Not many Catholic priests are aware of their Bible promoting witchcraft. The satanic worship of demons is found in the book of Tobit. This book is among the books called the Apocrypha, rejected by Evangelical Christians as falsehood.
The Old Testament books of the Hebrew Bible was written in Hebrew. Not in Greek. The Greek books of Tobit, Sirach, Wisdom, Baruch, Judith and 1st and 2nd books of Maccabees was not included when the cannon of the Holy Bible was closed around 400 A.D. These books are called the Apocrypha. There are also other Apocrypha books, that is not included in any Bible versions. In the New Testaments age these kinds of books are called «gnostic books», like the book of Thomas the Apostle.
Their Greek origin made the first Church fathers reject them. Jesus sat the example. He never quoted from any of these books. As He did all the times from the books of the first Hebrew cannon, books like Genesis, Exodus, Deuteronomy, Isaiah, Jeremiah and Daniel. Jesus came to fulfill all the prophecies written down in them.
If the church fathers excluded the Apocrypha books from the canon of the Holy Bible, how did they enter into the Catholic Bible?
That happened in 1566 A.D, after the Council of Trent. The Pope needed a fresh defense from the attack of Martin Luther, who claimed that the Pope was an antichrist. The book of Tobit promotes indulgences as a way to salvation, another gospel of salvation by works. The problem is that the Pope of Rome, when he reopened the cannon, included this book that also promotes witchcraft.
In Tobit 6:8, the «angel» says:
«As for the fish’s heart and liver, you must burn them to make a smoke in the presence of a man or a woman afflicted by a demon or evil spirit, and every affliction will flee away and never remain with that person any longer»
A little later, the «angel» instructs Tobias (regarding his marriage to Sarah)
Tobit 6:17-18:
«When you enter the bridal chamber, take some of the fish’s liver and heart, and put them on the embers of the incense. An odor will be given off; the demon will smell it and flee, and will never be seen near her any more».
The Apocrypha book of Sirach is a book about a false Messiah. His name was Jesus Bar Sirach, and he lived approximately 200 years before Jesus of Nazareth.
The Roman Catholic Bible is a corrupt version of the Bible. We have to give Martin Luther credit for telling us the truth about the Pope in Rome.
Written by Ivar
ivarfjeld.com 
Yet Jesus quoted scripture from these books, which you are calling “a corrupt version of the Bible.” I have to ask myself, “Why would He do this if they were evil and had no merit at all?”
Dear Sandy.
Thanks for a positive comment, and a challenge. Please show me the verses, and I will issue an apology, and repent. If you cant do this, please go an get your self the Holy Bible and obey the Word of God.
The article was good. I think I could have done with some more info, but I got info anyway. The comment section was interesting though. VERRYY interesting. In any case, the apocryphas are crazy books, are justifiably to remain excluded from the Bible.
You need to reread the article. Jesus did not quote from these books. They are not Scripture.
Dear LS.
Shalom, and thank for positive feedback on this important Bible lesson.
Oh I can do this. I would not have posted it if I could not. Please give me a couple of days as I have an Aunt going into surgery tomorrow, but I will not forget.
I am also a convert to the Church so I read both Bibles and am fine in my spiritual life regarding me “obeying the Word of God.” In fact I feel very blessed in my life of having been a Protestant and now a Catholic. I love them both.
May I add one other thing. There is not one of us who has it totally correct. There is not one of us who does not have sin in our lives. It is God who will choose if we go to heaven or hell, the final say so of that is His alone. My soul and it’s condition and direction is between He and I alone as it should be.
God speaks to us all, not just a few.
God Bless, Sandy
Dear Sandy.
Thanks for your blessings. I have to correct you again.
Your wrote:
There is not one of us who has it totally correct.
My comment:
Truly, the Word of God is correct. And may those who has falsified it be cursed. It you are going for an exam, I guess you would prepare your self? If the school books were full of errors, you would surely fail.
The Bible is your exam with God. The whole World will be judge by God the Son, based on the Bible. Either they believe in the Word of God or not.
What is the criteria for a book to be canonical?
I never said “The Word of God is not correct.” I said to rephrase, “Man will never be totally correct.”
By this I mean we have failings, shortcomings, and sin. At times man/woman has made scripture fit what they want it to mean. When we do this we are wrong.
As far as “cursing” someone I think I will leave that up to God. Why would I want anyone to be “cursed?” I am a Christian. God did not call a one of us to do that, but He did call us to pray for those who are in those positions.
As far as witchcraft in the Bible being wrong. I think Saul went to a witch, promised no harm would come to her, and through her Samuel was raised from the dead. He asked Saul, “Why did you disturb my sleep?” Saul did this as God was not speaking to him, and he wanted to know what to do and what was going to happen. So should we throw this book out of the Bible also? This was witchcraft at it’s best. I could come back and say, “Your Holy Bible promotes witchcraft.” Before statements like this are made, things need to be thought through.
I found all of my scriptures last night even to Peter and Paul using the books you mentioned. I have pages of them so when you get when you get enough, please let me know.
Will be posting later due to Aunt.
God Bless, Sandy
You Catholics who claim the Bible promotes witchcraft are supporting the satanic worship of demons. This nonsense is found in the book of Tobit. The Old Testament books of the Hebrew Bible was written in Hebrew. Not in Greek. The Greek books of Tobit, Sirach, Wisdom, Baruch, Judith and 1st and 2nd books of Maccabees was not included when the cannon of the Holy Bible was closed around 400 A.D
Catholics who use King Saul’s example of gong to a witch and falsely claim that that promotes witchcraft, when God already condemned it, due to demons fooling people, are so blind.
For one, only God can raise anyone from the dead. No witch can. It wasn’t Samuel who spoke with Saul, and even the witch was astonished and afraid. King Saul directly lied and went against God when he did that.
Dear Sandra.
Your wrote:
As far as “cursing” someone I think I will leave that up to God. Why would I want anyone to be “cursed?” I am a Christian. God did not call a one of us to do that, but He did call us to pray for those who are in those positions.
My comment:
Galatians 1:9
As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned!
Paul could of course have prayed for such people, but he did not. The Popes have not repented from these sins of falsifying the Word of God for the last 500 years. And I am afraid they will never repent, and will all perish.
What you wrote about Saul is very interesting. Yes, he again sinned and went to a witch. Thats why Samuel rebuked him:
1 Samuel 26:16: Then Samuel said: “So why do you ask me, seeing the LORD has departed from you and has become your enemy?
If only for the purpose of explaining the sins of Saul, God permitted the departed Samuel to speak.
To use this example to say that the Bible promotes witchcraft, is the opposite of the truth. But in the book of Tobit the Vatican is promoting witchcraft as the right thing to do. Thats fake and falsehood.
The Law of Moses, which Jesus came to fulfill, bans witchcraft.
Deuteronomy 18:10
Let no one be found among you who sacrifices his son or daughter in the fire, who practices divination or sorcery, interprets omens, engages in witchcraft.
Paul explains to us the same:
Galatians 5:19-21:
The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.
The last issue: Did the witch really rise Samuel from the dead?
You wrote:
I think Saul went to a witch, promised no harm would come to her, and through her Samuel was raised from the dead.
My comment:
If so, witches and witchcraft is the Messiah. Because the Bible says that only the Messiah can raise people from the dead.
Lets see what the Bible says:
1 Samuel 28:15
Samuel said to Saul, “Why have you disturbed me by bringing me up?” “I am in great distress,” Saul said.
Samuel does not mention the witch (the medium) but Saul as the one who is disturbing him, bringing Samuel «up». Up from where? From where did the Angels come, when they appeared to Mary, Mother of Jesus?
They came from the Holy presence of God. So did Moses and the prophet Elijah during the transfiguration with Jesus. All of this happened before Jesus had died and resurrected. God the Son also raised Lazarus from the dead, before He him self had risen from the dead. Jesus was, is and will always be the one and only who can rise people from the dead.
You can stop “your warning me” right now. Get off of your “street corner.” I am more than willing to discuss the Bible with you. This is what gets me.
You are calling these books false. Yet I am sitting here with pages full of scriptures that not only Jesus quoted from them but Peter, Paul, and James.
You are also telling me you believe the Word of God to hold true for everything it says, which is correct. Yet the same Church that put that NT together is the same Church that gave you those books in the OT. Yet, you do not believe in some of the books of the OT and believe all of the NT. So which is it? It is all wrong or it is all right? It cannot be both.
Bad Popes. Yes there have been bad Popes, but can bad people still teach and make prophecy? One of the greatest examples we have of this is when the High Priest prophesied the death of Christ. If you will remember Jesus said, “To do as they say and not as they do.” He never took the teaching authority away from them.
It is just like people are saying, “We cannot do anything for people after they die.” Yet, we see the Corinths being baptized on behalf of the dead. 1Cor. 15-29 Otherwise what do people mean by being baptized on behalf of the dead? If the dead are not raised at all why are the people being baptized on their behalf. We know these people were not in hell, as you cannot go to heaven if you are in hell. So where were they? If you will notice Paul did not correct this did he? Jesus had already come and been raised from the dead, yet here we have it people were
being baptized so the dead could be raised to eternal life.
Yet the Bible only speaks of only heaven and hell? Not true. Lazarus was in the bosom of Abraham. The Bible says the rich man was in hell. Yet this man has compassion for his brothers. There is no compassion in hell as hell has no gifts from God, and compassion is a gift. Where is the rich man? Think these things through.
To begin I will give you this
Matthew 2:16 Herods decree of the slaying innocent children was prophesied in Wisdom 11:7 the slaying the holy innocnets.
Matthew 16:19-20 The statement of Jesus about laying up treasures in heaven follows Sirach 29:11. lay up your treasure
Matthew 7:12 Jesus golden rule: “Do unto others” is the converse of Tobit 4:15. What you hate do not do to others.
Matthew 7:16,20 Jesus statement, “You will know them by their fruits follows Sirach 27:6 the fruit discloses the cultivation
Matthew 9:36 The people were like sheep without a shepherd is the same as Judith 11:19 sheep without a shepherd.
This is all I have time for right now?
God raised Jesus from the dead.
I commend your zeal for God and His Word. In this we must have wisdom, knowledge, and patience. It is the Council of Trent not “Trend.”
I am misunderstanding your reply regarding Saul being the one who disturbed Samuels sleep. To me in this statement you are saying “Saul raised him” yet the angels from heaven raised him. If I am wrong I apologize and need clarification.
Like I said I will discuss all these with you. In hopes I will learn something and you will too. But I am not going to be “warned” and the finger pointed at me, when you have no better chance in getting into heaven then I do. When you are the same sinner as I myself am. When you have done and will do something today that will hurt our Lord, just as I will. You will be on your knees tonight repenting the same as I.
So let us keep it civil and have respect, and grow and learn.
God Bless Sandy
Dear Sandra.
Have I said that everything you say is wrong? When did I say, that you do not want to debate the Bible with me? Have I ever said that the popes never say anything right? Would we listen to anyone who only says wrong things?
Big lies are not dangerous. The dangerous lie, is the lie that is almost identical with the truth. Its still a lie. You are trying to answer my questions by asking more questions. Thats not correct.
This is it Ivar….your proof of Truth!! Sandy is right! During the Protestant “Reformation” Luther and other Protestants reformers removed these fully inspired books of Scripture from the Bible. As a result, Protestants have an incomplete Bible!
