Some Muslims supposed to have converted to faith in “Jesus”, still use the word “allah” for God, and ”Isa” for Jesus. A doctrinal clarification is needed.
Most of the Christian media have been silent in regards to new “Muslim-friendly Bibles”. But one American media has sounded the alarm about the corrupt modern “bible translations”.
This is what has been reported:
It includes the controversial development is the removal of any references to God as “Father,” to Jesus as the “Son” or “the Son of God.” One example of such a change can be seen in an Arabic version of the Gospel of Matthew produced and promoted by Frontiers and SIL. It changes Matthew 28:19 from this:
“baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit”
to this:
“cleanse them by water in the name of Allah, his Messiah and his Holy Spirit.”
A large number of such Muslim-sensitive translations already are published and well-circulated in several Muslim-majority nations such as Bangladesh, Indonesia and Malaysia.
According to Joshua Lingel of i2 Ministries,
“Even more dramatic a change is the Arabic and Bangla (Bangladesh) translations. In Arabic, Bible translations err by translating ‘Father’ as ‘Lord.’ ‘Guardian.’ ‘Most High’ and ‘God.” In Bangla, ‘Son of God’ is mistranslated ‘Messiah of God’ consistent with the Quran’s Isa al-Masih (Jesus the Messiah), which references the merely human Jesus.”
Source: Wnd.com
My comment:
The word “god” could mean anything and everything. So do the word ‘allah”, an Arabic word for “god”.
1,2 billion Muslims use the singular word “allah” for “god”. This word has its origin in pre-Islamic Saudi Arabia as the expression of the Arabian “moon god”.
Now, the word “allah” has entered into claimed to be “Christian” bibles. Under the pretext that ‘allah” is the unified Arabian word for God. Such Bibles has been made to make it easier for Arabs, in particular Muslims, to understand who “god” is.
Not true.
The word “allah” is singular. The Hebraic word “Elohim” is plural. Even linguistic, these “gods” are not the same deity.
When you mix “allah” with the Arabian word for the Messiah, “Esa” or “Isa”, the falsehood becomes more obvious. Because “Esa” is a created being, and has never been divine. He is not the Son of God, but a prophet.
Arab Christians tries to explain to Arabs, that using the word “allah” for God, must lead to an understanding of this “god” to be the God of the Hebrews, who has a begotten Son.
The truth is that the Pre-Islamic Arab cultures never had a unified word for “god”. The first Christian Church in Arabia, was the Coptic Church in Egypt, established 500 years before the birth of Muhammed. The Coptic word for God, is “papnoute”. Or simply “noute”. The Berber community in Libya, used the word “Amanai” for God.
In ancient Yemen, 700 B.C, the moon-god was named Almaqah. A stone tablet found, is mentioning five South Arabian “gods”. So “allah” must have entered this area later, as “the god”. A New Age “god”. Neither the God of the Hebrews, nor the ancient “god” of the Arabs. The Arabs were forced into submission, and a Pro-Islamic, Pan-Arabic use of the word “allah”.
There were no unified Arabian use of a Word for “God”, prior to the Islamic area, that started 620 A.D. It looks like it was Islam that forcefully united Arab merchants, Arab tribal people and Assyrians around the use of “allah”. By the use of the sword.
Do not accept this modern falsehood, a bid to make “peace” with Arabs in the name of “allah”.
Written by Ivar
ivarfjeld.com 
Thank you…I am sure this information will be of help to many who will adhere to truth. Those who won’t will do as they normally do..bicker and nit-pic….but I do thank you for this information I certainly can use it.
Dear Andrea
Shalom.
it might look like a noble idea, that Muhammad came and took over the word “allah’, and that the pre-Islamic use of this word was inline with the Bible. Remember that the Bible had been available for 500 years in the New Testament area, before the birth of this false Arab prophet.
The Copts in Egypt represented the first Christian revival in the Arab world, a revival that took place over many generation in the pre-Islamic area. The Copts knew about the “moon god” of the Saudis, and obviously never used “allah” for God. Neither before the coming of Muhammed, nor after.
The pre-Islamic use of the word “allah” had nothing to do with God of the Bible. It was a word to express the pagan “moon god”. To use this word, is to use the words of the pagans, and mix it into claimed to be Christianity. The Arabs have never been unified in the use of “allah”. And we should not promote such unification today.
The Arabs have to repent from their antisemitism and paganism, and embrace Elohim Israel. That would be a sign of a true conversion. Than they would use a plural word for God, that includes a begotten Son, the Messiah. This will renounce Islam as falsehood.
This information is to show people exactly what you are talking about. There is so much lies all thru the years and it’s been accepted as well as bled into the norm, for people to even see what is written in black and white will be like reading Novel and it will captivate those who are hungry for the truth and irritate those who are die-hard defenders of the lies as well as the ‘pews’ they chose to spread in from week to week whether it be seated are bending over with head down bowing before the god of their choice.
I just printed off a couple of copies of the past few days of posts and fully intend to do the same with this. These facts needs to get out as much as possible. Thank you.But with my health slowing me down lately I’m doing more in one on one and less in volume depending on the days (smile) as to which gets to feed the mail box!
