The Koran brands Jesus as Jesus son of Mary. Not Jesus the Son of God. The Vatican includes Muslims as a part of God`s plan of salvation.
Many Catholic faithful are disturbed when they see the Pope kissing the Koran. But this act by the Pontiff is not strange at all. Because the Vatican and Islam basically worship the same «god». They also have common views on the pagan Queen of Heaven.
The Roman Catholic faith and the Muslim faith is also in agreement in regards to Jesus the Son of Mary. They basically serve the same «Jesus». The problem is that non of them serve Jesus as God, God the Son, the only way to our Father God in Heaven.
In Islam Jesus the Son of Mary is only a prophet, who can not even save him self. In the Roman Catholic Faith, their «Jesus» is the Son of the Mother of God, the pagan Queen of Heaven. «Jesus of Rome» is not the only begotten Son of God the Father. Who does not have a «wife», or a Queen of Heaven by his side.
Both the «Catholic Jesus» and the «Jesus of Islam» are deceptions, copy-cats of the Jewish Jesus of Nazareth.
When Rome and Islam meet to Interfaith gatherings, they have a lot more in common than most Christians are aware of. Many Christians knows that the Catholics have elevated Mary the Catholic to be «forever virgin», to become the Mother of God, called to be worship as the pagan Queen of Heaven. But few Christians know that Muslim also have the same adoration for this woman.
First, the Koran portrays Jesus Christ as a prophet, unique in His preincarnate nature, miraculous birth, miracles and moral stature. Muslims revere Jesus Christ. As the Koran states:
The angels said to Mary:
Surah 3:45-3:46.
«Allah bids you rejoice in a Word from Him. His name is the Messiah, Jesus son of Mary. He shall be noble in this world and in the world to come, and shall be one of those who are favored. He shall preach to men in his cradle and in the prime of manhood, and shall lead a righteous life.”
It is interesting to note that in the Koran, Jesus is almost exclusively referred to as «Jesus son of Mary», and absolutely not the «Son of God» The Koran vehemently denies that Jesus is the Son of God, yet it holds both Jesus and Mary in high esteem.
Muslims consider Mary the greatest of all women.Furthermore, Muhammad is reported to have said that Mary reached the «level of perfection».
Mary is mentioned no less than 34 times in the Koran. In addition, the 19th surah (chapter) of the Koran is named after her. Based on these facts alone, it is apparent that «Our Lady» is surely seen as blessed above all women by orthodox Muslims. Please, consider the following two quotes taken directly from the Koran:
Surah 3:42.
And remember the angels’ words to Mary. They said: “[Allah] has chosen you. He has made you pure and exalted you above womankind.”
Surah 19:30-32.
«Whereupon [Jesus] spoke and said: “I am the servant of [Allah]. He has given me the Book and ordained me a prophet. His blessing is upon me wherever I go, and He has exhorted me to be steadfast in prayer and to give alms as long as I shall live. He has exhorted me to honor my mother and has purged me of vanity and wickedness».
Vaican: God of the Bible and Allah is the same
It is also interesting to note that both Islam and the Roman Catholic Church believe that Allah and the God of the Bible are the same. Quoting from the Catholic Catechism we read:
Catechism of the Catholic Church
Paragraph # 841.
«The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day»
This is not expressed in public in Catholic Churches, but it is a doctrine of the Vatican. If you dont believe me, just read Catholic Catechism as it is presented on the official website of the Vatican. To get there, just click on the blue line above.
Behold:
If you are in a Church which make you worship a false Messiah, You are lost, and will end up in the eternal punishment of Hell. You have been deceived by your priests and teachers, and you are in need of deliverance.
Because the only way into the Kingdom of Heaven goes through the Jewish Messiah, God the Son, Jesus of Nazareth. Only if cleansed by the blood of Jesus, the only blood that can cleanse us from our sins, man can escape the fire of Hell.
First published: June 28th, 2009.
Written by Ivar
ivarfjeld.com 
Does anyone really care? Institutionalized religion…when did it become relevant and when did it stop? The central truth to Crhistianity is Christ and God’s inspired word. Once anyone steps away from that have stopped being relevant and started being religious. Jesus was not about religion but about a personal relationship. FYI: I work in a church.
Dear Erik.
Thanks for your positive and reflective comment. I will make my reply simple: If Jesus is not God, He can not save anyone. He has created me, and He holds the key to life and death. Jesus said: «The Father and I are One». If you deny that He is God, he was only a man who could not even save Him self. Neither can he same anyone else. You have basically rejected your salvation.
BINGO!
Exactly!
Dear ivarfjeld, May the good Lord continue to grant you the Wisdom to deal & continue to live for his Glory, Amen.
Hello Ivarfjeld
Has Erik said that Yashua Messiah (Jesus Christ) is not God or am I missing something?
Dear thetruthnotdoctrine
Shalom, and love in Jesus.
I do not know what Eric has said. But the Bible explans that Jesus is eternaly, the begotten Son of God. Always God.
With respect, I am now a little confused, because Erik said this:
“Does anyone really care? Institutionalized religion…when did it become relevant and when did it stop? The central truth to Crhistianity is Christ and God’s inspired word. Once anyone steps away from that have stopped being relevant and started being religious. Jesus was not about religion but about a personal relationship. FYI: I work in a church.”
And you replied with this:
“Thanks for your positive and reflective comment. I will make my reply simple: If Jesus is not God, He can not save anyone. He has created me, and He holds the key to life and death. Jesus said: «The Father and I are One». If you deny that He is God, he was only a man who could not even save Him self. Neither can he same anyone else. You have basically rejected your salvation.”
And I couldn’t see where in Erik’s comment that he had said that Jesus was not God.
Dear thetruthnotdoctrine
Shalom and love in Jesus.
I have never said that Erik belive “Jesus is not God”. I rather thanked him for a positive and relective comment. There might have been others among the 90 comments, who had doubted that Jesus is God.
Jesus was fully God and fully man but not fully institutionalized in the present day religous sense. Not a rejection of salvation but an embracing of a relationship movement and not a religious movement.
Erik.
Shalom. I do not disagree with you. To follow Jesus is not about religion. Its about a personal relationship. Enabled by the Holy Spirit, you will be saved by the knowledge that God the Creator have payed for you sins, and invites you to become your best friend. Knowledge about «Jesus» will not save you. You have to know Him as Lord.
You play on the semantics of religion and relationship. Religion is relationship and relationship if for spiritual reasons is religion. These modern semantics are subtle deception.
Your very good a walking in circles aren’t you? What? Say again?
Religion is to work for your salvation. Personal spiritual relationship with God through Jesus Christ is salvation itself.
hi my friend
there is not another god in the sky
there is only one
He is allah
He is one
Allah is one
When you they believe that ?
The Islam is the only religious its right .
Must you Read about Islam….
before the end your life and all
plz you do not enrage
I love you..
Dear r7vu.
Shalom. Thanks for loving me. Please also pay for my sins! Just like Jesus did.
der ivarfjeld
is that mean you have no sins anymore cause jesus already pay for your sins..??
for what hell and heaven exists..?? god bless you..
Dear Hendri
Shalom.
You asked:
is that mean you have no sins anymore cause jesus already pay for your sins..??
for what hell and heaven exists..?? god bless you..
My reply:
The world is full of sins. But the shed blood of Jesus cleanses us from the stains of sins, in the eyes of God the Father. When He looks at you, He sees a saved sinner. Justified by the death and resurrection of His Son, Jesus the Messiah.
Heaven is God’s own Kingdom. Those who believe and obey the Messiah will be permitted to enter.
Hell is a place prepared for the Devil, also called Satan or Lucifer. All who rejected the Messiah will have to spend eternity with the devil.
Smart ! Who MUST for your sins for free ! You have to pay for your sins no one else but you. Pharaohs waited for their redeemer Horus, still wait in their grave as mommy.. You will do the same…Illusions .. false promises… “unfair” if Jesus is really god. Pious as sinners?
Hi my dear ivarfjeld
“I testify that there is no god but Allah, and that Muhammad is the messenger of Allah”
Read this book plz and give my your point of view
Click to access islam-guide.pdf
or visit this site :
http://www.islam-guide.com/
nice day
Dear R7vu
Shalom. Mohammad got this revelation about Allah around 600.A.D. What was God`s name before Mohammad lived?
Dear ivarfjeld:
Deuteronomy 24:16: “The fathers shall not be put to death for their children, nor shall the children be put to death for their fathers; a person shall be put to death for his own sin.”
Are you saying that God doesn’t follow His own Law that he has established for us?
By saying that “Jesus blood is the only thing that can wash away our sins”, you are really saying that God will not hold you accountable for any sins that you commit.
It is this very logic that is one of the main reasons why God revealed the verse in Deutronomy. We will all be held accountable for our sins. And the only way is to seek the forgiveness and Mercy of God Almighty by doing two things: REPENTING for the sin(s) and then performing good deeds to make up for it. You must also do your best to stay away from committing such a sin again…
Also, if you believe that the only way God showed the world how much he loved it, was by having “his only begotten son” put to the cross, you are essentially denying every blessing that God has given you (ie, sight, heart, strength, mind, family, friends, career, etc.) It is the countless blessings that God bestows upon us that shows His love for us. There is no need for a blood sacrafice.
Dear Malhahafi.
Shalom. Deut 24:16: «a person shall be put to death for his own sin». Yes, I believe in this.
«The wages of sin is death. But the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord». Romans 6:23.
How has Jesus given us the gift of eternal life? By His blood. He was the Lam of God, that was slaughtered as a perfect atonement for our sins. When He comes back, He will come as the Lion of Judah, as the judge.
Your wrote:
By saying that “Jesus blood is the only thing that can wash away our sins”, you are really saying that God will not hold you accountable for any sins that you commit.
My reply:
Absolutely not. That my sins have been washed away by the blood of Jesus, does not permit me to go on sinning. But I am no longer a slave of sins, but a rather a slave of his righteousness. The Jewish apostle Paul explained that there was an ongoing battle inside of him, between his sinful nature and the Spirit. Since Paul was not able to always do what he was supposed to do, he was in need of the mercy and grace of Jesus everyday of his life. But his sins were already forgiven, at the cross of Calvary Hill in Jerusalem.
Yes, God of the Bible has given me a lot of good things. Blessings like a family, friends and a career. But the most important «thing» He has given me is the free gift of salvation by the washing away of my sins in the blood of Jesus.
Allah is pagan moon god he is not the God of Abraham ,Isack , and Jacob
According quran he is capricious god even Mohammed was not certain of his salvation despite his claim to be a prophet.Come to Jesus HE IS THE WAY THE TRUTH AND THE LIFE
The term Allāh is derived from a contraction of the Arabic definite article al- “the” and ʼilāh “deity, god” to al-lāh meaning “the [sole] deity, God” (ho theos monos).[4] Cognates of the name “Allāh” exist in other Semitic languages, including Hebrew and Aramaic.[3] The corresponding Aramaic form is אֱלָהָא ʼĔlāhā in Biblical Aramaic and ܐܰܠܳܗܳܐ ʼAlh or ʼĀlōho in Syriac.
The contraction of al- and ʼilāh in forming the term Allāh (“the god”, masculine form) parallels the contraction of al- and ʼilāha in forming the term Allāt (“the goddess”, feminine form).
soo… Islam and Allah didn’t just pop out 1,400 years ago.. Islam Means peace.. and way of life.. to live your life by rules and regulations.. that are best for us.. and who knows whats best for us..then the One who made us all..
Allah didnt give birth to nothing..or Allah was born..Allah is nothing that our minds can amagin..Allah is unique in His form and existance.. may He have marcy on us..on Judgement day.. ameen..
Sura 4:136 (Al-Nisa) – “0 believers, have faith in Allah and His Apostle, in the Book He has revealed to His Apostle, and in the Book He formerly revealed (Bible). He that denies Allah, His angels, His Scriptures, His apostles, and the Last Day, has strayed far from the truth.”
Sura 5:48 (Al-Maida) – “And to you We have revealed the Book with the truth confirming what was revealed before it in the other Books, and standing as a guardian over it.”
there is word BIBLE in qur’an.. THE BOOK.. and in the own bible.. there is no word bible.. funny.. ha?
Sura 29:46 (AI-Ankabut) says: “And do not argue with the people of the Book (Jews and Christians) except in the best way, unless it be with those among them who do evil. Say: ‘We believe in that which is revealed to us and which was revealed to you. Our God and your God is one. To Him we surrender ourselves.'”
peace..
Dear 7as
Shalom. Thanks for your reply.
Your wrote: He that denies Allah, His angels, His Scriptures, His apostles, and the Last Day, has strayed far from the truth.
My comment:
He that denies God the Son, has strayed far away from the truth. Islam denies that God has a Son. Thats why Islam is a lie. God the Son was born born by a Jewish Mother, and observed the Jewish Law of Moses. His name in Hebrew is Y`shua. In the English translation, he is worshiped as Jesus. The Prince of Peace, The Kings of Kings is the Only One who can save you! He died on the cross in Jerusalem, shed his blood for us, and resurrected from the grave after three days. All other proclaimed divine «Shepherds» that came after Him will rob you of your Eternal life. That included the claimed to be prophet of Muhammad.
This is the truth.
You have done a wonderful job in defending the Christian faith brother Ivarfjeld:)….thank you!
Amen and Hallelujah to that, brother!!!!