My understanding is that the Jewish Canon only accepted Scripture that was written in Hebrew. The book of Maccabees, for example, was written during the Greek occupation, thus it was written in Greek. The Greeks did a pretty good job of imposing their culture on conquered territories. Funny, although the story of Hannakuh was never actually chronicled in Scripture, it occurred during this time.
The Protestants chose to adopt the Hebrew books already selected in the Jewish canon. Thus, no non-Hebrew books were admitted. This is known as the Proto Canonical books. The Catholic understanding of inspired Scripture included some non-Hebrew books and was known as (still is) the Deutero Canonical books.
Personally, I believe the books were removed in order to better match up with the theology that was being proposed…
The Dead Sea Scrolls have bits and pieces of 6 of the Deutero’s in Hebrew.
And the Jews didn’t close their canon until 90-100 AD. The Council in Jamnia rejected the New Testament writings, but they did not close their Canon. There are still disputes among Jews as to the OT Canon. For instance, the Ethiopian Jews hold to the OT Canon of the Catholic Church. Even in Jesus’ day, there was much dispute on what constituted Scripture among the Jews.
You guys need to research!
Okay, here is another aspect to concider. How did the councils decide which books would be included in the canon and which ones wouldn’t? Just because a debate took place and a majority decided against a particular book, does this make it not Biblical? I am not saying that I think the Apocrypha is scriptural, but I wonder why we put so much faith in a human council. Anyone who disagrees with the majority and loses the debate is labeled a heritic and is sometimes even murdered. Are these the same people that we are placing our trust in to determine which books belong and which ones don’t? Martin Luther wanted the book of James removed from the Bible. Does this mean that James is heretical too?
Please understand, that I am not questioning the accuracy of our Bible or whether the apocrypha belongs in Scripture. I am just wondering why we have deemed something heretical on the basis of majority rule.
Dear Doug.
Shalom.
Thanks for this comment, which brings in a new aspect. Could the Church councils have done the right things?
Well, you are in a loop. How did the Gospel writers get it right? If they were not inspired by The Holy Ghost, than the Bible it self is a falsehood. I guess God of Bible has got it right. Also by moving the majority to do the right thing, in the election of the books in the Biblical cannon. It was men filled with the Holy Ghost who argued that only Hebrew Bible books which Jesus had quoted from, was going to be used.
In regards to Martin Luther, we have to jump to the conclusion. Luther was like Thomas. He was doubting. But in regards to the book of James, The Holy Ghost made him do the right thing.
Dear Sandra.
Now, the name of the Council is correct. Thanks for correcting me in love.
1 Corinthians 15:29
Now if there is no resurrection, what will those do who are baptized for the dead? If the dead are not raised at all, why are people baptized for them?
Is you understand this as Paul defends baptism of the dead, you should join the Mormon Churches. They are the only one I know who practice this kind of paganism today.
What Paul was explaining to us, was an old pagan tradition among the Hellenistic people of the Middle East. But people who baptized dead people, did not believe in the resurrection of the dead.
So Paul asked: If you dont believe in the resurrection, why are you baptizing the dead?
Jesus told us that dead people should go and bury their own dead. I guess He was speaking about religious people, who do not believe that our eternal life has already started? If you do not have the Holy Spirit, you are exactly what Jesus said: A walking dead. To baptize the dead, will neither bring them back, or make them see the resurrection.
Dear Sandra.
Shalom
You wrote:
Yet the Bible only speaks of only heaven and hell? Not true. Lazarus was in the bosom of Abraham.
My comment:
There are two dead Lazarus in the Bible:
The Bible explains that one Lazarus was in the tomb, in the grave. In Hebrew grave is explained as Sheol, the tomb of silence. Jesus has the power to raise the dead. Lazarus came out of the tomb in both flesh and spirit.
The poor Lazarus was taken up to Abraham´s side. Abraham was in Heaven. There is no limbo…Bosom and Paradise is just two other expressions of the Kingdom of Heaven.
Dear Sandra.
I misunderstood your first comment on Lazarus. Please forgive me. I did an edit of my own comment.
Here are some more scriptures and I will answer your other questions later if you do not mind. I am a little tired due to surgery and things.
Matthew 11:25 Jesus’ description, “Lord of heaven and earth is the same as Tobit 7:18 Lord of heaven and earth.
Matthew 16:18 Jesus’ refers to the “power of death” and “gates of Hades” references Wisdom 16:13
Matthew 22:25, Mark 12:20 Luke 20:29 The gospel writers refer to the canonicity of Tobit 3:8 and 7:11, regarding the seven brothers.
Matthew 24:15 The “desolating sacrilege” Jesus refers to is taken from 1Maccabees 1:54, and 2 Mac. 8:17
Matthew 24:16 Let those “flee to the mountains” is taken from 1Mac. 2:28
Matt. 27:43 If He is God’s Son, let God deliver Him from His adversaries follows Wisdom 2:18
Mark 4:5 16-17 Jesus’ decription of seeds falling on rocky ground and having no root follows Sirach 40:15
Mark 9:48 Jesus’ description of hell, where “worm does not die and the fire is quenched” references Judith 16:17
Luke 1:42 Elizabeth’s declaration of Mary’s blessedness follows Uzziah’s declaration in Judith 13:18
Luke 1:52 Mary’s Magnificat addressing “the mighty falling from their thrones” and replaced by the “lowly” follows Sirach 10:14
Luke 2:29 Simeon’s declaration that he is ready to die after see the Child Jesus follows Tobit 11:9
Luke 13:29 The Lord’s description of men coming from the east and west to rejoice in God follows Baruch 4:37
And I will stop here for now. But I want you to know something. I have learned something from you today, that I have always skipped over. That was the witch not raising Samuel. I missed it totally. I thank you for that knowledge. It still does not take away the fact that he did indeed consult her and she did indeed furnish the occasion for lack of a better term.
See you do not have to warn me or send me to the Mormon Church to teach me, now do you:>) The questions which I posed to you were none that I have not had to ask myself and have spent 30 years trying to find the answers to. Some I have found and some I have not. But I will still hold with the rich man could not be in hell and have compassion. It was his
lack of compassion which sent him where ever he was in the first place. To tell you the truth I do not know where he was either, but when you are in hell all of God’s gifts are gone, and compassion is a gift. If you have any insight on this would appreciate it.
If you do not mind when we are through with this, I will teach you the meaning of the word “cup” which was always being used, and why Jesus took the drink off the sponge in John and did not in the other Gospels when He was on the Cross. It is these things which truly helped me to piece not a scripture or a verse but the entire plan of God for mankind. That was the truth I was after. It was the questions which I had that made no sense to me when I read them. Like Jesus not drinking in the other Gospels. Why, I had to ask myself? You see John got it right, and I will explain after we are through. Forgive any typos.
I will send more scriptures later. God Bless Sandy
Dear Sandra.
The original issues was very simple. Now you have made it almost impossible for me to follow your speed in asking new questions.
Let me try again:
Is Tobit a book that promotes Witchcraft? Yes or no?
Is Jesus Bar Sirach a false Messiah? Yes or no?
Hello Sandy,
I just wanted to comment about the parable of the rich man and Lazarus. I had read somewhere online some time ago an “explanation” of this parable that said that the rich man was in purgatory, because he is “capable of feeling compassion”, which is something that is impossible for the damned. But actually, as I found out later, this explanation is wrong. The greatest theologian of the Catholic Church, St Thomas Aquinas (Doctor of the Church) explained this parable in his Summa Theologica. The rich man is in Hell and he feels no compassion at all and he really wishes that they were aslo damned. St Thomas Aquinas explains: “So great will be the envy of the damned that they will envy the glory even of their kindred [if these are saved], since they themselves are supremely unhappy, for this happens even in this life, when envy increases. Nevertheless, they will envy their kindred less than others and their punishment would be greater if all their kindred were damned and others saved, than if some of their kindred were saved. For this reason, the rich man prayed that his brethren might be warded from damnation: for he knew that some were guarded therefrom. Yet, he would rather that his brethren were damned as well as the rest.”
Thus, the rich man is in Hell, but since he knows that he would exprience the wrath of God to an greater extend if by his bad example all his kindred ended up in Hell. Yet he really wished they were also in Hell, but to a lesser degree than others. If you would like to read the whole explanation by yourself, you can find it in St Thomas Aguinas’ “Summa Theologica” under
“TREATISE ON THE LAST THINGS: QUESTION 98 (Of the Will and Intelect of the Damned); FOURTH ARTICLE.”
God bless,
Jose
Dear Jose.
Shalom, and welcome to this site.
There are many interesting sides of the verses Luke 16: 22 to 31. First of all the rich man is in Hell. Second from Hell, He wants Lazarus also to be sent there. It is a trap. Abraham rebukes Him.
The second trap from Hell, is to send Lazarus back from Heaven to the house of the rich man. There are some unbelieving brother`s of the rich man in than house. Again Abraham rebukes Him. Lazarus is in heaven. After the Judgment, Hell has no longer any power over him. When you give your life to Jesus, the power of Hell over your life is forever broken. Amen.
People who do not want to listen to God`s law, obey His teaching about right and wrong, will neither be impressed by a Messiah that supposedly rose from the death. This is a fact.
Jose Lugo,
What Thomas Aquinas says, it sounds like he went beyond what is written and even read things into the word that isn’t there. When one does that, then we miss the real message. The real message is what the Bible says, the rich man didn’t care about the poor and doing right, so he ended up in hell. The rich man wanted Lazarus to warn his brothers, but Jesus said to them “..they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.” This someone rising from the dead is Jesus. Jesus rose from the dead and people still don’t want to believe. Thomas Aguinas’ story sounds interesting, but I think the truth is better.
Dear Sandra.
You have misunderstood what the Early Church fathers was doing,in your try to defend the corrupt popes from the time of Reformation.
When Jesus quoted from the book of Genesis, there is a direct reference. Like in the Days of Noah…Or from the book of Deut: Hear O Israel, our God is One. Or Jesus said: Did not the Prophet say…Like the sign of Jona, etc.
Remember Jesus had a Bible. The Hebrew Bible. He went into synagogues and quoted from the Hebrew scriptures. In Luke you will find him reading from the book of Isaiah.
There are many books all over the World that might have lines which has been said by Jesus. Even the false Messiah Jesus Bar Sirach. If false Messiah only said falsehood, no one would be listening to them, and being royally deceived. Tobit promotes witchcraft. Thats it. Reject it, and give the pope the booth.
All right i will stick with your issues then.
Does Tobit promote witchcraft? No, the Bible tells us the Angel Raphael gave these instructions and I believe Raphael was an Angel from God.
Is Jesus Bar Sirach a false Messiah? Anyone claiming to be a Messiah other than the Son of God is a false Messiah. I do not remember him claiming to be the Messiah. I could be wrong but it has been awhile since I have read Sirach. Jesus Bar Sirach to my memory was the author of Sirach.
Now you have come back and said, “there are many books all over the World that might have lines which has been said by Jesus.” At first you said, “Jesus never quoted from these books at all.” If I could show you He had, you would apologize and repent.”
I will not reject something because someone tells me to, and I will not believe it because someone tells me to.
I think you and I are done. You wanted Scriptures I gave them to you and I have many more.