Shalom
Pure blasphemous bible indeed something they don’t understand is that the bible warn such kind of erroneous translations, Revelations state it For I testify unto every man
that heareth the words of the
prophecy of this book, If any
man shall add unto these
things, God shall add unto him
the plagues that are written in
this book, they need to repent or face the wrath of God
Reblogged this on Tiva82's Blog.
Reblogged this on A Mom Looking Up.
Reblogged this on Oyia Brown.
Reblogged this on Talitha's Praathuis.
I know about this ‘bible version’: ‘Al Kitab ul Shariif’.
And I am not happy with it. At all.
They have changed it/customized it, to make it more ‘muslim friendly’. They have tried to tone down everything offensive. Like the Son…!
But even though their intentions may have been ‘good’, you can never add to, or subtract from the Word of God in the way that they have done!
However, your persistance in claiming that the use of ‘allah’ in arabic bibles is a modern invention. This is not true.
Regular, unaltered bible translations have been around for hundreds of years – using the arabic epithet for God.
(Please talk to your arab pastor friend.)
A basic search on Wikipedia:
“One of the oldest Arabic bibles was discovered in the 19th century at Saint Catherine’s Monastery, Mount Sinai. The manuscript called Mt. Sinai Arabic Codex 151, was created in AD 867. It includes the biblical text, marginal comments, lectionary notes, and glosses, as found in the manuscript.[1]
Most Arabic translations have translated Yahweh (יהוה), the Hebrew name of God (LORD or Jehovah in English / Kyrios in Greek), as Allāh or Rabb.”
“The word “allah” is singular. The Hebraic word “Elohim” is plural.”
And “God/Gud/Dio” etc is also in singular. And…?
Dear Ingela
Shalom.
You wrote:
“The word “allah” is singular. The Hebraic word “Elohim” is plural.”
And “God/Gud/Dio” etc is also in singular. And…?
My reply:
Many people claim to now “god”. Still, they do not know God at all. There is only one God. Elohim Israel.
In Norway, I have to ask people, who claim to know “gud” (Norwegian for God”).
Which God do you believe in?
Sometimes I have to guide “Christians” to read Genesis, and ask them to explain to me who this Creator “us-God” is. And ask if the God who appeared to Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, Josva, David, Daniel and Ezekiel is a “Gud” different than the Messiah who later walked in flesh in Jerusalem?
Non of these Jewish men of God, knew “allah”, whenever he must appeared in Mecca for the first time. After this “god” appeared as “allah the moon-god”,no followers of Elohim would accept this falsehood.
Several Bishops in the Lutheran state Church of Norway, claim the “Gud” of the Old testament is built on mythology, and that only “Jesus” in the New Testament has explained who “god” is.
This is a horrible deception, and a fruit of 1.500 years with deceptive Catholic Replacement theology. So the multitudes of Norwegians follow their own Norwegian New Age “Gud”, presented to us in the name of “Jesus”.
Inside Israel, there are a lot of Israelis who claim to know “God”. Many of them have traveled to India, and feel they have found “it”. Being Israeli, you might be as deceived as the rest of the World.
Do not forget, that the last and final global deception will be built on the deceptive compromise, that we all believe in “god”. A “god” of love, who have appeared in many ways and forms.
The Whore of Babylon will wear many guises but “she” will never affirm the word of God because the Scriptures expose Satan, and it also exposes his Antichrist.for the imposter he is. The deception will be very clever. Jesus said that it would fool even the elect, if that were possible. Be very, very wary of anything that distorts or alters the word of God. Much of evangelicalism has embraced The Message (Rick Warren promotes it). Supposedly a “translation”–it is anything but. It is heavily infected with Eugene Peterson’s Neo-orthodoxy, which itself takes a casual view of Scripture.
thanks for this informative post!
Reblogged this on oogenhand and commented:
A solid knowledge of Arabic should be available to anyone.
Dear Ivar,
shalom to you.
I believe you and I are still talking past each other. Or, at least I understand you, but you seem to have completely misunderstood me.
That’s a shame.
If you only could understand that I am a sister.
I have never argued with you about many people claiming to believe in God – yes, even christians – even evangelicals – and when you examine their beliefs you soon realize that the god they believe in is nor the God of the Bible.
I am totally with you on that.
I have apprecciated you exposing the catholic ‘church’ for the corrupt babylonian system it really is.
But that is not all. We have Babylon represented in almost all churches, across the globe. Here i Sweden I am sad to say it’s the same. Like Solomon. He started out right, but ended up in tragic idolatry…
Tragically this falling away from the truth has gained ground (a litle leaven…) even among arab evangelicals. If the western churches are more and more influenced bu palestinian thinking – so all the more reason for arab, and particularly palestinian, christians to embrace replacement theology.
But just as there are ‘grass-root’ believers in our countries, who realize the uniqueness of Israel and the jewish people in God’s salvation story – so there are arab believer who do.
