The Catholic Church is a pagan cult

The Catholic Church today doesn’t come from God’s word. It comes from that cult-like, pagan religion.

No Pope will be permitted to preach in First Baptist Church in Dallas as long as Pastor Jeff is the shepered.
No servant of the Pope will be permitted to preach in First Baptist Church in Dallas as long as Pastor Robert Jeffress  is the shepered.

These are the words of Pastor Robert Jeffress at First Baptist Church in Dallas, Texas. In 2011 Jeffress preached that Catholicism is a product of a “Babylonian mystery religion” that corrupted early Christianity.

The early church was corrupted by this Babylonian mystery religion and today the Roman Catholic Church is the result of that corruption.

Much of what you see in the Catholic Church today doesn’t come from God’s word. It comes from that cult-like, pagan religion …

Isn’t that the genius of Satan?

If you want to counterfeit a dollar bill, you don’t do it with purple paper and red ink. You’re not going to fool anybody with that. But if you want to counterfeit money, what you do is make it look closely related to the real thing as possible.

And that’s what Satan does with counterfeit religion. He uses, he steals, he appropriates all of the symbols of true biblical Christianity and he changes it just enough in order to cause people to miss eternal life.

The Dallas pastor has gone after religions other than Mormonism. On Sunday, he described Islam and Hinduism and Buddhism as “false religions.” In 2011 Jeffress for calling Mormonism a cult and saying that Mitt Romney is not a Christian.

Source: Politico.com

My comment:

Not all leaders of mega churches are false Christians, and preachers of the counterfeit prosperity gospel. There are also leaders of large churches who still warn against the Pope as an antichrist in the flesh. Baptist leader Robert Jeffress is one of them.

 Psalm 119: 88-93

In your unfailing love preserve my life,
 that I may obey the statutes of your mouth. Your word, Lord, is eternal. it stands firm in the heavens.
 Your faithfulness continues through all generations. You established the earth, and it endures.
 Your laws endure to this day,
 for all things serve you.
If your law had not been my delight,
 I would have perished in my affliction.
 I will never forget your precepts,
 for by them you have preserved my life.

All true evangelical Christians will claim that the Bible alone is the highest authority in all matters related to the Christian faith. The Pope demands that all Christians shall accept the Roman Catholic dogmas as an equally valid source of authority.  Where there is a slight disagreement about matters of true faith, the Pope are elevated as the highest authority. The Pontiff simply claims to be infallible in his understanding of the scriptures.

The Pope has cancelled and set a side important parts of the word of God. Like God alone being “The Holy Father”. The Holy Spirit alone being the replacement of Jesus, the “Vicar of Christ”. The Pope rejects that no created being can be branded as sinless. The Bishop of Rome also demand that people shall pray to departed souls a grave sin according to the Bible.

Surely the Pope is the man of lawlessness and sin, found in several books of the Bible. Like the book of Daniel, the letters of the apostle Paul and the book of Revelation.

If you cant accept this truth, you are spiritual blindfolded. If you accept the Pope as a Christian leader,  you have listened to false teachers, and have been royally deceived. Repent, and flee from such servants of Satan.  Serve Jesus of the Bible alone. Obey, trust and rely on him, only. Amen.

Written by Ivar

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201 thoughts on “The Catholic Church is a pagan cult

  1. I still wouldn’t trust the guy. He seems like one those counterfit anti- counterfit. aiming at the catholic church with rubber bullets. Like since when do christian symbols save anybody? The bible points at money as the great corruptor. Chasing some mystery babylon religion just sends people off on a fools errand.

    1. Dear Ed Jones.

      Shalom, and love in Jesus.

      You wrote:

      I still wouldn’t trust the guy. He seems like one those counterfit anti- counterfit. aiming at the catholic church with rubber bullets.

      My comment:

      Do not trust me either. But trust Jesus, and obey the Word of God.

      Ps. Evan pagans understand, that the Catholic Church defame Jesus of the Bible. That many claimed to be Christians do not understand this, is a spiritual tragedy.

    2. Good one Ed, I flat out don’t trust him either. While he lampoons the pope and Catholic Church for negating many parts of the bible, he and his denomination have done the same thing, just not to the extent the idolatrous Catholic Church has.
      It is better to serve God than man. It is also better to be taught of the Holy Spirit of God than listening to some guy in a pulpit, and swallowing what he says hook line and sinker.

      1. Who said I was denying it? I haven’t even read what you posted, but I am no stranger to the intrigues and machinations of the Jesuits.

  2. The Black Pope’s Irish Massacre of Protestants (1641-1649) 1 of 2
    by Islandretreat

    The Black Pope’s Irish Massacre of Protestants (1641-1649) 2 of 2
    by Islandretreat

    “God Bless You” Cromwell for saving us from Absolute Genocide by the Holy Roman Catholic Church. If you hadn’t rescued the Irish Protestants both sides of my family would have perished.