Peace of Christ on all of u…….. Firstly the word Bible means compilation of books…. It is a group of books put 2gether and is called the Bible ….. This name was obviously given after the books were put together…….. Why is it that the Quran says ONLY ALLAH CAN CREATE….. But in the Quran Jesus created a Bird? Why is Jesus the only person called THE WORD OF ALLAH ……. Why in sura 19:19 is Jesus the only one caLLed HOLY…… The only other being called holy in the Quran IS ALLAH???? ….. In the Quran Allah says that After ADAM EVERY MAN From this DAY Shall come forth from a marriage and Sperm……. Howcome Jesus didn’t come into the world from a marriage and sperm???? Is it because HE IS NOT JUST A MAN?
Allah is the Arabic word for god, a tittle, which has been used to give to important people, like angels and Musah (Moses) are called gods. Though in Torah, Jewish and Christian Bible as in the Quran it is written that there is only One divine God of gods, Who is an eternal Spirit who can not be seen by man or they would die. That God also can not be tempted nor sin.
According to the Holy Scriptures Jeshua (Isha, Jesus, Chesu) was a prophet and master rabbi. He is the send one from God. He is presented as a bringer of the Word of god, like Moses, Abraham, Jeremiah, Ezekiel and other prophets. In the gospel of John he is compared to the word coming into the flesh because God in the garden of Eden promised a solution for the sin of man. God created a second Adam, born out the tribe of king David. That man was the son of the workman Joseph and Miriam (Mary/Maria) It was a man of flesh and blood, who was seen by many, was tempted more than once, could sin, but did not, was mocked at and tortured, impaled until death overtook him. (These are all signs he was a man like any other man and not God).
Though Jeshua was not born form sperm. He was place in the womb of the virgin Miriam/Mary.
“30 But the angel said to her, “Do not be afraid, Mary, you have found favour with God. 31 You will be with child and give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name Jesus. 32 He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give him the throne of his father David, 33 and he will reign over the house of Jacob for ever; his kingdom will never end.” 34 “How will this be,” Mary asked the angel, “since I am a virgin?” 35 The angel answered, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called {Or So the child to be born will be called holy,} the Son of God.” (Luke 1:30-35 NIV)
“21 When all the people were being baptised, Jesus was baptised too. And as he was praying, heaven was opened 22 and the Holy Spirit descended on him in bodily form like a dove. And a voice came from heaven: “You are my Son, whom I love; with you I am well pleased.” 23 Now Jesus himself was about thirty years old when he began his ministry. He was the son, so it was thought, of Joseph, the son of Heli,” (Luke 3:21-23 NIV)
We should accept that Jesus was a son of Adam, a son of Abraham, a son of David and a son of man, like any other human being is a son of man. But Jesus is also the only begotten son of God. To have a son you do not have to have sex with an other person. You too can become a father of somebody without having had sex with somebody else.
Most Muslims would consider Abraham as their father, like we as Christians do, but we can assure us Abraham had no sex with our mothers. Abraham is our patriarch, because we descend from his lineage.
Jesus directly placed by god, his heavenly Father, in the womb of Miriam/Mary has all the reason to call his heavenly Father his Father, but he also asks us to reconcile with his Father and calling Him Father.
We should accept Jesus his offer, presenting himself as ransom for the sins of humankind. Jesus really died, whilst God can not die, and was made higher than angels, though lower before (remember God is the Most High, always has been and always shall be the Most High and Most Almighty) Jesus was taken up in heaven to come and sit (not on God His throne), but next to God to be a high-priest and mediator between God and man.
Those who do not want to accept the offer Jesus brought, give a sign they do not want to love him and do not want to believe a man is capable to love God in such away as Jesus did.
ALLAH IS SATAN, HERE IS THE PROOF
Luke 4:5 Then the devil ( allah/satan ) took him up into a high mountain, and shewed him all the
KINGDOMS of the world, in the twinkling of an eye.
6 And the devil ( allah/satan ) said unto him, All this power will I ( allah/satan ) give thee, and the glory of
those KINGDOMS; for that is delivered to me, ( allah/satan ) and to whomsoever I
( allah/satan ) will, I ( allah/satan ) give it.
7 If thou therefore wilt worship me, ( allah/satan ) they shall be all thine.
Surah Ale-Imran 3:26. Say (O Muhammad ): “O ALLAH! Possessor of the KINGDOMS, You give the kingdom to whom You will, and You take the kingdom from whom You will, and You endue with honour whom You will, and You humiliate whom You will.
In Your Hand is the good. Verily, You are Able to do all things.
Rev. 11:15 And the seventh Angel blew the trumpet, and there were great voices in
heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are our Lord’s, and his Christ, and
he shall reign for evermore.
17 Saying, We give thee thanks, Lord God almighty, Which art, and Which wast,
and Which art to come, for thou hast received thy great might, and hast OBTAINED THY KINGDOM.
Jesus does not retain the kingdoms of the Earth, UNTIL, He rains on Earth AT THE END.
dwilliams0123456789 did you not put in the word “allah” next to Satan. So you consider God the same as Satan?
Allah in many languages, like ours, means god and is used for the many gods but also for the God of gods, of Whom there is only One and not three like many on this site wants others to believe.
All established corporate Religions (Daughters of the Harlot) have returned to their Mother Harlot (Vatican Roman Catholic Church). It’s time to get out of BABYLON.
Greatest gift from GOD to mankind is REDEMPTION.
Redemption means 1)Deliverance, rescue 2)repurchase of something sold 3)recovery by payment as of something pledged.
Redeem means 1)to obtain the release or restoration of, as from captivity by paying a ransom 2)to deliver from sin and its consequences by means of a sacrifice offered for a sinner.
The lastmost sentence is the answer for eternal life, conditioned by truth, fear & obedience to GOD. We all are living in a fallen world away from righteousness, let me not take this Fasion-Religion and all this hocuspocus lofty words for granted.HONESTY, OPENMIND & WILLINGNESS is needed.
the RCC view of the trinity is a lie.Jesus did not call himself God,he’s the son of God. The trinity is false. As far as Allah, yes Christians speaking Arabic use Allah as well.
Dear Laura.
Shalom.
You wrote:
the RCC view of the trinity is a lie.Jesus did not call himself God,he’s the son of God. The trinity is false. As far as Allah, yes Christians speaking Arabic use Allah as well.
My comment:
Isaiah 9:6
For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
(end of scripture)
If your “Jesus” is not God, neither is he the “son of God”. He is a false Messiah.
I believe in the Bible. I do not care to much about various private opinions of people. Not even what some claimed to be “Christians” in the Middle East might say or do.
John 10:30
I and the Father are one.”
John 20:28
Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!”
The only reason why God is called Allah in the Arabic bible is because arabic countries are controlled by muslims…… Why is Allah called Allah in every language by a muslim…… He can speak russian, english, arabic even a tribal language and they will all call him ALLAH……….. This is the name of YOUR GOD…….. Your Allah is father to no one…….. My God has a SON……. They are not the same!!!!!!
He is NOT Jesus, He is YESHUA, fully God and fully man.
HalleluYah!
For Laura — the Nicene Creed in Greek, affirming the Trinity.
Πιστεύω εἰς ἕνα Θεόν, Πατέρα, Παντοκράτορα, ποιητὴν οὐρανοῦ καὶ γῆς, ὁρατῶν τε πάντων καὶ ἀοράτων. Καὶ εἰς ἕνα Κύριον Ἰησοῦν Χριστόν, τὸν Υἱὸν τοῦ Θεοῦ τὸν μονογενῆ, τὸν ἐκ τοῦ Πατρὸς γεννηθέντα πρὸ πάντων τῶν αἰώνων· φῶς ἐκ φωτός, Θεὸν ἀληθινὸν ἐκ Θεοῦ ἀληθινοῦ, γεννηθέντα οὐ ποιηθέντα, ὁμοούσιον τῷ Πατρί, δι’ οὗ τὰ πάντα ἐγένετο. Τὸν δι’ ἡμᾶς τοὺς ἀνθρώπους καὶ διὰ τὴν ἡμετέραν σωτηρίαν κατελθόντα ἐκ τῶν οὐρανῶν καὶ σαρκωθέντα ἐκ Πνεύματος Ἁγίου καὶ Μαρίας τῆς Παρθένου καὶ ἐνανθρωπήσαντα. Σταυρωθέντα τε ὑπὲρ ἡμῶν ἐπὶ Ποντίου Πιλάτου, καὶ παθόντα καὶ ταφέντα. Καὶ ἀναστάντα τῇ τρίτῃ ἡμέρᾳ κατὰ τὰς Γραφάς. Καὶ ἀνελθόντα εἰς τοὺς οὐρανοὺς καὶ καθεζόμενον ἐκ δεξιῶν τοῦ Πατρός. Καὶ πάλιν ἐρχόμενον μετὰ δόξης κρῖναι ζῶντας καὶ νεκρούς, οὗ τῆς βασιλείας οὐκ ἔσται τέλος. Καὶ εἰς τὸ Πνεῦμα τὸ Ἅγιον, τὸ κύριον, τὸ ζωοποιόν, τὸ ἐκ τοῦ Πατρὸς ἐκπορευόμενον, τὸ σὺν Πατρὶ καὶ Υἱῷ συμπροσκυνούμενον καὶ συνδοξαζόμενον, τὸ λαλῆσαν διὰ τῶν προφητῶν. Εἰς μίαν, Ἁγίαν, Καθολικὴν καὶ Ἀποστολικὴν Ἐκκλησίαν. Ὁμολογῶ ἓν βάπτισμα εἰς ἄφεσιν ἁμαρτιῶν. Προσδοκῶ ἀνάστασιν νεκρῶν. Καὶ ζωὴν τοῦ μέλλοντος αἰῶνος. Ἀμήν
This kind of unity between deceptions that mocks God and doubt the Lordship, Christship and Sonship of God is evil. Jesus is Lord, Christ and Son of Jehovah, the most High God.
This kind of unity between deceptions that mocks God and doubt the Lordship, Christship and Sonship of God is evil. Jesus is Lord, Christ and Son of Jehovah, the most High God. There is no agreement to decide truth. The Bible is the only truth.
There is no relation between Virgin Mary & her son Prophet Yesa & the Nazarenes faith’s in Mary the Virgin mother of Jesus
read Acts 24:5 & 11-19 it is a heresy. Read it in a edition of before 1999 not in a new editions of NT.
marwanyafi,
I have no idea what you are going on about in your last comment but in the comment before that you said:
“Smart ! Who MUST for your sins for free ! You have to pay for your sins no one else but you. Pharaohs waited for their redeemer Horus, still wait in their grave as mommy.. You will do the same…Illusions .. false promises… “unfair” if Jesus is really god. Pious as sinners?”
Most of this comment is unintelligible but I do take exception to the idea that “You have to pay for your sins no one else but you.” Like most unbelievers, you do not understand grace. Christianity is unique in the doctrine of grace–but you do not understand it even though you claim in your own holy book that Allah is “most merciful”. Our God has made a way for us to be in heaven with Him for eternity and it is through the Blood of the Messiah. It was the whole point of the sacrificial system of Moses. It actually goes back to the time immediately after the Fall of Adam and Eve but it wasn’t formalized until Moses’ time. It was a foreshadowing of the sacrifice of the Messiah. Isaiah prophesied about it 700 years before the birth of Jesus, in Isaiah 53. Jesus said that, “Abraham delighted to see my day.” His meaning was that Abraham understood, by faith, that a Messiah—the Lamb of God would come to take away the sins of His people. It is all in the Bible. If you read the whole of the Bible instead of picking out random passages, you MIGHT understand and be saved. You really oughtn’t to comment on things that you do not understand. Every stray word will be held against you in the Day of Judgment—if you do not become saved.
I believe in the “right fair equitable Creator the Eternal”, who will judge our works, Allah, be exalted, not in an “illusion free Savior”, cause there are 37 “crucified Saviors as yours in history, in Matthew 12:36- but I say unto you, that every idle, word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.37- For by thy words thou shall be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.
James 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
Where is your “REDEEMER” in this?
Your religion is a combination & collection of all prior pagan religions & false one.
Read Acts 24:5 & 11-19 “Christianity- Sect of the Nazarene” is a “Sect” not the original religion of Messiah
There are NOT “37 crucified saviors” like Jesus, in history—that is a lie from the pit of hell, made by the enemy of the souls of humanity. If you would read the entire Book of James rather than your pet quotes from it, you might understand that works are the evidence of faith. The Book of James is about faith and the evidence of faith is good works done out of love for God. The writer of the Book of James also speaks of the “law of love” the “law that sets you free.”
The “scarlet thread of redemption” is a constant theme woven in and out of the Old Testament and the New Testament. The oldest book of the Old Testament (the Book of Job) speaks of a Redeemer—look it up please. Jesus is our Kinsman Redeemer. Learn what that means.
Why do you come here, marwanyafi? I have said it before, but if your purpose is simply to harass Christians, that is hardly a worthwhile act. You would be much better off doing acts of service for other Muslims so that you will be fortified for when you stand before the Righteous Judge in the Last Judgment. If you are determined to resist His love and grace in this life, you will certainly face His judgment in the next. In any case, you are digging an ever deeper pit for yourself by coming here and taunting Christians.