This may be a little bit off topic, because we were discussing the use of the arabic epithet ‘allah’ for God. However, I think you have also confused the subject, by talking about ‘different views of God’. And that is a whole other topic.
I have made it clear to you that I agree with you on the spirit,or deity of Islam being a ‘moon god’ spirit. This is so evident when you look at how this spirit is affecting the whole region. It is very phallic in nature: meaning is represents a religion of sex and violence. (But what part of the world is not affected by that spirit?!)
I have often thought that the spirit of Islam is the ‘male version’, and catholicism and all Mary worshipers is the ‘female version’ of the same idol/spirit. The spirits of Baal and Astarte are still very much at work today! Yes, even in Scandinavia, so we can not point fingers.
I hope you see I am on the same page as you.
I just want to ask you to talk to and arab believer when it comes to the use of the arabic word for God.
As it is, you have been side treating arab christians. And that is all I wish to correct you on.
I am not here to quarrel, or to win an argument.
I wish to win a brother.
sincerely in Jesus Christ,
and in the God of Abraham, Isaac and Israel –
the One true God.
Dear Ingela
Shalom.
What is wrong in avoiding the use of the word “allah” for “God”?
In English the word “god” is not exclusive, but universal. This word can include anything and everything.
I am able to pronounce the word Elohim. It is not Norwegian, but it is specific and exclusive. It is easy to explain the nature and character of the Creator, when we use this Hebrew Word.
The living Elohim of Israel is specific, and exclusive.
Exodus 20:
Then God spoke all these words: (Amplified Bible)
2 I am the Lord your God, Who has brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
3 You shall have no other gods before or besides Me.
Why should we use “allah”, when the origin of this word, is an expression of the saudi “moon-god”. Who is a singular “god”, who do not have a co-creator, a begotten Son?
When this word is used by 1,2 billion Muslims, to express the “god” of the Koran?
A book that reject that Elohim has a begotten Son?
In my opinion, the use of “allah” is a violation of the first commandment.
Correction: I meant to say “influenced by palestinian-IST thinking”.
I understand that is your opinion, Ivar.
All I am asking is: ask the opinion of arab believers.
How come you, with limited knowledge and experience of the Arab World, the arab language, and arab evangelical christianity, still feel you are an authority on the subject, and can just trample over your arab brothers and sisters?
There have been arab evangelical, theological seminars, and pastoral educations around in the Middle East for centuries.
You claim authoritatively that they all don’t know what they are talking obout, or what they believe in?!
Many of these precious brethren have given their lives for Christ!!!
And yet, just because they don’t say ‘Elohim’, but instead use their own language – you totally disregard them all.
We don’t use ‘Elohim’ in Swedish either. We use the epithet/name/word for God in our own language. And so do all other people/language groups.
And if you ask an arab believer which God/Allah he believes in, then he can explain that he bilieves in the God of the Bible: Elohim/YHVH/Adonai, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob etc.
They have the same creed of faith as you and I.
Please don’t confuse the use of the arabic language with something else. There is a distinction in linguistics and in doctrin.
I have found that many western christians, especially in the States, find it easier and more comfortable to simpy say: ‘Allah is a desert demon’. In my opinion this exposes their ignorance. What they are saying is in effect: ‘God is a demon’!!
For such an outrageous statement, you must, must, elaborate on defining what God/Allah you are referring to.
They don’t want to educate themselves about the rest of the world, but prefer to just put things in boxes. No matter wat the reality looks like.
As a journalist, you must know what I’m talking about.
I do wish you would read through all my comments thoughtfully, and not just charge for anoter counter attack.
And please, contact that arab pastor.
Sincerely.
Ingela
Shalom.
Arab Christians are no final authority in matters related to faith. The Word of God is.
“allah” can not save anyone. Because he has no begotten Son.
I think we should close our debate on this topic. Because we seem to get nowhere. We simply do not agree.
In the Bible ‘Allah/God’ HAS got a begotten son! And His name is Yesua alMasiih.
(But the god of the Quran has no Son. That is doctione – not linguistics.)
It is not you and I that don’t agree. In that case I would just leave it.
I am sorry you won’t take arab believers into respect.
I guess you see yourself as the final authority?
Thank you still for being patient and respectful enough to talk to me.
I just pray you would listen too.
At least to arab believes. (Never mind me.)
May the Lord bless you in your ministry.
Ingela.
Shalom.
Lets leave it like this. I end this conversation with this Bible verse:
Matthew 24:4-5
4 Jesus answered: ‘Watch out that no one deceives you. 5 For many will come in my name, claiming, “I am the Messiah,” and will deceive many.
There are many copies of “Jesus” around. So we better be careful.
I will never permit anyone to minister on this blog, using “allah” as the name of Father God in Heaven. Neither will I enter any fellowship, and bless those who do so.
be careful….for when we ‘use the mark >/< to separate yet it binds words it generally means one and the same….to the majority of hearers..as in Allah/ and who ever puts the name after that/ signs…in all that I have read between this discussion it seems to boil down to the basic fact the babes in Christ are the precious ones who will be and can be led astray in all innocence of their own hearts..it will be hard for them to think otherwise but leaning on The Holy Spirit to direct them in all truth as Jesus has instructed the to do so, I fully trust Him, those who seek Him with all their hearts will not be amidst the ones who seek after the strange music. True it is sad there will be some who will fall away by these false leaders, and they too will receive their rewards! I enjoyed the discussion of this Post as it got thru with the Truth…!
