Jesus do not put saved souls “to sleep”

The adventists teach that the dead are sleeping, as the souls awaiting the resurrection on the last day of judgment. That is not what Jesus told us.

Jesus did not put Lazarus to sleep, but rather called him out of Sheol. The power of ressurection explained.
Jesus did not put Lazarus to sleep, but rather called him out of Sheol. The power of ressurection explained.

When Daniel wrote about people “sleeping in the dust of the Earth”, he had the Jewish perspective in mind.

Daniel 12:2
Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt.

According to Jewish oral traditions, a soul is separated from the body on the third day. Some taught between three and seven days. The separation of body and soul takes place in Sheol, the tomb of silence.

The resurrection of Jesus also took place after he has spend three nights in Sheol.

Lazarus was in the tomb of silence, as his family and friends expected Jesus to come and participate in their sorrows.  They had already seen or head about Jesus rising people from death, and expected Jesus to do something similar. They were upset since Jesus did not appear within three days of Lazarus death. Jesus seems to purposely waiting till the forth day, so all would become aware of the power of the great “I AM”.

Jesus commanded in a laud voice: “Lazarus. Come out”.  

The onlookers must have been astonished and speechless. Than the Messiah explained: ” I AM the resurrection and life”. The power and authority of Jesus to rise anyone at anytime, was displayed in all its beauty.  Remember that this was before His own resurrection.

John 11: 14- 25

So then he told them plainly, ‘Lazarus is dead, and for your sake I am glad I was not there, so that you may believe. But let us go to him.’ Then Thomas (also known as Didymus) said to the rest of the disciples, ‘Let us also go, that we may die with him.’

On his arrival, Jesus found that Lazarus had already been in the tomb for four days. Now Bethany was less than two miles from Jerusalem,  and many Jews had come to Martha and Mary to comfort them in the loss of their brother.  When Martha heard that Jesus was coming, she went out to meet him, but Mary stayed at home.

Lord,’ Martha said to Jesus, ‘if you had been here, my brother would not have died. But I know that even now God will give you whatever you ask.’
Jesus said to her, ‘Your brother will rise again.’
Martha answered, ‘I know he will rise again in the resurrection at the last day.’
Jesus said to her, ‘I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me will live, even though they die; and whoever lives by believing in me will never die. Do you believe this?’

The Messiah did not save people, to put them to sleep for the next 2.000 years. He rose on the third day. We will all be collected by Him from Sheol in a similar day.

John 5:24
‘Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.

John 6:40
For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.’

In ancient oral Judaism the third day is the “last day”, as Jewish Martha correctly explained the Messiah. It could also be the day the Messiah arrives, the end of the age. Some Christians listen to claimed Christian preacher’s who have paganized the gospel, completely ignoring the Jewish context.  That is a mistake that will lead the hearer into all kinds of errors. One of them is the adventist doctrine of “soul sleep”.

When and from where will the dead rise?

Those who will rise “from the dust of the Earth” will rise from  Sheol, the tomb of silence. Just like Lazarus.  Both the righteous and the wicked will have to spend some few days there, till they face their King of judgment.  If the righteous man has not been raptured like Elijah.

What is the last day of judgment?

When Jesus returns, all who have accepted Him as Lord and God will not face judgment. Their name is already written in the book of life.  The last day of judgment is for those who have rejected Him. They might walk on the face on the Earth, or they might like Lazarus be called out form Sheol.

Be wise. Surender your life to the Messiah. Eternal life is at hand for you today.

Written by Ivar

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67 thoughts on “Jesus do not put saved souls “to sleep”

  1. Ivar,
    I failed to completely unsubscribe from you site, saw the email in my inbox about this article and decided to read it. You claim to be Jewish and proudly proclaim you eat pork, then you publish a piece of heresy like this. Besides being a false teacher, a wolf in sheeps clothing, you are also a heretic filled with apostasy.
    I won’t forget to completely unsubscribe now.

    1. Kalev,Ivar has never claimed to be jewish as far as i know ,there are many references in the scriptures about the consumption of meat.The Israelites are given this law from God through Moses,Leviticus.11 old testament/tanakh then we have Romans 14;1-23 or Mark 7;15-20 or Timothy 4;3-5 new testament new covenant You seem to dismiss this new covenant and what the birth death and resurrection of Christ was about

    2. Dear Kalev Efrayim

      Shalom, and love in Jesus.

      I am very sorry for this. That you did not manage to unsubscribe. It must have been painful for you to click on the link, and read this article written by a man who eats pork.

      By the way: I have never claimed to be Jewish. What do your Torah teach about a man who continue to spread lies, after truth has been revealed to him?

      1. Dear Kalev Efrayim

        Shalom, and love in Jesus.

        Exodus 12:48
        ‘A foreigner residing among you who wants to celebrate the Lord’s Passover must have all the males in his household circumcised; then he may take part like one born in the land. No uncircumcised male may eat it.

        My comment:

        If obedience to towards the law of Moses are still required for salvation, all foreigners (non-Jews) must be circumcised to join the passover meal. But Jesus called us all to accept Him as the passover Lamb. To live according to the Covenant of Moses, will exclude all not circumcised males from salvation.

        Acts 15:5
        Then some of the believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees stood up and said, ‘The Gentiles must be circumcised and required to keep the law of Moses.’

        (end of scriptures).

        By promoting this demand, you have joined the Pharisees. It was the Pharisees who opposed and defamed Paul. They claimed he had betryed his woves given as a Pharisee.

        Here is Paul’s defense of the gospel of grace, where he explains a righetousness that comes by faith.

        Acts 15:6-9

        The apostles and elders met to consider this question. After much discussion, Peter got up and addressed them: ‘Brothers, you know that some time ago God made a choice among you that the Gentiles should hear from my lips the message of the gospel and believe. God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us. He did not discriminate between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith

        (end of scriptures).

        Now, followers of your Levitical ideology, will have to brand the apostle Paul as a false teacher. And half of the New Testament invalid, and only written to lead people astray. Since I consider Paul an apsotle and a true teacher, I am one of those you will oppose, defame and recidcule.

  2. Weather you subscribe or unsubscribe, weather you eat pig or not it is, ejected-out; but your fruits & actions determine your destiny today & eternally.
    Pray to the HOLY SPIRIT to lead you to truth conventionally.
    Product of Exodus or no, we are Redeemed by the BLOOD OF CHRIST.
    John 6: 63 “It is the SPIRIT who gives life; the flesh profits nothing, the Word’s that I speak to you are SPIRIT & are LIFE.
    Go for TRUTH.
    Amen……………………………………………

    1. Dear 35ronnie

      Shalom, and love in Jesus.

      It is religious stuff, to claim that pork-eaters can not be cleansed by the atoning sacrefice of Jesus. If so,to abstaining from eating pork, is required for salvation. Suppose a man is tricked to eat pork? Think what horrible consequences this man feel he will face?

      This kind of religious views, remind me about how the Catholics from Portugal used to force Hindus in Goa to convert to Catholicism. The ville Portuguese, dropped pieces of bull meat into the wells of Brahmins, (hindu priests). When the priest drank of this water, he become unclean, and could no longer continue in his service. Whole villages became defiled, and was ex-communicated from the hindu society.

      A ex-communicated hindu was consided an untouchable. The Catholic priests offered them restoration, properties and work in the government. If they were willig to be baptized, and serve the Pope. In tens of thousands, they accepted the “offer”.

      Not so different what would take place inside a Ultra Orthodox family. If you eat pork, you will not be consided to be a son, but a pagan and an enermy of the clan.

      Ps. I do not eat much pork. I prefare vegetarian.

      1. I worked in a place that had quite a few Jewish regular customers that ate what they thought was veal,in fact it was pork,how many times i wanted to say something but knew i would loose my much needed job believe me this happens all the time in this industry you cannot always guarantee if somethings kosher or halahl

      2. Dear Rommgirl

        Shalom, and love in Jesus.

        I am very doubtful you have seen any Orthodox Jew eating pork. They can smell it as soon as they enter a room. But you might have seen Israeli nationals eating pork, or someone who call them selves “Reformed American Jews”.

      3. I must say thank you to God for his wisdom when it comes to circumcision of the male,but do wonder why God requires it,to what purpose did it serve to God really,this law was given to Abraham and concerned all males,both Jew and gentile,is circumcision a physical symbol of cutting away the old paganisim as a new covenant was made between God and Abraham?Was it for health reasons?Will my son be condemned because i didnt do it,does it have any spiritual value when done by a non jewish Dr in a hospital,by the way most modern circumcision’s are done before the eight day ,so even that goes against Gods law

      4. Dear Rommgirl

        Shalom, and love in Jesus.

        Your wrote:

        I must say thank you to God for his wisdom when it comes to circumsition of the male,but do wonder why God requires it,to what purpose did it serve to God really.

        My reply:

        To first thank God for his wisdom, and in the next line question His wisdom, huhm…

        Many people claim to know God. But they serve a “god”, who is not God of Israel. They like to claim that the Bible portay God of Israel as a little bit silly. Like demanding Jews to cut a piece of the males forhead, as en eternal sign that they are among His chosen people.