Islam came more than 500 years after the Christian faith was born. Your mohammad would just have copied some of the commandments into your koran. The converted son of hamas to Christianity said, “why call mohammad a prophet when he had no single prophecy? Mohammad claimed to have ridden on a donkey to paradise in the middle of the night but there are no witnesses to the claim. But Jesus’ resurrection & ascencion to heaven have many witnesses.” The existence of the Jews is sure proof that the bible is true & the God of Abraham, Isaac, & Jacob is the true God. He is powerful so that Israel could not be defeated because He is protecting them. This God sent His Son Jesus to die for the sins of mankind, so that those who believed will be saved.
Marwan,
You are utterly DECIVED by lies and follow the devil’s religion. Your 37 saviors is the devils mockery who is the master of copy-cat deception. The enemy always offers copy-cat religions.
Why do you listen to a PERVERT and call Mohammad a prophet? A man who married a little child. Disgusting and a sin.
You are searching for truth, Marwan. You will find Him in Jesus who is the WAY THE TRUTH AND THE LIFE.
marwanyafi,
I wonder if you would like to comment on this: http://rt.com/news/egypt-sex-dead-wife-054/ It is an article that speaks of an utterly shocking new “law” proposed by the Islamists in the Egyptian parliament to allow Muslim men to have sex with their wives after the wives have died. In cultures influenced by Christian values, it would be thought of as extremely depraved. We even have a name for it—“necrophilia”. It is so repugnant that it is rarely even spoken of–except as a mental disease. But you Islamists wil fit in well with the RCC because they do love to display dead bodies in their “churches”.
It is all thoroughly disgusting.
Do you do it? No more alive women in Egypt? Or it may be more delicious with glacial dead woman? Never made love before?
If you’re looking for motivation to demonize Islam, you need look no further than Russia Today itself. I’m not saying RT started this ridiculous rumour and I’m sure the other sources that have reported this have their own reasons, but a story like this would certainly help drain the world’s sympathy for the Chechan independence movement and give more leeway for Russia to continue its human rights abuses against them. Russia has always had a vested interest in demonizing Islam; once, when questioned about Russia’s abuses in Chechnya, Vladimir Putin responded that “They are talking about the need to kill all kaffirs, infidels, all non-Moslems, or Crusaders, as they say. If you are a Christian, you are in danger!” This kind of rhetoric has a long history of being used by the Russian state and I’m not really surprised that RT would jump to publish this fear-mongering rumour with little more backing than “someone else reported it first.”If you’re looking for motivation to demonize Islam, you need look no further than Russia Today itself.
I’m not saying RT started this ridiculous rumour and I’m sure the other sources that have reported this have their own reasons, but a story like this would certainly help drain the world’s sympathy for the Chechan independence movement and give more leeway for Russia to continue its human rights abuses against them. Russia has always had a vested interest in demonizing Islam; once, when questioned about Russia’s abuses in Chechnya, Vladimir Putin responded that “They are talking about the need to kill all kaffirs, infidels, all non-Moslems, or Crusaders, as they say. If you are a Christian, you are in danger!” This kind of rhetoric has a long history of being used by the Russian state and I’m not really surprised that RT would jump to publish this fear-mongering rumour with little more backing than “someone else reported it first.”
Marwanyafi,
There are a lot of articles about it. If it was untrue, at least one of them would deny that any such law was proposed— I didn’t see one denial. But there is a long history of sexual perversion in Egypt—from ancient times till now among Muslims there—necrophilia is just one of them. I won’t go into them as this is a Christian website. Coptic Christians in Egypt are free of that kind of filth.
Do you want “Muslim” denies this absurdity? And every “modern Crusade” comes of your Priests-gods-Liers?
Well this is what you want:
Free “Agape” for all. There are about 20 million Muslims in USA.
It is a “Free delivery” with Pepperoni, this week, for your “wife, dead or Alive”, before they wait the promised ETERNAL life, or as soon as she dies, it is very good & tasty, one for free for husband too, as bonus.
I am a good “lover”, especially for who does not believe- “This Egyptian Muslim Law”-; I will come for free, day & night, to make him believe-respect this “delicious love act” with or without pepperoni, by just a missed call.
It is not of Muslims of today but it is since thousands of years ask all whom lived in Muslim countries, they taste it with their wives…
I am a “believer in it” are you?
Try it with your “fresh dead” wife or neighbor, if not, you will miss a “believed act by foolish”.
When you make a “lie” try a “believable” one at least.
By the way, I find it very revealing of Islamic hypocrisy when Muslims complain of “human rights abuses” when Islamic communities are very abusive of the rights of non-Muslims in lands that they control. The Christians in Islamic areas have reason to fear Islam. There are over 100,000 Christian martyrs every year—most of them in Islamic lands.
Ellen
By the way too, do you believe this too?
In Lebanon we are fifty fifty, we live in peace. Do not believe the Christian media, “Christianity” at least kills millions each year!!!!!
Who said Christians fear Muslims, with hundreds of years together?
Until Your armies came to us!; “What they do in our countries” always false pretexts Afghanistan is far away of USA & Europe, Iraq also, Why?
We leave this to the fair Justice of the Eternal.
MarWanyafi
you are nothing more than a filthy nasty person influenced by the devil,you may do part time job for going for free to others wife,but if you dont repent an turn your ways and accept Lord Jesus Christ as ur saviour,then you are destined to hell.
so from you way of seaking we came to know more clearly what islam is all about,and though we already know what is what,by the grae of God. Encountering hypocrites like you is not new.
any way may the Lord have mercy on you is prayers. Still you have time .repent .not to allah or muhammed,they already are pleading in hell. Only Jesus Christ is the Lord and saviour. AMEN
One of the things that you don’t understand, Marwan is that just because someone comes from a “Christian” country doesn’t mean that he/she IS a Christian. Being a Christian is a condition of the heart—not belonging to an ethnic group or a nation. Real Christians do not lie, steal or murder. They belong to Jesus NOT Satan who was a liar, a thief and a murderer from the beginning. If a Muslim is a liar, thief and murderer—he belongs to Satan—whether he SAYS he belongs to God or not. The same is true of a “Christian”—if he says he belongs to Jesus and he lies, steals and murders—then he is no Christian, no matter what he says. Our politicans are rarely true Christians, no matter what they say.
Your politicians ?! Who are elected by your nation, to steel, to kill & to lie, this is their program.
When a true genius appears in this world, you may know him by this sign:That the dunces are all in confederacy against him
Jonathan Swift
Why “Crusades” by the Harpies, over History, in all known forms, are against the call of Prophet Mohammed, peace unto Him, not against any other religion?
Do you want the truth?
Take a “generous Qura’an” from a Mosque, it is free, never of a book store, read it, nothing to loose, it is the shorter way to know the truth. It is our Law, Cult, & many many other things… You will be surprised.
In Islam there is no obligations. You choose, you act, you collect.
it seems to me you are fair for the truth. Bravo.
Marwan,
You said, “Take a “generous Qura’an” from a Mosque, it is free, never of a book store, read it, nothing to loose, it is the shorter
way to know the truth.”
Many, many Christians have given Bibles away for centuries. Our church gives them away free to visitors. The Qura’an is NOT the way to know the truth. The only truth it contains is what Mohammed copied from Christians. The Qura’an requires Muslims to persecute Christians. Do you really believe that God would require that. The New Testament requires Christians to feed, love and care for non-Christians. We are forbidden to persecute ANYONE.
Interfaith gathering between Islam and the Vatican. Worshiping the same «god», cause for Arab Christians the “God” is “ALLAH”, be exalted, not , Jesus, Yeshua neither Jehovah…
The Vatican is unlikely to contain many (if any) real Christians. No matter what they say, Allah is not our God.
Marwan,
You said: “Your politicians ?! Who are elected by your nation, to steel, to kill & to lie, this is their program.”
You can’t be so naive to believe that yours are any better!? At least there is enough of a Christian influence left in our land (although it is fading fast) that ours don’t murder their own people (so far). You can’t say the same about Islam’s political leaders, unfortunately.
All politicians are the same.
Read our generous Qura’an, it is the shorter way to know the truth.
I stop. You stop too, until you read the Qura’an, be back.
SO STOP.
I have some thing else to do. Stop.
Sorry, your solders sent to kill & to die too, by your politicians, they do not kill their people. I said we must STOP. OK.
Marwan,
You said: “Sorry, your solders sent to kill & to die too, by your politicians, they do not kill their people.”
Bulloney! Tell that to the thousands of Syrians killed by Assad of Syria!
and now the dead sea scrolls has been found just after israel teturned to the which contains the war scroll written by the sons of Zadok .the sons of belial will be no more for YHWH will destroy them all.now how is it that this scroll has been allowed to be found at this time as it has been there for 2000 years or so.Religion will not save men ONLY YHWH CAN.
Why does this debate continue
Islam is evil. Jesus is absolutely the only way to heaven. It is in the Bible the only true Word of God.
Now if God has a mother has they claim… Did God Himself create His Marian Mother… This is a doctrine of pagans and a great indicator of end of times… They are fulfilling the prophecy in Revelation…
am confused about Islam as a religion of peace when Sunnis and Shites are busy destroying each other….am confused about Allah being the most merciful yet some are brutally killing people they called infidel in front of camera quoting koran.Allah they called Father,yet people’s hands are being cut off for mere petty stealing. Jesus used earthly father to illustrate our relationship with God and I can’t imagine any earthly father who will cut off his children’s hand just to stop them from stealing.we were told in the Bible that God does not delight in the death of sinners but will that may come to repentance….for me that is A Merciful God…..they brought a woman caught in adultery with a judgement of Moses on her neck…yet Jesus spared her life,sent her away to go and sin no more…that is Mercy….so its either that Allah is the most wicked or those who are killing ih his name are most wicked
I can’t remember which blog I saw it now but some muslim was saying how muslims expected “jesus” (their “jesus” or “issa”, which Rick Warren cited at o’bama’s inauguration) to fight the anti-Christ. Still, Jesus was referred to as a prophet like Muhammad. So, I asked, “if Jesus was a regular prophet like Muhammad, why is it that Jesus can return from being DEAD?” That ended the “conversation”
all talk about various religions being right, other being wrong, and not to much about OUR God. If Jesus is a vehicle, he showed all of us God manifest, and that “some of us” won’t see, NOT a HIM. any bias,judgment or prejudice just can’t perceive “Heh”. NOW, I COMPREHEND ALL OF YOU.
God help us all!! against the bloodthirsty muhammeddanes!
So there are false bloodthirsty Christians too. Being against, or “anti” to some in OUR Gods life, and being equally judged, but not by me, I am simply observing, that we are all fairly equal here on earth. Any complex, in its mind, alone can’t seem to comprehend all of us.
I checked the reference in my own copy of the Catechism of the Catholic Church, paragraph 841. It is correctly quoted. This is presumably the basis for Pope Francis’s recent atrocious statement in Evangelii Gaudeum about Islam, correctly understood, not being about violence. But this is theological crap, both to anyone who knows Islamic doctrine, and who heeds Christ’s pointer for discerning false prophets: “By their fruits you will know them.”
Paul, in Galatians, describes the fruit of the spirit: “love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such there is no law.” But Islam’s fruit is hate, misery, violence, impatience and intolerance, cruelty, evil, lying and deceit, immoderate fanaticism, and a complete abrogation of any personal responsibility (especially by men).
There is complete cognitive dissonance between the YHWH/God of all the OT prophets and Jesus, and the life and teachings of Mohammed.
I note the careful wording of #841 about Muslims: “these PROFESS to hold the faith of Abraham ….”
Does the Vatican **really** believe that Islam worships the God of Christians and Jews?
Islam’s key claims are:
Man does not need salvation from an inherently sinful nature
Jesus was not the Son of God
Jesus was not sent as a blood sacrifice (the mandatory atonement for sin – theology from Genesis) to atone for the sins of the world
Jesus did not die
Jesus did not rise again.
So Islam denies the purpose for which Jesus came into the world – to bring salvation.
Surely #841 of the Catechism is an indication of Smoke of Satan in the Vatican.
Islam is a terrorist teaching of the Koran? How Pope Accepts Book of Satan terrorist???
Islam is a terrorist teaching of the Koran? How Pope Accepts Book of Satan terrorist???John II: 8 Look to yourselves, lest you lose what we have done but that we receive a full reward * 9 Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God and abide in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son * 10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this education do not receive him in the house and do not tell him peace * 11 because of greets him shares in his evil deeds *
Once again, the Catechism quote is taken out of context. Read through to the REST of it, not just #841. Read through to #848! The Catholic Church is merely saying that we as HUMAN BEINGS have a longing for God, and that in our fallen nature, some have only know ‘shadows’ of the true God, and that we are called as Catholics to help them find their way. TRY, just try, to not be so dang divisive amongst Christians!!!
This is easy to figure 1 one if there is a God there is a satan/ devil .2 God would be love n truth ,Satan/devil would be lies n hate
So take the time to read all holy books bible, Qur’ān ,Hindu ,Buddhist, Kolbrin then you will see what one is of god n what’s of man/satan. Like the first verse of the Egyptians bronze book. Mortal knowledge is circumscribed by mortal ignorance, and mortal comprehension is circumscribed by spiritual reality. It is unwise for moral man to attempt the understanding of that which is beyond his comprehension for their lies the road of disability and madness
So let’s say what we know for sure god is love n truth .Satan/ devil is lies n hate
For what the pope is doing it’s his job to destroy the church to usher in the new world religion this is biblical prophecy
I pray for all you to have understanding in this times will get tuff n there is only one way to haven “but by grace alone”
Killing people will not get you in cutting peoples heads off will not get you in doing good deeds will not get you in the only way in is threw the true god of love n truth and no one will come to him but threw his son Jesus Christ
Jeremiah chapter 7 & 44. The people are warned!!