Ivar, please, contact the arab pastor.
I will say no more.
grace and peace
Ingela
Shalom.
I have sent an email to the Arab Christian Zionist pastor. I will let all he readers know his reply.
Apprecciate it, Ivar.
Looking forward to that.
sincerely,
Dear all readers.
Shalom, and love in Jesus.
I have got a personal advice, from an Arab Christian Zionist pastor, whom I trust.
He has guided me to accept the linguistic word “allah” as – God – in the Arabian language. But as the English word “god” needs to be clarified further in regards to doctrines, also “allah” needs to be clarified.
So Ingela was right, and I need to do some changes in my language related to this Arabian word. I do need to apologize to her, and do some changes in the concerned article.
When we brand “allah” as a desert demon, we need to underline that it is “allah of the Koran” we talk about. “allah” as he is presented by Islam, is not God of the Bible. And the “allah” of the pre-Islamic age, was used as a word to explain the “moon god” of Mecca.
Dear Ivar.
I don’t agree. I have earlier opposed to a Muslim Mission for using “allah” instead of “Father or Lord” and “Isa” instead of “Jesus”. You were right in the first place. Don’t let an Arabic Christian guide you. He naturally wil tell you, that “allah” is equal to “God.”
Dear Denmark speaking.
Shalom, and love in Jesus.
This is not an Arab website, but a site that use English. I will not ban anyone who use the word ‘God”. But I will request this person to explain who this “God” is. This site is made to honor the Messiah, as He is explained to us in the Bible.
I will not ban anyone using the name of “Jesus”, still this word not being a Hebrew Word. But sometimes, there is a need to find out who this person feels “Jesus” is. Because cults of different kinds, also use the name of “Jesus”.
Like: The “Jesus” of Rome is not the Jewish Messiah, presented to us in the Bible.
The name of “allah” will still not be permitted on this website. But we have to acknowledge that when Arab Christians speaks to Arabs, they will have a debate over who “allah” is. There will be no Arabs using Arab language on this site, so their doctrinal challenge is only a matter of academic interest, and not a practical issue for non-Arabs.
Dear Ivar.
Please don’t change you article. It isn’ about your web-site. It is about the Truth.
Dear all readers.
Shalom.
After reflecting on this issue, I have done some small changes to this article. The top line has been changed, also a few sentences inside the article:
1. Some Muslims supposed to have converted to faith in “Jesus”, still use the word “allah” for God, and ”Isa” for Jesus. A doctrinal clarification is needed.
2. The word “god” could mean anything and everything. So do the word ‘allah”, an Arabic word for “god”.
3. Arab Christians tries to explain to Arabs, that using the word “allah” for God, must lead to an understanding of this “god” to be the God of the Hebrews, who has a begotten Son.
Translating “god” to “allah” is a mis-translating – linguistic or not. There exist only One God – God of the Bible, God the Father, God the Creater, God the Almighty and God the Lord. Allah isn’t a god. He is an idol, and maybe satan himself. It is very essential to remark that issue.
Dear Denmark speaking
Shalom, and love in Jesus.
“God” did not appear to the Danish people, and said ” I am God”. So the Danes had to get the message translated. I believe in God of the Bible, God the Father, God the Creator, God the Almighty and God the Lord. All One God. And if Arab Christians do the same, using their own Arabic language, which I can not understand, I am happy.
All true Christians rejects “allah of the Koran”, and “allah the moon-god”. Also Arab Christians, who agree with the above message.
Dear Ivar.
It really is a great deception of Satan. The Arabs have no words for God of the Bible and His Son Jesus. The true solution is: They have to create some. And I don’t think it would be very dificult. What about using the Hebrew vords. They are close to Arabic.
Don’t let Satan fool you, Ivar.
You are too precious in Gods eyes for that.
Dear Denmark speaking
Shalom.
Please relax. I do not use the word “allah”, and I would never use it, to explain who God is. Not in any conversation with Jews and Christians, nor with any non-Arabic person. But If i ever face an Arab saying “praise Jesus”, the begotten Son of “allah”, I surely need to pay attention. And so should you.
The Danes do not use the Hebrew words for “God” and “Jesus”. And they do not have to do so to get saved. But they do have to recognize that God is God of the Hebrews, and that the Messiah is a Jew. Salvation is of the Jews.
Why should I relax I care for you Ivar It is not, that you would use the word “Allah” for God. It is that the Arabic Christians use this Word,. It borders me a lot – it is a deception.
It all come out in the ‘wash’ don’t it….just have to wait for ‘Wash Day (smile)
Halleluia! Thank you Ivar.
I appreciate your humility and integrity – and your patience with me. 🙂
(This was also the first impression I got of you when listening to your personal testimony.)