        In Norway, several secular humanist doctors demand a full stop to this practise, claiming “heath hazards”.

        They litterally demand that Norway must become a Jew-free zone, as this godforsaken place was in 1942. Half of the Jews of Norway were rounded up for massarrest in the middle of one night. Than they were taken to Auzwitch.

        The “wise” doctors of Norway, demand the Word of God to be made null and void, and that God of Israel be put inside the trashbin of history. That is what we call a mortal error.

        Strangely enough, even claimed to be Christians take a stand against circumsition. That is the height of hypocricy. If they open their Bible, they can read that even the Messiah they claim they follow, was circumized…..

        Since salvation has come to the gentile, there is no longer a need to be circumized to be granted a place inside the Kingdom of Heaven. But the eternal land covenant of Zion includes an eternal demand for circumsition.

      5. So circumcision is demanded means it is sin if a man is not circumcised? I do not see this in scripture. Can your u clarify?

  3. I have always wondered what the adventists teach.

    You wrote

    Daniel 12:2
    Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt.

    According to Jewish oral traditions, a soul is separated from the body on the third day. Some taught between three and seven days. The separation of body and soul takes place in Sheol, the tomb of silence.

    The Bible teaches

    2 Timothy 3
    16 All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,

    What Daniel records in Dan 12 v 2 is in Gods Word.

    Jewish oral ‘tradition’ is not.

    You also wrote.

    Lazarus was in the tomb of silence, as his family and friends expected Jesus to come and participate in their sorrows. They had already seen or head about Jesus rising people from death, and expected Jesus to do something similar. They were upset since Jesus did not appear within three days of Lazarus death. Jesus seems to purposely waiting till the forth day, so all would become aware of the power of the great “I AM”.

    Lets look at scripture.

    John 11: The Death of Lazarus
    1 Now a certain man was ill, Lazarus of Bethany, the village of Mary and her sister Martha.
    2 It was Mary who anointed the Lord with ointment and wiped his feet with her hair, whose brother Lazarus was ill.
    3 So the sisters sent to him, saying, “Lord, he whom you love is ill.”
    4 But when Jesus heard it he said,

    “This illness does not lead to death. It is for the glory of God, so that the Son of God may be glorified through it.”

    5 Now Jesus loved Martha and her sister and Lazarus.
    6 So, when he heard that Lazarus was ill, he stayed two days longer in the place where he was.
    7 Then after this he said to the disciples, “Let us go to Judea again.”
    8 The disciples said to him, “Rabbi, the Jews were just now seeking to stone you, and are you going there again?”
    9 Jesus answered, “Are there not twelve hours in the day? If anyone walks in the day, he does not stumble, because he sees the light of this world.
    10 But if anyone walks in the night, he stumbles, because the light is not in him.”
    11 After saying these things, he said to them, “Our friend Lazarus has fallen asleep, but I go to awaken him.”

    Jesus uses the same language as Daniel

    Our friend Lazarus ‘has fallen asleep’. This seems to show that in Daniels day and during the time the Lord Preached the Gospel they used Eupemisms.

    A Euphemism is a statement use to avoid stating the obvious.

    When someone dies we might say ‘ he gave up the ghost, or fell of his perch, kicked the bucket, anything but mention the word death.

    Jesus tells us plainly what ‘has fallen asleep’ really means note verse 14

    12 The disciples said to him, “Lord, if he has fallen asleep, he will recover.”
    13 Now Jesus had spoken of his death, but they thought that he meant taking rest in sleep.
    14 Then Jesus told them plainly, “Lazarus has died,

    The disciples seem to be slow on the uptake, when Jesus used the Euphemism ‘fallen asleep’ they took His words at face value.

    In verse 14 Jesus resorts to plain language ‘Lazarus’ has died’.

    15 and for your sake I am glad that I was not there, so that you may believe. But let us go to him.”

    Why make the statement in verse 15?

    If Jesus had been there, Lazarus and the sisters who He loved would have asked Him to heal Lazarus. He had spent three years teaching, ‘ask and it shall be given to you’ He would have had to heal Lazarus. There would have been no demonstration of Gods power at work through His Son.

    16 So Thomas, called the Twin, said to his fellow disciples, “Let us also go, that we may die with him.”

    Verse 16 gives us context. Jesus had already been threatened physically in Judea and had left, now He was proposing to go back, Thomas reveals the danger, but shows willing to return with the Lord and potentially suffer death.

    I
    17 Now when Jesus came, he found that Lazarus had already been in the tomb four days.
    18 Bethany was near Jerusalem, about two miles off,
    19 and many of the Jews had come to Martha and Mary to console them concerning their brother.
    20 So when Martha heard that Jesus was coming, she went and met him, but Mary remained seated in the house.

    What does the above reveal, Mary had lost hope in the Lord, but Martha still had hope.

    21 Martha said to Jesus, “Lord, if you had been here, my brother would not have died.

    She knew that Jesus had He been there would have healed Lazarus, no question.

    22 But even now I know that whatever you ask from God, God will give you.”

    She reveals that she knows who Jesus is and what Our Father will do if He asks. (For her, He was already her High Priest and God would give Him anything He asked for).

    23 Jesus said to her, “Your brother will rise again.”

    Jesus had spent over three years preaching the Gospel of the Kingdom of God.

    24 Martha said to him, “I know that he will rise again in the resurrection on the last day.”

    Martha reveals she understands that when the Kingdom of God is established on earth those who believed will be resurrected into the Kingdom of God.

    25 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. Whoever believes in me, though he die, yet shall he live,

    Now, here is the revelation. God is called ‘I am’ God is glorified by Christs statement,
    Whoever believes in me Christ is glorified, because the key to life is belief in Him.

    Though he die (Euphemism – fall asleep), yet he shall live.

    26 and everyone who lives and believes in me shall never die. Do you believe this?”

    Confirmation of the first statement for affirmation of eternity.

    He asks Martha to confirm her belief in His statement.

    She had already confirmed her understanding of the Gospel, but Jesus has already explained to us, Lazarus’ death has happened so that God will be glorified, the Son will be glorified and that ‘some’ of those who witness this event ‘might’ believe also.

    Look at her next statement.

    27 She said to him, “Yes, Lord; I believe that you are the Christ, the Son of God, who is coming into the world.”

    She affirms her belief, who He is and who His Father is and she reveals she understands and believes about what will happen in the future, by saying ‘who is coming into the world’. A future return of Jesus as Messiah.

    She might not have received the Lords prayer in purpose but ‘thy Kingdom come’ springs to mind.

    28 And when she had said these things, she went her way and secretly called Mary her sister, saying, “The Teacher has come and is calling for you.”

    29 As soon as she heard that, she arose quickly and came to Him.

    Recall Mary stayed in the house and didn’t move. But as soon as she heard that the Teacher is calling for her, she rises quickly,

    We can learn from this, if we hear His voice we should not delay in our response, but do what Mary did, arise quickly.

    30 Now Jesus had not yet come into the town, but was in the place where Martha met Him

    Note, Jesus the Rock of our Salvation had not moved, He was where Martha had left Him.

    31 Then the Jews who were with her in the house, and comforting her, when they saw that Mary rose up quickly and went out, followed her, saying, “She is going to the tomb to weep there.”
    32 Then, when Mary came where Jesus was, and saw Him, she fell down at His feet, saying to Him, “Lord, if You had been here, my brother would not have died.”
    33 Therefore, when Jesus saw her weeping, and the Jews who came with her weeping, He groaned in the spirit and was troubled.

    All of the above makes sense until we read ‘He groaned in the spirit and was troubled.
    Martha referred to Jesus as ‘the Teacher’ from what Mary said, she revealed how some of what Jesus had taught appeared to have not sunk in.

    Whatever you ask in My name, it will be given you. They could have prayed for Lazarus themselves, but, then there would be no resurrection for those that had followed Mary to witness.

    34 And He said, “Where have you laid him?” They said to Him, “Lord, come and see.”
    35 Jesus wept.
    36 Then the Jews said, “See how He loved him!”
    37 And some of them said, “Could not this Man, who opened the eyes of the blind, also have kept this man from dying?”

    These people also wonder why if he had come sooner Lazarus would likely be alive.

    We have the full story, we know that God was to be glorified and Jesus through what was to happen.

    38 Then Jesus, again groaning in Himself, came to the tomb. It was a cave, and a stone lay against it.

    Jesus groans again in Himself (He is aware of what will happen after Lazarus comes out).

    39 Jesus said, “Take away the stone.” Martha, the sister of him who was dead, said to Him, “Lord, by this time there is a stench, for he has been dead four days.”

    40 Jesus said to her, “Did I not say to you that if you would believe you would see the glory of God?”

    41 Then they took away the stone from the place where the dead man was lying. And Jesus lifted up His eyes and said,

    “Father, I thank You that You have heard Me.
    42 And I know that You always hear Me,
    but because of the people who are standing by I said this,
    that they may believe that You sent Me.”

    Jesus tells us why He gives thanks, so that the witnesses to the event might believe God sent Him.