Again, I respect your zeal and love for God and the Bible. You said, “If Jesus ever quoted from them you would apologize” and He did. Now you are coming back with another answer.
You came on a Catholic Blog where people love God, His Son, and His Spirit. They love His Word and His Church. You blasted our Bible saying it promotes witchcraft. That is all our Bible does the entire Bible? You did not say, “There is a scripture in the Catholic Bible which I believe promotes witchcraft.” Our entire Bible does according to your title.
And Paul never said, those people were baptizing “dead people.” He said, “Those people were being baptized for/on behalf of the dead.” According to the KJV version of the Bible. You took that scripture and made it into something entirely different.
I am Catholic and I do not apologize for being one. I think God would be more proud of us, if we would not be stirring up discord among the brethern. After all the Bible does say that is a sin He hates.
I believe what I believe and I will stick to it. I do not think for one moment you are a mean, vicous person at all. You have no right to tell me to reject or accept anything. I read the Bible as well as you do, both of them. When I do, God and I will decide this matter.
It just really hurts me when others feel they have that smooth slide into heaven and others they deem will go to hell. When Paul says, “I do not even judge myself that is for God alone.”
God Bless you and I truly mean that. I hold no malice towards you at all. I just wish these kind of things would stop. We could love one another and grow in our faith in God regardless of what Church one is going to. This to me is so ridiculous. We are all trying to get to heaven the best way we know how and we are all trying to be as obedient to God as we can. The thing of it is, we all mess it up and at the end of the day, we all have to go down on our knees and repent and ask for His mercy and forgiveness. That should be enough for anyone, I know it is for me.
Take care of yourself and peace be with you. Sandy
Dear Sandra.
When you do not want to understand, what can I do?
You wrote:
Does Tobit promote witchcraft? No, the Bible tells us the Angel Raphael gave these instructions and I believe Raphael was an Angel from God.
My comment:
I guess you should go and do like Tobit, and get rid of the demons that are troubling you? And advice others to do likewise. Your corrupt Bible has made the Catholic Church a corrupt Church, a house of demons. Tobit is the best example.
You wrote:
«There is a scripture in the Catholic Bible which I believe promotes witchcraft», Our entire Bible does according to your title.
My comment:
When did I say anything like this? You twist my title to say something like: «The entire Catholic Bible is witchcraft».
I will suggest you start to study the origin of our faith, the faith that Jesus son of Mary had. His faith was Jewish. His father is God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. His Bible was Jewish, the Hebrew Bible.
This is the truth.
I believe you said The Roman Catholic Bible is a corrupt version of the Bible. To me that meant everything in it. I do not know how else to take that statement.
You know it really does not matter. When it comes to the Catholic/Protestant thing and all the bitterness and all the damaging words, truly who am I to think I can shed any light on it at all? I just want us all to get along and love one another with the love of Christ.
Even though some of your words hurt me and I am sure some of mine upset you, I still see, hear and feel the goodness of God in you. That is not about being Catholic or Protestant. That is about loving God and allowing Him to dwell within us and loving one another.
I do not want you “to do anything.” Believe it or not I understand. But I cannot turn from my beliefs for the sake of harmony, neither can you. But we can respect one another and know one thing that we have in common. That is we both love God and He loves us. That is truly to me what should matter.
This Catholic/Protestant thing to me is nothing but something which breaks the hearts of others. I would never say something like, “The Protestant Bible or their way of worship is corrupt.” And Protestants have many ways of worship not just one. In their worship (again I was Protestant) they still glorify God. It is about Him and not us. I think we all lose that focus and truth at times.
God Bless, Sandy
Dear Sandy.
We need to worship God in Spirit and in truth. If we try to worship Him in half-truths, we become wicked in the eyes of our Father in Heaven.
I do not brand my self as a Catholic, neither do I call my self a Protestant. When people ask me, I say Jesus of Nazareth has saved be to become a Bible faithful follower of Him.
And my question to them will always be: Are you faithful to the Word of God? Or do you reject the Word of God, on the alter of your pagan traditions?
The roads to Rome has always been full of blood and many good intentions. But its a road that will lead you towards the wide gates of Hell. «Jesus of Rome», is a copy-cat, an invention of the Vatican.
Please keep this in mind, that there were people who loved you enough to warn you!
Please remember there was someone who just loved you.
Sandy. Thanks! My Jesus lead both of us to repent for our sins, and into the Kingdom of Heaven.
Actually Tobit was declared canonical in 397, not 1566 like you claim. It was confirmed as canonical in 1566 by the Council of Trent as a response to Luther. Thus it is canonical for the Roman Catholic and Orthodox churches.
Dear Craig.
Thanks for your positive and reflective comment. You are right, and you are wrong. By the year 397 A.D the Church had already split. We had already a Church who did not accept the Empire of Rome as the head of the Christian Church, presiding over Church Councils. This Church, the one and only true Church, did only accept the Hebrew Bible. They rejected the Vulgate.
This is the Latin Bible, or ‘Vulgate’. Translated from the Hebrew and Aramaic by Jerome between 382 and 405 A.D. Thats the false Bible you might have in your home.
Wait, what? Can you please provide sources for this claim?
Dear Carig.
Provide sources for what.
The Roman Empire in the Church?
Please read about the Emperor Constantine presiding over some of the first Church Councils.
You should also read about the Church of the East, among them the Assyrian Church. That Church never accepted the rule of Rome in the Church. Neither did the Thomas Church in India, founder hundreds of years before Constantine came to power, and paganism entered the Western «Church».
You should also read about the Church of the East, among them the Assyrian Church. That Church never accepted the rule of Rome in the Church. Neither did the Thomas Church in India, founder hundreds of years before Constantine came to power, and paganism entered the Western «Church».
I was trying to figure out what “church” you were referring to. That helps.
So…. Sorry, I just read through this article, I don’t quite understand where you folk are getting “witchcraft” from those verses.
Witchcraft, at least how it is defined by both the Wicca and the various Christian churches of the world, centers around the summoning of demons and spirits. Both of those verses would appear to be wards against those “evil spirits”, rather than lengthy spells for summoning them. This definitely would appear to be canonical. I mean, Tobit 6-8 seems to deal with directly exorcising demons from an afflicted person. Given that this is something both Christ and the Apostles are mentioned to have done many times in the bible, I don’t think banishing demons is… witchcraft. Unless someone would like to consider Jesus a warlock.
I mean, sorry, but it would seem like the majority of this discussion is just kind of void. The Gosepl does line up to support the banishing of demons, and it certainly doesn’t call it witchcraft. I don’t have any verses in mind, but I’m certain there are at least three Christ performed exorcisms throughout the gospels. (Maybe four, I’m a bit rusty.)
And, to be honest, it’s not exactly surprising that more recently established Evangelical Christians would reject these books: a lot of modern mental illnesses line up pretty well with what was referred to as “possession” way back in the early AD’s. I mean, it’s kind of obvious to any onlooker that burning a fish’s heart and liver does not cure schizophrenia. (I mean, neither does anything else.) I’m willing to bet that Mother Church has these books in her canon because that canon was established way back at the Council of Trent, and the majority of our Pope’s tend to dislike the idea of playing around with centuries old tradition.
So… yeah. I don’t know what happened up above me, but just because it didn’t come out of Christ’s mouth during his time hear does not necessarily exclude it from validity. Canonical or not doesn’t matter in a discussion involving a Catholic or Protestant, those are pretty much solely for their respective church’s to decide. Validity of a particular book is derived from it’s context in your life, not from any literal interpretation.
To simply rule out these books as useless, because they include an old superstition our ancestors were probably quite fond of, is akin to damning your grandparents to hell for suggesting that bee stings cure fevers.
And as far as Christianity herself goes, I was completely unsurprised to find the two main contributors were willing to side step… logic… for direct scriptural quotation. And that’s ok I suppose. If you want to brand each other hypocrites, and slyly imply the other person is going to hell, or should go there shortly.
Sandy and … jar field? whatever. Your constant bickering of one jesus over another is insulting to the idea of his son in general. jarfield, your implications that the mother church has manipulated christ in a bid for power is entirely on the button, but only when you review it in the context of bygone ages. As of current, this practice has seemingly stagnated, and the core values of this “Jesus of Rome” you so despise have come to very closely resemble that of the original messages from the falsely denoted “Jesus of Nazareth” anyways.
Your arguing that one bible is better than another is ridiculous. They all are going to contain the same core gospels that defined your faith to begin with, the rest of it is irrelevant. I’d, in fact, argue that the biggest bible is the truest bible: the lessons contained within every book are tools, from which the human mind can glean valuable lessons concerning their faith, among other things. Being a self righteous basterd, and spouting on about false distinctions, like half-truths/whole truths, just brand all followers of Christ as wimpy twelve year old losers fighting on internet forums. You can trade BS back and forth all day, both of you are already set in your convictions, and you’ll accomplish nothing. I’d accuse you of being a troll, but instead I’ll just call you a tool.
Sandy, I reread your comments about five seconds ago, and most of them seemed to be alright, and closer to what I myself believe. The details are irrelevant, as long as the general lessons gleaned from the information remain the same.
ivarfjeld said, “Please show me the verses, and I will issue an apology, and repent.”
Sandy complied, and gave you more verses than you can handle, however, you are NOT a man of your word. Please apologize and repent!
Btw, if you reject the Deuterocanonical books, even though Jesus and his apostles clearly used them, why do you accept the Book of Hebrews? The author of this book is unknown, and yet was canonized.
Dear an instrument of God
Shalom, and welcome to this site.
This debate between me and Sandy is old, and frankly I have forgotten what she requested me to repent for. Please remind me.
Dear Carlos (an instrument of God)
Shalom.
You asked: Why do you accept the Book of Hebrews? The author of this book is unknown, and yet was canonized.
This is an irrelevant question. The author of the book of Job is also unknown, and so are other books in the Hebrew Canon.
The New Testament book of Hebrews quotes from the Hebrew Canon, used by Jesus the Messiah. Thats the issue.
All the canonized New testament books quotes from the same Hebrew Canon. None of them used teachings from the Apocrypha. The Apocrypha has correctly been rejected by Jesus and the Gospel writers, and should remain so.
This whole thing does sound sort of suspicious to me in a way. Even though I am a christian and I belive in God is it wrong of me to believe that god gave certain people in this world powers. what about moses wouldnt most say he was a magician of sorts practicing witchcraft and what about the men and women who have visions. is figuring out how to harness said powers and using them to help others. is that witchcraft or are we called prohets.
Dear Nitra
Shalom, and welcome to this site.
You raises an important question: What is the difference between the work of the Holy Spirit, and an unclean spirit?
The answer is to be found in the scripture. The Holy Spirit is not free to do whatever He likes. He can not contradict the scriptures, nor the teachings of Jesus. Simply because the Holy Spirit and Jesus is the same God. Father, Son and Spirit is One God.
God can not lie. Thats fantastic for us, who believe in Him. He is faithful to His promises found in the Bible. We serve an accountable God.
Raphael instructed Tobias to ward off the demons to never come back again ..how is that witchcraft??!!!
IVARFIELD BEFORE YOU START WRITING FALSE STUFF ABOUT THE CATHOLIC BIBLE AND THE CHURCH YOU NEED TO REREAD IT !!!
Maybe you are the demon who is twisting everything around.. like they usually do!!!!! Like the Saint Michael would say it.. MAY THE LORD REBUKE YOU !!!!!!!