Thank God for this pastor!
(Pleas send him my regards and esteem.)
I say amen to all of the above.
With much love and brotherly/sisterly love in Christ
Brother Ivar,
on behalf of our [true] arab brothers and sisters, I thank you!
(Not all who call themseles ‘christian’ in the Middle East are true believers. The name of Christ has been misrepresented there, as it has in so many other places. And great atrocities have been done by so called ‘christian militia’. This can never be justified by the Bible. So, even the word ‘christian’ needs clarification.)
Even though arab muslims and christians all use the name/epithet ‘Allah’ for God, and aven though they all claim to be talking about the Creator, and of the God of Abraham, a clarification is needed.
Christians refer to God as the God of the Bible, of course, and as the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. The lie of Islam is that God is the God of Abraham, Ishmael and Muhammed.
When the Quran relates the story of Abraham (nearly) sacrificing his son – it says that it was Ishmael, and not Isaac!
And this is where the two roads part.
One of the greatest creeds in Islam is that ‘God does not beget, nor does he have a son – that God has no equal’. This mantra is then repeated endlessly on funerals, and especially – on ‘Leylat al Qadr’ – the spooky, all night celebration when mosques drone these words all through the night. (You can almost hear the demonic voices joining in that chorus.)
If ever there was a satanic ‘designer religion’, this is it!
Islam is particularly geared at denying every biblical truth about the Son of God, and about the crucifixion and resurrection of our Saviour. Islam offers no true hope of salvation.
It’s a religion of falsehood and death.
(However, God in his mercy loves to save muslims through his Son anyway! Just as He loves to save all other lost heathens. Praise the Lord! And many have been brought from darkness and lies into the light and truth of the Gospel.)
The ‘Jesus’ presented in the Qur’an is not a son of God, but ‘the son of Mary’. Thus, the quranic version of Jesus is in reality the same as the catholic ‘mother goddess’ version. And I reckon this is why they all get along fairly well…
The use of the name ‘Esa or ‘Isa also needs clarification, just as with the name of Allah/God/god. It is true that in the Qur’an, and in the arabic language the name for ‘Jesus’ is ‘Esa, or ‘Isa.
Arab christians and arab Bibles however, use the name of Yesu’a – from the hebrew Yeshu’a.
So for arab christians it is a bit easier to distinguish which ‘Jesus’ you are referring to, based upon the use of the two different names: The quranic ‘Isa is not the son of God – the Yesu’a of the Bible, is.
However, we also need to be aware thet in other languages, like turkish for example, christians also use the name ‘Isa. So then, just as in the case of ‘Allah’, we can not straight off say that ‘Isa is an impostor. We always need to clarify what we are talking about.
Shalom and salaam to all who love the Son.
“All true Christians reject “allah of the Koran”, and “allah the moon-god”. Also Arab Christians, who agree with the above message.”
Amen, absolutely true, Ivar!
Dear Ingela.
When you entered, there suddenly became a lot of cofusions about names. So please stop it.
Denmark,
there used to be a confusion about names – now it it settled.
Ivar has understood it perfectly, and can separate between linguistics and doctrine – as we must do in all other circumstances.
We have a Swedish expression: ‘åsikt utan insikt’.
(Having an opinion without having the proper knowledge or understanding.)
For myself, I am finished with the subject. But since you are on my case to ‘stop it’, I must ask:
How much experience do you have of the Middle East?
How well do you you know Arabic?
Have you ever read the Arabic Bible?
Do you have any arab believer friends at all?
Dear Ingela.
Your points are well known in Denmark too, but not among true Christian believers. Knowledge isn’t essential for decerning. Reading the Bible is essential.
Kære Ingela.
Jeg har oversat artikler af Ivar til Dansk i omkring 4 år.
Du kan finde dem ved at klikke på “Denmarks speaking”
Må Guds fred, som overgår al forstand, bevare jeres hjerter og tanker i Kristus Jesus.
Israel og Endetiden.
Dear Denmark Speaking.
Shalom.
You wrote:
Jeg har oversat artikler af Ivar til Dansk i omkring 4 år.
Du kan finde dem ved at klikke på “Denmarks speaking”
Translated from Danish to English:
I have translated articles by Ivar to Danish for about 4 years.
You can find them by clicking on “Denmark speaking”
My comment:
My remarks to your message to Ingela, is not about the linguistic of your message, but of its true content.
I have not asked you to “translate” my articles. Anyone can do this. I can not stop them, neither do I desire to stop them. Re-bloggers do not need my approval, nor are they authorized by me.
Around 10 people are re-blogging articles from News That Matters, on a regular basis. I guess and hope they read this blogg almost every day. Most of them are unknown to me, and I do not have to agree with their doctrines. I do not have any private email conversations with the re-bloggers. I do not desire any off-blogg debate about their websites and doctrines.
I write articles, and reply to comments on News That Matters, of my own choice. No one needs to agree with me. But as long as Jesus the Messiah is happy with my wordings, I do not need to worry.