Why is the Muslim allowed to maintain an argumentative demonic presence on this blog. Ban him.
In Revelation 21:6-7 Almighty God reveals Himself to us:
“And he said to me, ‘It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. To the thirsty I will give from the fountain of the water of life without payment. He who conquers shall have this heritage, and I will be his God and he shall be my son.’”
Then in Revelation 22, Jesus reveals Himself to be “the Alpha and the Omega . . . the beginning and the end”
Therefore, Jesus is God.
The Catholic Creed says:
I believe in God, the Father Almighty, Creator of heaven and earth; and in Jesus Christ, His only Son, our Lord—-
Jesus is the Son of God.
Jesus was born into eternity of a Father without a mother.
Jesus was born into time of a Mother without a father.
Jesus is born into us at Baptism.
Dear armorrcc
Shalom, and love in Jesus.
You wrote:
Jesus was born into eternity of a Father without a mother.
My reply.
This is simply not true. Jesus was not “born into eternity”. Jesus the Messiah is eternal.
The Roman Catholic religion also teach that the claimed to be mother of Jesus, was ever virgin. She never had sex. That she was born sinless, and that she is a co-matrix, a co-redeemer etc. blaspehmy, and nothing but Blashemy.
You wrote:
This is simply not true.
Let me try to explain, I think you do not understand what I’m trying to explain.
See John1:1
Eternity has no beginning, and it has no ending. “The Word”, was already in existence when GOD created time in Genesis 1:1-5. The Word existed before the beginning of time. The Word already ‘was’ in the beginning. The Word is therefore eternal.
Jesus is the Word.
Jesus is God
You wrote:
This is simply not true.
I am asking you, to then please explain to me below Scripture Verse.
Colossians 1:15
The Supremacy of the Son of God
15 The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
Dear armorrcc
Shalom, and love in Jesus.
You asked me to explain:
Colossians 1:15
15 The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
My reply:
The son (God is flesh) is the image of something that is invisible. That is something very special. God that has appeaed as a human. And this human being is the new adam, the first of its kind, a hundred percent human, who ois also hudred per cent God. There has never been, and there will never be, anything like Him in all the creation. And He is surely ABOVE the creation. He is the eternal creator. Amen.
(end)
Ivar
You wrote:
“and that she is a co-matrix”
My reply:
There is no Catholic teaching that Mary is co-matrix or has been given the title as co-matrix.
Do you have any evidence that the Catholic Church teaches Mary is co-matrix?
Dear armorrcc
Shalom, and love in Jesus.
The highest lever of religious blamspemy against the Woed of God is found in the Roman Catholic religion. In particular the teaching number 996 in the Catechism of the Catholic Church:
966 “Finally the Immaculate Virgin, preserved free from all stain of original sin, when the course of her earthly life was finished, was taken up body and soul into heavenly glory, and exalted by the Lord as Queen over all things, so that she might be the more fully conformed to her Son, the Lord of lords and conqueror of sin and death.”508 The Assumption of the Blessed Virgin is a singular participation in her Son’s Resurrection and an anticipation of the resurrection of other Christians:
(end)
The claim of Catholic Mary”s “singular participation in her Son’s Resurrection” is the doctrine that leads to her role as co-matrixs, or a co-redeemer. This is the old pagan belives in the Queen of Heaven, who is the heavenly queen, a sinless. goddess, packed into Christendom.
The Roman Catoolic religion is not based on fiction, the idea of “Catholic Mary”. This religion is formed on doctrines taught by demons. The prinisicaplity of darkness do exist. It is one of the strongholds of Satan, who do have a “christ” in its center. The son of the pagan Queen of Heaven.
Act 19:27 So that not only this our craft is in danger to be set at nought; but also that the temple of the great goddess Diana should be despised, and her magnificence should be destroyed, whom all Asia and the world worshippeth.
I think the early popes changed Diana into Mary. Back then people worshipped Diana, now they worship Mary.
I prayed on this…God ‘s answer to me, through scripture re Muslim faith was this… (paraphrased) What I have against them is their leaders pervert my word and teach their people lies. Christians are still held to loving their neighbor, despite this. The Koran is a mixture of Torah, Christianity, and Pagan religion/ways – it’s not pure. Pope proves to be very infallible for kissing the Koran. Church has become corrupt by Globalists implementing their religious agenda on mankind.
My comment on infallibility was sarcastic. Pope proves to be very fallible for kissing the Koran.
According to the bible God has no mother and was the first of everything. Jesus is a man of flesh and blood, a prophet and master teacher, called “son” by the Divine Creator.. Lots of Christians do take Jesus as their God, but there are also many Christians who like the Jews and Muslims only worship the Only One God of gods, the Elohim Hashem Jehovah?
The Muslim “god” is not the Christian God, nor the Jewish God. Their god is a god of hate and war. Our God is a God of mercy and peace.
By “there”, I mean Muslims only.
*their
Where do you get it from that the Muslim God would not be the same as the Jewish God. About the Christian God I could agree when you take in consideration those Christians who do believe Jesus is God. But for the Christians who do accept what God in the Bible says, that Jesus is His son and not Him, and that he is a man of flesh and blood, not a spirit, what Jesus also proofs, the God to whom Jesus prayed and even asked why He (God) had abandoned him (Jesus), is the God of Abraham, the God of Jews and Muslims.
Where do you get it from that the God of the Muslims would be a god of hate and war and that the God of the Christians Who also had some wars going in the past, would not be such a god demanding the same things. The God of Adam, the God of Moses is the same God of Abraham and the God of Jesus, Isaac, Jeremiah, Muhammad and other prophets.
I would appreciate ti that you come with evidence to fulfill your accusations.
Dear Marcus Ampe.
Shalom, and love in Jesus.
The Bible explains that Jesus is God. It do not matter what people might tell me, and what their opinion might be. If you ddo not want to believe the Scripture, you are free do reject it. But please repent, and believe the good news I am bringing you.
Isaiah 9:6
For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counsellor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
John 1:1
[ The Word became flesh ] In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 1:14
The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.
John 20:28
Thomas said to him, ‘My Lord and my God!’
Romans 9:5
Theirs are the patriarchs, and from them is traced the human ancestry of the Messiah, who is God over all, for ever praised! Amen.
@ivarfjeld the quotes you bring forward talk about the promised Messiah andof the Word spoken by God.
Isaiah 9:6 does not say that Jesus is God but brings the prophesy of the child ithat shall be born and which shall be “a son” (not God) given to humanity. This “son of God” (not god the son = something totally different) shall receive the government “on his shoulders”. He also shall be called “Wonderful Counsellor, Mighty God” which happened and as such got the prophesy fulfilled. Jesus being called a god gets him a tittle like the angels are called god in the Bible, but also Pharaoh and Moses, plus in the present day we find Clooney, Presley, Maradonna, and many others called god, but do you think they are really the God of gods?
You painstakingly seem to take the word also to be God. John 1:1 and John 1:14 speaks about the Word becoming flesh. In his gospel which the evangelist John wanted to write like the Torah, starting with the Bereshit, he also brings the story of Jeshua like the Genesis of the New World, where everything came into being by the speaking of God, like it was in the beginning of the Old World. In the beginning was the Word, which is the speaking of God = an action, a thing not a person. Naturally the Word was with God because the apostle talks about the Divine Creator speaking and not human beings. God His speaking brought to life the 2° Adam and by making the young girl Miriam (Mary/Maria) with child the prophesies of the past came into fulfilment.
Literally in the text of John is written:
Yah Chanan (#Jo 1:1-3): In the beginning the Word having been and the Word having been unto God and God having been the Word he having been, in the beginning, unto God all through his hand became: and without him not even one being whatever became.
Which could offer the first verse in English as:
“In a beginning was the Word, and the Word was with the God, and a god was the Word.” (Emphatic Diaglott – interlineary side)
“The Word was in the beginning, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a God.” (The New Testament in An Improved Version)
“In [the] beginning the Word was, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god.” (NWT)
a god is something totally different than teh God, the Elohim Hashem Jehovah, you seem to overlook that.
Also you do seem to see the “and” standing before “god”, plus forgetting the expression “oh my god” when people are astonished, which is still used today by many, even by lots of people who do not believe in god or in a god. Do you think when they say that to some one they think and do you think that person to who they are saying it to is really the God?
Dear Marcus Ampe
Shalom, and love in Jesus.
As I said, you can have your opinion. But I believe the Word of God. If God wants to appear in flesh, who can stop Him? I believe Yeshua is God, who appered in flesh. I say as Thomas, “My Lord and my God”. By His blood, we are redeemed. The temple in Jerusalem is gone. But the Messiah reigns. Eterally the begotten Son of God of the Hebrews.
You are allowed to have your opinion. I do not mind you believing what you want to believe, but I only want to bring forward what is written in the Holy Books, the Torah, Jewish and Christian Bible and in the Quran.
Lots of people believe other things than are written in them though say to be followers of it. Like you have that in Christendom you also have that in Islam. Several Islamists, like lots of Christians do want to keep to their taught doctrines, which are not according to what is written in their holy books. Others believing the sayings or reacting on the handling of such fundamentalist groups can have a total wrong opinion of what is written in those books, because often they themselves do know not what is written in it. Talking to many Muslims I also found the same as for many Christians that they never had really read their holy books.
Shalom,
ivarfjeld I do find it strange that your blog has in its title “exposing fake and falsehood”. Is it than not important that is be shown from both sides what is really said and what is really written in the holy books people are so called using, as well comparing their believes and sayngs in retrospect to their attitude and acts?
Are I am right to assume you are a Catholic, though it seems like you want to show a connection with Judaism, though you do not seem to believe in Only One True God, but in a Three-headed god, the “Holy Trinity”. Without an about page explaining to your readers your beliefs this website at first sight may give the wrong impression. Perhaps you can correct that by adding an about page and explaining your vision.
I do believe it was not intentionally that readers could or can get the wrong impression, and hope in the near future it shall become much clearer to visitors of this blog.
That God be with you
Dear Marcus Ampe
Shalom, and love in Jesus.
You wrote:
Are I am right to assume you are a Catholic, though it seems like you want to show a connection with Judaism, though you do not seem to believe in Only One True God, but in a Three-headed god, the “Holy Trinity”.
My comment:
Well, that is surely an amazing statement. Why dont you navigate around on this blog for some time, before you start presuming?
Marcus,
I’m unclear where your getting your information from or what you adhere to. Obviously you are not rightly dividing the word from SCRIPTURE ALONE and do not listen to the Holy Spirit. It all sounds like some New Age cult that combines a bunch of error and comes to a totally UNBIBLICAL conclusion.
(By the way, there is no true Muslim religion. Islam is a myth. An invention of the Vatican and the Jesuits. Google that for some eye-opening enlightenment because once you realize that truth, you will understand that the Jesuits currently control the planet until the return of Jesus Christ. You will understand the key battle between Satan and Jesus and will understand everything taking place on this earth.)
You said: “Jesus being called a god gets him a tittle like the angels are called god in the Bible, but also Pharaoh and Moses, plus in the present day we find Clooney, Presley, Maradonna, and many others called god, but do you think they are really the God of gods?”
Maradonna, Presley, Clooney? You are comparing these people to Jesus? Are you kidding me?
JESUS IS GOD.
“Jesus’ words in John 10:30, “I and the Father are one.” We need only to look at the Jews’ reaction to His statement to know He was claiming to be God. They tried to stone Him for this very reason: “You, a mere man, claim to be God” (John 10:33). The Jews understood exactly what Jesus was claiming—deity. When Jesus declared, “I and the Father are one,” He was saying that He and the Father are of one nature and essence. John 8:58 is another example. Jesus declared, “I tell you the truth … before Abraham was born, I am!” Jews who heard this statement responded by taking up stones to kill Him for blasphemy, as the Mosaic Law commanded (Leviticus 24:16).
“John reiterates the concept of Jesus’ deity: “The Word [Jesus] was God” and “the Word became flesh” (John 1:1, 14). These verses clearly indicate that Jesus is God in the flesh. Acts 20:28 tells us, “Be shepherds of the church of God, which he bought with his own blood.” Who bought the church with His own blood? Jesus Christ. And this same verse declares that God purchased His church with His own blood. Therefore, Jesus is God!
“Thomas the disciple declared concerning Jesus, “My Lord and my God” (John 20:28). Jesus does not correct him. Titus 2:13 encourages us to wait for the coming of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ (see also 2 Peter 1:1). In Hebrews 1:8, the Father declares of Jesus, “But about the Son he says, ‘Your throne, O God, will last forever and ever, and righteousness will be the scepter of your kingdom.’” The Father refers to Jesus as “O God,” indicating that Jesus is indeed God.
“In Revelation, an angel instructed the apostle John to only worship God (Revelation 19:10). Several times in Scripture Jesus receives worship (Matthew 2:11; 14:33; 28:9, 17; Luke 24:52; John 9:38). He never rebukes people for worshiping Him. If Jesus were not God, He would have told people to not worship Him, just as the angel in Revelation did. There are many other passages of Scripture that argue for Jesus’ deity.