The bible was written by man, whether it be to control a group of people or a mad man who heard voices.
witches are condemed by your bible, which is a good hint that its bull shit. witches learned magic from GOD. god was the one who created it, before man.
witches that were burned because of your ‘holy faith’ were all inocent and some were docters of their time. christians say witches warshop the devil, they’re evil. they dont believe in what doesnt exist (the devil)
god is neither good or evil. god is both. god is neither female or male, gods both. god is the balance of all, and until people understand that its not gods choice whether you make it to paradise, its your own. there is no excuse for any thing you do.
thank you.
Jesus condemned nobody. People burned the witches through their own sins and shortcomings from the glory of God. “Let him who has no sin cast the first stone.”
Dear Ed.
You wrote:
Jesus condemned nobody.
My comment:
That is true, in regards to His first coming. But He is coming back to judge the World. It will not be pleasant for people who are indulged in witchcraft to face the Lion of Judah.
Jesus called hypocrites “brood of vipers”. He did not give them the final condemnation, but gave them a chance to repent.
Dear Christian.
Shalom, and welcome to this site.
You wrote:
witches learned magic from GOD.
My comment:
The witches has learned magic from Lucifer. He was the most beautiful of all the angels. He was under supervision of God the Father, but he rebelled. The difference between God the Father and Lucifer, is that our Father in Heaven does everything for our own best. Lucifer is already judged for his rebellion. He can do nothing good. There is no truth in him. He is the father of all lies.
I have to agree on one point; the source of evil (and of course, goodness) is indeed God, but in an indirect way. Satan cannot do anything put God’s will. he is fallen. What we define as evil is in fact God withdrawing from our lives (at our insistence and free will). Satan and his forces are forever at the ready to destroy us, and when we reject God, we forgo His protection, and evil steps right in.
Origen states that even if satan stopped existing, Man would still sin. He also believed in the eventual salvation of all humanity. He was condemmed by the Church, but is nonetheless considered a Church doctor (but not a saint)
Aquinas states that ALL men strive towards happiness, i.e., God in the Beatific Vision. The problem arrises because some men’s idea of happiness is quite different from God’s intent. Hitler’s idea of happiness was world domination, can we blame him for trying to achieve this? No, it is for God alone to judge, even the most horrendous sin, as God alone knows what is trully in the hearts of men. We can only pray to Him for His mercy to ALL sinners, not just the warm and fuzzy kind.
As a schizophrenic, I must deal with smooth-sounding voices that urge me to do terrible things, like suicide. I am afraid “they” may succeed, as I am too weak, and I cannot be certain if any particular voice is God’s, despite claims. Prayer does not help, I have tried all my life. Prescriptions and hospitalization have only made my condition worse.
Sorry, guess I am rambling off-topic now.
Offred,
I hope you come back and reply again. You say prayer has not helped you, and you still hear voices that tell you to kill yourself.
Offred, I have seen the devil flee at the name of Jesus Christ. Get on your knees, cry out to Christ, repent from your sins, read the bible every day, find a Christ loving church that strictly adheres, and teaches from the new and old testament, and you will see the devil flee.
It took me a long time also. I have seen things not of this world since I was 8 years old. I was a child frightened, but Christ protected me then, as he protected me now. But Glory to Christ, he never gave up on me, and loved me all the way. Now when these demons come, I rebuke them, shout the name of Jesus Christ and they flee from me.
Just the other night, a demon tried bother me. But I rebuked it, in the name of Jesus Christ, and it left immeditately.
James 2:19 says: You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that-and shudder.
Trust me. But more importantly hand it all to our Savior Jesus, and trust in HIM. The devil is not going to give up in torturing us, because that is his job since he is so evil. But in the same token, Jesus Christ never gives up on us.
God Bless you, and though I do not know who you are, I will pray for you.
Dear Gloria, my sister in Jesus.
Shalom.
I thank our Master for ministering to His creation on this blog. All men are loved by Jesus, and all who comes to Him shall not perish but have eternal life. Amen.
Some are beyond hope. You know it says the old testament, the father, and the prophets will draw them near to the son then the disciples were to reap. The parable of one man sows and another man reaps. Anyone who doesn’t like the old testament would not like the new testament, because they are the same God. But not all who like Moses like Jesus. He says the work of God, that people should do, is believe in Jesus. And he said; search the scriptures for what Moses said about me that you may believe. I come up with Genesis XII 2-3
Also, if the bible was written by men he would have had more perceptible powers like superman, flying and X-ray vision. His miracles he kept to a minimum and they had significance. Turning water into wine, symbolized turning the baptism by water of John the Baptist into blood , second delivering the son of a ruler from death..symbolized his resurecction, walking on water symbolized the water in heaven, the frozen sheet of glass described in revelations. Everything he did was to teach and nothing was wasted just like we see in nature. Bible never ceases to amaze.
lucifer is a way to scare people into doing the right thing. lucifer is an angel and if he turned away from good, he’d be a demon. his enegy would be transfored, from positive to negative. witches and those who practice magic are bound by law to do no harm. sure some did and still do, but they’re only human. im sure the fact that humans are morons doesnt shock you.
magic is from the gods and was eventually tought to the humans by the gods and creatures that already knew.
the bible was written by man. no god would write or contribute to such a thing. i cant change your mind or make you open your eyes all i can do is tell you is the truth.
Dear Christian.
Shalom, and thanks for this comment.
The X-factor of His creation, is our free will. God can not force anyone to love Him. He wants us to chose Him, love Him, and love His creation. Lucifer is also a created being. God can not take back the powers He gave Him. Not before the final judgment.
The Bible says that Lucifer (Satan) will be thrown into the lake of fire. But not before Jesus returns to our World, to judge it. Not only shall Lucifer be judged. So shall all his children, running around doing his dirty business.
Christian,
You said: the bible was written by man. no god would write or contribute to such a thing. i cant change your mind or make you open your eyes all i can do is tell you is the truth.
You are believing a very old lie told by satan, and to this day, that lie is believed by many. The bible was written by man under direction from the Holy Spirit.
Christ warned us about satan’s lies: John 8:44
You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, and has nothing to do with the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks out of his own character, for he is a liar and the father of lies.
The bible also tells us that many like you (scoffers) will come in the last days. 2 Peter 3:3-4 Knowing this first of all, that scoffers will come in the last days with scoffing, following their own sinful desires. They will say, “Where is the promise of his coming? For ever since the fathers fell asleep, all things are continuing as they were from the beginning of creation.”
Speaking about the word of Christ, I find that there are large amounts of scoffers in these last days. I only pray that Christ touches your heart, and that you seek the truth soon, because in reality all those who do not believe ultimately serve satan, and will be cast into the lake of fire for eternity.
Revelation 21:8 But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.”
On a last note: “you say open up your eyes.” Well I say the same to you, because (praise God because I use it as testimony) I have seen what awaits those who will be cast into the lake of fire, along with satan and his demons, and it is far from a pretty sight.
No Satan corrupted people then kills them for doing the wrong thing.
Yeah I do think people can do tricks, witches can do tricks if they study black arts etc. But those are like card tricks compared to getting 1 billion people devoted to a black rock and another 1 billion devoted to another false Idol and then kill each other over the differences. That’s real Satanic power. Satan corrupts us by getting us too concerned about things of the world. As Soloman said about everything of the world “All is vanity and vexation of spirit”. The tricks and miracles manifested in reality are also vexation of spirit. Even in the bible if you focus on the miracles he did you will miss the whole message of them. Jesus said not to believe him for the miracles but for the message.
Hi Ed,
I came across something you said here, and I couldn’t resist showing you some scriptures that you might be interested in.
You said: “Even in the bible if you focus on the miracles he did you will miss the whole message of them. Jesus said not to believe him for the miracles but for the message.”
Here are some scriptures you might be interested in…
John 10:25 Jesus answered, “I did tell you, but you do not believe. The miracles I do in my Father’s name speak for me,
John 10:38 But if I do it, even though you do not believe me, believe the miracles, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father.”
John 14:11 Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the miracles themselves.
After reading this post, I just have to comment. It’s sad to me there is a lot of tension and bickering going on. That’s what happen in debates, but it doesn’t have to.
I had to comment because I was Catholic less than a year ago. Not just a nominal Catholic, but an educated, well-read Catholic who read theology, apologetics, papal documents and the like.
My husband and I started reading the scriptures. I also started keeping my eyes open in Catholic news and started reading what the Vatican was saying and doing while reading the scriptures. I read about the Pope praising the United Nations and calling for a New World Order. I read about the Pope calling for a divided Israel. I read (just yesterday..you can check my blog) about their disappointment that international climate change laws have not yet been implemented. (Last year Al Gore said climate change laws would give us global government)
More and more contradictions were coming into view with Scripture. I was very faithful to my religion and in this offended God by my actions unknowingly. I had statues, rosaries, scapulars, faithfully went to Mass and listened to what the Pope said. It is very easy to be entrenched in religion and still love God. I did love Him and had no idea I could be offending our Lord.
We have taken down the pictures, gotten rid of the rosaries and have a total aversion to statues. This is only by God’s grace. I had no problem with statues a year ago and my husband and I hate seeing them now.
The RCC is fooling all the Catholics, keeping them in bondage to their rules and false doctrine. The Gospel they proclaim is NOT the Gospel of the Scriptures. They say sacraments are necessary for salvation. The Word says the Gospel is the power of God unto salvation.
I would urge Joshua to start reading Catholic news to see what they are doing. See how they are asking for world govt. and for wealth distribution. Their actions will tell you the truth. The church was never meant to be a political organization/institution, but a fellowship of believers. This church is a religious system, very similar to the pharisees…telling everyone to follow the rules to get to heaven instead of faith alone in Jesus. Joshua, please check out my blog.
Sue
Sue,
I thank Jesus Christ because you are saved. I admit I do not know alot about what the catholics believe, but the stuff I do know does not make any sense to me. Only God’s Word makes complete sense to me.
Stuff like this in the Tobit:
6:17-18: «When you enter the bridal chamber, take some of the fish’s liver and heart, and put them on the embers of the incense. An odor will be given off; the demon will smell it and flee, and will never be seen near her any more».
HAS got to be the most ridiculous thing I’ve ever read. The only way a demon will flee is by Jesus Christ.
James 2:19
You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe—and shudder!
Mark 9 says:
20So they brought him. When the spirit saw Jesus, it immediately threw the boy into a convulsion. He fell to the ground and rolled around, foaming at the mouth.
21Jesus asked the boy’s father, “How long has he been like this?”
“From childhood,” he answered. 22″It has often thrown him into fire or water to kill him. But if you can do anything, take pity on us and help us.”
23″ ‘If you can’?” said Jesus. “Everything is possible for him who believes.”
24Immediately the boy’s father exclaimed, “I do believe; help me overcome my unbelief!”
25When Jesus saw that a crowd was running to the scene, he rebuked the evil[a] spirit. “You deaf and mute spirit,” he said, “I command you, come out of him and never enter him again.”
26The spirit shrieked, convulsed him violently and came out. The boy looked so much like a corpse that many said, “He’s dead.” 27But Jesus took him by the hand and lifted him to his feet, and he stood up.
28After Jesus had gone indoors, his disciples asked him privately, “Why couldn’t we drive it out?”