News That Matters is not a new Church, or a “religious community”. This is a completely free online society, made for the purpose of exposing fake and falsehood. And it should remain so.
Tank you, Denmark.
You are right – the Bible is our first authority for discernment.
However, sometimes simply a lack of information can lead to misunderstandings.
In this case the missing information was: that arab christians use the word Allah for God – and it does NOT imply that they worship the god of Islam.
Now we can thank our arab pastor friend for setting that straight.
I have visited this site for a couple of years now, and I have been happy to see how Ivar, as a relatively ‘new’ believer has so much discernment. (Sorry for talking about you in third person, Ivar.)
There was just one detail that I felt needed to be adressed. and that was a linguistic misunderstanding, more than anything. He has rightly discerned the true spirit beind the god of the Quran – yes, Baal is still ‘alive and kicking’.
But the arabic word for god/God is not exclusive to muslims. So it then becomes an issue of clarifying doctrine.
Arab believers in Jesus Christ do not worship a moon god!
You as a translator should apprecciate the linguistics. 🙂
(Gud välsigne dig i din uppgift. Vi får alla hjälpas åt i Kroppen, att vaka och varna, så att det blir till ömsesidig uppbyggelse. )
Shalom/salaam
I know, that Arabic Christians use the word “Allah” for God. But it is a misconception, which have to be corrected.
Greetings with this Scripture: “The peace of God, which transcends all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.” Phillip 4:7.
Dear Denmark speaking and Ingela
Shalom.
Since I have not been ministering to any Arab, the topic of the word of “god” in Arabic has never been one of my concerns. Nor have it been raised as an issue. But I have always rebuked Islam as a false religion.
Today, I thank Ingela for bringing up this topic for debate. It has surely become an interesting topic.
Being a minister in Norway and in India, I encounter a lot of people. If I tell a person “God bless you”, he will take it in a very different sense, depending on his or her background.
A secular Norwegian will take me for a Christian, and might be very offended. A Hindu will be very happy, since he wants to be blessed by “god”. If I tell a Hindu: ” May Jesus bless you”, he will again be very happy. Because a “Hindu” desire to be blessed by all “gods”.
If I tell a Christian in Denmark: “May “allah” of the Bible bless you”, he will surely be offended. That person has most likely never heard a statement like this, sounding like syncretism, a fruit of “Chrislam”. Naturally, I will never utter such words. Because I am not an Arab, nor do I speak Arabic.
We need to be careful not misguiding people. A Hindu needs to be told that there are no other God (s) than Jesus, and that only Jesus died for your sins. Only Jesus can save. No compromise possible on this issue. This is surely a controversial statement among Hindus, that will lead to persecution and disagreements. Even the majority of Jews will take offense of such a statement. But for different reasons, claiming “Jesus” not being the Messiah. But waiting for the true Messiah to appear.
Among Hindu converts, the name they use for the Messiah is “Yesu Mezi”. Indians at large, understand this Messiah to be different from the “Anglican version” of “The Messiah”, brought to them by the Colonial British power. It is strange for a Hindu to meet a fellow Indian, born into Hinduism, saying there is no God but Yesu Mezi. When they pick up a Bible in Hindi, they will discover the truth.
Not all Christians will understand what a Hindu convert explain to other Hindus. Neither will the majority of us understand what an Arab convert explains to other Arabs.
This is absolutely spot on, Ivar!
I would never use ‘Allah’ in Swedish. Nor would I use ‘Theos’ – or even ‘Elohim’ [except for doctrinal discussions]. I say ‘Gud’.
And, as you say Ivar, even there we are not safe – because there are so many misconceptions around (sadly, even within our churches).
In Arabic, we consequently use ‘Allah’, whether speaking to muslims, traditional christians or druze. They all have vastly different concepts of who God is.
It is the Gospel of Jesus Christ that explains who God is.
And all of Scripture, of course – once people begin to read it.
Thank you Ivar, for going so many ’rounds’ with me, and not walking away. We have discussed this topic enough for now, I think.
May God [clarification needed?] bless you in this ministry, and in the rest of life.
Shalom/ salaam
New winds are blowing here. So I will retire.
“The peace of God, which transcends all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.” Phillip 4:7.
Dear Ivarfjeld, according to the Bible, the Word of God, there is only One God, and that is the heavenly Father of Jesus. Jesus is the son of God, not God.
Ivar – I had much more respect to your opinion until this article and discussion. The lack of your knowledge of biblical origins and linguistics resulted in an immature conclusion, and to much shame even after the modification still remains so. See if God leads you to remove this post.
Ingela – thank you for standing up for the Arab believers. I am a Jew who believes in Christ and married to an Arab believer, living in Nazareth, Israel.
God in Aramaic is ‘Alaha’. This was the word that most likely Jesus used, even though we cannot say for sure. In either case, I don’t see why Ivar and these folks do not discredit the NT for using ‘Theos’ instead of Elohim??? After all Theos was used for pagan gods too. Ivar and the people in this discussion lack respect, understanding and knowledge of the Arabic language and Arab believers. When you see someone say “knowledge is not essential for discerning”, it is best to walk away and never come back for that is the key sentence in mindless religions and fanatic Islamism. I’m writing this reply not for them but mainly to thank you for standing up.