    43 Now when He had said these things, He cried with a loud voice, “Lazarus, come forth!”
    44 And he who had died came out bound hand and foot with graveclothes, and his face was wrapped with a cloth. Jesus said to them, “Loose him, and let him go.”

    And there we have it Lazarus who Christ plainly said was dead, was now alive.

    What happened next is that many who witnessed this believed and some went to the Pharisees and told them what had happened.

    The Pharisees grew concerned about their own situation and started to plot what to do about it.

    But, the post is about what the adventists teach.

    My question is, where is Lazarus today?

    1. Dear Allistar.

      Shalom, and love in Jesus.

      You wrote:

      My question is, where is Lazarus today?

      My reply:

      My question is, where is Allistair today?

      Do he understand what salvation is?

      1. Peace to you Ivar.

        I ask where is Lazarus today?

        Your answer.

        Where is Alistair today?

        In the UK, reading your post and going to scripture as the Noble Jews of Berea did to see if what is being taught is supported.

        You ask also did I understand what Salvation is.

        1 John 3 verses 19 – 24

        1 John 5 verses 5 – 12.

        My question did not concern Lazarus’ salvation.

        I asked where is Lazarus today?

      2. Dear Allistar

        Shalom, and love in Jesus.

        The Bible do not display where Lazarus is today. But the Bible display what Jesus did. He raised Lazarus from the dead, and out of Sheol (the grave) The first death did not have any eternal impact on this man. The second death is the eternal like of fire. No exit.

        Lazarus not being metioned by name, there are other names who display their ressurection. Moses and Elija. Moses died and was burried. Elija was raptured. And they both were called to service by Jesus the Messiah. They appeared as His servants, during the transfiguration. This even also took place before the death and resurrection of the Messiah.

    2. i have no reason to lie,it was served as veal scallopene and served from a baine marie,cooked in bulk not as individual meals,and i could not tell you what type of judisim they followed,many wore the star of david,men always a hat ,also the chef cooked all lunch buffet meals before we opened,i am in Australia,not America,

      1. this was a response to you asking what if a Jew unknowingly ate pork,you seem to set the Jews above all as though because they are Gods chosen they dont break the commandments,They do just as you or i in one way or another,we are all human and have our secret self that only God knows

  4. Sorry Ivar i was being cheeky about the male anatomy being more pleasing being circumcised,but thank you for clarifying that is no longer a requirement of new covenant i wasn’t sure to be honest,but my mother had said i was wrong and going against Gods law my son is not baptized as yet either my sister has told me that because he has not been cleansed of original sin he has the devil closer to him you can imagine my response to that

    1. Dear Rommgirl.

      Shalom, and love in Jesus.

      To be able to serve the living God, we need to know who He is. Some guidelines are required, inline with the scripture.

      1. God is smarter than I
      2. God is wiser then I
      3. God is more mercifull then I
      4. God is more powerful then I…

      I could continue for a while.

      God could have demanded a cut of the eartip of every male, or demanded them to remain bold. What about body-painting them selves with a particular color? He did not. I can not doubt Him. He knows best why He did not. I just have to accept that He is God, and I am not.

      Since we are not called to walk around naked, no one knows who is circumised by just looking at a mans outward appearances. It is only the adults who were permitted to see your private parts, who knows. No stranger, no enemy. There seems to be some kind of security in what God demanded. A sign not visibly to all, but known to all the people who are supposed to be closest to you. No doubt, that the Jewish people are still standing…

      1. circumcision was practised before the covenant made with Abraham by other’s such as the Egyptian’s,etc,so why would it be used as a symbol of the covenant by God,also it was required by the Pharaoh that Moses must be circumcised it appears to be a practise that pre dates Abraham…Yes to 1,2,3,4 i am not a child nor raised a Jew and asked a question on the importance of this practise DONT SPEAK DOWN TO ME the Jews adopted this practise WHY ,before the disobedience of Adam/Eve we were naked and unaware .Who demanded the other races do it there Gods there kings there priest’s ???now tell me i dont need to come to this page,or i can only quote scripture because that’s what you do in your’e frustration good shepherd ,but remember i only seek the truth,may his love rain upon you Ivar

      2. Dear Rommgirl

        Shalom, and love in Jesus.

        You asked:

        circumcision was practised before the covenant made with Abraham by other’s such as the Egyptian’s,etc,so why would it be used as a symbol of the covenant by God?

        My reply:

        Why do you not just believe the Word of God?

        Genesis 17:9:14

        9 Then God said to Abraham, ‘As for you, you must keep my covenant, you and your descendants after you for the generations to come. 10 This is my covenant with you and your descendants after you, the covenant you are to keep: every male among you shall be circumcised. 11 You are to undergo circumcision, and it will be the sign of the covenant between me and you. 12 For the generations to come every male among you who is eight days old must be circumcised, including those born in your household or bought with money from a foreigner – those who are not your offspring. 13 Whether born in your household or bought with your money, they must be circumcised. My covenant in your flesh is to be an everlasting covenant. 14 Any uncircumcised male, who has not been circumcised in the flesh, will be cut off from his people; he has broken my covenant.’

        (end of scriptures)

        The Jesus you claim you know and love, was circumcised.

  5. I am not disputing the scripture as such,but more why God used circumcision as a sign of a covenant and why it were even needed,why it was an adopted practice of the Jews ,did God set covenants with others before Abraham ,I am quite aware that Jesus was raised an obedient servant to his father and would have been circumcised as this was written in the Tanakh as the law of God,why a covenant that excluded the female .Because i ask questions it doe’s not mean i do not love Jesus,even the Apostle’s asked question’s and had doubt’s thats what make’s us human.please be aware that you have a very condescending manner and your’e ego and pride in which i warned you of months ago,is starting to turn people away,I dont think this is your’e intention but it is how it is coming across.If you wish to help open the path as it were to Jesus for people then you had better learn patience ,tolerance and perseverance,blessing’s Ivar

    1. Dear Rommgirl

      Shalom, and love in Jesus.

      One of the most difficult part of the Christrian faith, is the call not to entertain false teachers. I do not tell people to leave News That Matters right away. In particular teachers of the Word. I tell them to repent, and I give people several warnings.

      You must have noticed, that people who I have warned, and eventuelly spammed, do surface from time to time. I am always willing to give people a second chanse.

      You do not pretend to be a teacher. But I have told you to read, read, read. The Word of God must be the highest authroity inn all maters of faith for every Christian.

      When you quote scriptures, I know you have studied. If you aplly the scriptures incorrectly, it is my duty to correct you. There are scriptures that can open for different interpretations. And there are scriptures that can not be negotiated. How to apply the Word into our daily life, that is what matters.

      1. Peace to you Ivar.

        You wrote.

        Shalom, and love in Jesus.

        The Bible do not display where Lazarus is today. But the Bible display what Jesus did. He raised Lazarus from the dead, and out of Sheol (the grave) The first death did not have any eternal impact on this man. The second death is the eternal like of fire. No exit.

        Lazarus not being metioned by name, there are other names who display their ressurection. Moses and Elija. Moses died and was burried. Elija was raptured. And they both were called to service by Jesus the Messiah. They appeared as His servants, during the transfiguration. This even also took place before the death and resurrection of the Messiah.

        My Comment.

        Concerning Lazarus and what we are asked not to do concerning sccripture.

        Not to add or take away.

        The reason Lazarus died was in the grave for four days is given in scripture.

        So the God would be glorified and also Jesus. Not to demonstrate anything other than the power of God at work so that the disciples, Martha dna Mary and the others present could witness a dead man restored to life, so that they might believe.

        Having been raised from the dead, we have no further information regarding Lazarus.

        We know, Jesus loved Lazarus and his sisters, we therefore know that even if Lazarus is resurrected to Judgement, Christ the one who loved him will be his judge and his name will be found in the book of life, his eternity from all we have written about Lazarus can give us confidence that his eternity is secure.

        The second death is the lake of fire, from which there is no salvation.

        The second part of your comment I quote below.

        Lazarus not being metioned by name, there are other names who display their ressurection. Moses and Elija. Moses died and was burried. Elija was raptured. And they both were called to service by Jesus the Messiah. They appeared as His servants, during the transfiguration. This even also took place before the death and resurrection of the Messiah.

        The other names who display their ressurection, Moses and Elijah.

        You refer to the transfiguration as them displaying their resurrection.

        Looking at scripture.

        Jesus prophesied

        Mark 9:
        1 And he said to them, “Truly, I say to you, there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see the kingdom of God after it has come with power.”

        He was in the company of people and made it known that some, not all, who were with Him would not die until they see the Kingdom of God ‘after’ it has come WITH POWER.

        I use capitals not to shout but to emphasize, because there is no facility to use ‘bold’ or underline.

        Six days later, we have no record of any deaths, all who were in his company were still alive.

        2 And after six days Jesus took with him Peter and James and John, and led them up a high mountain by themselves. And he was transfigured before them,
        3 and his clothes became radiant, intensely white, as no one on earth could bleach them.
        4 And there appeared to them Elijah with Moses, and they were talking with Jesus.