29He replied, “This kind can come out only by prayer.[b]”
“The church was never meant to be a political organization/institution, but a fellowship of believers.”
I have to agree at least on this point. The Church became a corporation with Constantine, and solidified its hold absoluetly during the Papal Revolution of the 11th century. The entire western world was under papal authority.
Today, the RCC is one of the wealthiest organizations in the world, perhaps the largest private art holder, and ironically has the most extensive collection of Occult material.
Priests, notwhithstanding vows of Poverty, own SUVs with vanity license plates (in my parish, at least), houses, swimming pools, and even collect a salary. I don’t think that this is the Kingdom of God that Christ envisioned on earth. Still, it is not right for us to condemn.
Protestants tore down the House and left the foundation. They put a roof over that and called it home. Not much of a home. The RCC House is indeed badly built in many places, no denying, but it still seems preferable.
The Bride of Christ may not be very pretty to our eyes, but I prefer Her to just Her shoes.
Your caption under the Pope holding the Gospels is wrong. He isn’t holding the Bible, he is holding the four Gospels, which is part of the Bible.
As well, the Dead Sea Scrolls have all seven books, plus the ends of two books that Protestants reject in Hebrew (the reason for this is that after the Catholic Church came out with their Canon, the Jews came out with their Canon, which rejected anything that wasn’t Hebrew, which included the NT. Kind of goes against being Christian to accept that Jewish premise). Nevertheless, Jesus and the Apostles used the Septuagint and not the Hebrew manuscripts. 🙂
There nothing in Tobit promoting witchcraft??? How are you seeing that Ivar????
And while we’re on the subject of “extra-canonical books”, here’s a good question, posed to me by many Protestants: “If the books of the Apocrypha are supposed to be canonical, then why didn’t Jesus ever quote from them?”
And the answer is, He did…and so did the Apostles:
Matthew 6:12, 14-15—“Forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors; if you forgive others their transgressions, your heavenly Father will forgive you. But if you do not forgive others, neither will your heavenly father forgive your transgressions.”
Sirach 28:2—“Forgive your neighbor’s injustice; then when you pray, your own sins will be forgiven.”
Luke 1:17 (describing John the Baptist)—“He will go before him in the spirit and power of Elijah to turn the hearts of fathers towards children and the disobediant to the understanding of the righteous, to prepare a people fit for the Lord.”
Sirach 48:10—“You are destined, it is written, in time to come, to put an end to wrath before the day of the Lord, to turn back the hearts of fathers towards their sons, and to re-establish the tribes of Jacob.”
Luke 1:28, 1:42—“And coming to her, he said, ‘Hail, favored one! The Lord is with you!’…..Most blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb.”
Judith 13:18—“Then Uzziah said to her: ‘Blessed are you, daughter, by the Most High God, above all the women of the earth; and blessed be the Lord God, the Creator of heaven and earth.
You also claimed the Church split in 397AD….How??? What is your Source??? Explain that in more detail???
What does it matter? All of you arguing about the word of God and Bible chapters…MAN wrote the Bible not God, it is the word of MAN not GOD! It’s funny the Bible is the word of God, but stories of the Roman, Greek, Celtic, etc. God’s is mythology…hypocrits!
Of course the ‘man written’ bible WRITES against the NATURAL world of the SACRED and DEVINE! The bible was to created to CONTROL!
Oh my, oh my…My thoughts –
There are many things that would cause me to run and not look back from the Catholic faith. First and foremost would be this:
Mat 23:9 And do not call anyone on earth ‘father,’ for you have one Father, and he is in heaven.
Vicar of Christ
noun Roman Catholic Church .
the pope, with reference to his claim to stand in the place of Jesus Christ and possess His authority in the church.
Also, Vicar of Jesus Christ .
Origin:
1475–85
Why does this remind me of the Pharisees at the time of Christ’s ministry? The similarity is chilling.
http://gracethrufaith.com/
This site has been very helpful in answering thousands of questions submitted by its readers. I suggest many visit sometime soon.
Sincerely, a born again believer in Christ Jesus!
You skipped Matt. 23:8,10.
Ivar, thanks for providing wonderful topics and format for follow up discussions.
Again, God bless your ministry.
Joe
This is a very interesting site. I knew about the “Catholic” books, but never read much about them. I recently began to look into them out of curiosity. As soon as I read the verse from Tobit about burning the liver of a fish and using as a ward against a demon, I knew it was witchcraft. How anyone cannot see this, anyone who claims to be a Christian, that is, is beyond my reckoning. Jesus did not instruct us to use “spells” to rid someone of a demon, He told us to cast it out in His Name! The very idea that one would use a spell is just silly to me.
Interesting that ‘fish oil’ is now a part of medicine. Also, there is the story of Jonah. And the gifts the magi brought to the baby Jesus. And then…..in Revelation 8:3…the bowl of incense is the prayers of the saints. I think God’s ways are above our ways!
Not just that, but the Bible clearly states in Matthew chapter 23 verse 9,”And call call no man your father on the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.” And what do Catholic church officials practically DEMAND to be called? Father. Yeah, the apocrypha is bad, and has no place in the true Bible, but at the same time, that’s not their only problem. By the way, where in the apocrypha does it promote assassination and suicide? I keep Google searching that, yet can’t find it.
Yet…..as Christian parents……we allow our children to call us ‘father’. Matt.23:8,10 also tells us not to call anyone ‘rabbi or teacher’. Then….in 1 Cor. 4:15….Paul says, “For although you have ten thousand teachers in Christ, yet you have not many fathers. For in Jesus Christ….through the gospel….I begot you”.
Paul is telling the folk at Corinth that he is their ‘father’.
Dear Ann.
Shalom, and love in Jesus.
You wrote:
Yet…..as Christian parents……we allow our children to call us ‘father’. Matt.23:8,10 also tells us not to call anyone ‘rabbi or teacher’
My comment:
When Jesus has told us something, we, as Christians parent are not free to trash it, and treat it with contempt.
Since a Catholic priest is not permitted to have sex with a woman, why do you want to call him “father”?
Catholic priests can not be a father. And they can absolutely not be “Holy Father”, since that is a title Jesus used when praying to His Father God in heaven.
Paul is not demanding that the people in Corinth, should call him “father” He is not “Fr. Paul”.
Paul talks about the lack of father-figures. He claimes they do not have many fathers. He has earlier called them “infants”, still they are adults. And these “infants” are obviously in need of a father-figure.
1 Corinthians 4:15
15 After all, though you should have ten thousand teachers (guides to direct you) in Christ, yet you do not have many fathers. For I became your father in Christ Jesus through the glad tidings (the Gospel).
(end of scriptures).
It is always sad when Roman Catholics use this teaching of Paul, out of context, to mock Jesus, and to nulify His command, not to call any religious leader for “father”. Therfore no protestant leader will obey the Papacy. No protestant Christian leader demand to be called “father”. No “Fr.Jones” will ever be permitted to lecture in our fellowship.
And by the way, Ann. What happened to the debate about “the ever Virgin”?
You never answered my Dec. 30th post on the Holy Virgin Mary.
And it is sad when folk use the teaching of Paul to further a hatred for the ‘mother of my Lord’, (Luke 1:43)……whose only crime was obeying the will of God, birthing our
redeemer, and then watching him die for folk…who are bent on dishonoring her. Peter called them ‘unstable’ ( 2 Peter 3-16).
Dear Ann
Shalom, and love in Jesus.
There was no question in your 30th message. So what was there to answer.
You might be insulted by Christians not honoring the Queen of Heaven, the mother of “Catholic Christ”. But for all who belive in Jesus the Messiah, it hardly matters what you feel. The truth is what matters. And accepting the truth is sometimes painful when you live in error.
We are all called to honor the mother of Jesus, a law obeying Jewess. She was surely chosen and blessed by God of the Hebrews. Still she was a sinner, a mortal human being in need of salvation. That is why she offered a sin offering in the Temple in Jerusalem, after giving birth to the Messiah.
All Roman Catholics mock the mother of Jesus, by paganizing and falsifying her legacy. You deny her humanity, and you reject her Jewishness. Please stop your mockery, and repent. If you do not, you will surely perish. I loved you enough to warn you.
The Queen of Heaven is mentioned in the book of Jeremiah, and not favorably. There is no place in the Bible, where God says to honor Mary as His coequal, or even His apostles…etc… Putting any person on the same level with God is idolatry. They call her Mother of God (in caps) as if she created God Himself, in truth, she was just His vessel, and she is created by Him – not the other way around. The Litany of the Blessed Virgin calls her the Mother of our Creator. Catholics call her the Mirror of justice, but only Jesus is able to save the world, Mary herself calling God her Savior, and the Bible clearly and emphatically states that God alone is our Savior. Period. She is even called the Morning Star by Catholics (read the Litany of the Blessed Virgin)…..she is called the Gate of Heaven even though the Bible says that Jesus is the Only Door and whoever goes around any other way is a thief & robber. She is called the Ark of the Covenant by Catholics and the Queen conceived without original sin, the seat of Wisdom and so forth. You can love brethren and sisters in Christ, but once you put them on an equal level with Christ, it is absolutely idolatry.
Argghhh! Must you Catholics continuously bend Scripture to say what it does NOT say!?? Where in the New Testament is Mary ever referred to as “the Holy Virgin Mary”? We do NOT hate her–any more than we would “hate” any believer. We do not hate believers from Old Testament writings (unlike the Roman church that erroneously teaches that “the Church” has replaced Israel in God’s affections), nor do we hate John the Baptist, “the last of the Old Testament prophets”. But it is very important that we establish that ONLY Jesus lived a sinless life and that ONLY He is our Redeemer. He was Mary’s Redeemer too!
Your 2 Peter 3:16 reference is erroneously interpreted by you and is actually more applicable to you and the Roman church. The Roman church has always bent their interpretation of Scripture to suit the will and traditions of men. Noting context is extremely important to the proper interpretation of Scripture and you totally ignored that.
Thing I don’t get about this, is if there was a demon possession in the Bible, God dealt with the demon Himself. Here, on the contrary, an angel says to burn a fish heart and liver, and the demon will “run away”, if I can use that terminology. This, however isn’t Biblical. God the Son (i.o.w. Jesus) told a demon possessing a man, “Go”, and the demon left only to possess nearby swine. Point is, God deals with demons, and demon possession. Not angels, not fish, but God.
The fact that Mary offered a ‘sin offering’, when she was ‘full of Grace’….no room for sin….shows what a humble girl she was, Also, don’t forget Jesus permitted himself to be baptized. John the Baptist was himself shocked by it.
I thank you for your prayers……a most precious gift. However….I, too, will pray for you….that Our Dear Lord would soften your heart….to see the beauty of his Holy Church, and his Holy Mother.
Ann, Mary, while used by God, was NOT holy. She was a Jewish girl born just the same way you and I were: born to a father and mother. The reason why we regard the virgin birth of Christ as so significant, is because he didn’t pick up the filth of man’s sin. Joseph was under the curse of Jeconiah. The virgin birth ALLOWED JESUS TO PASS OVER THIS CURSE! Mary was NOT born of a virgin (therefore picking up the curse of sin), did NOT live a perfect life, and she did NOT remain a virgin all of her life.
Dear Ann
Shalom, and love in Jesus.