Dear Sergio
Shalom, and love in Jesus.
You wrote:
Ivar – I had much more respect to your opinion until this article and discussion.
My reply:
I am sorry for disappointing you. In fact, I am a little bit surprised. Because I have taken a much more soft approach towards the issue of the word ‘God” in Arabic than before. There are also faithful readers of this blog who are disappointed for the opposite reason. They want me to continue in the same manners as before.
Please have mercy on a Norwegian, who do not speak Arabic. Still I do know a lot about Biblical history, and also about the history and massive crimes of Islam. Not all Arabs are Muslims. There are surely Arabs who love Jews. But the Arab origin of a World religion that has deceived 1,2 billion people living on the face of the Earth today, should gives us reason to be on our guards. Also in regards to the use of the word “allah”.
This word have surely been tainted and misused. But we who are not Arabs, should not be blamed for the misuse and massive skepticism towards any use of this word at all, to explain the nature and quality of God of the Bible.
Dear Sergio,
tank you for your encouraging lines. How lovely to receive greetings from Nazareth!
I would never have debated only for my own sake. Many times it’s better, as you say, to walk away.
(I think the Bible has someting to say about those who despice knowledge.)
But this time I felt it was important to continue for two reasons:
* One, for our beautiful Arab brothers and sisters sake. Misunderstandings about the use of the Arabic name for God are both unnecessary and hurtful.
* And two, for my brother Ivar.
I appreciate how he loves the Lord, loves the Jews and loves the Truth. I have appreciated his work here (with one little exception), and his articles have helped me see even more clearly the horrors of the catholic death cult.
We all have, if not logs, then at least specks of dust in our eyes. And we need to help each other see clearly.
Ivar’s blog has been a blessing, even here in Sweden, because he speaks where most others are quiet.
And now, that he as been humble enough to accept correction from a ‘stranger’ (and a woman at that!), my respect for him increases.
[This is one of the few times I have actually talked to a Jew – and a believer at that! Lovely.
If only you knew the love the Lord has put in my heart for your people and your Nation.
Like I said, I have lived in the Arab Middle East for a number of years. And I already have a love for Arabs, and their beautiful language. But by just reading the Scriptures, God has also filled me with such a love for the Jews.
If ever my dream of visiting Israel comes true, it would be great to meet you and your wife!]
Shalom/Salaam
Ivar,
it isn’t easy to please everyone.
And I know that is not your goal, anyway.
I have very little knowledge about, for example, India.
I would need someone with insight and experience to help me.
God have mercy on us all. We are all fragile jars of clay. But hopefully the Light can shine through.
Love in Christ
Dear Ingela
Shalom.
Many of us who have never ministered to Arabs, have believed it would be close to impossible to be a committed Zionist in the Arab World. My best guess is that Arabs who love Yeshua and Israel, is a part of an underground movement. They always run the risk of being the next dead body laying slain in the streets.
Inside Israel, Arab Christians at lest have one safe location, where they will not be martyred. At least not by Jews or fellow Christians.
You are right, Ivar.
Sadly, because of politics, and tensions, many [if not most?], Arab Christians are strongly influenced by ‘palestinianist’ views. As I have been myself. I have for example read Colin Chapmans book ‘Whose Promised Land?’. Well, that for me was a novel idea!
I admit I was led astray into a form of replacement theology myself, even though I never stopped ‘blessing’ Israel.
(When Israeli bomberplanes used to fly over our heads, I would secretly lift up my hands and say ‘God, bless Israel’.)
It was only a after returning to my homecountry, that I, through reading the Bible, started discovering that some of what I had been told simply did’t fly with the Bible.
I do bless Israel, but I cannot bless everything they do.
And I do have an understanding for the plight of the Palestinian refugees – a people that have no real ‘home’ anywhere, and who are betrayed by their own bickering representatives…
I think I may have a better understanding of the complexities of the region than some, who have never lived there, but who still have their pat opinions put in boxes. (Now, I don’t mean you , Ivar!)
As you say, there is a grass root ‘movement’ even among Arab believers – as it is in Sweden too – where the ‘little people’ discover the truth, and an appreciation for the Jewish people as the people of God’s promises to the fathers.
This growing understanding, I believe, will chrystallize more and more as time goes by – parallelled by a growing antizionism.
We all will be more or less forced to pick our allegiances.
Time will tell.
Dear Ingela
Shalom, and love in Jesus.
You wrote:
I do bless Israel, but I cannot bless everything they do. And I do have an understanding for the plight of the Palestinian refugees – a people that have no real ‘home’ anywhere, and who are betrayed by their own bickering representatives…
My comment:
First:
No true Christan can, or should, defend all Israel is doing. This is to miss the point. Israel was not restored in 1948, as a bonus to the Jewish people. Israel was restored for the purpose of preparing for the end game on Earth. God of the Bible will take all his enemies into judgment in Zion. He will also bring the Messiah back to Jerusalem, to face His chosen people. When the full number of gentiles have come into the Kingdom, ALL of Israel shall be saved. That will be an awesome moment of truth and divine grace.
