were the love of God is not present. We have the word «Sheol», who basically mean «the grave».

Another place is «Tartaros». This is the greek word for Abyss. That is the Kingdom of Darkness, from were Satan operates. He will have this as his «office» and residence till the day He will be casted into Hell, the lake of fire. The dark angels that troubles us comes up and out of the abyss. They are not in Hell, the lake of fire. Not yet.

There are separate understanding of these five different areas of God`s creation:
Heaven
Earth
Sheol (grave)
Tartaros (Abyss)
Ghennna (hell).

If we mix them up, we might end up in errors like the whole foundation of the Word of Faith Movement, which is highly influencing the Charismatic Churches globally.

Wicked and un saved souls will be tournmented in the lake of fire forever.
Wicked and not saved souls will be tornmented in the lake of fire forever.

An error of mixing the Abyss and Hell, has so fare not been corrected in major English Bible translations as King James and New International version.

2 Peter 2:4
For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell, putting them into gloomy dungeons to be held for judgment.

To find the true meaning, in the NIV translation, we much to often also have to read the foot notes:

2 Peter 2:4 Greek Tartarus. Some manuscripts «into chains of darkness».

End of foot notes.

The NIV foot notes also includes the King James versions understanding of this word:

2. Peter 2:4 (King James).
For God did not spare the angels who sinned; on the contrary, he put them in gloomy dungeons lower than Sh’ol to be held for judgment.

The dark angels are not yet chained in Hell. They are chained in darkness, operating out of the Abyss. The Abyss is just above the lake of fire, and the book of Revelation explains to us that smoke and demons come out from this god forsaken place.

The dark angles are chained in darkness, because they have already been judged for their rebellion in Heaven. The light of the World Jesus of Nazareth will come for a second time, and throw them into the lake of fire during the final judgment.

The Abyss is not Hell, but the Kingdom of darkness, a present Kingdom. were also the pagan god «Hades» reigns. Like all other pagan gods, Hades is a tool and an expression of the will of Satan. Satan`s will is to keep people away from the truth and salvation in the Jewish Messiah Jesus of Nazareth.

One of the Bible version who expresses this fully correct, is the Darby translation:

2 Peter 2:4 (Darby Translation)

For if God spared not angels who had sinned, but having cast them down to the deepest pit of gloom has delivered them to chains of darkness [to be] kept for judgment.

Wikipedia confirms this message, and that Darby understood the original difference between Tartaros and Ghenna, and have been able to express the difference in English.

From Wikipedia:

«In classic mythology, below Heaven, Earth, and Pontus is Tartarus, or Tartaros (Greek Τάρταρος, deep place). It is a deep, gloomy place, a pit, or an abyss used as a dungeon of torment and suffering that resides beneath the underworld. In the Gorgias, Plato (c. 400 BC) wrote that souls were judged after death and those who received punishment were sent to Tartarus. As a place of punishment, it can be considered a hell. The classic Hades, on the other hand, is more similar to Old Testament Sheol».

What about the Word «Lord».

200 year ago, in England the word «Lord» was meaningful. Today it is almost meaningless.

The word Master will be much more useful today. Because we all have a Master. If we sin, we have made sin our Master. The opposite of a Master is a slave. If you have made sin your master, you will be a slave of sin.

When you make Jesus your Master, you are still a slave. But no longer to sin, but a slave of his righteousness. When you know that your Master has the Power to throw both your body and soul into Hell, you will fear Him.

One of the main problem within «Christianity» today, is that there are very few people who fear God, and have made Jesus their Master. 200 years ago, we would have called Christians: «Set free from all Lords on this earth, but new slaves under the Lordship of Jesus».

Read more about the Word of Faith Movements and many Charismatic pastors faulty view on Jesus and Hell. Click here

53 thoughts on “Poor English translations mixes up Abyss and Hell

  1. Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
    Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted.
    Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.
    Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.
    Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.
    Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.
    Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.
    Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness’ sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
    Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.

  2. dear Ivar,

    There is still more to say;
    Like Jesus never said nothing anywhere about a place in kosmos were satan is having a neverending barbeque.
    Jezus allways refered to The valley of Hinnom (Gehenna) as the place where people will loose theire lives. It is a Jersulam valley where you can have a nice walk or a picnic. In the next eon, the Kingdom come, it will be a place to burn corpses of the offenders of the law, because the eon of grace has come to an end by then.
    So we all can go to ‘hell’ indeed and have a nice cup of tea over there, alive!

    1. Polleke,

      Are you saying that there isn’t an actually mentioned in the bible? I apologize if I misunderstood, but I wanted to clarify.