You wrote:
The fact that Mary offered a ‘sin offering’, when she was ‘full of Grace’….no room for sin…
My reply:
This is yet another example of Roman Catholics having no idea of what the scriptures say. When you reject the scripture, you fall into all kinds of errors.
The first fatal error is to reject the humanity of the mother of Jesus. Roman Catholics falsify the legacy of this Jewish girl, by claiming she was a sinless goddess. That is an offence. The Jews had only one diety, the God of Israel.
The second fatal error is to reject the Jewishness of the mother of Jesus. To claim she did not know who she was, nor knew the law.
Leviticus 4:28
When the sin which he has committed is made known to him, he shall bring for his offering a goat, a female without blemish, for his sin which he has committed.
Leviticus 5:7
But if he cannot afford a lamb, then he shall bring for his guilt offering to the Lord two turtledoves or two young pigeons, one for a sin offering and the other for a burnt offering.
(end of scripture).
Since the mother of Jesus, for whaterver reason could not purchase a lamb, she opted for a less expensive offer for her sins. All Jews had to offer sin offerings for their sins. To be “full of grace” has absolutely nothing to do with sinlessness.
This kind of statements will exlude you from the Messiah being willing to add you to the book of life. Because you have chosen to listen to and obey dogmas taught by your parents and priesthood, who all reject or twist the Word of God. The head of all this non-Biblcial deceptions, is the Pope. The man of lawlessness and sin.
Repent or perish.
So….name her children
Matthew 13: 55-56
55. Is this not the carpenter’s son? is not his mother called Mary? and his brethren, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas?
56. And his sisters, are they not all with us? Whence then hath this man all these things?
Ann, I fear your lack of knowledge of the Bible is putting you in great danger, spiritually speaking. There are really only two religions in the world: DO & DONE. I fear that the Catholic church has deceived you into thinking,”I must do _____ to earn salvation.” Therefore, this would make you a part of the DO religion.
However, Christianity says DONE. There’s a song that goes,”Jesus paid it all. All to him I owe. Sin has left a crimson stain; but he washed it white as snow.” The Bible says in Ephesians,”For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works lest any man should boast.” When Jesus was on the cross, he cried, “IT IS FINISHED!!!”. Good news though: He did NOT stay dead. Rather, in triumph over sin and the grave, rose once again 3 days later. Ma’am, if this is not your ONLY faith about Jesus, or you think,”In order for me to get to heaven, it’s Jesus + _________”, than you’ve never been born again. Jesus wants to have a personal relationship with you. Do you want a relationship with him? If so, accept Jesus’ offer of salvation today. Again, there’s another song that goes,”Have you any room for Jesus? He who bore your load of sin. As he knocks and asks admission, sinner will you let him in? Room for Jesus, King of glory. Hasten now His word obey. Swing the heart’s door widely open. Bid him enter while you may.”
Life doesn’t go on for ever. If you died today, I’d fear that you’d be in hell. In hell, you’ll be reminded of all the times someone confronted you with the Bible, and you rejected it. The Bible says in Hebrews 9:27,”And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgement.” Accept Jesus today.
Reblogged this on Spiritual Abuse Sanctuary.
G-d has told us in HIS WORD, that every word is HOLY SPIRIT BREATHED. also warns of adding to it or taking away from it , even a dot or tittle. if we do we are cursed as it is written. all these churches who have their own bibles is all cursed for doing it. and our precious L-rd said: it is better to believe G-d than man and warned us of false teachers. so anyone who thinks they have the aurthority to change it or add to it is to make the word of non effect. calling good evil and evil good. from such turn away. the book of Rev is a perfect discription of the Catholic cult..Yesuha is the only authority in heave and in earth. please read the bible, it is the only turth..shalom
2 Timothy 3:16 a
ALL Scripture is given by inspiration of God.
(inspiration in this sense here literally means “God breathed”.)
And a Blessed New Year to you and yours! Angus Dei…Dona Nobis Pacem!
Chad…the names of the ‘children’ of Mary that you mentioned, are also in Luke 5:10; Acts 1:13-14: Jude 1:1. I hope you are not suggesting that Our Blessed Mother slept with Zebedee, Alpheus, and Simon and Peter’s father John (John 21:15). Then….in Luke 2:44-48…there is no indication that both parents….left their (by your suggestion) younger children ….to go find their 12yr.old son. And even when he, Jesus, was scolded, it was for what he did to the parents alone .
And I have to ask…..where in history has the birth of a baby involved a virgin, the overshadowing of the Holy Spirit, angels bringing messages, the Glory of God shining on poor shepherds, a multitude of the heavenly host…singing and praising God, and all this written in the heavens…so that magi from afar could see and be led to a manger by a mega star??? Can’t you see that Mary was ‘graced’ to participate in a ‘HEAVENLY AFFAIR’ ????
Even as I write this, I am in ‘shock and awe’.
Hmm, let me think. Are you saying that because, “Mary found favor with the Lord” that she is perfect? I hope not. Read the book of Job. Read the book of Daniel. Read the book of Daniel. God even called David, “A man after my own heart.” All of these people were used by God, and obviously found favor with Him. On the contrary, none of these people were perfect. David had sexual intercourse with a woman that wasn’t his wife, then had her rightful husband murdered. Point I’m getting to is this: Mary was the same way. Human. Granted, the Bible never records that she became a murderer (Thank God), but there’s also nowhere in the Bible where she’s “sinless”.
And now after reading my last post, I say, “Read the book of Daniel” twice. My bad.
Actually, that’s exactly what I am saying, and there is Biblical proof for this in the Gospel of Matthew. Chapter 27 verse 56 to be exact.
56: Among which was was Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James and Joses, and the mother of Zebedee’s children.
Ann, at this point in time, I must ask, how many things must I do to get to heaven? Later, when I am not pressed for time, I’ll show you what the Bible says in contrary to what the typical Catholic church says.
By the way, Ann, who do you think these people (James, Joses, Simon, and Judas) were?
James, Joses, Simon and Judas were all friends of Jesus….that is why they were praying together (see Acts 1:13-15).
And…I ask you….would God go to all this trouble to save us from sin, and then put the infant Baby Jesus in the care of the devil???
Dear Ann.
Shalom, and love in Jesus.
You wrote:
And…I ask you….would God go to all this trouble to save us from sin, and then put the infant Baby Jesus in the care of the devil???
My reply:
The mother of Jesus was chosen by God to give Jesus the Messiah his humanity, and God become like all of us. A human being. God the Father was obvioulsy capable of taking care of both the new born Messiah and his mother.
What matters here, is what scripture says about this Jewish woman. And please listen to what Jesus says about his own mother.
1. The mother of Jesus was Jewish.
Please study her blood line in Matthew 1:16. She is equalized with a lot of mortal human beings, sinners in need of salvation.
2. The mother of Jesus was in need of salvation.
Luke 1:46
My soul glorifies the Lord and my spirit rejoices in God my Saviour.
3. The mother of Jesus was selected, not begotten:
Luke 1:48
for he has been mindful of the humble state of his servant. From now on all generations will call me blessed.
(end of scripture)
Pure semantics display a young lady, who has an encounter with an angel, and suddently understands that she has been chosen, selected. Surely we all have to call her blessed.
4. The mother of Jesus was a sinner.
Luke 2:24
and to offer a sacrifice in keeping with what is said in the Law of the Lord: ‘a pair of doves or two young pigeons.
4 The mother of Jesus had children.
Mark 6:3
Isn’t this the carpenter? Isn’t this Mary’s son and the brother of James, Joseph, Judas and Simon? Aren’t his sisters here with us?’ And they took offence at him.
5.Jesus called his mother “woman”:
John 2:4
‘Woman, why do you involve me?’ Jesus replied. ‘My hour has not yet come.’
(end of scriptural evidences)
It was not Miriam, the mother of Jesus, who performed the miracle in the wedding.
Jesus did not call her “woman”, because he had to avoid men in the room, paying attention. Jesus could have called her “mother”, or even “my queen”. Jesus called on a human, who could not perform miracles without His proper authority.
There is not a sigle line in the Bible where she taught anything, nor did she performe miracles. Still Roman Catholics have made a “marian theology” out of nothing, and claim the mother of Jesus to be a divine goddess. Jesus the Messiah knew there would come Roman Catholics who would bid to elevate and paganize his mother, equalizing her with the pagan “Queen of Heaven” (Jeremiah 7:18 and 44:17-19)
The Messiah help’s us through the scriptures to avoid faling into this trap.
Dear Ann. You have chosen, not only to reject the gospel. You have chosen to join the papacy, in distributing a copy of the gospel. A blaphemous bid to replace the scriptures with not-Biblical dogmas. Your copy, “Catholic Mary”, is an offence to all Christians.
Please repent.
No, the Bible calls them, “Brethren”. This is what I don’t get about people who reject the Holy Scriptures. They twist it to make it say what they want. Think with me for a moment here, the Bible also mentions HIS SISTERS! THAT’S RIGHT! HE HAD SISTERS! If you read the FULL passage of Matthew 13, THAT’S WHAT THE JEWS SAID ABOUT JESUS! EVEN THE JEWS KNEW THAT HE HAD BROTHERS AND SISTERS! The mere fact that you don’t know that proves to me that you have never read the Bible in full. If you believe that you are an honest person, allow me to encourage you to read all 4 of the Gospels. It really will change your life for the better.
Questioning my knowledge of the bible is your opinion. I have checked and double checked, and nowhere in the New Testament…or Old for that matter….does it say that God would send Ivarfjeld to explain the Gospel. NO! NO! NO! In John 14:15-21, Our Dear Lord promised the apostles that he would send the Comforter…the Holy Spirit….who would lead them (his disciples) into his truth etc. Those are the same apostles that started his Church….and brought to us the Gospels. Jesus also said ‘ the world at large cannot receive the Comforter’ (verse 17).
God did not need Mary to give Jesus his humanity. He gave Eve her humanity just fine. Mary was specially created to take part in a heavenly event.
And even if you want to think that she was just a ‘vessel’….then consider Daniel 5, and what happened to Belshazzar when something that God regards with favor is mocked.
Background of the Roman Catholic Church:
It was started based on the Petrine Theory.
It held all services in Latin (which only the educated [the very few] knew).
It accepted the Apocrypha in the 1500’s as almost a counter-reaction to the Protestant Reformation. (while there were a few Catholics who accepted the Apocrypha before this, this was the first time the pope sat down at a council and accepted it on behalf of his whole church).
They taught in purgatory, almsgiving for forgiveness, transubstantiation (the belief that Jesus’ actual body and blood are sacrificed at mass), and baby baptism.
They are confused on the basis of salvation (some believe faith in Jesus, while others believe you must earn).
They worship Mary as a goddess, claiming she is perfect.
They always depict Jesus on the cross (the crucifix).
I could go on, and on, and on, and on, and on about what the Catholic church teaches and does, but for the sake of my next point, I’ll stop here. Ann, as much as I hate to say this, you need it. You have rejected the Bible as a whole by simply rejecting Christ. I pray that you’ll meditate on my, and ivarfjeld’s, words, and accept Jesus as your only savior, but at this point in time, I cannot do anything more other than pray for you. I can give you all the Bible lecturing I want, but if you’ve made the conscious decision to reject my words before they even are before you on a computer screen, there’s nothing I can do for you.
So, contrary to Biblical teachings, (John 14:6- Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. Ephesians 2:8- For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God.) Catholic priest William J. Cogan says that in order to be saved, there are eight requirements.