“The most important reason that Jesus has to be God is that, if He is not God, His death would not have been sufficient to pay the penalty for the sins of the world (1 John 2:2). A created being, which Jesus would be if He were not God, could not pay the infinite penalty required for sin against an infinite God. Only God could pay such an infinite penalty. Only God could take on the sins of the world (2 Corinthians 5:21), die, and be resurrected, proving His victory over sin and death.”
gotquestions dot .org is Jesus God
I am not comparing these people to God but Maradonna, Presley, Clooney and many others are called god by many.
Pharaoh also is called a god like Apollo and Zeus, but surely I do not believe they are considered by the Bible, nor by me to be the Elohim Most High Almighty God.
The Jews did not want to stone Jesus because they thought he was saying that he was God. Jesus never said such a thing, instead he often confirmed he could not do anything without his Father Who is much higher than him. The Jews found Jesus was blasphemous calling himself the son of God and also by working on the Sabbath.
The Word is an “It” not a person. It was the speaking of God which became a reality. The Word of God spoken at the downfall of man in the Garden of Eden came into fulfilment.
I never said Jesus Christ did not buy others with his own blood. Just the opposite, I said Jesus really died, whilst God can not die. According to the Bible God is a Spirit Who can not be seen by man or they would die. Jesus was seen by many, who did not fall death. After his resurrection he showed the wounds to his disciples to proof he was no spirit but a man of flesh and blood, who gave his blood for humankind.
Above or in an toehr posting I explained already the issue of Thomas,but because you did not seem to have seen it I continue or go deeper on it.
Since Jesus is addressed by Thomas as “My Lord and My God,” this passage is considered by trinitarians to prove the “deity of Christ”-that he is “God the Son.”
But:
1. Thomas’ confession is an acknowledgment that Jesus had indeed risen from the dead, but it is not a declaration that Jesus is “God the Son”. Thomas, a Jew, used a mode of expression common to the Old Testament in which accredited representatives of God are referred to as “God”. Angels are called “God” in the following passages: (#Ge 16:7) cf. (#Ge 16:13; 22:8, 11, 15) cf. vs. (#Ge 22:16; Ex 23:20, 21). Moses is referred to as a “god” to Pharaoh. (#Ex 7:1), “god” is translated from the Heb. “elohim”). “Elohim” translated “God” can refer to the judges of Israel as in (#Ps 82:1, 6) cf. (#Jo 10:34). It is also translated “judges” in (#Ex 21:6; 22:8, 9) and “gods” (mg. “judges”) in (#Ex 22:28).
2. Earlier in this chapter, Jesus told Mary, “I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God and your God.” (#Jo 20:17). Since Jesus was to ascend to his God, then clearly he was not himself “Very God”
For Titus compare also: (#Isa 60:19,21; Re 22:3,4; Mt 5:8; Mt 23:26; Mt 27:59; Ac 10:15; Tit 1:15,16; Tit 2:13,14)“looking for the blessed hope and appearing of the glory {1} of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; {1) Or [of our great God and Saviour]}” (Titus 2:13 ASV) and please really look at what is written in your translation:
In one translation it is written in English like this:
“looking for the blessed hope and appearing of the glory {1} of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; {1) Or [of our great God and Saviour]}” (Titus 2:13 ASV)
So clearly directing to two persons 1 Jehsua (Jesus Christ) and the other 2. Jehovah God. You seem to look over the “AND” (accentuation by me) > while continuing to expect the blessed fulfillment of our certain hope, which is the appearing of the sh’khinah of our great god and the appearing of our deliverer, Yeshua the Messiah.
Tit 2:13 The Scriptures 1998+ (13) looking for the blessed expectation and esteemed appearance of the great Elohim and our Saviour יהושע Messiah,
Most modern versions blur the proper distinction between God and Christ, for examples: “our great God and Saviour, Jesus Christ” (NIV; RSV). It is true that there is in the original no article before “Saviour”, but the tendency in Greek usage to omit articles before proper names lessens the weight of such an argument. There is, grammatically, nothing that stands in the way of rendering the phrase as does the AV, or even more distinctly: “of the great God and of our Saviour”.
Why would God His death (which can not be a real death, because according to the scriptures God can not die) would not have been sufficient to pay the penalty for the sins of the world (1 John 2:2).
You are just confirming that no human being would ever be able to do God His wishes and as such God would have created a being that never could be perfect and as such God created an imperfect being.
Why could a created being, which Jesus would be if He were not God, not pay the infinite penalty required for sin against an infinite God. And why should an eternal God have to pay himself for something He Himself Created and can destroy or remake at once? Your idea would make of God a very cruel god, because than there would have been no reason to wait such a long time before making an end to all the suffering and to let people suffer still and after the third world war we still shall have to wait another 1000 years. so we are still not yet to the end of the suffering nor to the paradise.
No where in any translation in none of the languages in the Bibles I can compare is written that “Only God could pay such an infinite penalty. Only God could take on the sins of the world ”
In the Scripture translations I do have (2 Corinthians 5:21) is written something which could be translated in English as
“Him who knew no sin he made [to be] sin on our behalf; that we might become the righteousness of God in him.” (2 Corinthians 5:21 ASV)
It tells about Jeshua who was tempted more than once, could sin (God cannot be tempted nor sin), did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth (1 Peter 2:22) but like the apostles knew we should know that Jesus appeared in order to take away sins; and in him there is no sin. (1 John 3:5 )
God also did not have to pay a ransom to Himself, what the use would that be? All already belongs to God. You also seem to forget the writings of Paul and the sayings of Jesus himself who declare that he ‘(Jeshua) was sent from God and that God had set forth to be a propitiation, through faith, in his blood, to show his righteousness because of the passing over of the sins done aforetime, in the forbearance of God (Romans 3:25)
Though God knows everything Jeshua (Jesus) had to learn everything and even did not know when he would be coming back or who would be seated next to him in paradise. (Or are you giving an indication that Jesus did not tell the truth over there, because when he is God he would have known.)
The people who accept what Jesus really did do n-know what an offer he made, which is nullified by you, because it is nothing for God to fake a death (you would say) and God would always know He can not die so death never would do anything to Him.But Jesus was really afraid for what was coming and really prayed to his Father and not to himself, not being a hypocrite or schizophrenic, asking others not to pray to him but to his Father and only One God, to whom Jesus also cried and asked why He (God) had abandoned him. (God cannot abandon Himself nor be a mediator between Himself and man, though Christ has become the mediator between God and man sitting next to his Father – according the Bible – and not sitting on the throne of God, to Whom he shall hand over the Kingdom after some time – How can God hand over the Kingdom to Himself?)
Real Christians should belief in the ransom offer brought by Christ Jesus, who was delivered up for our trespasses, and was raised for our justification. (Romans 4:25)
And please look at what is written in the Bible, which I consider to be the Word of God, who does not tell lies:
For what the law could not do, {1 } in that it was weak through the flesh, God, sending his own Son in the likeness of {2 } sinful flesh {3 } and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: {1) Or wherein 2) Gr flesh of sin 3) Or and as an offering for sin; Le 7:37; Heb 10:6; etc } (Romans 8:3)
There as in Luke and other passages talking about Jesus is written the son of God, like God also confirmed who that man was in the river Jordan when he was baptised by his cousin.
We must be thankful that there was a man who could live up to the Will of God so that he (the Kristos or Christ) redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us; for it is written, {De 21:23 } Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree. (Galatians 3:13)
Hi Marcus,
Basically are you saying that Jesus is not God, just a prophet? Yet you believe that He can take away the sins of the world?
Theologians have argued whether God is a singular Oneness or a plurality. Deuteronomy 6:4 says, “Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is ONE.” The Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are ONE. Just like you are body, mind, and spirit, you are still Marcus, you are still one, you are not three separate people.
I think the issue here is understanding the trinity which is a tough concept to grasp from the vantage point of mere mortals on the earth.
If God is a trinity, how many thrones are there in heaven, and whom will we see there?
Do you think you will see the Father, perhaps an old man with a beard as one person, and then see another person who is Jesus as He was known on earth, and then see some sort of swirling spirit misty figure that is the Holy Spirit?
Here’s a hypothetical question: If you were to ask God to come in your room and visit for a while, how many chairs would you bring out?
I’ll give you the answer: ONE CHAIR. And in that chair Jesus would sit. Jesus is God.
————–
Revelation 4:2: “And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne.”
The Lamb had “seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God,” (5:6). Seven is the number of perfection and completion, so the seven eyes represent the fulness of the Holy Spirit. Thus the Holy Spirit is not a third person, separate from the Lamb, but is the Spirit dwelling in the Lamb that he “sent forth into all the earth” (Revelation 5:6).
The passage reveals that the Lamb was not a separate person from the One on the throne; but that the Lamb actually came out of the throne. “And I heheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne, and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb” (Revelation 5:6). Some translations by trinitarians say merely that the Lamb was in front of the throne, but the lexicon of Bauer, Arndt, and Gingrich, the most widely used and respected dictionary of New Testament Greek, says the Lamb stood “on the center of the throne and among the four living creatures” (p. 507).
Revelation 7:17 describes the Lamb as sitting on the throne: “the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne” … A beautiful truth emerges: the one God who sits on the throne became the Lamb. Our Creator became our Savior. Our Father is our Redeemer (Isaiah 63:16). God did not demonstrate his great love for us by sending someone else; instead, He came Himself and he gave of himself. “To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself” ( 2 Corinthians 5:19).
The Lamb is the one God incarnate, not the incarnation of a second person in the Godhead. Revelation 21:22 says that “the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple” of the New Jerusalem. In the Greek, the verb is singular, literally saying, “the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb is the temple.” Revelation 22:3-4 speaks of “the throne (singular) of God and of the Lamb.” It clearly refers to one throne and one being, not one throne and two beings, and not two thrones, for it uses a singular pronoun for God and the Lamb: “And his servants shall serve him: and they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads.”
Who is this One called both God and the Lamb? Only one being is both sovereign and sacrifice, both deity and humanity – Jesus Christ. No one has ever seen God at any time except by manifestation or incarnation (1 John 4:12), so what face will we see? The face of Jesus Christ, the express image of the invisible God (Colossians 1:15, Hebrews 1:3). And whose name are we to bear? The only saving name, the highest name ever given, the name at which every knee shall bow and every tongue shall confess – Jesus Christ (Acts 4:12; Phillippians 2:9-11).
When we arrive in heaven we will see one God on the throne – Jesus Christ. We will recognize Him as Father, Savior, and Holy Spirit, for “In him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily (Collossians 2:9). If someone expects or desires to see other divine persons, he should ponder Christ’s words to Phillip: “He that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?” (John 14:9).
We do not have to be confused about whom we pray to, whom we worship, and whom we will meet in heaven. In the words of Titus 2:13, let us look for “the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ.”
Amen, Come QUICKLY LORD JESUS!
FROM: Endtime truth dot com articles 8
@ivarfjeld do you believe God does not tell lies and is an honest god? Do you believe in the truth of the Bible and consider it the Word of God?
Do you know that in it is written that God is an eternal Spirit Who knows everything and that that god can not be tempted and can not sin?
You say yourself that we are redeemed by the blood of Jeshua, the Messiah. But when you know God can not be tempted, can not sin and can not die, all things Jesus could do, what for use would have the charade He did, doing as if He prayed to God and asked Him why He had abandoned Him, did as if He died and told that he was three days in hell, though according to other writings God does not come into hell and has His living quarters in heaven?
Iesus went to Hades, the place of the dead – not the condemned – to preach to those in the grave before HIm …raising up Adam and Eve, and all those passed who would receive HIm as Theos.(Greek word for God which means, “He Who Sees.”) Pray to Him for enlightenment and truth.
Yes I do know “sheol, hades or “hell” is no place of torture, but simply the word for sepulchre or grave, but many Christians take it to be a place where people after their death would come to reside to be tortured for ever, though Ecclesiastes makes it very clear that once we die it is finished and we come.to decay until we are dust again.
Where do you get it from Jesus would have gone to a place of the dead to preach to those in the grave? And where in your Bible or your holy books is written that Adam and Eve are raised up from the dead?
Marcus,
Many Bible translations say that Jesus’ last words on the cross were “My God, My God, why has thou forsaken me.”
This is a translation error. Jesus never lost faith nor was He forsaken. What He actually said was, “My God, my God, for such a purpose have you kept me, this is my destiny.”
Jesus came AS GOD in the flesh to die for the sins of the world.
The late Aramaic Bible researcher George Lamsa claimed that the traditional “forsaken” interpretation is a mistake in the Aramaic scribing that was transferred to later transcriptions.
Lamsa claimed that “the correct translation from Aramaic should be “Eli, Eli, lemana shabakthani” or “My God, my God, for this purpose I was spared!” or “…for such a purpose have you kept me, this is my destiny.”
The Lamsa translation also let readers know that Jesus was kept by God for the purpose to safe the world. God was not kept for Himself, nor would the faking of His so called dying be of any extra value to the position of God nor to the relationship between God and man. That relationship had to be restored. The 2° Adam (Jeshua/Jesus/Chesu/Jezus) took care of that, he has become the restorer of peace, the high-priest. God has no reason at all to play high-priest for Himself or does He?
What would be the sue of this ‘circus’ and what would be proven to the adversary (devil) ?