        In verse 1, we learn, the witnesses were to get a preview of the Kingdom of God, what to expect ‘after it has come with power’.

        Jesus was ‘transfigured’ before them so He took on the ‘appearance’ He will have when His Kingdom is established here on earth.

        See Revelation for a description of what His appearance will be like when He returns and this is what He looked like when Peter, James and John saw Him. Also it says that ‘there APPEARED’ to them Elijah and Moses, and they were talking with Jesus.

        There is no record that Peter James or John talked to the appearances of Elijah or Moses, they just saw them, as they will appear when the Kingdom of God is established.

        5 And Peter said to Jesus, “Rabbi, it is good that we are here. Let us make three tents, one for you and one for Moses and one for Elijah.”
        6 For he did not know what to say, for they were terrified.
        7 And a cloud overshadowed them, and a voice came out of the cloud, “This is my beloved Son; listen to him.”
        8 And suddenly, looking around, they no longer saw anyone with them but Jesus only.

        Peter wants to build tents for each individual.

        ‘They were terrified’ Look to Revelation, John has a similar experience. Saul was blinded.

        God, Our Father in heaven intervenes.

        ‘This is my beloved Son, listen to him’.

        What they experienced was the transfiguration of Jesus into the appearance He will have.

        And a vision of two who will rule with Him in the coming Kingdom of God.

        A Vision, they ‘appeared’ not in person because they appearance was gone.

        This was a fulfillment of the prophecy Christ gave 6 days earlier,

        This was not Moses or Elijah displaying their resurrection.

        This was Jesus giving three witnesses a foretaste of His appearance in the Kingdom of God with two who will rule with Him appearing visually but not in person, they had a vision, the three of them together so that each could verify what the other saw.

        Concerning heaven and who is there.

        Jesus said

        John 13
        36 Simon Peter said to Him, “Lord, where are You going?” Jesus answered him, “Where I am going you cannot follow Me now, but you shall follow Me afterward.”

        13 No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven.

        Elijah was taken up, but Jesus tells us plainly

        No one as ascended to heaven, but Him.

        Where is Elijah today?

      2. Dear Allistar

        Shalom, and love in Jesus.

        I can not reply to your booklets, and your mixture of topics, but will try to take one issue at the time.

        You wrote:

        Elijah was taken up, but Jesus tells us plainly No one as ascended to heaven, but Him. Where is Elijah today?

        My reply:

        2 Kings 2:1
        [ Elijah taken up to heaven ] When the Lord was about to take Elijah up to heaven in a whirlwind, Elijah and Elisha were on their way from Gilgal.

        In your confusing lectures, you:
        1. Deny that Elijah was taken up to Heaven.
        2. Refuse to accept that Elijah was saved.
        3. Refuse to accept that Jesus is using Elijah as a servant.

        “Ascended” and “taken” are two different words. Jesus was not “taken” into Heaven by the Father. He went on His own account, using no other powers than His own. Jesus is God. Elijah is not. Only God can “ascend” into Heaven. We can not.

        Scriptures have been given to you. I do no longer want to read your theological disputes, that set the scriptures aide for religious philosophies of different kinds.

        Are you by the way a former student of theology?

        I believe in the infallible Word of God. Please do likewise.

      3. Peace to you Ivar.

        My apologies for long responses, but you do ask for scripture to be given.

        You wrote

        2 Kings 2:1
        [ Elijah taken up to heaven ] When the Lord was about to take Elijah up to heaven in a whirlwind, Elijah and Elisha were on their way from Gilgal.

        In your confusing lectures, you:
        1. Deny that Elijah was taken up to Heaven.
        2. Refuse to accept that Elijah was saved.
        3. Refuse to accept that Jesus is using Elijah as a servant.

        “Ascended” and “taken” are two different words. Jesus was not “taken” into Heaven by the Father. He went on His own account, using no other powers than His own. Jesus is God. Elijah is not. Only God can “ascend” into Heaven. We can not.

        Scriptures have been given to you. I do no longer want to read your theological disputes, that set the scriptures aide for religious philosophies of different kinds.

        Are you by the way a former student of theology?

        I believe in the infallible Word of God. Please do likewise.

        My reply.

        I believe that the Bible is the inspired Word of God. The translations are not all perfect but my Jewish friend considers the King James the best.

        I am not a former student of theology.

        It is the suggestion that Elijah is in Heaven where God is and the Lord Jesus that disturbs me.

        If Jesus taught that

        13 No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven.

        To say that Elijah was taken up to heaven, makes Jesus liar, but it is the Bible that says this.

        Now, because Jesus says one thing and the Bible contradicts Him concerning Elijah means we have to do some homework in order to determine what the Bible is telling us concerning Elijah.

        In order to explain this and prove that there is no contradiction we must look up all the references to ‘heaven’.

        I won’t list them all here but the readers can and should check them.

        Genesis 1
        1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. (There is more than one heaven).

        17 God set them in the firmament of the heavens to give light on the earth, (the planets and the stars are in space the firmament).

        Genesis 19
        24 Then the LORD rained brimstone and fire on Sodom and Gomorrah, from the LORD out of the heavens. (Meteor showers come out of the firmament, heat up as the pass through into earths atmosphere another layer of heaven and hit the earth causing widespread destruction) whether it was a Meteor shower or something else, it came and caused the destruction and God rained it down.

        Deuteronomy 10
        14 Indeed heaven and the highest heavens belong to the LORD your God, also the earth with all that is in it.

        Now we get the picture.

        Elijah was not raised up to the highest heavens where only He who came down from Heaven can ascend to.

        Jeremiah 51
        16 When He utters His voice — There is a multitude of waters in the heavens: ” He causes the vapors to ascend from the ends of the earth; He makes lightnings for the rain; He brings the wind out of His treasuries.” (Within earths atmosphere where weather patterns form, the Bible calls this heaven, so, there is a heaven, within earths atmosphere that having Oxygen can support the mortal life of a human being taken up into it)

        We know and agree that Bible says that Elijah was taken up into heaven.

        We know that despite a search he wasn’t found.

        The story of Elijah has to be studied. But after all he’d done serving God he reached a point of desperation and called out to God to take his life, God sets about taking the title of Prophet of God from Elijah and transferring it to Elisha. The mantle Elijah dropped signifies the transfer of the title to Elisha.

        Now there is a problem.

        Those who have served Elijah must now serve Elisha.

        Elijah must be taken out of the way to ensure the servants loyalties are not divided.

        Who came in the spirit of Elijah? John the baptist, he was taken out of the way once Jesus started His ministry, John was brutally martyred.

        Elijah is taken up in a whirlwind.

        2 Kings 2
        1 And it came to pass, when the LORD was about to take up Elijah into heaven by a whirlwind, that Elijah went with Elisha from Gilgal.

        11 Then it happened, as they continued on and talked, that suddenly a chariot of fire appeared with horses of fire, and separated the two of them; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.

        Elijah is still mortal, taken up into the lower heaven but above the ground but NOT out of earths atmosphere.

        Is that the last we hear of Elijah?

        No!

        Here he is in Chronicles

        12 And a letter came to him from Elijah the prophet, saying, Thus says the LORD God of your father David: Because you have not walked in the ways of Jehoshaphat your father, or in the ways of Asa king of Judah,

        He was taken up in a whirlwind, carried well away from Elisha but not resurrected to eternal life in the Kingdom of Heaven.

        Let the Lord Jesus’ words be true.

        13 No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven.

        No one has ascended to the heaven Jesus came down from and ascended to.

        Elijahs death is not recorded.

        The vision at the transfiguration proves Moses and Elijah will be serving the Lord Jesus Christ when His Kingdom is established here on earth.

        I really am sorry that this takes up so much space, but, we are told to test all things.

        The Lord Jesus cannot lie, Elijah cannot be in heaven where He is.

      4. Dear Allistar

        Shalom, and love in Jesus.

        You wrote:

        To say that Elijah was taken up to heaven, makes Jesus liar, but it is the Bible that says this.

        My comment:

        You are a very confused soul. Since you think that it is a lie that Elijah was taken up to Heaven. Strangly enough you believe what the Bible quotes about Jesus is correct, but claim what is recorded about Elijah to be a lie. What if it was the opposite?

        Why did You not pay attention to my explantion about the difference between “ascend” and “taken”? Why at all should I keep on spending time in a bid to correct you?

        The prophet Malaki speaks about the return of Eliah. Not from the rainy clouds, but from Heaven. He is still a living servant of God. Jesus confirms that John the Baptist is the returning promised Eliah. Obviously Jesus talks about a man who have the same spirit as Elijah. And not so strange, Elijah Him self is alive, appearing in the transfiguration.

      5. Peace to you Ivar..

        You wrote

        Dear Rommgirl

        Shalom, and love in Jesus.

        One of the most difficult part of the Christrian faith, is the call not to entertain false teachers. I do not tell people to leave News That Matters right away. In particular teachers of the Word. I tell them to repent, and I give people several warnings.

        You must have noticed, that people who I have warned, and eventuelly spammed, do surface from time to time. I am always willing to give people a second chanse.