      Matthew 10:28 And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell.

      And for those that accept Jesus Christ as their Savior.

      John 14:1-3 Let not your hearts be troubled. Believe in God; believe also in me. In my Father’s house are many rooms. If it were not so, would I have told you that I go to prepare a place for you? And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and will take you to myself, that where I am you may be also.

    2. Dear Polleke

      Shalom.

      Isaiah 33:14
      The sinners in Zion are terrified; trembling grips the godless: “Who of us can dwell with the consuming fire? Who of us can dwell with everlasting burning?”

      Matthew 25:41
      “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.

      (end of scriptures)

      Do you really think the devil and all evil spirits will have to spend the eternity in a valley just outside Jerusalem?

      Or was Jesus using the fire of garbage in Gehenna as an example of a place in the Spiritual realm, that is going to be very hot, godforsaken and eternal?

      If the devil will spend eternity just outside Jerusalem, I guess the Kingdom of Heaven will be somewhere closer to Tel Aviv….

  3. Dear Gloria and Ivar,

    Look at the original scriptures. Jesus NEVER mentions ‘hell’ but ‘Gehenna’, which is Greek for the Hebrew equivalent and geographical place ‘ga Ben-Hinnom’ or the Valley of Hinnom in English.

    Another thing: ‘aionic’ or ‘for the eon’ is NOT eternal but for the next EON(s).
    There are still two eons to come: the eon in which Israel will be the Kingdom as promised and the eon of the new heavens and new earth.

    Take a look at these two verses

    Revelation11:15
    And the seventh angel sounded; and there followed great voices in heaven, and they said, The kingdom of the world is become [the kingdom] of out Lord, and of his Christ: and he shall reign FOR EVER AND EVER.

    1 Corinthian 15:24 and 25
    Then [cometh] the end, when he DELIVER UP the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have abolished all rule and all authority and power.
    For he must reign, TILL he hath put all his enemies under his feet.

    Conclusion: aionic IS NOT for ever and ever,
    it is for the eon(s)!

    http://www.saviourofall.org/Tracts/Eons2.html

    speaking about ‘poor’ translations.

    may God bless you with the wisdom of His beautifull mystery and vast decision unveiled by Paul the apostle (Ephesians1:8-10)

    1. Dear Polleke

      Isaiah 26:4
      Trust in the LORD forever, for the LORD, the LORD himself, is the Rock eternal.

      God is eternal. The Earth is not eternal. The Jehovah’s Witnesses (JW) believes that the coming perfect Earth is the Heavens. They reject eternal life in a spiritual realm, in the Kingdom of God.

      Are you a Jehovah’s Witnesses?

  4. Dear Ivar,

    Of course is God eternal (olam). That is not my point.

    The funny thing is that you use poor translations yourself and defend them with the verses that has nothing to do with the message I stated.

    Did you realy study the verses I pointed at??

    1. Polleke,

      Simply put do you believe that Jesus Christ died for your sins, and resurrected? Do you accept his sacrifice, and do you repent from your sins?

      Jesus said in John 8:24: I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am [the one I claim to be], you will indeed die in your sins.”

      Do you believe that is the words of Jesus Christ?

    2. Dear Polleke.

      Shalom.

      You wrote:

      Of course is God eternal (olam). That is not my point.

      My reply:

      You did not take my point either. That both the Kingdom of Heaven and Hell is olam. The Earth is not the final destination for anyone.

  5. By the way, I am NOT a jehova’s witness (that would not excuse you from doing your homework by the way) but I believe the following:

    “For to this end we labor and strive, because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Saviour of ALL MEN, specially of them that believe. These things command and teach!”
    1Timothy4:8-11

    1. Polleke,
      Are you a Universalist? Yes, Jesus is the Savior of all men, especially of those who believe (see 1 Timothy 4:10). This scripture shows there is no bases for Calvinism (Calvinism teaches Jesus only died for some, not all). The scripture you quote does not support Universalism (Universalism is the belief that all will be saved).
      Jesus died for all men, but men still have to call on the name of the Lord. See Romans 10:13.

      1. Polleke,
        The Bible tells us that all will not repent.
        See Revelation 2:21 I have given her time to repent of her immorality, but she is unwilling.
        See Revelation 9:20 The rest of mankind that were not killed by these plagues still did not repent of the work of their hands; they did not stop worshiping demons, and idols of gold, silver, bronze, stone and wood–idols that cannot see or hear or walk.
        Also see Revelation 16:9 They were seared by the intense heat and they cursed the name of God, who had control over these plagues, but they refused to repent and glorify him.
        And see Revelation 16:11 and cursed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, but they refused to repent of what they had done.