Hi Marcus,
You said, “nor would the faking of His so called dying be of any extra value to the position of God nor to the relationship between God and man.”
This is really getting off the deep end so this will probably be my last comment to you. Are saying that Jesus did not have to die or faked his death or that it was unnecessary that He die?
Let me tell you what God’s plan was in Jesus’ dying:
Jesus conquered death. He did not go to hell when he died. He went to Hades. There are two separate compartments in Hades:
1. Paradise (Abraham’s bosom)
2. Hell (Sheol) Unbelievers go here.
There is error in some teachings that says that Jesus took the Keys of hell from Satan. This is wrong. Satan never had the keys to begin with. The keys represent Jesus’ power and authority over everything. Jesus said, “I am He who lives, and was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore. Amen. And I have the keys of Hades and of Death” (Rev 1:18). Notice the word used is “Hades”, not hell,
—————
Did Jesus fight Satan for the keys to the kingdom?
Keys are a symbol of control. Keys keep people in or out. If they do not have a key to a lock, they cannot enter or exit. Keys grant the holder access to interiors and their contents, and in ancient times the wearing of large keys was a mark of status in the community. In the New Testament, the word “Hades” has a twofold usage: in some cases it denotes the place of all the departed dead (the grave – Acts 2:27,31); in others, it refers to the place of the departed wicked (Hell – Luke 16:23; Revelation 20:13-14). Since Christ alone has conquered death and has Himself come out of grave, He alone can determine who will enter death and Hades and who will come out. He has the “keys.” He has authority over death and the place of the dead.
“Satan has never possessed these “keys.” Satan has never had power to determine who goes to Heaven (the Kingdom) and who goes to Hell. Jesus did not have to fight Satan for the keys because the keys were never in Satan’s possession. God and God alone has power over death and Hell (Revelation 1:18). Jesus did not have to fight Satan for anything because Jesus’ death on the cross was His ultimate victory. Colossians 2:15 tells us, “…and having disarmed the powers and authorities, He made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross.”
Got Questions Dot Org Keys to the kingdom
Today we do find a lot of Christians reacting to Muslims in general as if they all believe the same as the crusaders did some centuries ago and told the people they were fighting in the name of the Christian God. They killed and murdered in the name of that God, making the attacked to believe that God was a cruel God wanting such wars.
A few decennials ago there were also a lots of priests and nuns who wanted theirs to believe it was al-right for God they had sex with minors and same sex people.It would now be the same when we would believe that this god of those fornicators was really agreeing with such atrocities. So, we should be very careful who we want to believe and to check what they say if it is really written like that in the books they say they follow.
That way we could have seen that the popes who let others be killed because they wanted not to accept the world was flat and the centre of the universe, were wrong and not following the books. The same for the popes who used many women or the ones who ordered that priests could not marry because (according to those popes) they had to stay celibate. Idem ditto can be given other examples for protestants, Jews, Hindu and other believers where many denomination can be found.
@varfjeld in any case you are not a Jew, and when you are a Messianic Jew who would believe in the Trinity this I would still find very strange, because that is something which I do not understand how it can be that by the Messianic Jews there are also some who believe that Jesus is God and part of the Trinity and some wo consider him to be part of a duality or binary god.
I must confess some of the writing seem very contradictory to our dialogue, namely articles looking to come from a Jewish hand, but then I would expect the writer to believe in the God of Abraham, which is the same God of Jews, Jesus, me, my brothers and sisters in Christ, and Muslims.
Also writings like “We should rather focus on the heavenly Jerusalem, which is still unseen, not yet come down to us from Heaven” get me to believe you are not Jewish or would be from a certain school I would like to come to know. But for sure this does not seem to be rabbinic teaching.
So, please do enlighten me.
Dear Marcus Ampe
Shalom, and love in Jesus.
You wrote:
So, please do enlighten me.
My reply:
Well, first i have to enlighten the readers. You are not a Christian, but belong to a sect of some 60.000 people who call themselves “Christadelphian”. That is a greek word for “Brethren in Christ”.
The “Christadelphian” do not belive in the divinity of Jesus. The Messiah is presented to us as a created being, not eternally begotten by the Father. The Christadelphian” also reject a place of eternal tournment, believed by classical followers of Jesus to be the eternal fire of Hell.
The “Christadelphian” doctrinal system of faith is very similar to Jehova Witnesses.
(end of explantion).
Marcus: You have to take Jesus at face value. The Messiah explains that we should not be scared of people who can kill our bodies, but not kill our soul. But rather fear Him who can throw our bodies nad souls into Hell. For people who lead others into sin, it would be better to have a millstone around the neck, that to…..
You live in error, and you deceive people. Please take this as a warning.
Matthew 18:9
And if your eye causes you to stumble, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into the fire of hell.
You do find you have to enlighten your readers first but do not enlighten me. I do know I am a Christadelphian, which is a Brother in Christ and do not belong to a sect or do not follow any human leader like so many denominations in Christendom and in other religious groups do. I have not idea what you want to become by describing me as belonging to a sect. Or perhaps you would like to tell your readers also to which sect you belong, or what you understand under sects or cults.
Do you know the followers of Christ were considered a Jewish sect, so in that instance as follower of Christ yes I do hope I may belong to the sect or group which was at that time called The way.
I also hope to grow and to become like Christ, which is demanded of us. But I do know that when becoming in Christ and united with Christ, in unison I shall not become like God nor be God like Jesus was and is not God.
He also said to his pupils he was going to his Father, and I belong to the group of Christians who believe that what Jesus said and also that what God Himself said about His son.
You might think I live in error because I do not follow human dogma’s but keep to the words of God. I think it is more important to keep to those Words of God instead of adhering human dogma’s, which you would like that all others follow.
Dear Marcus Ampe
Shalom, and love in Jesus.
You wrote:
Or perhaps you would like to tell your readers also to which sect you belong, or what you understand under sects or cults.
My comment:
Im am a Baptists. There are a couple of hundred millions of us. We believe in the classical doctrines of Christianity. That the Jewish Messiah Yeshua is hundred per cent man, and hundred per cent God. “ImmanuEl” litteraly means “God with us”. God of the Hebrews had appeared many times, like in the bush of Moses, and in the pillars during the crossing of the Red Sea. In the Messiah, God of the Hebrews came in flesh, and dwelled among us.
I gave you some scriptures that underlines the divinity of Jesus. You used human philosophy to nullify those scriptures. That is a fatal error. Also Jehovas Witnesses and Muslims do the same. They belive the Messiah was a created being, a mortal prophet.
The truth is that God came in flesh. Only God can forgive sins. When Jesus forgave sins, and equalized him self with God, he was mocked and the Jewish leaders even tried to kill him. On the cross the Messiah gained his absolute victory, never to be revoked or nulified. The forgivness of all sins. All people who claim this, and believe Jesus is God and the exclusive way to heaven will be hated by all men. Because the world desire to have their own opinions, and wants to include a lot of stuff to salvation. Also abolish the flip side of the coin, the possibility of eternal condemnation in the fire of Hell for all who reject the truth.
ivarfjeld in your search to whom I was and what I believed you seem not to have been thorough enough, because than you would not have to tell me who the Baptist were and are now, because for decennial I have been a non-trinitarian Baptist, but when the Baptist movement started moving more and more to the trinitarian doctrine I with a few 100 thousands (not to say more than 1 million) of my brethren and sisters worldwide had to make the decision to leave hat denomination.
Do you call the denomination were you are part of, the Baptists, also a cult? So why do you call our denomination a cult? We are less structured than the baptists who also have their Baptist Unions which say what others do have to believe and to follow and to do. This seems more cult-like than our movement where everybody is free to do what they want and how to do it. We have no human structure like in the baptist or any other protestant church or like in the Catholic Church.
You say because Jeshua was called “ImmanuEl” litteraly means “God with us” he is God. Than my brother is also God, and others called Immanuel or Emmanuel should be God?
You did not show me yet where in the Bible it says “God of the Hebrews came in flesh, and dwelled among us”. It was Jeshua, the son of God who dwelled with us as presentator of God.
You also do not seem to see the difference between divinity, divine, being godly and being The God. My wife may be divine but for sure I can assure you she is not God.
You alos say “Only God can forgive sins. When Jesus forgave sins, and equalized him self with God, he was mocked and the Jewish leader” but where does it say Jesus ever forgive sins or apostles forgave sins, though it is also said in scripture the have the poser to say to others their sins are forgiven.
Jesus never claimed to forgive the sins himself, but clearly said it was the work of his Father (not him) and never equalized him self with God, though he was mocked but never said to be the Jewish leader.
May I remind you of following sayings of Christ:
“40 But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I heard from God: this did not Abraham. 41 Ye do the works of your father. They said unto him, We were not born of fornication; we have one Father, [even] God. 42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I came forth and am come from God; for neither have I come of myself, but he sent me. 43 Why do ye not {1} understand my speech? [Even] because ye cannot hear my word. {1) Or [know]} 44 Ye are of [your] father the devil, and the lusts of your father it is your will to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and standeth not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. {1} When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father thereof. {1) Or [When] one [speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for his father also is a liar.]} 45 But because I say the truth, ye believe me not.” (John 8:40-45 ASV)
“Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, {1} Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end have I been born, and to this end am I come into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice. {1) Or [Thou sayest] it, [because I am a king]}” (John 18:37 ASV)
“Ye heard how I said to you, I go away, and I come unto you. If ye loved me, ye would have rejoiced, because I go unto the Father: for the Father is greater than I.” (John 14:28 ASV)
“5 Have this mind in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 6 who, existing in the form of God, counted not the being on an equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7 but emptied himself, taking the form of a {1} servant, {2} being made in the likeness of men; {1) Gr [bondservant] 2) Gr [becoming in]} 8 and being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, becoming obedient [even] unto death, yea, the death of the cross.” (Philippians 2:5-8 ASV)
“But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.” (1 Corinthians 11:3 ASV)
“And when all things have been subjected unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subjected to him that did subject all things unto him, that God may be all in all.” (1 Corinthians 15:28 ASV)
“Jesus therefore answered and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father doing: for what things soever he doeth, these the Son also doeth in like manner.” (John 5:19 ASV)
“Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, {1} Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve. {1) De 6:13}” (Matthew 4:10 ASV)
“Jesus saith to her, {1} Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended unto the Father: but go unto my brethren, and say to them, I ascend unto my Father and your Father, and my God and your God. {1) Or [Take not hold on me]}” (John 20:17 ASV)
“23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and truth: {1} for such doth the Father seek to be his worshippers. {1) Or [for such the Father also seeketh]} 24 {1} God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship in spirit and truth. {1) Or [God is spirit]}” (John 4:23-24 ASV)
Dear Marcus Ampe
Shalom, and love in Jesus.
You asked:
…but where does it say Jesus ever forgive sins or apostles forgave sins…
My reply:
It is pointless to explain scriptual truth, if you feel the scripture means something else than what is written. We will both be waisting our time. Let me give you one example:
Mark 2:5
When Jesus saw their faith, he said to the paralysed man, ” Son, your sins are forgiven.”
Mark 2:7
‘Why does this fellow talk like that? He’s blaspheming! Who can forgive sins but God alone?’
(end of scriptures).
It is possible to write side up and side down about what you feel these two verses might mean. You can add a lot of stuff, and you you can have your own opinions. But I have chosen to believe the Word of God. So should you. If not you are a false teacher, and you will have to find another site to introduce and defend your not Biblical doctrines.
Jesus did say the man’s sins were forgiven like any priest or pastor would say that to a person who come to confession or who come to baptism and let himself be whitewashed by the water of Baptism. You should know that as a Baptist because that is just what was said in my previous denomination at a baptism which was seen as essential to become a Christian and to receive salvation.
Jesus did not say he forgave the sins. If you take such a saying of Christ to be proof he is God tan those Baptist pastors saying to somebody their sins are forgiven and they can look forward to come to the Kingdom of God, would they all be God?
I did hope your readers shall be able to see what there is really written in those verses, and that there is not standing as you want us to believe “”I” forgive you your sins”.
Marcus,
I am very concerned for your salvation because you believe that you have found TRUTH through this lying, blasphemous denomination (a religious organization whose congregations are united in their adherence to its beliefs and practices ) Christadelphians.
The requirement for salvation is a personal relationship with the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. The “Jesus” of Christadelphianism is a false “Jesus” who you believe has a sinful nature. The Bible is clear, Jesus was without sin, “knowing that you were not redeemed with corruptible things, like silver or gold, from your aimless conduct received by tradition from your fathers, but with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot” (1 Pet. 1:18-19)
“For to this you were called, because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that you should follow His steps: “Who committed no sin, nor was deceit found in His mouth” (1 Pet 2:21-22) “And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin” (I Jn. 3:5).
Marcus, do you actually read the Bible? How can you believe Jesus was sinful when it plainly says otherwise in the Scriptures? You say that you believe the Scriptures are the inerrant word of God yet all you do is blindly follow the unsound doctrines of your cult’s founder, Dr. John Thomas. He obviously was a follower of Satan and a willful deceiver just like the leaders of Mormonism, Jehovah’s Witnesses, Christian Science, 7th Day Adventism, Spiritism and other cults.
You are a member of a cult, Marcus and the essential core of the teaching condemns you. You must stop arguing and start to READ what the Bible really has to say, though the interpretation of the Holy Spirit. I pray that He will give you wisdom to come into all truth.