        You do not pretend to be a teacher. But I have told you to read, read, read. The Word of God must be the highest authroity inn all maters of faith for every Christian.

        When you quote scriptures, I know you have studied. If you aplly the scriptures incorrectly, it is my duty to correct you. There are scriptures that can open for different interpretations. And there are scriptures that can not be negotiated. How to apply the Word into our daily life, that is what matters.

        My comment.

        Addressing the issues one at a time.

        You write “One of the most difficult parts of the Christian faith, is the call not to entertain false teachers”.

        The Bible warns that there will be false teachers and false prophets, it teaches that we should listen patiently to what is taught and then search the scriptures to see if what is taught is so.

        You say you are patient with Romm girl because

        “You do not pretend to be a teacher. But I have told you to read, read, read. The Word of God must be the highest authroity inn all maters of faith for every Christian”.

        This is sound advice, especially “The Word of God must be the highest authority in all matters of faith for every Christian”.

        You then advise.

        “When you quote scriptures, I know you have studied.”

        Quotation of scriptures does reveal that the contributor is indeed reading and studying.

        You also write.

        “If you aplly the scriptures incorrectly, it is my duty to correct you”.

        This is true, but since none of us is perfect, we can only correct, if our understanding is more accurate than that of the contributor.

        Is it not possible that a contributor might be bringing to you aspects of Biblical understanding that you have yet to discern?

        Since it is accepted that “the Word of God must have the highest authority in all matters of faith for every Christian”. Then it is possible that contributors are bringing truth from the Word of God that till now you may not have taken in and if not don’t bring to the attention of your readers.

        You write.

        There are scriptures that can open for different interpretations. And there are scriptures that can not be negotiated. How to apply the Word into our daily life, that is what matters.

        This is so so true.

        One of the reasons we have Roman Catholicism, Protestantism, Methodism, Judaism, and all the other ‘isms’ claiming to be true Christian is because they have interpreted scriptures in a way that supports their version of Christianity to be true.

        There are scriptures that cannot be negotiated.

        ‘2 Timothy 3 16
        All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,

        As scripture is Gods Word, it is not for negotiation, it tells itself in the above what it’s for.

        We can learn and apply doctrine.

        it’s for reproof, we can listen and read and then we can look to the scriptures to see if what is taught is true.

        for correction. Whether it be you, me or any of the readers on your blog, scripture is written so that we can correct and be corrected.

        and for instruction in righteousness.

        Remember ‘seek first the Kingdom of God and His RIGHTEOUSNESS (caps not shouting but emphasising) and all these things (the gifts of the Holy Spirit) will be added to you.

        There are many things that have been taught by respected theologians and scholars.

        Can we honestly say that we have tested every word they have ever established as sound teaching?

        Does scripture teach us to accept everything we have heard without question?

        No.

        Sadly despite many theologians and scholars names being recorded in history, all of the things they taught and are recorded must still be tested, of what they teach, if scripture supports it, we should hold fast to it.

        But if the Word of God that must have the ultimate authority in our lives brings any aspect of what they teach into question we must go with scripture and reject their teaching.

        You often use the statement ‘true christians’ say this, or taught that, and include yourself as one of the ‘true christians’.

        By using this statement and reader or contributor could be inclined to think that if they don’t agree with what you say, you being the ‘true chirstian’ must make them a ‘false christian’.

        It is just an observation that I don’t see in the Scriptures any of the disciples or teachers describing themselves as ‘true christians’ where do we get the authority to call ourselves ‘true’ which implies a certain status over others?

    2. Peace to you Romm girl.

      Circumsion was something that God required of Abraham, to do to the male relatives and servants of his household.

      It would appear barbaric to do it today without medical supervision.

      For a man to do it to himself first considering how painful it would be, is to test the man to see how faithful he would be.

      We have it on record that Abraham believed God and to him it was counted for righteousness.

      So we have an example in Abraham who was obedient and do whatever was asked of him.

      Abraham had two sons, Ishmael and Isaac.

      Circumcision was asked of Abraham before the boys were born, (that needs checking) but, we know that the boys were circumcised according to the instructions God had given for all the males in Abrahams household.

      At this stage look at the sons of Abraham both are circumcised.

      One is to receive the birthright, one is not, but both are of the household of Abraham and both have received circumcision.

      The birthright passes through Isaac but the requirement to circumcise is passed on to both sons.

      Isaac has a son.

      Jacob.

      Jacob has his name changed to Israel.

      He has 12 sons, one of them is Judah, the father of the Jews.

      The other 11 make up the northern tribes called Israel who lived in Samaria.

      The Jews lived in Judea.

      The northern tribes rebelled and were exiled by the Assyrians.

      The Jews were taken into captivity by the Babylonians where they continued to practice their religion without the Torah because all the temple artifacts had been taken by the Babylonians.

      Jews eventually wrote down what they practiced in Babylon.

      They have the Torah and the oral traditions from which they have the Babylonian Talmud.

      I am not a brilliant scholar of Judaism but simply circumcision was not given to the Jews it was given to the patriarch Abraham and passed down obediently as God had commanded him.

      Under the new covenant it is not required.

      The apostles talk about the circumcision of the heart.

      Something that applies to males and females.

      Why God required it in the first place?

      The nearest I can deduce is a test of Abraham, he was prepared to inflict pain on himself and his servants to demonstrate that whatever God wanted of him, he would do it.

      Jesus was born of the tribe of Judah, in a time when the Old Covenant was still applicable, the tribe of Judah kept the law and statutes.

      He was circumcised in accordance with tradition.

      The new covenant was established by the blood of the Lamb of God.

      Sacrifice of animals, circumcision of male children these no longer are acceptable demonstrations of a persons obedience or love of God.

      However, God does require obedience from those who love Him.

      3 And by this we know that we have come to know him, if we keep his commandments.
      4 Whoever says “I know him” but does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him,
      5 but whoever keeps his word, in him truly the love of God is perfected. By this we may know that we are in him:
      6 whoever says he abides in him ought to walk in the same way in which he walked.

      Sadly too many people immediately widen this to mean keeping all the sacrificial system and circumcision.

      Yet Jesus taught what was the most important commandment, Love for God with Love for one another coming a close second.

      If there were more, then Jesus would have given us more.

      If we walk as Jesus walked, He kept the Sabbath day, He walked in the fields on the Sabbath day, the disciples were accused of harvesting on the Sabbath day, but we see that they were snacking on small quantities of corn they had gathered for consumption immediately, they were not gathering to sell.

      He gave us the ‘spirit’ of the law, which is not burdensome.

      There has been mention of eating pork.

      There is instruction in the Bible, not to judge a man by what he eats.

      It is written that our body becomes the temple.

      Personally I used to smoke, I wasn’t a happy smoker, it took years to stop, but biblically I was defiling the temple.

      We know from scripture that the temple was defiled by sacrificing pork on the altar.

      I don’t eat pork anymore either, it’s a personal thing more than anything else.

      I used to make regular calls in my job to a hotel and every time I was given a pork sausage and bacon sandwich.

      I can’t stand the smell of either cooking anymore. I cannot claim to no longer eat pork for a greater reason, but maybe three years of regular eating did the trick.

      But, we are taught not to judge and we have to start our walk somewhere and I am sure as we start our walk if there is something about our behaviour that isn’t right, as the spirit works in us, our behaviours and habits will change.

      1. Good morning,what a beautiful day we have here,the first day of spring,the kookaburra’s are laughing in delight,truly God has provided this for man’s joy…Thank you Alistair you seem to understand what i am trying to convey .I am not one to follow blindly as God has asked of me to be aware and have discernment,this is why i question ,it give’s me a deeper understanding.you are 100% correct about the fracturing of religious groups,everyone has an opinion and will beg to differ if they believe they are correct,these people are classed as bigot’s,i have seen many groups fall apart because of this..also the reason i prefer to be solitary in my relationship with God/Jesus,maybe the lesson of Gen;11;1-9 is apt here,There are many who set out to preach/teach the word that become arrogant and puff them selves up to be of status and self importance {catholic priest’s,the Billy Graham’s and like etc,these type feel they do no wrong and there interpretation is 100% these are false teacher’s outwardly they show themselves to be’TRUE CHRISTIAN’S and pillars of decency,but within their mind’s and heart’s their deeds are different,basically that is human nature ,we all have a inner self that only GOD knows .No i am not a teacher nor do i pretend to be,i dont rely on donations of the spiritually needy to bolster my ego or fund my world travel/lifestyle under the guise of doing God’s work,I know that i am far from perfect,but i do my best to uphold the commandment’s and prey that God’s see’s and know’s my heart.I cant help but think of Led Zep,s buying a stairway to heaven for these people that do empty work,and condemn others for not believing how they do,blessings

  6. Ivar, thank you for bringing up Seventh Dad Adventism. My mother made me go to a SDA school and then sent me to a live in Academy (so they could try to brain wash me some more). I never went back after about the age 18. One major point people need to know. They follow a false prophetess name Ellen G. White, which is no different than the Mormons and Joseph Smith. Without Ellen G. White they have NO church. They believe the mark of the beast is the Sunday worshipper’s, Michael the archangel is Jesus, their salvation is by works, they believe in not eating meat, drinking coffee tea, the push vegetarianism. Beside the fact that her so called prophecies never came true, people follow her blindly, and these people are just as hard to witness to than in any cult. They now claim that they don’t follow Ellen G. White, but in fact they do. Here is an excellent link to see what they believe. Hope you don’t mind Ivar. http://www.exadventist.com/Home/Intro/tabid/64/Default.aspx “Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron; forbidding to Mary (Roman Catholics) and commanding to abstain from meats (Seventh Day Adventists), which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth. For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused,, if it be received with thanksgiving.” 1 Timothy 4:1-4 parenthesis mine. “But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die. When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken is presumptuously; thou shalt not be afraid of him,” Deut. 18:20,22

    1. Dear nanentte.

      Shalom, and love in Jeuss.