      2. Dear Victoria.

        Shalom, and welcome back. Thanks for ministering to Polleke. Surly, not all man will be saved.

        Matthew 7:14
        But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

  6. “Surly, not all man will be saved.”

    Read this:

    So then as through one trespass, all men were condemned; even so through one act of righteousness, all men were justified to life. (Romans5:18)

    For all the fullness was pleased to dwell in HIM; and through HIM to reconcile ALL THINGS to himself, by him, whether things on the EARTH, or things in the HEAVENS, having made peace through the blood of his cross. (Col1:20)

    Therefore God also highly exalted him, and gave to him the name which is above every name; that at the name of Jesus EVERY knee should bow, of those in heaven, those on earth, and those under the earth, and that EVERY tongue should CONFESS (ex-omologeo) that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the GLORY of God the Father. (Philipians 2:9-11)

    “Which of you men, if you had one hundred sheep, and lost one of them, wouldn’t leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one that was lost, UNTIL he found it?” (luke15)

    ‘making known unto us the mystery of his WILL, ACCORDING to his GOOD pleasure which he PURPOSED in him unto a dispensation of the fulness of the times, to sum up ALL THINGS in Christ, the things in the HEAVENS, and the things upon the EARTH;'(ephesians 1)

    ‘When ALL THINGS have been subjected to him, then the Son will also himself be subjected to him who subjected all things to him, that God may be ALL in ALL.'(1Corinth15:28)

    1. Polleke,

      You like to twist the bible to suit your need, if you think all will be saved. That is wrong.

      The Holy Word of God says:

      Matthew 7

      21“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ 23Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

      Matthew 7

      13“Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

      Notice how Christ warns us several times, that many who “think” they are doing things in His name are not, and are only serving themselves.

      Be careful you do not base your salvation on “all” will go to heaven. Because you are completely wrong.

      Ephesians 2:8

      For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith–and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God

    2. Polleke

      Shalom.

      It is possible to take any Bible verse out of context, mix it with a few other verses, and make a doctrine.

      The letter to the Romans must be read as a letter, with a message from A to Z. And than you will clearly see, that salvation is conditional. You need to believe in Him. Without faith, its impossible to please God.

      Romans 8: 9-10.
      Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God’s wrath through him! For if, while we were God’s enemies, we were reconciled to him through the death of his Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved through his life!

      (end of scriptures)

      Paul writes ” WE”. That is the Church, all who believe. Paul does not write ‘ALL”. Those who are ashamed of Jesus before men, Jesus will not save when He returns. That is a promise.

      Mark 8:38
      If anyone is ashamed of me and my words in this adulterous and sinful generation, the Son of Man will be ashamed of them when he comes in his Father’s glory with the holy angels.”

    3. Polleke,
      You like to give scriptures about Jesus saving people, good, but then you ignore the scriptures that say not all will repent.
      Here are those scriptures again:

      See Revelation 9:20 The rest of mankind that were not killed by these plagues still did not repent of the work of their hands; they did not stop worshiping demons, and idols of gold, silver, bronze, stone and wood–idols that cannot see or hear or walk.
      Also see Revelation 16:9 They were seared by the intense heat and they cursed the name of God, who had control over these plagues, but they refused to repent and glorify him.
      And see Revelation 16:11 and cursed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, but they refused to repent of what they had done.

  7. So you guys are saying: ‘Yeah right, God WANTS that, but He will not succeed’.

    “For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior; who DESIRES ALL PEOPLE to be saved and come to FULL knowledge of the truth.” (1Tim2:3-4)

    “But our God is in the heavens.
    He DOES WHATEVER HE PLEASES.” (psalm115:3)

    Still not convinced of Gods neverending unprecedented and unconditional LOVE?

    Small beleivers! But one day everybody will praise HIM as the Almighty. EVEYONE!

    1. Polleke,

      Do NOT put words in anyone’s mouth. No one said “yeah right, God wants that, but he will not succeed.” NO ONE SAID THAT IN THE ABOVE POSTS.

      You however, refuse to answer the questions I have posted. If you are not a Jehovah witness what are you then?

      Simply put do you believe that Jesus Christ died for your sins, and resurrected? Do you accept his sacrifice, and do you repent from your sins?

      Jesus said in John 8:24: I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am [the one I claim to be], you will indeed die in your sins.”

      Do you believe that is the words of Jesus Christ?

      You call us small believers, yet you refuse to answer questions.

      I know I’m saved, and will see Christ for I do believe Jesus Christ is HE (though I am not worthy), AND I’ve accepted his salvation, and repented from my sins.