Dear Jonah, you want to let your readers and me believe that I did not read enough the Bible. It might well be that you have read many more times the Bible but that would give me to question how you have read your Bible and what you have considered to be part of the Bible. (Perhaps you spend more time in reading the footnotes than the Words of God.)
I would agree that in the 1950ies I only encountered fragments of the Scriptures as read in our family and in the worship services. But I can assure you the Torah was imprinted in our hearts. My Old Roman catholic father took care we would become good Christians and had us also working in the Catholic Church where I became an acolyte. But growing up in a Judeo-Christian culture confronted with lots of Jews I always had questioned the Holy Trinity and knew that already in the Bereshit it was made clear that there is only One Divine Creator God.
In the 1960ies I went church-shopping and reading a lot of “Holy books” from different faiths. After my thorough research and even going to several services, of different sorts of religions even, I came to the conclusion that the non-trinitarian baptists had the truth. Though I do agree we only had Bible study on Tuesday and Thursday and worship service on Saturday night, Sunday morning and Sunday evening, because of my work I did not manage always to be present at the services and not always able to read every night or morning three chapters of the Bible, though at that time I took care at least one chapter a day and if I missed one to read some more chapters the next day.
Later as an elder and pastor I naturally had to study the Bible more thoroughly and be alert to give answers to the ones I spoke to.
Though in the 1990ies the American Baptist Unions became stronger in Europe and started everywhere in the world to press to the Trintiarian Faith. This made that everywhere in the world lots of my Baptist brethren and sisters already many years before me left the Baptist Church to become a member of the Jehovah Witnesses, Church of God,Church of Abrahamic Faith or the non-trintiarian Nazarene Friends.
In 1999 I once again undertook a thorough search in the validity of my believes. Everything went wrong that year and I even encountered a second near death experience. Having 6 months been paralysed, bounded on a bed I had more than enough time to read not only the Bible several times but also different books on faith.
Once more I could only come to the conclusion that my faith in the One God was the real good faith. The only thing is certain things I already came to see when I was a Baptist, but were not of general baptist belief, like the non-pre-existence of Jesus, made me to choose a denomination which had the same beliefs like I had.
In the ten years of revalidation, though never becoming the old one, I can assure you that I seriously spend a lot of time studying the Bible, more than my wife wanted.
Unlike you want to give your readers the idea that we would be a sect, meaning an organisation around a human leader where everybody has to follow that reader and give him their services and money, the Christadelphians are independent and have no human structure other than presented in the New Testament and necessary for worldly matters, like for providing premisses, internet services, publications, paying taxes, rents, etc.. Each Christadelphian has his own life and freedom and is not obliged to give anything to any organisation. Jesus Christ is our high priest and mediator between God and man (like is written in the bible, but naturally can not be so in case Jesus would be God, because than He could not intermediate between Himself and would not need Himself as a priest for a worship to Himself.) This is totally different than with my previous church, where at Sunday services stewards went around with a money bag, collecting money from those present. Each church also had to pay membership fees to the general office. But when you are a pastor in a Baptist Church you certainly would know which commitments you have to bear to others. (So I do not have to tell you that.) Christadlphians at the other hand are totally free, unbounded except bounded to Christ Jesus. Each ecclesia is allowed to organise its services like they want. All the people of the congregation make the ecclesia work.
None of you explained on which grounds you accuse us to be a sect or cult.
You finding I did not read enough my Bible, I can tell I have read multiple times in multiple languages (Latin, English, Dutch, French, German, Italian, a.o.) several translations of the Holy Scriptures. (I have more than the 26 standard ones I use)
I also can assure you when Christadelphians follow their reading plan, they read once the Old Testament and twice the New Testament each year, plus additional Bible readings according to the subject of the service and at the Bible study.
My parents, who would become 100 years old this year, I may say, should not be ashamed, having me brought up in the light of Jesus Christ, the Messiah, though I have chosen an other path than my father and my mother and many of my great family (Jews, Catholics, Protestants, Buddhists, atheists, and those who are not sure yet what to believe).
In the saying of the people “I have seen Abraham” (= more than half a century old and at the age of consent or at an age of considered knowledge) and had enough time to think about what is written in the Holy Scriptures. You accusing me that I would not have yet read the Bible does not make sense, plus is an unworthy act for somebody who calls himself Christian and should have had enough brains to get to know more of me before accusing me of something or of certain things, like ivarfjeld also did.
It is very good that you might have read more times the Bible (Old and New Testament), but I do hope you did it also with an open mind willing to hear what God has to say to you. I do hope you did let and will let God’s Spirit enter in your mind and let it educate it you, undone from the human dogma’s.
We do believe Jesus was without sin. He could sin but did not, that is what makes him so great. He only wanted to do the will of his Father. He himself said “not my will” In case he is God it would have been his will. Is it not?
I read the Bible regularly. If you would look at what Christadelphians do, you would know that most of them follow a Bible reading plan and if you would look at some of my other websites you would see that I take care of an ecclesia and write on several websites making me to study the Bible daily.
Opposite to several denominations in Christendom we listen to the words of God as they are given to us and when God says “this is my son” we do believe God and not human being who want to take Jesus to be their god. When Jesus says he does not want to do his will but the Will of his heavenly Father, without Hi he can do nothing and to Whom he shall go, we do believe that man his words, in the knowledge that he could sin but did not, so always told the truth. He himself said he is no spirit and does not know when he shall come back or who shall be seated next to him. God is an eternal Spirit Who knows everything. In case Jesus was or is God he would have lied to the apostles. Would he not? The Bible tells us also that God can not be tempted, so you do not seem to believe Jesus was tempted in the dessert and had no other occasions, like in the temple to have him put to the proof. We think Jesus was tested more than once but did not give in. You make him as if nothing could do to him and that he had nothing to fear, because God can not be tempted, can not sin and can not die. All things Jesus could.Jesus had to fear for his life and gave it to God for all mankind. That is a great offer you do not recognise. You nullify the ransom of Christ.
We threaten not any people so I am not going to say you should worry for your soul (your being), but may I advice you to read the Old and New Testament thoroughly and think seriously about the words given black on white for our understanding and education.
God be with you.
Dear Marcus Ampe
Shalom,and love in Jesus.
You wrote:
because God can not be tempted, can not sin and can not die. All things Jesus could.
My comment:
You need to hear the Gospel, and obey the scriptures. The good news is that God took form of a man. He became like us. Hundred per cent human. If you reject His humanity, that God has come in flesh, you are ruled by the spirit of antichrist. You present a copy-cat Christ to us.
2 John 1:7
I say this because many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist.
(end of scripture).
Simple semantics can be used, to reveal that something that was not of flesh, have become flesh. Jesus the Messiah did not appear to the Hebrews in flesh, when he the took them out of Egypt. He appered in a pillar of light.
Exodus 13:21
By day the Lord went ahead of them in a pillar of cloud to guide them on their way and by night in a pillar of fire to give them light, so that they could travel by day or night.
Who is the Lord? He is God the almighty.
And please listen to what Paul says, about th Lord who followed them out of Egypt.
1 Corinthians 10:1-4.
For I do not want you to be ignorant of the fact, brothers and sisters, that our ancestors were all under the cloud and that they all passed through the sea. They were all baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea. They all ate the same spiritual food and drank the same spiritual drink; for they drank from the spiritual rock that accompanied them, and that rock was Christ.
Marcus,
You can “READ” the Bible 25 hours a day and still not be saved. Why do you call yourself a Christian and masquerade as if you are the “real mccoy” when you are simply a member of an antichrist cult. It really bothers me when cults such as Catholics call themselves “CATHOLIC CHRISTIANS” or Mormons who call themselves Christians. There is no such thing as a Catholic Christian and there is no such thing as a Christian Christadelphian,
The Bible reveals doctrines that are essential to the Christian faith. They are 1) the Deity of Christ, 2) Salvation by Grace, 3) Resurrection of Christ, 4) the gospel, and 5) monotheism.
These are the doctrines the Bible says are necessary. Though there are many other important doctrines, these five are the ones that are declared by Scripture to be essential.
You deny the Deity of Christ. Therefore, you are not a Christian. You are here to push your CULT onto other people and that makes me mad because you do it dishonestly and in a sneaky way.
1 John 4:2-3: “This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.”
Here are some more lies your cult teaches:
They deny the doctrine of the Trinity.
They deny that Jesus is God in flesh.
They deny that Jesus existed prior to his incarnation.
They deny the personhood and deity of the Holy Spirit.
They deny the substitutionary atonement of Christ.
They deny salvation by grace through faith alone.
They deny immortality of the soul.
They deny that a person exists after death.
They deny the existence of hell and eternal punishment.
They deny the existence of the fallen angel Lucifer as the devil.
As you can see, the Christadelphians deny some essential doctrines of Christianity, namely, the deity of Jesus and salvation by grace.
Like so many other cult groups that claim to be the restored truth, they have their own interpretations of the Bible that deviate greatly from orthodox Christianity.
I would advise you to RUN to a Bible teaching church and rid yourself of all this error you have absorbed through the teachings of this horrid cult. I will pray for your success.
carm dot org what-do-christadelphians-teach
Dear Marcus,
You said, “None of you explained on which grounds you accuse us to be a sect or cult.”
———————————-
Question: “What is Christadelphianism, and what do Christadelphians believe?”
Answer: The Christadelphian sect was founded in 1838 by John Thomas, a London-born physician-turned-Bible teacher. Like the founders of the Jehovah’s Witnesses, Mormons and Christian Scientists, Thomas believed he alone had found the truth of real Christianity. One wonders how these men could “study” the Bible and come to the conclusion that God would leave humanity floundering in the darkness of error and apostasy for 1800 years, only to finally reveal Himself to one man. Nevertheless, that is what John Thomas taught.
Christadelphianism teaches the same two lies as literally every cult and false religion: it denies the deity of Jesus Christ and preaches a works-based salvation. Regarding the deity of Christ, Christadelphianism teaches that Jesus was more than a man, but less than God. According to A. Hayward, in Great News for the World, p. 41, Jesus was a created being with “strength of character to right some of the most appalling wrongs of his time.” Christadelphians teach that Jesus had a sinful nature and he, too, needed salvation from sin, that he was not pre-existent and did not come into existence until he was born in Bethlehem. The Bible declares that Jesus was sinless. He “committed no sin” (1 Peter 2:22); “in him is no sin” (1 John 3:5); He “had no sin” (2 Corinthians 5:21); He was “tempted in every way… yet was without sin” (Hebrews 4:15). That Jesus was pre-existent is also evident from such passages as John 1, where He (the Word) was “in the beginning with God” (v. 2) and that all things that were created “were created through him” (v. 3) and that “he became flesh and dwelt among us” (v. 14). Denying that Jesus is the second Person of the Trinity is another universal characteristic of cults.
The second universally taught lie is that of salvation by works. The Christadelphians believe that faith in Christ is the beginning point, but salvation is by no means completed there. While they do claim to teach “salvation by grace,” that claim is buried beneath a landslide of demands for works righteousness. Salvation to the Christadelphians is a process, is not given at the point of faith in Christ, is dependent upon “belief in the covenants,” good works and baptism. Salvation, they believe, is the gift of God, but only bestowed on those whose works merit it. The Bible clearly teaches that “all our righteousness is as filthy rags” (Isaiah 64:6), that works cannot save us, and that no one can keep even the smallest part of the law. “For whoever shall keep the whole Law and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all” (James 2:10). But “Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, being made a curse for us…” (Galatians 3:10). The Law, works, and personal righteousness are powerless to save us. Only faith in Christ and His perfect sacrifice on the cross can save us (Galatians 2:16; Romans 3:28; John 3:16). We are saved by faith alone, in Christ alone. “For He has made Him who knew no sin, to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him” (2 Corinthians 5:21). If, as the Christadelphians teach, we must merit our salvation through our own efforts, then Christ died in vain (Galatians 2:21), and the free gift described in Ephesians 2:8-9 is not free at all.
Other unbiblical beliefs of the Christadelphians include the Holy Spirit is an impersonal force; man does not have an immortal soul; Satan is not a personal being, but merely a synonym for any adversary; death is unconsciousness or annihilation; and heaven and hell are myths. Rather than restoring true Christianity, the Christadelphians deny the basic doctrines clearly outlined in the Bible and, as such, are like all false religions – a lie from the father of lies, Satan, who “walks about like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour” (1 Peter 5:8).
gotquestions dot org Christadelphianism
Is this the reason why you accuse the Christadelphians, going on a text of “Got Questions” organisation which does not really explains why it is a sect or cult?
The article stars with “The Christadelphian sect” but does not give any reason why it would be a sect. It talks about our believes. It also starts of with thinking they themselves have the only truth. And why do you consider them to be rightly thinking and not being part of a cultist organisation or sect?
This article is than your impression of what a cult is? and why we re a cult?
This is also your interpretation and which means you are part of Got Questions Organisation?
Dear Marcus Ampe
Shalom, and love in Jesus.
We are not on this site to target you personally. We targets the false teachers who have led you into error.
Also the Pope read the Bible, and even quots from the scripture. But he can not accept what is written, and add to scripture to defend his dogmas.
This scripture expose your cult. Because you deny that Jesus the Messiah forgave sins. The Bible says only God can forgive sins.
Matthew 9:6
But I want you to know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins.” So he said to the paralyzed man, “Get up, take your mat and go home.”