#1 Faith (In what? Just faith? I don’t get that.)
#2 Baptism
#3 Church Membership (Okay, show me that in the Bible.)
#4 Obedience to the commandments (Of the pope? Priest?)
#5 The sacraments
#6 Prayer
#7 Good works (Again, show me in the Bible. I dare you.)
#8 Remaining in grace until death (Once again, show me in the Bible. I double dog dare you.)
Ann, the Bible’s plan of salvation is clear. This priest just made his own version of the Ten Commandments, only this time, it’s not ten; it’s eight.
Thank you for your prayers.
When Our Dear Lord was on earth, he spoke in parables using simple and everyday examples, e.g grains of wheat, sweeping a floor to look for a lost coin,
lost sheep, putting new wine in old skins, lighting a candle and putting it where it gives best light etc. As a loving teacher, he taught at the level of his pupils.
In other words, he was talking to simple folk like me. And I understand him fine. So this is what I understand
Baptism….Eze. 36:25 says, ‘ I will sprinkle upon you clean water, and you will be cleansed from your filthiness…etc’.
Salvation….Luke 19:10, ‘Today, salvation has come to this house.’ This was said after Zaccheus had repented of his greed, made restitution, and given alms. N.B….Jesus never stopped him, or mention faith.
Grace….Ephesians 2:8. You mentioned this verse, but you never accept how ‘grace’ works….How Mary, ‘Full of Grace’ was void of sin.
Friends….In John 15:15 Jesus said to his apostles, ‘I call you friends.’
Eucharist….In Luke 22:19, Our Lord….hours BEFORE his death….held up a piece of bread, and declared, ‘THIS IS MY BODY.’ Not this symbolizes my body,, NO! NO! NO! ‘THIS IS MY BODY.’ Folk seem to have problems with the word ‘IS’.
Petrine theory….In Acts 2:5…..it says many Jews had arrived in Jerusalem from many nations. Peter addressed them and they were filled with the Holy Spirit. This is how the Church started. Those Jews…filled with the Holy Spirit, went back to their nations and started churches in their homes. Unfortunately, persecution started also. You can see in Romans 1:10, Paul sends them a letter of introduction….hoping to come and see them.
Apocrypha….The Unveiling of the Bride of Christ….his Catholic Church…..made up of sinners like me….a work in progress….who he is guiding and purifying.
Dear Ann.
Shalom, and love in Jesus.
You wrote:
Eucharist….In Luke 22:19, Our Lord….hours BEFORE his death….held up a piece of bread, and declared, ‘THIS IS MY BODY.’ Not this symbolizes my body,, NO! NO! NO! ‘THIS IS MY BODY.’ Folk seem to have problems with the word ‘IS’.
My comment:
Jesus the Messiah do not want his followers to become cannibals. He do not want them to drink blod, and to eat human flesh. When Jesus said “this is my blood”, he was holding a cup of wine. The wine was in the cup as a rememberance of the Passover blod, sheed 1.200 years earlier in Egypt.
When Jesus said “This is my blood”, the disciples did not understand what Jesus was saying. He had still not shed his blood at the cross of Calvary. After Jesus shed his blood, there is no excuse for treating the blood of Jesus with contempt.
When we drink of the cup, the fruit of the wine, we remember the blood that Jesus sheed for our sins, AT THE CROSS.
There is no substitute, nor any replacement, for this blood. No “sim-sala-bim”, or magic “hocus-pocus” by Catholic priests can turn wine into blood, and ABSOLUTELY NOT, the blood of the Messiah.
Ann, when Jesus said “This is my body”, does it record that Jesus then ripped off his ear lobe, and his fingers, and his toes? No. Why? Because Jesus wasn’t literally talking about, “Here, eat my body”; but rather symbols. Remember how Jesus spoke in parables? He used symbolism. Jesus said, “I am the bread of life.” He was not saying there, “I am bread, and if you bake me like bread in an oven, I taste a lot like communion crackers because you are literally eating me.” Okay?
And by the way, the reason why we don’t believe that hokas pokas transubstantiation nonsense, is because Jesus already bled at Calvary. No extra remission is needed.
I totally agree with you ……Jesus did not want us to become cannibals. That’s why he demonstrated trans-substantiation…..this is how he wanted it done, ‘…in remembrance of me.’ (Luke 22:19). Again….in Luke 24:13-31….on the road to Emmaus…..Jesus demonstrated trans-substantiation again. The disciples…were deliberately prevented from recognizing him…..like us in Mass. We see our priest until he prays and invokes the words of Jesus. Then…like the disciples at Emmaus…we recognize Christ at the breaking of the bread. There is power in the name of Jesus.
Feel free to mock trans-substantiation….call it ‘hocus-pocus’,….but this is what the early Church believed and did (Acts 2:46).
Transubstantiation is the peak of un-Biblical. Jesus cried on the cross, “It is finished!” Why does the priest think that this abomination is allowed, and permitted in the church. Again, Jesus used SYMBOLISM! Jesus did not practice this, the disciples did not practice this, and contrary to what the Catholic church says, it’s un-Biblical in the highest degree of the word. You can say whatever you want about how it changes form from cracker to God’s flesh, you are literally becoming a practicing cannibal. I don’t know how else to put it.
So the problem is IS!
In ‘It is finished’, that IS is not a symbol……but when Jesus said, “..this IS my body”, then that ‘IS’ is a symbol. I get it!
Incidentally….many early Christians were reported to the Romans for taking ‘Holy Communion’, or cracker as you put it. Many were fed to the lions, but some were crucified. On their crosses were written their crimes….’cannibalism’.
Ann, if I sniffed flower (which I don’t know why I’d do it, but go with me here) and on the way up my nose, it turned into cocain, would I have just sniffed coke? Yup. Essentially, I would have just done drugs. Essentially, transubstantiation is the same way.
Your sarcasm there is quite obvious, so let me use practical Biblical examples to show you what exactly I mean. #1. If you take the Bible very literally without being open to what the verse actually means, than you will find yourself in many apparent contradictions. Note that Bible mentions that there are 4 corners of the earth; however, another passage speaks of the circle (translated from globe/sphere) of the earth. This can cause a lot of problems if you don’t know what the context is. The context of this particular one talks of the 4 corners of the earth, or, should I say, the extent of one’s vision. Turn 90 degrees, and you realize that you can’t see something “over there” that you could previously see. So, your vision has corners. 90 + 90 + 90 +90 = 360 = circle. This just means that God is all around, and there’s no place on earth that he is not. So that just means, God is everywhere. #2. Have you everheard the phase, ” This IS perfect”? Of course you have. But is it REALLY perfect? Most likely it is not. This is just a phrase expressing your pleasure of something. So, it’s just another example of symbolism.
Dear Ann.
Shalom, and love in Jesus.
You wrote:
So the problem is IS!
In ‘It is finished’, that IS is not a symbol……but when Jesus said, “..this IS my body”, then that ‘IS’ is a symbol. I get it!
My reply:
I know that many religious Catholics can not except this. But when Jesus said “I am the gate” he did not demand that we should think he is i physical gate. And when the Bible expain that God is the rock of Israel, we are fools if we think He is a stone.
Anyhow, lets conclude.
We are obviously talking about two different women. “Catholic Mary” and the Jewess who gave birth to Jesus of the Bible, CAN NOT be the same person. One is real, the other a demonic figure.
FALSE: Catholic Mary was born free of sin, never sinned, and was taken up to Heaven sinless.
TRUTH: The Bible says that all men (human beings) have sinned, and fallen short of the glory of God. Therefor, the mother of Jesus offered a sin offering in the Temple, as an attoning sacrifice for her sins.
Now you chose if you will obey the truth or not.
FALSE: Catholic Mary is presented to us of being married, but did never have sex with her husband.
TRUTH: The Bible write the names of the siblings of Jesus, and even confired He had sisters.
Now you chose if you want to obey the truth or not.
FALSE: Catholic Mary is the claimed Vatican “Queen of heaven”.
TRUTH: The Jewish mother of Jesus was a Law obeying Jewish woman, who would be offended if anyone defamed her, using this tittle. All Jews were banned from adoring and venerating this pagan goddess, the Babylonian “Mother of gods”.
Now you chose if you want to obey the truth or not.
One of the reason why many Jews have refused to listen to the gospel, is all the blasphemies presented to us by the papacy. The “false Christ” of Rome is an abomination, and must not be worshipped by anyone. Only the true Messiah can save us. Amen.
You cannot blame Catholics for Jews not listening or believing the Gospels. NO! NO! NO! They didn’t believe when Jesus was standing in front of them.
In Israel, the Jews are surrounded by all the sites of Jesus’ walk on this earth.
Do they believe??
If I ever could afford to go to Israel, I would make a fool of myself….I would want to crawl on my knees…..from sight to sight….and kiss the ground he walked on. Yes….I would worship his footsteps!
Der Ann
Shalom, and love in Jesus.
You wrote:
You cannot blame Catholics for Jews not listening or believing the Gospels. NO! NO! NO! They didn’t believe when Jesus was standing in front of them.
My reply:
Again you present human thoughts, and do not quote scritpures. There were many Jews beliving He was the Messiah, as he walked in Israel in flesh. I can give you many examples, if you are interested.
Today, there are tens of thousands of Jews in Israel, who are Messianic Jews. They worship the Messiah in spirit and in truth.
So…….see these scriptures.
John 5:39-40; Acts 2:14-47; 28:16-31; Rev.3:9.
Hate to break it to ya’, Ann, but in WWII, Hitler launched an inquisition murdering about 500,000 gypsies and over 6,000,000 Jews. Not only was Hitler atheist, but he worked closely with Jesuits who helped him launch this inquisition. This VATICAN APPROVED inquisition became known as the Holocaust. If you wonder why many modern Jewish people don’t accept Catholicism, or regular Christianity for that matter, wonder no more. History speaks for itself.
And by the way, of course there were ignorant Jewish people who were blind and did not see Jesus as God incarnate before the Catholic church. I understand that; however, the mere fact that the Pope authorized Catholic Germany to do what they did doesn’t help convert them. This is a perfectly good example of Matt. 15:14 when Jesus basically says that the blind can’t lead the blind because they both will walk into a ditch. The Pope, even as I write this, is blind, and he’s leading the blind to a very false sense of security. He’s about to lead them into a ditch, and neither party realizes it.
After the ‘reformation’ by Luther in 1535, Germany became protestant…..still is. The Catholic Church had no power…..no army. If Jesuits took part in any killing, then I am deeply sorry. All the Jesuits I have met in my 60yrs have been wonderful men of God…..my heroes. And….about Pope Francis….always I hear him begging the world for dialogue and prayers for peace. Only Catholics, and maybe some protestants, are joining him in prayer. Others mock him.
Germany isn’t still protestant (or at least it wasn’t during the Holocaust). If you are wondering right now, “Is this Chad guy an idiot who wants war all the time?”, the answer is, only when war is necessary. I don’t mock the pope’s desire to see world peace, but imagining that it just comes about through prayer is ignorant of man’s sin nature. There’s always going to be war until the rapture described in the book of Revelation. (The book of Revelation is sometimes called The Apocalypse) It’s not pretty, and I believe that we should do as much as we can here to prevent war. I just spoke of WWII, and continuing on with that, Japan had a very un-Biblical pride of themselves, and really thought they were superior to all other races simply because they were Japanese. After the second atomic bomb was dropped on Nagasaki, the Japanese emperor surrendered. American General Douglas MacArthur said, (please note that I am paraphrasing) “These people need the gospel. The need Christian missionaries.” I think there’s a lot of truth to that. People need Christ Jesus to tame them (I’ll use Isis as an example). The Pope can say what he wants, but saying and acting are two different things. God doesn’t “do his part” if we don’t do ours.