      Since the SDA is a small religious community, I do not pay to much attention towards it. I focus on Roman Catholicism, who have decived more than a billion souls misusing the name of Jesus.

      Any religious man who correctly brand the Pope as an antichrist, do not have to be a part of a fellowship of Christians. Even my own chai-walla (tea-man) in India, a Hindu, told me that the Catholics seems to misuse the name of Jesus.

      But when i encounter SDA members, the topic of “soul sleep” makes it obvious that we do not serve the same Jesus. The true Messiah do not put people to sleep. He makes them alive. All who are His children are aware that salvation is today. A personal relationship has been established. We are already saved. We have already been granted eternal life.

      I have not yet studied the prophecies of Ellen G. White. Therefor I do not join any debates on this lady.

      1. Ivar, too bad you did not study before you posted what you posted. The SDA is HUGE! For one hospital’s, this is where they evangelize. There is more than one problem to what you said, I will get back to you later, it’s night here. Blessings

      2. Dear nannette

        Shalom, and love in Jesus.

        18,1 million people are members of SDA communities, according to wikipedia, and that is off course a lot of people. But compared to a billion Roman Catholics, the SDA is very small. In fact the small number of 1,8 per cent.

      3. Ivar, You said in your post these things. Separation of body and soul takes place in sheol. Jesus spent 3 nights in sheol. Lazarus in the tomb of silence. We will all be collected by Him (Jesus) from shoel in a similar day. Those who rise from the dust of the earth will rise from sheol, the tomb of silence. Both the righteous and the wicked will have to spend some few days there till they face their king of judgment. I ask, where do you get this from? Scripture? No. Extra biblical sources. Psalm 16:10 “For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.” Christ’s lifeless body was kept from corruption.” Sheol (disembodied state) See also Acts 2:25-28. “WE ARE CONFIDENT, I SAY, AND WILLING RATHER TO BE ABSENT FROM THE BODY, AND TO BE PRESENT WITH THE LORD.” 2 Cor. 5:8 “THEREFORE WE ARE ALWAYS CONFIDENT, I SAY, AND WILLING RATHER TO BE ABSENT FROM THE BODY, AND TO BE PRESENT WITH THE LORD.” 2 Cor. 5:8. Speaking of Lazarus and the rich man (Luke 16), “And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed; so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence. Luke 16:26. They can talk to each other and are separated by a great gulf. The people went in hell and the righteous in Abraham’s bosom. “AND IT CAME TO PASS, THAT THE BEGGAR DIED, AND WAS CARRIED BY THE ANGELS INTO ABRAHAM.S BOSOM. AND THE RICH MAN ALSO DIED, AND WAS BURIED; AND IN HELL HE LIFT UP HIS EYES BEING IN TORMENTS, AND SEETH ABRAHAM AFAR OFF; AND LAZARUS IN HIS BOSOM. AND HE CRIED AND SAID, FATHER ABRAHAM, HAVE MERCY ON ME, AND SEND LAZARUS, THAT HE MAY DIP THE TIP OF HIS FINGER IN WATER, AND COOL MY TONGUE; FOR I AM TORMENT IN THIS FLAME.” Luke 16:22-24 “Wherefore he saith, when He ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.” Ephe.4:8. Jesus took the souls in Abraham’s bosom up with Him to heaven. When born again Christians die, We go straight to be with the Lord. When unbelievers die they go to hell and await judgment at the great white throne. Either way we can communicate even though our earthy body in buried in the earth. But Jesus body did not see corruption. Before Jesus death burial and resurrection, the believer’s went into Abraham’s bosom and the unbelievers are still in torment until judgment day when their bodies will be resurrected (2nd resurrection) and judged and cast into the lake of fire. Blessings

      4. Dear nannette

        Shalom, and love in Jesus.

        You wrote:

        Psalm 16:10 “For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell

        My reply:

        If you had read my article about the confused American TV Preacher, you would have dicovered the error you are distributing from King James translaton of the Bible. The missunderstandings this error has created is massive, and you an exampel.

        https://ivarfjeld.com/2015/08/30/confused-preachers-claims-jesus-went-to-hell/

        The New King James version correct this mistake. King David is not taking about Hell in Psalm 16:10. He is taking about Sheol. From Sheol all men will rise, to face jugdment. From Hell there is no exit. As Abraham correctly explain the rich man.

  7. Hello Ivar. I am seventh day adventist from Brazil e Loved your blog. Adventists believe that the pope is the Antichrist. We also believe that in the future will become Lucifer in Jesus and will work miracles. I’m sad that you have posted against Adventists. Adventists do not believe that the dead sleep. That’s a figure of speech used in evangelism for the simple people understand that all will be resurrected one day. Adventists believe that the soul dies. The soul is being vivo.Na return of Jesus the human being is fully risen. My English is not good, it was written by google translator. study more about Adventists. Bye bye.

    1. Good to hear that Ivar ,i must say when you used the term my i felt quite uneasy as in was he a servant to you that i could not accept (Cant stand the Indian caste/outcast system..

  8. Ivar, so you are saying Sheol, hell and hades are ALL different places? I don’t believe it. In the Old Testament before Christ’s resurrection souls went to the place separated by Abraham’s bosom and the other side of the gulf in torment. They could see and speak to each other! After Christ’s death, burial and resurrection the righteous go straight to be with the Lord! So, Sheol/hell/ hades only have the wicked there, not the righteous. You did not comment on what you said. Sheol the tomb of silence. We have establish that it is not silent there. They can talk to each other, although they have no bodies. You say both the righteous and the wicked will have to spend some few days there, speaking of Sheol till they face their King of judgment. What? The way you put it seems like your talking about a type of purgatory. We have established the righteous go straight to be with the LORD. The wicked stay in Hell/Sheol/Hades until judgment. The tomb of silence-WHERE IS THAT IN THE BIBLE, give me proof. If souls are communicating then they are not silent, are they?

    1. Dear nanette.

      Shalom, and love in Jesus.

      The English word for sheol is “the grave”. Even Jesus was there. But in the Jewish traditions of the time of the Messiah, they did not burry people under six feet of soil. They put people inside tombs. It is pretty silent inside a tomb.

      You claim I have not given you biblical prof. Well, have you read the article? Have you read about Lazarus spending three days in Sheol, the tomb, before Jesus appeard on the forth day?

      To claim there is no difference between sheol and Hell, is the error of the King James translators. You can have your opinions, and deny that the New King James corrected this mistake. I know that a lot of people will object. Because they desire to hold on to their foundations and existing theology, regadless of what kind of facts thare are presented. A truth seeker will be interested in what i just explained to you.

      Hades in not a Hebrew concecpt at all. Not a part of Judaism. It is a Greek concept of the underworld, the reign of the king of Hades. This word was added by the Bible translators. It has just created more confusion.

      1. Peace to you Ivar.

        Having brought to our attention the SDA doctrine of ‘soul sleep’ surely it should be examined and corrected, they had to get the idea from somewhere.

        Lets look at the first mentions of the word soul.

        Genesis 2
        7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

        Numbers 11
        6 But now our soul is dried away: there is nothing at all, beside this manna, before our eyes.

        Revelation 16
        3 And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea.

        We learn from scripture that God is Spirit.

        We learn from scripture that God made man in His image.

        Adam was formed from the dust.

        Then God breathed the breath of life into him and he became alive – a living soul.

        The reference in Revelation above refers to sea life being ‘living souls’ in the sea that die.

        When God breathed the breath of life into Adam, the first man. His heart would start to beat, his lungs would be filled with air, oxygenated bllod began to circulate and the lifeless body became a living soul.

        The animals around us also have the breath of life in them, they have oxygenated blood circulating through them sustaining life.

        But….man wa made in Gods image. Man has a spirit too.

        Just as the King James uses hell for grave and hell for the lake of fire, plus hades wrongly.

        Soul is used where ‘spirit’ would be more appropriate.

        Animals don’t have spirits, though there will be people who would claim otherwise.

        It is the spirit in man that gives him the edge.

        We are aware that we exist, we search for meaning for our existence, God reveals Himself to man, that there is an eternal plan for mankind.

        Whilst Adam and Eve were cut off from God, through Jesus Christ the relationship with God can be restored.