  8. ‘Simply put do you believe that Jesus Christ died for your sins, and resurrected? Do you accept his sacrifice, and do you repent from your sins?’

    dear Gloria,
    Are you a Pharisee? You are leaning on your own works. Not that of Christ. Because you believe YOU have to do something. But that is not grace, that is WORK!
    Even faith is a gift from God. Not something you can put in yourself. You people think you can make yourself ‘right’ by saying ‘yes’ to Jesus.
    But Christ said YES to the WHOLE WORLD 2000 years ago!
    Not everybody believes so, I agree. But they will sometime, at the end of the eons: ‘Every knee will bow, and every tongue will confess!

    I am NOT a Jehova witness (second time I have to state that) but a human being that REALLY believes what God is saying in His word:

    -That he will reconcile EVERYTHING ON EARTH AND IN THE HEAVENS (Col1:20) to Him by Jesus Christ
    -That He is the Saviour of ALL, especially for believers. (1Tim4:10)

    You have no clue about the times (the eons) that are gonna come.

    Stick every label on me you like to do to make this BIBLICAL FACT untrue. Just be aware of the consequences!
    Selfrighteous religious people who try to demean the work of Jesus and its universal impact are the true enemies of the cross, not the atheïsts, not the muslims. Because they should know better!

    1. Polleske,

      Now I know that you like to play with words. Where did I give in any of statements any indication that I was leaning on works? Without Christ, I am nothing. Absolutely nothing. I am a born again Christian saved by the Blood of Jesus Christ. I am not worthy to be saved, but he loved me that much, that he did it for me and you.

      The Every Knee will bow and confess to God, is both for nonbeliever and believer alike. And not everyone will go to Heaven.

      You can call me whatever name you’d like. But the truth is the truth. Not all will see the Glory of God’s Kingdom.

      The Sheep and the Goats

      31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.

      34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’

      37 “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’

      40 “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’

      41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’

      44 “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’

      45 “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’

      46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

    2. Polleke,
      You deny being a Jehovah Witness, but you didn’t deny being a Universalist. Not all will be saved, you have been shown many scriptures telling you this.

      You accused Gloria of being a Pharisee, why would you do that? Pharisees didn’t believe in Jesus and they worshiped God in vain with man-made commands. Are you calling repenting a man-made command?

      Are you calling it works to believe in Jesus? Are you calling it works to repent? Those are things we have to do. You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that–and shudder James 2:19.

  9. Dear Victoria,Gloria and Ivar

    Why should I deny Gods words? I then would deny His Almight, His Souvereignty, wouldn’t I?

    And sure you are leaning on your works, defintely:

    YOU have to beleive
    YOU have to accept the gift of grace
    YOU have to say ‘yes’ to Jesus

    Instead of:
    God who loves the world (and does not hate communists, muslims and catholics like you do)John3:16
    God who WILL reconcile all to Him in Christ (Col1:20)
    God who IS the Saviuor of ALL (1Tim4:10)
    God who RESTORES all people to HIM, instead of annihilating or destroying
    God whose will is INLIMITED
    God whose compassion is UNLIMITED
    God depends on HIS faith and NOT mine
    God whose MERCY is UNLIMITED
    God whose GRACE is UNLIMITED

    Because God is GOOD and His love endures For EVER.

    But you are making Him small and even sinfull because you say God can not achieve what He desperately wants:
    “who desires all people to be saved and come to full knowledge of the truth.” (1Tim2:4)
    That is GOAL-missing, and therefore sinning.

    Just because you mistake ‘eonian life’ for ‘eternal life’.

    That is a more than just a ‘pitty’, because you subject the power of Christ to HUMAN (so called ‘free’) will and actions.
    You are making the cross POWERLESS, holding a form of godliness (2tim3:5)
    We are nothing but clay in the hands of the Potter. But nowadays clay have become very arrogant and think it can resist the Potters Hand and shout at the cups that they think are more dirty or flawed than themselves.

    1. Polleke,

      No one said you had to believe. No one is making you believe the truth. The bible is pretty staight forward. Either you believe Jesus Christ died for your sins or you don’t. Heaven or hell. Straight forward like I said.

      You twist the scripture to suit your own needs, and in doing so you are playing with fire.

      Nowhere in the Word of God does it say everyone is saved and everyone will be going to heaven. You are blind to the truth, and now I’m beginning to think Victoria is right. You are a Universalist.

      Matthew 3:2 and saying, “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is near.”

    2. Dear Polleke

      Shalom.

      You wrote:

      Instead of:
      God who loves the world (and does not hate communists, muslims and catholics like you do)John3:16

      My reply:

      God love Chinese, but hates Communism. So people have to chose.