The Book of Tobit describes how Raphael directs Tobias to use ointment made from a fish to heal his father Tobit’s blindness and how Raphael guides Tobias to scare away the demon that had been tormenting Sarah.
In chapter 12, Tobias still thinks that the wise and mysterious stranger accompanying him on his journey is a man.
But when Tobias and Tobit try to express their gratitude by paying the companion, they discover that he is actually an archangel — Raphael — who wants them to direct their thanks to God:
Raphael means God has healed.
Could it be that Raphael is also identified with the angel in John 5:1-4 who descended upon the pond and bestowed healing powers upon it so that the first to enter it after it moved would be healed of whatever infirmity he was suffering? Just a question.
After all the angel told Tobit in 12:16-21: “Do not be afraid; peace be with you. Bless God forever. As far as I was concerned, when I was with you, my presence was not by any decision of mine, but by the will of God; he is the one whom you must bless as long as you live, he the one that you must praise.”
Dear armorrcc
Shalom, and love in Jesus.
The book of Tobit is not included in the Hebrew canon. Its an apocryf book, which promote witchcraft. Like buring of fish liver, to scare away demons, etc.
Since you are quoting from this book, and do not inform the reader about its demonic content, you are a dangerous false teacher, sold out to the papacy.
After months of corrections and rebukes, I can not see any sign of repentance. So I feel we have to conclude, and say your mission on this site has come to and end.
Listen, the Apocrypha deserves a place in the museum as a historic artifact; not the Bible. I’ve asked my pastor who was once Catholic what it contained, and he said, “After research, I found that it promotes suicide, assassination, angel worship, almsgiving for sin repentance, and black magic.” I’m sure if I read these series of books, I’d find it. But the bottom line is, they are not inspired of God.
A. In Exodus, Moses gives instructions to perform a ritual that involves killing a lamb, eating the lamb, wearing certain clothes, and placing the blood of the lamb on the door posts. They are to burn whatever remained after the meal.
In Tobit, an angel gives instructions to Tobias to perform a ritual using a fish. The instructions are that he is to burn the gall, heart, and the liver.
B. The purpose behind the instructions given by Moses to the people is to ward off the actions by the angel of death as he passed through the land of Egypt killing the first born – “Passover.”
The purpose behind the instructions given by the angel to Tobias was to drive away a demon/fallen angel.
These two events parallel one another in nature and kind.
Obviously, some of the details vary, but much of the content is the same.
If we wish to look at one instance as magic, sorcery, or some other such occult practice, then we must also look at the other in the same way.
If we do not then we are applying a different standard to the two events.
Please correct me of i am wrong, my understanding is that you believe the angel Raphael in the book of Tobit is not from God but is a demon
Dear armorrcc
Shalom, and love in Jesus.
You wrote:
You wrote: “Pleaee correct me if I am wrong”.
My comment:
Since that is what I have been doing for the past weeks, I feel this is only lip service. You are not interested in being corrected.
You just want to continue to presnet the dogmas of the Roman Catholic Church as long as possible.
This is last try. If there is no sign of repentence, you should not spend more time writing comments. They will not be published.
Lets look at Tobit:
Tobit 6:17-18:
«When you enter the bridal chamber, take some of the fish’s liver and heart, and put them on the embers of the incense. An odor will be given off; the demon will smell it and flee, and will never be seen near her any more».
(end of scripture).
The demon is not going to flee, because God is involed in the burning of the liver and heart of the fish. The “incense” have become the medium, the product of buring flesh. This is one of the hard core doctrines of witchcraft. To use a medium to summon or to drive away spirits.
You must be completely spiritualy bindfolded, to compare this with the sign of the covenant, the passover blod in Egypt. It was not boing to be used to neither scare, nor summon God of the Hebrews.
It was tre obedience of the Hebrews, them sacrifycing their best lamb, that would result in God spearing their life. If they did not obey, they would see their firstborn being killed by the incomming destructive Angels of God.
I do not want to see more blasphemous messages from your pen on this blog, ever again. I have reached my limit of grace, and will have to dust my shoes and leave your court.
armorrcc,
*cough cough* MARK 9: 20-29! *cough cough*
Ivar is right; the medium is NOT God in that passage of Tobit. (I put emphasis on “NOT” for a reason.)
“AMAZING GRACE HOW SWEET THE SOUND THAT SAVED A WRETCH LIKE ME…” Praise be to GOD through JESUS CHRIST HIS ONLY BEGOTTEN SON~ OUR ONLY SAVIOUR FOR AN ETERNITY~ THE ONLY WAY FOR SALVATION~ for leading me out of the practice of catholicism no debate to be a had. Shame on those evangelicals/protestants that have let themselves be deceived and have been lead into “her”. I was shocked at how many protestants have let themselves be deceived when I KNOW WITH ALL MY HEART, SOUL AND MIND that it TRULY was GOD through HIs Holy Spirit in the name of Jesus that lead me out of the deception that “church” leads the lost and deceived to believe. JOHN 14:6! JESUS THE CHRIST~THE MESSIAH~ SAID SO! AMEN! PRAISE HIS HOLY NAME!
Amen. I’m glad you got out of the Catholic church.
I believe only God, Jesus, and Heavens Kingdom know the entire true story and explanations. All you have to do is believe in your prayers and use the guidance given to us through God and hopefully everyone that follows will get answers to all their questions sooner than later…God Bless All.
False! The Deuterocanonical books were referenced by Jesus and the Apostles, and the early church fathers write about them as being inspired. Jesus quoted from the septuagint that included the Deuterocanonical books. The rabbi’s at Javneh left out those books because they deemed them ‘too Christian’ for their taste. How ironic that you would agree. Furthermore, they were not added by the Catholic Church, they were DROPPED by Luther. Want proof? The Oriental Orthodox Church has the books in their canon. Their schism at Chalcedon was in the 5th century, 1,000 years before Luther. The Eastern Orthodox Church has the books in their canon. Their schism was in 1054, 500 years before Luther. Learn your history! Also, I would recommend reading Wisdom, Chapter 2 and you’ll notice someone (Upright/Righteous Man) who will look very familiar.
You’re so full of shit! The deuterocanonical books (Tobias, Judith, Wisdom, Ecclesiasticus, Baruch, 1 Maccabees, 2 Maccabees) were always part of the Dead Sea Scrolls! Jesus quoted from them in the Gospel. The Pharisees asked Him a question based off Tobias. Back in those days, there was no question as to which books were divinely inspired! Everybody knew all 46 were! The Jews those books out in 90! That’s over half century after they lost their authority over the faithful! The Catholic Church has always condemned divination (Catholic Catechism 2115, 2116) idolatry (Catholic Catechism 2112-2114), and sorcery (Catholic Catechism)! Learn to do some real research and not bear false witnesses (Exodus 20:16)!
37 And Jacob took green rods of poplar, and of almond, and of plane trees, and pilled them in part: so when the bark was taken off, in the parts that were pilled, there appeared whiteness: but the parts that were whole remained green: and by this means the colour was divers.
38 And he put them in the troughs, where the water was poured out: that when the flocks should come to drink, they might have the rods before their eyes, and in the sight of them might conceive.
39 And it came to pass that in the very heat of coition, the sheep beheld the rods, and brought forth spotted, and of divers colours, and speckled.
40 And Jacob separated the flock, and put the rods in the troughs before the eyes of the rams: and all the white and the black were Laban’s: and the rest were Jacob’s, when the flocks were separated one from the other.
41 So when the ewes went first to ram, Jacob put the rods in the troughs of water before the eyes of the rams, and of the ewes, that they might conceive while they were looking upon them:
42 But when the latter coming was, and the last conceiving, he did not put them. And those that were lateward, became Laban’s: and they of the first time, Jacob’s.
43 And the man was enriched exceedingly, and he had many flocks, maid servants and men servants, camels and asses.
How is this any less “witchcraft”?
11 And the Lord spoke to Moses, saying:
12 Speak to the children of Israel, and thou shalt say to them: The man whose wife shall have gone astray, and contemning her husband,
13 Shall have slept with another man, and her husband cannot discover it, but the adultery is secret, and cannot be proved by witnesses, because she was not found in the adultery:
14 If the spirit of jealousy stir up the husband against his wife, who either is defiled, or is charged with false suspicion,
15 He shall bring her to the priest, and shall offer an oblation for her, the tenth part of a measure of barley meal: he shall not pour oil thereon, nor put frankincense upon it: because it is a sacrifice of jealousy, and an oblation searching out adultery.
16 The priest therefore shall offer it, and set it before the Lord.
17 And he shall take holy water in an earthen vessel, and he shall cast a little earth of the pavement of the tabernacle into it.
18 And when the woman shall stand before the Lord, he shall uncover her head, and shall, put on her hands the sacrifice of remembrance, and the oblation of jealousy: and he himself shall hold the most bitter waters, whereon he hath heaped curses with execration.
19 And he shall adjure her, and shall say: If another man hath not slept with thee, and if thou be not defiled by forsaking thy husband’s bed, these most bitter waters, on which I have heaped curses, shall not hurt thee.
20 But if thou hast gone aside from thy husband, and art defiled, and hast lain with another man:
21 These curses shall light upon thee: The Lord make thee a curse, and an example for all among his people: may he make thy thigh to rot, and may thy belly swell and burst asunder.
22 Let the cursed waters enter into thy belly, and may thy womb swell and thy thigh rot. And the woman shall answer, Amen, amen.
23 And the priest shall write these curses in a book, and shall wash them out with the most bitter waters, upon which he hath heaped the curses,
24 And he shall give them her to drink. And when she hath drunk them up,
25 The priest shall take from her hand the sacrifice of jealousy, and shall elevate it before the Lord, and shall put it upon the altar: yet so as first,
26 To take a handful of the sacrifice of that which is offered, and burn it upon the altar: and so give the most bitter waters to the woman to drink.
27 And when she hath drunk them, if she be defiled, and having despised her husband be guilty of adultery, the malediction shall go through her, and her belly swelling, her thigh shall rot: and the woman shall be a curse, and an example to all the people.
28 But if she be not defiled, she shall not be hurt, and shall bear children.
29 This is the law of jealousy. If a woman hath gone aside from her husband, and be defiled
How is this any less “witchcraft” ?
9 And Jesus passing by, saw a man, who was blind from his birth:
2 And his disciples asked him: Rabbi, who hath sinned, this man, or his parents, that he should be born blind?
3 Jesus answered: Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents; but that the works of God should be made manifest in him.
4 I must work the works of him that sent me, whilst it is day: the night cometh, when no man can work.
5 As long as I am in the world, I am the light of the world.
6 When he had said these things, he spat on the ground, and made clay of the spittle, and spread the clay on his eyes,
7 And said to him: Go, wash in the pool of Siloe, which is interpreted, Sent. He went therefore, and washed, and he came seeing.
How about this?