        You reveal many pictures of rotting corpses dug up and venerated by RCC.

        The breath of life the soul leaves the body, circulation stops, tissue stops being oxygenated and decay begins. But the part of man, the spirit the part that makes us who we are this ‘rests’ under the altar in Heaven ‘if’ we are one of those who fall into the category described in Revelation.

        There the word spiirit would more aptly apply.

        Revelation 6 verses 9 – 11

        9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
        10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
        11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

        The above reveals the souls of the martyrs resting under the altar, they cry out, they are told to ‘rest yet for a little season’.

        Resting implies sleep, perhaps, the SDA have accepted the use of the word ‘souls’ noted they are told to rest a while and therefore believe the souls of the martyrs are sleeping up till they stir and say ‘How long, O Lord holy and true’.

        Maybe the souls of the saints resting beneath the altar awaiting God avenging their blood as He reveals in Scripture – “vengeance is mine”.

        Just a thought.

  9. It has been interesting reading all the things written above. for me, Speaking of Yeshua on the cross and the thief who said; remember me in your KINGDOM..and Yeshua said: TODAY,,not some day ,,but TODAY YOU WILL BE WITH ME IN Paridize. The L-rd also , forgot the scripture tonight, but It says, Absent from the body is to be PRESENT with the L-rd…Our last breat here if saved , the next one with our L-rd.. I also know that some that wrote the KJV of HIS Word, did their best, BUT many of the Hebrew words that was in the writings was not used and and so some things were wrongly interpeted. I have heard but don’t know for sure, but many say the NEW KING JAMES was done by the catholic cult.. I believe the ones under the altar who did for Chirst during the Tribulation……As For HIS Laws…for me show us the way to live like a school teacher. One thing I cannot do is hold up the catholic teaching at all, for them to have the gall to change my G-d’s Sabbath to Sunday…I call it the sun god day, and for me, to come together on sunsay, would be like oking the change of days for the Sabbath that the L-rd said: my Sabbath will Never change , no shadow of turning. I won’t uphold the cathlic sunday or any of the lies they teach.. as far as pork,,there is the old T..and I also saw n the New that we are not to worry about what goes thru the body, but to worhsip G-d in SPIRIT and TRUTH.. so many eat so much that they know is not good for us, yet point fingers at smokers or whatever. WE ARE to SEVER HIM in Spirit and TRUTH,,, we all know what sin is because HE wrote the law in our hearts…Sin is Sin..and the bible says, HE is not up their measuring sin, because when we break on we are guilty of all….. After listening to many pasters etc, I find just listening to the truth of HIS Word.. I did enjoy reaking all the opinions…thanks

    1. Dear mama bear

      Shalom, and love in Jesus.

      The grave (Sheol) is a place most of us will have for face. But not all. There are people who drown, who disappear, or are blown to pieces in bomb explosions, etc.

      Jesus do not have to wait for theee days to rise me. The Jewish believe is that the separation of body and soul will take place within three days inside Sheol. Therefor, on the forth day, it was considered too leate to rise Lazarus.

      Jesus was active within the three days from his death to His ressurection. Sheol (death) could not contain Him. He visited His Father in Heaven (Paradis) with His blood, and He ministeret to the souls in prison. He also approached Satan and took the keys away from him.

      Jesus took the thief on the cross with Him to paradis. Than the Messiah returned to Sheol.

      1. Peace to you Ivar.

        In your reply to Mama Bear you wrote.

        Jesus was active within the three days from his death to His ressurection. Sheol (death) could not contain Him. He visited His Father in Heaven (Paradis) with His blood, and He ministeret to the souls in prison. He also approached Satan and took the keys away from him.

        There are no references to scripture to support all that you wrote,

        The scripture to the best of my knowledge do not support the notion that Jesus visited His Father in heaven during the three days He was in the grave.

        Jesus stated quite clearly.

        Luke 11
        29 As the crowds were increasing, He began to say, “This generation is a wicked generation; it seeks for a sign, and yet no sign will be given to it but the sign of Jonah.

        He went on to explain that just as Jonah was in the belly of the fish for three days and three nights, that He would be in the belly of the earth, the grave for three days and three nights.

        To say, that, He went to visit His Father in Heaven is to teach that He was not in the grave for three days and three nights.

        If your teaching is correct then there is a further question.

        When the women went to the tomb on Sunday morning, they found it open.

        We read in John 20 verse 17

        17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

        Jesus has risen from the dead, but NOT YET ascended to His Father.

        We have all been led to believe certain things, yet, whatever we have been taught, and however well meaning the teachers were, often they too have not dilligently searched the scriptures like a noble Berean Jew.

        If Jesus says He has not yet ascended to His Father yet you say He did during the three days when He was supposed to be fulfilling the sign of the Prophet Jonah, then someone is lying, it can’t be Jesus.

      2. Dear Allistar

        Shalom, and love in Jesus.

        By grace I continue to minister to your unrepented soul, but this is the last bid. If I do not see any repentance, I will start to delete your messages.

        The holiest of holies are in Heaven. The Earthly tabernacle is just a copy. When Jesus said:” “Today, you will be with me in Paradis”, he did not mean Sheol, the grave. Jesus had other business that needed to be done, today!…To appear before the Father in Heaven. To whom, Jesus surrendered His spirit.

        Jesus did NOT die spiritually in the cross, as the Word of faith heretics proclaim. Jesus was not sent to Hell. His dead body was laid to rest in Sheol, the grave for three days and three nights. But His spirit and the thief on the cross went to Paradis.

        With what did Jesus appear before the Father in Heaven?

        With His own blood, to achieve eternal redemption.

        Hebrews 9:12
        He did not enter by means of the blood of goats and calves; but he entered the Most Holy Place once for all by his own blood, so obtaining eternal redemption.

        Jesus is also using Peter the apostle to explain what took place:

        1.Petter 3;19.
        After being made alive he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built.

        (end of scripture)

        Jesus appeared before the souls of those who died “while the ark was being built”. Who is keeping these souls in captivity? Where were these souls? Where were they imprisoned. And for what purpose did Jesus “proclaim” anything to them?

        The book of Revelation tells us more about the drama that took place, not giving us the details of this gross event in only one sequence or verse.

        Satan was kicked out of Heaven, and he was holding the key to death. To the abyss, or what we also call the bottomless pit, the area of his domain. It is in this place that Satan holds the lost souls that are in captivity. It is here Jesus faced Satan. Those who believe the Abyss is Hell, or Sheol is Hell, mix up these events, and do not understand that there is no exit from Hell.

        Revelation 9:1
        Then the fifth angel sounded: And I saw a star fallen from heaven to the earth. To him was given the key to the bottomless pit.

        When Jesus gained His victory on the cross, he stripped Satan of all His powers. The key is no longer to be found on the hands of Satan. Eternally this key is found in the hands of Jesus. He passed on the key (authority) to His disciples, where Peter is named.

        Matthew 16:18-19
        And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it. I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.’

        The Pope claims this “key” is with him. The Peters Square in the Vatican is formed as “a key”. The key to eternal life in Heaven. And a huge statue of Peter stands there, with Peter holding this key in his hand.

        Revelation 1:18.
        I am He who lives, and was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore. Amen. And I have the keys of Hades and of Death.

        When you correctly understand the word “Paradis” you will understand that salvation was achieved, won and effectuated at the cross on Calvary Hill. When you stop mixing up the words “Sheol” “Abyss” and “Hell”, you will be able to understand what Jesus have done. And why He can proclaim. All POWER in Heaven and Earth is with ME.

      3. Peace to you Ivar.

        Please do not presume that my soul is unrepentant.

        Your reply to Mamma Bear contained no scriptural references, you have requested them from me and those who read comments on your blog need to know where your understanding comes from.

        Let us consider the role you believe you have been called into.

        Watchman over the Vatican and Jerusalem.

        There is stern instruction for watchmen that you clearly understand.

        If you do not warn, the blood of those who should have been warned by you will be on you. But if you warn, and those hear the Warning do not act, their blood will be on their own heads.

        I challenge not out of unrepentance, and not because I desire to see you fail God.

        But because sometimes your comments can mislead unless you are challenged for a more detailed explanation.

        I may read your response again, I may ask further questions, but consider your many readers.

        Many years ago, I worked in a retail environment, they had a computerised accounting system.

        I wanted gain a little more understanding regarding what the program was doing.

        I enrolled on a basic accounting course.

        The lecturer kept starting an exercise with the statement.

        Your opening balance is. £xxx and you enter it here.

        This went on for a few weeks, everyone in the room reluctantly but obediently copied the instruction.

        I eventually asked the question.

        Where did the opening balance come from?

        There was a sense of relief in the room, everyone wanted to know, but all were afraid to ask.

        You have readers who may have the same questions as I but they might be afraid to ask.

        May the God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob grant you patience, in the name of His Beloved Son, The Lord Jesus Christ. Amen.

      4. Dear Allistar

        Shalom, and love in Jesus.

        There is never a bad question. But there are a lot of wrong answers.