Second:
The suffering of the “Palestinian” refugees is a constructed political problem, made to put pressure on Israel. This is an Arab problem, where Arabs with great zeal and purpose, have failed to give their own people citizenship in Lebanon, Jordan, Syria or Egypt. Israel is not responsible for the Arab victims of Arab anti-Zionism, and almost a dozen wars started by Arabs in a bid to destroy the Jewish state.
Yes, you are right on both accounts, Ivar.
The surrounding nations could have absorbed these refugees, and given them full citcenship a long time ago.
Instead they have consciously kept the situation going for decades. the Palestinian refugees still don’t have full rights in the nations they have ended up, and they still live in ‘camps’, even though they may have concrete houses instead of tents today.
These are the ones stuck in the middle.
When you sit down with them in their homes, they often tell of this sense of not belonging anywhere. Of always being ‘second rate citicens’. So of course, they get ‘homesick’ and nostalgic about ‘Palestine’. (And in their misery, I can feel for them.)
Dear Ingela
Shalom.
Thanks for this comment, and for blessing me.
To first detect the evil doers, is a must if you shall be able to find a solution. The continuation of support of evil, is never going to bring justice and peace.
As long as the “Palestinians” live in denial, there is particularly not much Israel can do about this. The “Palestinians” are Arabs, and there can only be found an Arab solution.
Be sure this issue is a trauma for all Israelis. Not to forget 2 million Israeli Arabs, almost all of them Muslims, who do not support the errors of the “Palestinian” cause. Israel can simply not absorb more Arab Muslims. If so, the only state with a Jewish majority will disappear.
Should this happen, history will repeat it self. The horrible forces of antisemitism will eventually be able to create another Holocaust.
Come quickly, Lord Jesus!
Elohim is in plural because the Most High divine Creator , like any high person you would speak of correctly and respectfully you would speak about in plural and he or she would speak in the plural form. As such our king (singular) always shall say ‘We kings of Belgium”.
Allah is the title for any god but may also be used to indicate the Only One True God Allah, Whose Name is Jehovah.
The title Allah can be found in very old Bible translations in many languages and is still commonly found in Arabic Catholic and other Christian Bibles. The world needed not to have any other so called corrected translation to please the Muslims.
The lost 40 years we have seen many ‘corrupt’ Bible translations leaving out the Name of God and putting “Lord” where there was not written Lord at all, but was originally placed the tetragammaton. Such leaving out of the name of God was to confuse Christians and to bring forth more the doctrinal teaching of the Trinity, whilst the Bible, the Word of God is totally clear that there is Only One God, Jehovah, and the Quran’s Isa al-Masih is also Jesus the Messiah, and Christians should recognise that prophet and rabbi as their Christ, or man who brought salvation to us all.
Interesting subject.. I am born catholic and will die christian from Iraq .. I never heard of this Muslim version of our bible .. If it’s true it is very depressing matter how ever I grew up reading the bible in arbic and it’s no different than the English version god the father and Jesse the son and the Holy Spirit .. It’s all there.. But god in Arabic bible is Allah .. Does this mean I worshiped and prayed to the moon god all of my life ? Jesus is known as yasua not isa ? Who did all these translations .. Knowing my background is babylon and one of the first none israilie nation accepted Jesus .. How do I know the truth if it wasn’t given to me in the first place..
I live in Indonesia…
The translation of bible in indonesia also use the word allah to translate Elohim,
In yhe area with strong arab-islam influence, like south east asia where i live, the word allah is identical with the word god in general
But in the other hand we also understand that allah, is islam god’s name, as muhammad stated in his syahadat in 7th century..
la ilah ha il allah
no other god except……………allah…..
Jewish/Christian that existed hundred even thousand years before islam never knew god named allah
Our god is YHWH…
The God of the Hebrews, was never a begotten Son. Real followers of Jesus accept that Jesus is the son of God and the son of David, a son of man and not God. The bibles in Arabic and other Semitic languages or other languages where “Allah” is the title of God are not falsified, but are giving people the opportunity to come to know the Only One True God, The elohim Hashem Jehovah, Who is One and not two or three. the Bbile also shows that Jesus is the way to God, and therefore no words or titles may be changed. “Allah” is the title which in many languages is used for “God” and especcially for “The God” opposite ” a god”.
You mention as a controversial development the removal of any references to God as “Father,” to Jesus as the “Son” or “the Son of Go. which is a problem with many contemporary Bibles or even more so with the Bibles published in the 1970ies and 80ies where they took away the Holy Name of God (Jehovah) and replaced it with “Lord” or a word in their language meaning “Lord”, like “Heer” or “Heere” By doing that the trinitarian Christians hoped to make it more difficult for the readers to see if there was been spoken about “Allah” Jehovah God, the God above al gods, Host of hosts, or about the lord Jesus? In that instance they confused people more and hoped to win them for their Trinitarian views.