      God loves Arabs, but hates Islam. So the “Muslims” have to chose.

      God so loved all sinners, that He sent His only begotten Son, so that all who believe…Turn away from sins, and obey Him, shall not perish, but have eternal life.

      The ABC about true Christianity

      1. So Who decides wether you are a beleiver or not?

        “Or hasn’t the potter a right over the clay, from the same lump to make one part a vessel for honor, and another for dishonor?”
        Romans 9:21

        God does not make vessels for dishonor to get rid of them forever. Why did He create them in the first place then?
        He sets them apart for his wrath because :

        “Yahweh has made EVERYTHING for its OWN end—
        Yes, even the wicked for the day of evil.”(Proverbs 16:4)

        “to make his power known”(Romans 9:22)

        Because one day:
        Every knee will bow and every tongue will confess that Jesus is Lord to the glory of God the Father

        Romans 9:14-16
        “What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? May it never be! For he said to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” So then it is NOT of him who wills, NOR of him who runs, but of GOD!! who has MERCY!!!.

        “For his anger is but for a moment;
        His favor is for a lifetime.”Psalm 30;5

    3. Polleke,

      You said:
      “And sure you are leaning on your works, defintely:
      YOU have to beleive
      YOU have to accept the gift of grace
      YOU have to say ‘yes’ to Jesus”

      My Comment:
      If you say believing is a work—then it is the work of God, work that He requires!

      John 6:9 Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.”

  10. ‘No one is making you believe the truth.”

    I BEG YOUR PARDON????

    “for by GRACE you have been saved THROUGH FAITH, and that NOT OF YOURSELVES; it is the GIFT of GOD, not of works, that no one would BOAST.”(Ephesians 2)

    All you do is boasting that it is the man who chooses, the man that desides.
    HORRIFIC and really a demeaning of God who:
    “CHOSE us in him BEFORE the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and without blemish before him in love; having PREDESTINED us for adoption as children through Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his desire.” (Ephesians 1:4,5)

    “But OF HIM(!), you are in Christ Jesus, who was made to us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption:He who boasts, let him boast in the Lord.” (1Co1:31)

    You are making the gospel a ‘do-it-yourself-work’, depriving the glory of the Lord.
    Its 100% God otherwise grace would not be grace, but ‘love under certain conditions’. Is that the true good news? That everything depends on us?
    Maybe your earthly father taught you condtional love, your Heavenly Father is NOT!

    1. So let me ask you this: What do you think the sheep and goat parable means?

      What do you think Christ means when he says in Matthew 25:

      41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.

      No twisting the words. What do you think Christ means?

  11. Dear Gloria,

    This is an earthly trial and has nothing to do with heaven or ‘hel’.

    Compare Matthew 25 with Joel 3

    Hurry, all you nations!
    Come quickly.
    Ask the Lord to bring
    his warriors along.
    You must come now
    to Judgment Valley,
    where the Lord will judge
    the surrounding nations.

    This is about eonian (NOT eternal!) life or eonian death, in the eon to come.

    Nothing with the final destination of a creature.
    Because God will be all in ALL after the last enemie (DEATH)will be destroyed (1Cor15:28)

    1. Polleke,

      You need to read the Word of Christ and wake up. For our time on earth is very short, and those who do not believe in Christ’s word is in danger of losing their soul.

      Matthew 25 41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.

      Verse 41 specifically states: Depart from me, you who are cursed into the eternal fire prepared for the devil, and his angels.

      To say that this is not what he meant, and then twist it to your own meaning, is to deny his word.

  12. Dear Gloria,
    Suppose your soul would be lost. Who would be the Looser?
    God of course, because He satan then is stronger than Jesus work on the cross. And we are talking about billions of ‘lost’ souls, who havent said ‘yes’ to Jesus yet.
    Just imagine what a false gospel you believe in!

    God is the Saviour of ALL, especially those of the believers.

    With a bit knowlegde of logical thinking there is only ONE conclusion:
    God is really GOOD and does not condone satan in treating ‘lost souls’ on a cosmic barbeque. Is that what a Father would do? Do you really BELIEVE THAT???
    That is a demonic teaching!
    Paul is warning for that kind of teaching (1Tim4)

    1. Dear Polleke

      Shalom.

      You are a Universal humanist, not a Christian. The Gospel is an offense to humanists, because you wish the truth was that all men will be saved. But Jesus said something else, unfortunately for you and others is your camp.

      You wrote:

      God is the Saviour of ALL, especially those of the believers.