        The problem I face with you, is that you reject salvation. You feel that you will be saved by Jesus one day into the future. By having this view on Biblical truth, you do not only deceieve your self. You also decieve others. And you continue to apply scripture wrongly.

        I have tried to make you understand, that salvation is today. Eternal life is today. Jesus has people in His service today. He do not put them to sleep.

        I have underlined that Elijah was saved, Moses was saved, Abraham was saved, etc. Salvation was available for for both Jews and proselytes of Judaism, before Jesus came in flesh. God (Father, Son and Holy Spirit) saved His servants before Jesus died on the cross.

        On the cross Jesus replaced the old system of blood sacrifice for forgivesness of sins, and optained an eternal victory over sin. He is, was and will forever be the Ressurection and life. You have used your understanding of salvation, to reject this.

      5. Peace to you Ivar.

        Somewhere in this thread you have been led to believe that I reject salvation.

        The Lord Jesus Christ taught His disciples and I have read what He taught.

        Now, concerning the law.

        Jesus taught

        27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
        28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

        I ask you this.

        It is written ‘thou shall not kill’

        Now if a man desires in his heart that another should die.

        Has he committed murder in his heart?

      6. Peace to you Ivar.

        In my previous response, I said I would look again at your comments and I have.

        You wrote.

        I have tried to make you understand, that salvation is today. Eternal life is today. Jesus has people in His service today.

        Let it me known, I fully understand that salvation is a gift from God, and was paid for the blood of the Lamb of God, His only begotten Son.

        Those who God draws to Him learn to understand what salvation is, and how it became available.

        Those who respond to Him learn through His Word and His law that they are not only guilty of sin, but, the wages of sin is death.

        However, the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. No dispute whatsoever.

        You say ‘eternal life is today’.

        True, but, earlier in this thread you revealed, that a persons ‘eternal life’ can be lost.

        There is the unforgiveable sin.

        A person can receive salvation and commit this sin afterwards and they are cut off.

        So although I agree that eternal life is today, those who are drawn by God into accepting their salvation by the blood of the Lamb must then learn to walk by faith in that salvation.

        You comment ‘Jesus has people in His service today’.

        I fully agree He does.

        Satan has people in his service today also.

        How does a person discern who is who?

  10. Nannette, it is a shame that you had so much of the Adventist years if schooling and now misrepresent their teachings, especially the role of Ellen White. Nothing I say will convince you otherwise . I only wish to go on record by saying much of what you wrote about Adventist so are based on hate and great misunderstanding of our beliefs.

    1. Dear Atl

      Shalom, and love in Jesus

      Ellen White seems to have had a lot of vision, that was not from God. When such stuff are presented as it is a message from God, these messages lead people astray. We call people who present these kind of visions in the name of the Lord, for false prophets.

      Of them these, was related to the rebuiding of Jerusalem:

      “In the year 1850 Bible scholars were teaching of the return of the Jews to Palestine and the restoration of Jerusalem. Here is what Mrs. White said about this: “I also saw that old Jerusalem would never be built up, and that Satan was doing the utmost to lead the minds of the children of the Lord into these things now in the gathering time, to keep them from throwing their interests into the work of the Lord and to cause them to neglect the necessary preparation”

      This is found in “Early Writings” page 75.

      (end of prophecy).

      For all who have seen good old Jerusalem being rebuilt, Elen White spoke pure non sense. Here claimed divine knowledge was an attack on the prophecies of Ezekiel, presented in chapter 35 and 36. Ellen White tried to make the Word of God null and void.

      If the SDA continue to claim this woman as one of their true prophets, it has to be branded as a non-Christian cult.

      1. The advice given by Paul must always be applied.

        The noble Jews of Berea listened and then checked the scriptures in private.

        The RCC uses the same names that are in the Bible but give them characteristics that the Bible does not support.

        Mary, RCC call her Queen of heaven, Mother of God, Our Lady, co-redeemer. To name those that come immediately to mind.

        Ivar has checked his scripture and shows us where they have twisted the truth and lead people astray.

        The names are correct, characteristics are not.

        The SDA keep the Sabbath but were led by a false prophet.
        A wolf in sheep’s clothing.

        The scriptures teach that there will be many more, some reveal the identities of false teachers and false prophets and can be identified as false themselves.

        For this reason, all should test the spirits. All should learn to hold fast that which is good and let go that which is evil.

        If a person were to simply dismiss the RCC, they would dismiss Jesus Mary and others.

        Better to keep the names, drop the Dogma and seek the truth from scriptures.

  11. Alistair

    Hebrews 1:8-9 quotes Psalms 45 as referring to Jesus Christ.

    A couple verses later Psalm 45:10 you will read  “At Your right hand stands the queen in gold.”

    Hebrew says Psalms 45 is referring to Jesus Christ and Psalms 45 says a queen is standing at His right hand.

    Do you have another interpretation?

    Also:

    Revelation 12:1-6

    Who is the woman that gave birth to a son, a male child, who is to rule all the nations with a rod of iron; and her child was caught up to God and to His throne.

    This woman is wearing a crown with 12 stars. Queens do wear crowns.

    Are you saying the woman wearing a crown can not be Mary?

    We believe Blessed Virgin Mary gave birth to a son, a male child, who is to rule all the nations with a rod of iron—-

    And yes we also know that Israel is the woman because the Book of Revelation can be interpreted in more than one layer.

    1. Peace to you.

      The Bible teaches

      2 Timothy 3
      16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,

      The RCC does not have doctrine, it sets out Dogma and then sets about making scripture support it.

      Of course you have been taught believe Mary gave birth to a son.

      Matt 24 v 5 reveals that many will bear witness to the above, that does not mean that what they teach is accurate.

      You have been taught that Mary has the title queen of heaven.

      And from that the references given concern her.

      Was it not recently the celebration of the assumption?

      This is the Dogma that mary went to heaven.

      If mary went to heaven and also the wilderness, then either the RCC believes heaven is a wilderness.

      I believe there is only one interpretation, but I believe there are many who have attempted to interpret Revelation, but the truth is not in them.

    2. Peace to you.

      An additional thought.

      Rev 19 v 7 and Rev 21 v 9 Refer to Jesus – the Lamb of Gods wife.

      As Jesus is to be crowned King of kings and Lord of lords and He has a wife, surely His wife will be Queen.

      Does that mean He will marry his mother?

      The RCC having given Mary a title that the Bible does not give her, leads it’s adherents down the wrong path.

      1. Bathsheba went to King Solomon to speak to him about Adonijah; the king got up to meet her and bowed before her; he then sat down on his throne; a seat was brought for the king’s mother, and she sat down on his right.  1 Kings 2:19

        The title Gebirah (Gebira), meaning “Great Lady” or “Queen Mother” was a royal title and an office which was bestowed upon the mothers of the Kings of Israel.

        The royal kings of Israel and the House of David had many wives and no single wife of the king had the influence that his mother enjoyed as the chief confidant of her son. The mother of the king son was the queen.

        Jesus Christ is the heir of King David, He is the fulfillment of the covenant promises made to David in 2 Samuel 7:16

        Mary’s son rules from the Kingdom of the heavenly Jerusalem.  Catholics believe it is fitting that His mother should enjoy the same role that other Davidic Queen mothers enjoyed.

        It is in this sense that Catholics call her “the Queen of Heaven” and not in the pagan sense of that title as it is translated in English and found in Jeremiah 7:18

      2. Dear armorrcc

        Shalom, and love in Jesus.

        You wrote:

        It is in this sense that Catholics call her “the Queen of Heaven” and not in the pagan sense of that title as it is translated in English and found in Jeremiah 7:18

        My reply:

        I was wrong in letting you off the spam filter. There is no sign of repentence. You continue to lie.

        The Catholics do not compare Catholic Mary to the mother of King David. There is absolutely noboddy who make staues of Bathsheba. No one who pray in her name. No one who claim she was sinless.

        The pagan Queen of Heaven was the “mother of gods”. This is almost the same title as the Roman Catholics have given Catholic Mary. In Catholic theology Mary is the “mother of God”. To use Bathsheba to justify the Marian idolatry of the Vatican is both silly and shameful.

        You have earlier promised to leave this site, and not return. Now at last keep your promise.

  12. GREAT COMMENT ALISTAIR ;” WILL JESUS MARRY HIS MOTHER?”.
    RCC come out from darkness!
    Thanks Ivar for this website.
    GOD of Truth; keep giving you all strength and perseverance …….

    1. Ronnie

      As indicated above King Solomon was not married to his mother, but his mother was Queen Mother.

      The Hebrew word “gebirah” is found 15 times in the Old Testament and can be translated as “Queen Mother”

      It is absurd that you think it is Catholic believe that Jesus will marry Blessed Virgin Mary.

    2. peace to you.

      I offer apologies for my remark.

      I stand by the point I raised, but I did not make it for others to be entertained.

      Alistair

  13. Thank you for this article! I a a late reader to this one.

    History of all kinds is so very important. I love history and seek to know much more Jewish history so I may read God’s Word in context and see His truth. I love reading God’s Word after a history lesson like this! Shalom and Peace Ivar!

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