(end of scriture).
Since the son of man (100 per cent human) had the autority to act like God, He was, is and will forever be God. God do not sin. God is not created. God is eternal. Jesus is 100 per cent man and 100 per cent God.
Truly we are all called to surrender to, and serve a uniq sinless saviour.
Look at the quote you yourself present and see that there is written that the son of man, who was called the son of God “has the authority”, i.e. has been given the right to tell people their sins are forgiven. It does not say that it is him who forgives them.
Strangely enough now you say yourself: “the son of man (100 per cent human)”
Also you say God is not created but seem to forget that Jesus was created and placed by God in the womb of the virgin.
Marcus,
What’s up with you? I feel like I’m dealing with someone totally illogical. You said you are a Christadelphian yet now you deny that you are a member of that cult when I exposed what you believe? Are you embarrassed that you believe such convoluted nonsense passed down from a Satanic leader?
I’m done with this discussion. If you truly wanted to debate that would be one thing, but all you want to do is play games. When the trumpet blasts and you find yourself left behind don’t say I never warned you.
Ok Marcus. You want to see a god of hate vs God of love? 9/11 vs Sodom and Gomorrah. Sodom and Gomorrah were wicked cities. They practiced homosexuality, polygamy, beastiality, and all sorts of other stuff. God gave them a chance to repent, and they did not. As a result, God punished them. 9/11 on the other hand, was a act of hatred against those who are not Muslim. It killed over 2000 people for not being Muslim. You tell me that Islam worships Elohim? I wouldn’t believe that if someone tried throwing me off a cliff. Islam is NOT a peaceful religion. Muhammed was a pedophile. Islam claims sexual purity. Islam teaches of 72 virgins awaiting a faithful Muslim after death. The Bible teaches of eternity with a God who loves us. I would really appreciate it if you did research about this incredibly violent religion or broke open a history book and read about Islam before making mind-boggling STUPID statements like, “Judaism and Islam worship the same God.” because if they did worship the same God, (Elohim) THEY WOULDN’T BE FIGHTING VIOLATION WARS ALL THE TIME!!!
Dear Jonah Being a Christian means being a follower of Jesus Christ. Christadelphians do listen to the words of Jeshua, the Kristos or Christ Messiah, who is according God Himself Jehovah god His beloved only begotten son. You seem to deny those words of the Most High God. God does not tell lies and told us He is omnipotent, knowing everything, cannot be seen by manor they would die, He can not be tempted nor sin and is an eternal Spirit, which means he is an extraterrestrial being without flesh and blood, having no beginning and no end, not born and not able to die.
Jesus was seen by many, was born, had to learn everything, at the end of his life still did not know a lot of things, even did not know when he would be coming back or who would be seated nest to him in heaven. Remember though Jesus was tempted many times, could sin but did not, this also means Jesus does not tell lies, so how do you explain he could not even say when he would come back?
Jesus never claimed to be God and very well knew he was lower than God to whom he could give back the Kingdom of God after some time. (He is not giving something back to himself when he is the god to Whom belongs everything already)
Christians should be those who believe what Jesus and what God say, and who are following up what they demanded from their followers.
In which way would Christadelphians not follow the demands of Christ?
Jonah I did not write I am no member of the Christadelphians, but I said I am no member of a cult. Perhaps you do not know what the juridical implications are of being a cult or being a leader in a cult.
Yesterday I had to laugh sour. About twenty years ago in Belgium I defended the Baptist Church in front of the Belgian Commission for cults and sects and now a member of that church accuses me to belong to a sect myself.
Looking at what the writers of this blog understands to be a sect I naturally should not be afraid because they do not seem to know the juridical implications of such accusation, though not finding any real proper presentation of whom the owner of this blog is and not presenting an addresses to reply officially shows that there might be a possible interest in not being open and honest, so that false accusations and unjust writings can be presented on the net without giving the other people to react officially.
Looking at the explanation of what is a cult, the writers on this blog consider heathen, atheists, Jews, Muslims (all groups of Mahommedanism and deviations like a.o. Druze, Yezidis, Mandeans, and Elamites), Hindus, Buddhist, Zoroastrians Yazdânis, Ahl-e Haqqs and those of shamanism, Native American religions, Austronesian and Australian Aboriginal traditions, Chinese folk religions, Shinto and many others cults and perhaps also sects because they all deny the deity of Jesus Christ. Strangely enough,they also consider those who follow up the task given up by Jeshua to preach and to give a warning for a works-based salvation as a cult. This naturally would make the Baptists again being part of a cult, because they do demand not only to become baptised but also to live according to the Wish of God following the commandments of God (= a work)
Marcus,
Why do you feel like you need to believe in God? According to your doctrine, you deny the immortality of the soul and you believe that when you die you will simply cease to exist. So what’s the point of this “god” you serve?
Psalm 90:10 tells us, “Our days may come to seventy years, or eighty, if our strength endures; yet the best of them are but trouble and sorrow, for they quickly pass, and we fly away.” I would assume you are past the half way point in your allotted days here on the planet.
I’m not intentionally trying to be harsh, but I believe the Lord showed me this about you: Outwardly, you pretend to show an unending, lifelong search for the truth yet you end up the puppet of a Satanic deceiver in one of the worst cult belief systems I have ever read (at least some cults strive for Heaven to be with God, albeit in an unbiblical way).
But at your very core is a HATRED of Jesus Christ. You openly and public defy Him, resist Him, mock Him, and absolutely refuse to obey Him and what He so simply tells us in His Word. You are not battling anyone on this blog, you are in a battle with the King of all kings and the Lord of all lords as you desire to usurp Him, His Word, and His Authority. Woe to you, O’ man!
You have said, ‘I am a god, I sit in the seat of the gods, in the heart of the seas’ (Ezekiel 28:2). You seek to recruit one-third of the earth’s population to join you in rebellion through your fruitless works, websites and writings. You are a narcissist and demand worship as God for being one of the few elites who claims to have found real truth through the doctrines of Satan.
No Marcus, you have not fooled anyone with your flowery words and convoluted interpretation of the Bible. But because of your pride, you are about to take a great fall and the agony that comes upon you will be self inflicted.
“For they being ignorant of God’s righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth” (Romans 10:3,4).
I am not going to spend much more time in this ludicrous becoming arguments which show how indoctrinated you are and not willing to be open for other thoughts but wanting to press your ideas as the only true ones which everybody should follow.
Our point of serving God is all about respect to the creator of the universe without expecting something in return. But we may look forward to the return of Jesus Christ, which we like him do not know when he would come back (though remember God knows everything). When we would be judged rightly to be allowed to enter the Kingdom of God, we have our hope on this Kingdom here on earth.
We do not hate Jesus and we show even more respect to him than all those who think Jesus as a human being would not be able to follow god His Will. We take it that Jesus really managed to do only God His Will and not his own will (like it is written in the Holy Scriptures but you do not want to believe).
We just give the whole credibility to this one man who gave his life for many, whilst you do not want to recognise that. We are the ones who believe Jesus really died for the sins of many and that God accepted his ransom offer.
Our love for Jesus goes so far that we do really believe everything he did say and believe in what he did and how he did it. Something you do not seem to do.
I noticed you often threw with unfunded accusations and tried to bring fear over me and other people who would come interested in what the Bible really says.
For me that is more a sign of hate to other thinkers but also to Jesus and in contradiction to Jesus his teaching, which we try to follow. In our love for Jesus we also take him as the only cornerstone of our community whilst you keep onto a human organisation with a hierarchy of man. If you find that more loving to Jesus than we who give him all honour than you have a weird idea about loving some one and about hating some one.
Marcus,
You said, “I am not going to spend much more time in this ludicrous becoming arguments…”
Good answer. There are a lot of Luciferian sites whose dark master’s would welcome you with open arms.
You are nothing more than Satan’s disinformation agent.
Disinformation is intentionally false or inaccurate information that is spread deliberately. It is an act of deception and false statements to convince someone of untruth. Disinformation should not be confused with misinformation, information that is unintentionally false.
Unlike traditional propaganda techniques designed to engage emotional support, disinformation is designed to manipulate the audience at the rational level by either discrediting conflicting information or supporting false conclusions. A common disinformation tactic is to mix some truth and observation with false conclusions and lies, or to reveal part of the truth while presenting it as the whole (a limited hangout).
Another technique of concealing facts, or censorship, is also used if the group can affect such control. When channels of information cannot be completely closed, they can be rendered useless by filling them with disinformation, effectively lowering their signal-to-noise ratio and discrediting the opposition by association with many easily disproved false claims.
Marcus, I’m not afraid to say it. To say Baptists are a cult because of following GOD’S EXAMPLE OF BAPTISM is stupid in the highest degree. No where, I repeat, NO WHERE does the Bible say to be baptized to be saved. Spell it out now.
N-O_W-H-E-R-E_!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Chad I only repeated the words of the writers of this blog. I myself do not belief such a stupidity and as I said in one of the responses I myself defended the Baptist Church in a case about sects and cults, before the Belgian Commission of sects.
but having yourself baptised demands an act; It first demands repentance for sins and that a commitment to Jehovah God and to the community one gets baptised in. This demands works, and that was what I pointed out that as James says faith without works is dead.
He said that because if you have faith in a God who supposedly changes lives, including mine, THAN ACT LIKE IT!!!! OTHERWISE, PEOPLE WILL NOT BELIEVE YOU!!! Think of it this way, if I campaigned against drunk driving and the use of marijuana, meth, cocain, etc. etc, and I drank and got behind the wheel of a car with heroin in my glove compartment, and the police pulled me over, and I was arrested and made national headlines, how many people are going to believe that I am truly against drug abuse? Here’s the obvious answer: NOBODY! See, if your works don’t back up what you say, than it’s dead. Ever hear the phrase,”Actions always speak louder than words”? “Faith without works” is the Bible’s version of that phrase. He’s not saying,”Work for salvation.”
Why do you think Jesus told so many parables explaining how people could loose their possibility to enter the Kingdom of God?
Naturally when nobody has to work to keep the salvation which is freely given to everybody, it will make it very easy for pastors because they have not to preach about the possible loss.But do you really believe that people can go with lying, stealing, fornication paedophilia, murdering, without receiving their penalty, when they do not repent? I am convinced people should work to behave themselves and to stay in good order and shall have to repent (= also a work) because otherwise they will loose their right to salvation.
In case you are a pastor do you really never warn your flock about the dangers of loosing the Kingdom of God? Do you really believe everybody who says he believes in Jesus or in God would enter the kingdom?
In case you are a member of a church, have you never seen the church excluding some one? Look at the Baptist Church how many people they have already disfellowshipped. In case no works are needed and everybody once baptised is saved, than that church puts itself higher than Jesus because it judges people harder than Jesus, whom you consider God, so they consider them higher than God or allowed to judge instead of God.
In case you are a pastor and would have brought judgement over some one else, like you do with me for example, than you have placed yourself above God. Do you think though you can not forgive sins you have the right to condemn people?
I and the Christadelphians do believe Jesus is given the right to judge people and also to forgive people. He with his death (remember God can not die) washed our sins away. Grace was given to everybody, but now we have received it we must accept it (a work) and have to live according it, like you yourself rightly told (but seem to have forgotten that is a work as well). We sincerely believe that everybody also can lose the possibility to enter the Kingdom of God, even pastors, priests, bishops and popes. No body is safe for the eyes of god, Who knows the heart and demands obeisance (= work).
Chad I do not know why you shout: “Than act like it!” etc.! did you once more wanted to give your readers a false idea and frighten me, accusing me that I would not be acting like a Christian should do?
Dear Marcus Ampe
Shalom, and love in Jesus.
You wrote:
“Than act like it!” etc.! did you once more wanted to give your readers a false idea and frighten me, accusing me that I would not be acting like a Christian should do?
My reply:
As the erditor of this blog, I have been patient with you. Multiple scriptures have been presented to you, and exposed that you live in error and denial.
1 John 5:20
We know also that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true. And we are in him who is true by being in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.
Rejecting the diety of Jesus, you reject salvation. Your “Christ” is a false Christ.
The true Jesus warned us about copy-cats.
Matthew 24:24
For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect
As I have said once, and now will repeat. Its pointless to continue this debate. We are just waisting our time. I see no sign of repentance, so please leave this blogg.
The Bible quote of the apostle John you give is not written in any bible translation like you quote it. In all the versions we do have it is talking about two different entities: 1. god the Father and 2. the only begotten son of God.
“For the Father loveth the Son, and showeth him all things that himself doeth: and greater works than these will he show him, that ye may marvel.” (John 5:20 ASV)
OK, when you can show me where in the Bible it clearly says that you can lose salvation, you come here and show me and Ivar both and we will repent. You can’t do it because the Bible never says that.
Listen to the parables of Christ and see about what he is talking: the difficulty to be able to enter the Kingdom of God, and how people can loose the opportunity to enter it.
Do you really think, those persons who are baptised, but keep drinking too much, keep hurting people or even kill people would be allowed to enter the kingdom of God?
Dear Christadelphians
Shalom, and love in Jesus.
Please respect that I told you do leave this site. We have had a round on your false doctrines, where you try to trick people to deny that Jesus is God. Not repentable cults who presetn false Christs will not be entertained on this site. Please leave.
Perhaps you ask a Christadelphian brother but not yet us, to leave your site. But be sure we would not come back.
Revelation 22:19