      My reply:

      True. Jesus died for the sins of ALL. But fare from all will receive this free gift of salvation. When Jesus speaks about the children of the devil, you are very much included. Because you believe in the lies of the devil, that there will be no eternal camp in Hell for Satan, and all who rejects the gospel of salvation by faith alone, in Jesus alone, separated from works.

      1. Well said Ivar.

        To Polleke: If you do not start taking Christ at his word because it is the truth, you will be lost.

        1 Timothy 4:1 says: The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons.

        Repent and do not follow under this catagory.

  13. So Ivar en Gloria,

    According your faith is God a Father who creates people who He can not controll, and the ones that will not say ‘yes’ to Jesus (although they are all natural born enemies of Him, Romans5:10) He wil treat those billions a cosmic barbeque to please satan.
    And that is a ALMIGHTY, GOOD and LOVING Father????
    We have fathers here in Europe that lock their children up in cellars and abuse them sexually. It are mainly christians that then say that these fathers are possesed by satan. BUT YOU PICTURE GOD EVEN WORSE!!!

    I’m feeling sick, really.

    What do you do with Luke 15? The Sheperd that will search for that one lost sheep until He finds it??
    Not true??

    You are following the earthly Jesus who spoke directly to the lost sheep of Israel for which He came solely!
    Jesus never used the word ‘hell’ but Gehenna, which is the Greek equivalent for ‘ga ben-Hinnom’, the Valley of Hinnom. It’s a valley near Jerusalem.
    He never used the word ‘eternal’ but eonic or ‘for the coming eon’. Just read the original texts.

    I believe in Christ in Whom God will reconcile EVERYTHING to HIM, EVERYTHING on earth, EVERYTHING in Heaven (Col1:20) and Who accomplished EVERYTHING on Calvary.

    By the way, how is it possible to survive a CONSUMING fire, where the worms (obviously not perceptable for fire either) eat all the flesh and nervous system and brains of the humans thrown in and those people still will have pain and will cry? I think the worms cannot live for eternity on that flesh because at a certain point it will be all gone, digested!
    And what on earth did worms do WRONG to have such a terrible ordeal to live in the Lake of Fire??

    Demonic Theology! Nothing more, and so far from the truth:

    “For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior; who DESIRES ALL PEOPLE to be saved and come to FULL knowledge of the truth.” (1Tim2:3-4)

    “But our God is in the heavens.
    He DOES WHATEVER HE PLEASES.” (psalm115:3)

    1. Polleke,

      It is clear that your mind and heart are closed to what the Word of God is.

      There is a Pastor I know in Puerto Rico. His daughter was murdered by her husband. Do you know what this Pastor did? He went to the jail, and told his son-in law I forgive you. then he spoke to his son in law about Jesus Christ and prayed for him.

      The bible tells us in Matthew 6:14-15 “For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. 15 But if you don’t forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

      I am sure you being a Universalist will probably twist that into meaning something else.

      You ask how is it possible to survive and live in torment for eternity? If you have to ask that then I tell you, you do not know God at all, the creator of all things.

      Mark 9:48 47 And if your eye causes you to stumble, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell, 48 where
      ‘the worms that eat them do not die,
      and the fire is not quenched.

      Did you read that? Why would Jesus Christ said “the worms that eat them do not die, and the fire is not quenched” if it weren’t simply the truth? And you say demonic theology? Is that what you are calling God’s word?

      Repent for the kingdom of heaven is near, and stop following your own desires.

      2 Timothy 4:3 For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.

  14. Nice try Gloria,
    But you all are lying if you state to believe the Bible which says that ‘Gods love endures for ever’. Cause in your opinion, it will NOT!
    And the pastors foregiveness will not bring a tiny little gram in the salvation of the murderer. Only Jesus work at the cross does!

    And if you take the words of Jesus that litteral, why aren’t you blind yet? You really think the worms can eat eternally human flesh? Come on girl, they are not going to Micheal Jacksons Neverland but to the Lake of fire, a geographical place as well.

    Did it ever crossed your mind that the verse in 2Timothy could applicable for your by religion twisted brains? Let them be reformed by the word of God, and HIS word alone!

    1. Polleke,

      Calling me a liar is fine. But the name calling, will not stop me from speaking the truth, which is the Word of God. It all boils down to this:

      Revelation 3:3 Remember, therefore, what you have received and heard; obey it, and repent. But if you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what time I will come to you.

      And if you don’t see that as the exact truth, you will miss what time Christ comes to you.

      Regarding the Pastor who’s daughter was murdered: Luke 17:3 So watch yourselves. “If your brother sins, rebuke him, and if he repents, forgive him.

      He forgave him, and prayed for his son in law. This man will see the kingdom of heaven.

      Your comment: And if you take the words of Jesus that litteral, why aren’t you blind yet?

      By not taking the Words of God as truth, you risk losing your soul into the eternal pit. I have always taken Christ’s word as the truth, and he has never failed me yet.

      Repent from that false religion you call the truth, and read the Word of God.

  15. Dear Gloria,
    There is no ‘eternal’ pit, there is an eonic Gehenna and a purifying Lake of Fire.

    It is common knowledge among students of the Bible that, following this evil-ridden existence, there will be a one-thousand year kingdom on earth (Revelation 5:10; 20:4). Jesus referred to this as “the coming eon” (Mark 10:30). This gives way to a new heavens and a new earth (Revelation 21:1), which is yet another eon (Ephesians 2:7). Those who receive faith now live during these two future eons. This is the life Paul spoke of when he said, “the gift of God is eonian life” (Romans 6:23). Jesus spoke continually of this life. This is the way that Jesus referred to as “narrow” (Matthew 7:14). The narrow way had to do with Israel and the few who would enter immortal into that millennial kingdom, not with the eternal fate of the majority of mankind (Matthew 15:24).

    The word eon will be strange to some. It mustn’t be any longer. This noun and its adjective (“eonian”) appear in the New Testament over 190 times (in the original Greek) as aion and aionion. Why haven’t many recognized them in our English versions? Because “expert translators” have decided to interpret rather than translate. More on this in a moment.

    No two words in the history of man have been so tortured as aion and aionion. No two words in the history of man, mishandled by man, have contributed more to the physical, emotional and spiritual harm of so many, than these. You think I must be exaggerating. But I am not. It is the mistranslation of these two words that has foisted the false and destructive doctrine of eternal torment upon the church and the world.

    Eternal torment is built on the sand of mistranslation, slipped easily upon saints who would like eternal torment to be true, if only to anoint themselves “divine messengers” on a “great commission

    The following considerations are vitally important to your peace and understanding of God.

    Our English word eon is derived from the Greek word aion. (Remember, the New Testament was originally written in Greek.) It even sounds like it and is nearly spelled the same. Obviously, it would be the perfect translation of aion. An eon is “a duration of time.” So is an aion. (See W.E. Vine’s An Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words. Vine defines aion as “an age, era; signifies a period of indefinite duration, or time viewed in relation to what takes place in the period.”) Had this word been left to speak for itself (the Concordant Version does that, putting “eon” for aion, always, and “eonian” for aionion, always), the false terror of eternal torment would never have arisen to deceive the saints and turn the world from God. Several versions do translate it consistently. (Besides the Concordant Literal New Testament, Rotherham’s Emphasized Bible, and Young’s Literal Translation.)

    The ineptness of the orthodox translators can be easily verified. Look up the words “ages,” “world,” “eternal,” “everlasting” and “forever” in either a Strong’s or a Young’s concordance. (These reference tools list every word in the King James Version and their source word from the original languages.) You will find that these words, a veritable hodge-podge, are all interpretations of this single Greek noun (aion) and its adjective.

    Such interpretations are not only disparate, they are asinine. The same Greek word cannot mean ages in one place and forever in another. Ages have to do with time and plurality, while forever is the opposite of time and defies duplication. (If the reader wishes to imagine two forevers, he may try it. Minors attempting the feat will require adult supervision.) Can one word mean both day and night? Neither can one word mean both time and no time. An orthodox bias has made fools of otherwise intelligent men.

    Yet here is the rub. Even where the scriptures speak of the life of believers as eternal, an error is an error.

    1. Polleke,

      For a minute I thought is it worth to keep debating with you, since it appears you are very “hard headed” in you view of what you “think” the bible is. But Christ died for our sins, in so that if we accept his gift of salvation, we can be with him for eternity.

      Why do you quote only partial versus? In doing so, you turn the Word of God into “your word.” Mark 10:30 cannot be taken as is, without reading the versus in between and after. The section you are refering to is men asking Jesus how you can enter the kingdom of heaven. If you read it correctly, even you will see that not all will enter the kingdom of heaven. If you read it incorrectly as you are doing now, you twist it into your own word.

      Your comment: There is no ‘eternal’ pit, there is an eonic Gehenna and a purifying Lake of Fire.

      My Comment: What is so purifying about the Lake of Fire? Sinners are going to be tormented there for eternity for turning there back to Christ. Time and time again, Christ gives sinners chances to repent and turn to him. What do they do? They follow the “god” of this world which is Satan. When Christ comes righteous judgment will come with him.

      2 Corinthians 11:13-15 For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. So it is no surprise if his servants, also, disguise themselves as servants of righteousness. Their end will correspond to their deeds.

      I a sinner, not worthy of being in the presence of Christ, has been in his presence, and felt the love he has for me. It is an indescribeable feeling. I tell you with all my heart Polleske, repent for the kingdom of God is near. I dare you to sit down, and read the Word of Christ for what it is the simple truth, and stop adding/or twisting it into your own meaning.

  16. Yep you are very religious! That’s the whole point. It is a hinderance to study Gods word.

    I just cannot understand why supposed followers of Christ would like to see the majority of Gods creation suffer an agonizing pain for ever and ever on satans barbeque party. And the Father, the CREATOR of these human beings finds that all ‘okay’ and ‘justified’??
    Is that even a gospel (=good message)??
    Is that according to the Good Shepherd and Heavenly Father whose love endures for ever??
    Who will reconcile EVERYTHING to Him in Christ??
    Don’t you see that you give the victory to satan, a creature, instead of the Almighty God?

    I hope God will not longer harden your hard on that one before this eon of grace will come to an end.

    1. Dear Polleke

      Shalom.

      My grace is now over. Please find another site to spread your lies and falsehood. Let me end my debate with a truth-mocker like you with this verse.

      1 Corinthians 6:9-10.
      Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.

  17. ” This saying is faithful and WORTHY of ALL ACCEPTANCE. For to this end we both labor and SUFFER reproach, because we have set our trust in the living God, who is the Savior of ALL MEN, especially of those who believe. Command and teach these things.”

    Paul had nothing to fear form atheist or gnostics. It was the religious people who loathed the very width, length, height and depth of Christs work at Calvary!

    Your grace me be over. God’s isn’t. It will NEVER!

    All the best

  18. If all will be saved then surely its pointless preaching the gospel, I can go down the pub and have a pint, some fish n chips on the way home and watch the football on match of the day instead of wasting my precious time praying, reading the word and investing finances in certain ministries. Why didn’t someone tell me this years ago, eat drink and be merry cos when you die everything turns out alright in the end. What madness this is, it sounds like the popish doctrine of purgatory.

  19. Tom,
    That IS the gospel. So spread it!
    What is wrong with a pint, fish and chips, watching a football game.
    Are you guys orthodox jews? amish? Pharisees? What???

    And no one told you before because the church do not understand the letters of Paul to the eclessia.
    We are living in the eon of grace, not of works or the law.
    If you want that, just cling to the law and hopefully you survive the tribulation to see the Messianic kingdom installed in the Middel East, from where the gentiles (YOU!) will be reigned with an iron rod.

    1. Your idea of what grace is, appears to be seriousy skewed. You are correct, we are in the age of grace, but that does not give the okay to break God’s Law. We are not not saved by following the Law, yes, but instead we are saved to follow the Law. “What is wrong with a pint, fish and chips, watching a football game”, you ask? That would spend your time taking part in such selfish and earthly things, when you could be spreading the good news of Jesus.

      And of what tribulation do you speak? I know not of such a thing.

      1. your way over in left field mate, completely out of context and missing the point, what makes you think I don’t spread the gospel, what makes you think I don’t invest financially helping others also to spread the gospel, Im sorry that your finding me eating offensive but unfortunately if i don’t eat ill die after a few weeks, my kids wouldnt be too happy about that but I guess that doesnt matter to you at all, amazing also how many times over a pint the gospel has been shared, generally to an audience who would never set foot in a church or view a site such a this. I thought we were to go into the world to preach the gospel. there is no commandment mate that says ‘thou shalt not eat fish n chips for they are an abomination before the Lord’, stop being religious and get real mate. peace be with you.

    2. There’s nowt wrong with a pint and some fish n chips, you missed the point mate, no im not jewish nor amish or even pharisee or saducee, Im from County Durham. Pointless carrying on if you don’t get my point, all the best anyway.

  20. There is a fast growing movement of pseudo Christians hell-bent to convince others that hell either doesn’t exist or is not eternal. For those of us who know otherwise, it should be reassuring to just how close we are to the very end.

    2 Timothy 4:3
    “For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.”

  21. I’ve just read through all these posts and it is obvious that Polleke is nothing but a false teacher. Way at the the beginning of the thread he began to become very rude and confrontational. He is obviously a demonic plant sent to distract and frustrate us. There is no point continuing on with him. He will just succeed if we continue to do so. Hold fast brothers and sisters, men like him are becoming more commonplace everyday. Cling only to God’s Word and not distracted by the drivel of a babbeling blasphemer. Nothing we’ll say here will make a difference. He’s in God’s hands.

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