      1. My Irish ancestors likely would have as well. I also trace two of my lines back to French Huguenots (Protestants) who were persecuted by Papists in France before fleeing to England.

  3. Not all pastors of megachurches are false prophets. I am a missionary Baptist and stand with the Church. I am a big fan of Pastor John Hagee who leads Cornerstone Church in San Antonio.

    There is widespread corruption and paganism in the Catholic church. I believe the great city Babylon that Jehovah burns to rubble in Revelation is the Vatican. Jesus will call the faithful out of the harlot whom the world committed fornication with.

    The Catholic Church is unclean after the Pope has opened the doors to Qu’ran-toting Muslims. (devil worshippers)

    Come, Lord Jesus, come.

  4. I’m not a pagan but an Protestant Scot Irish Baptist Oath Keeper. It’s simple to me that you deny the truth because you can’t handle the truth thus you call me a pagan.
    Semper Fi

  5. The Roman Catholic “church” is not alone in un-Biblical teaching but the horrible and bloody crimes of this odious counterfeit is ongoing. Should the Vatican repent openly of past crimes, eschew political machinations, vow to teach the Bible and vigorously fight corruption in its ranks, bringing criminals to justice (and that would be an extremely unlikely series of pronouncements) it MIGHT be possible to accept that they are really disciples of Christ. Given the RCC’s present state, I cannot imagine how anyone who counts himself / herself a Christian could attend or support it.

    1. Dear job3627

      Shalom, and love in Jesus.

      You wrote:

      Should the Vatican repent openly of past crimes, eschew political machinations, vow to teach the Bible and vigorously fight corruption in its ranks.

      My comment:

      In some other words: “If the Catholics becomes protestants, than…”.

      1. They would also need to drop some of their pagan/mystical teachings like “Transubstantiation” and worship of “sacred statues” and the bones of dead people.

  6. Interesting to me that, even though mr Jeffress points out the truth, in that catholicism is totally pagan, even the church of mr Jeffress doesnt honor Gods Sabbath Day. If all Ten Commandments stand ‘Forever’ (as Psalm 119 correctly says) why do so many religions of the earth forsake His Holy Day, the Lords Day and flock to the pagan sun (not Son) worship day? The day (sunday) in which is the mark of catholicism, the mark of that evil beast. And yes, even rome does admit this: catholic encyclopedia, volume 4, page 153 ‘Changing Sabbath to Sunday’.

    1. “Visitor to Earth,”

      The early Church did NOT insist that anyone, least of all, Gentiles, keep the Sabbath of the Jews. It was the custom of the early Church to meet on the “Lord’s Day” (that is, Sunday, the “first day of the week”)–see Acts 20:7. It is assumed that the Jewish believers in Jesus attended the synagogue on Saturday and then met with others in the Body of Christ on Sunday. Many early believers met in their house churches every day for prayer and teaching on the Scripture. Much of this teaching would have been led by learned Jewish believers and they were not permitted to be openly out and about and meeting with Gentiles, of all people, on the Jewish Sabbath. These early Jewish Christians would have been afraid of reprisals from the non-believing Jews were they seen associating with Gentiles–especially on the Sabbath.

      Jewish Christians were the first martyrs in the Church. One of the first controversies was over some Jewish Christians insisting that one needed to observe all of the Law of Moses in order to be a believer in Jesus. Paul and others opposed this attempt to “Judaize” the Gentiles. It is not wise for you to head in that direction either. The matter was settled about 2,000 years ago. Even Jesus upheld all of the Ten Commandments except one–Sabbath observance. He said that “the Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath”. The man-made extreme Sabbath observances of His day were an impediment to the true worship of God “in Spirit and in Truth”..

      1. Better, this matter was settled at Creation (Gen 2:2-3). The Sabbath is commonly confused with the jewish sabbath which are throughout the yr on various days, this has nothing to do with the Sabbath of God. Sabbath is for Christians – sun (not Son) day worship is strictly for the recognition of catholic authority. You are correct about ‘man-made extreme’, this is not the Sabbath of God, which is ‘a delight’. Seriously Sir, do a lot more studying on this one. It is a Commandment, the longest one, the one that starts with ‘Remember’ and you have already forgotten.

        Remember the words in 1 John 2:2-3 and pray on and rethink your day of worship, hopefully it will be the same as HIS Day (Luke 4:16).

        Maranatha Sir!

  7. “Visitor to Earth,”

    The early Church did NOT insist that anyone, least of all, Gentiles, keep the Sabbath of the Jews. It was the custom of the early Church to meet on the “Lord’s Day” (that is, Sunday, the “first day of the week”)–see Acts 20:7. It is assumed that the Jewish believers in Jesus attended the synagogue on Saturday and then met with others in the Body of Christ on Sunday. Many early believers met in their house churches every day for prayer and teaching on the Scripture. Much of this teaching would have been led by learned Jewish believers and they were not permitted to be openly out and about and meeting with Gentiles, of all people, on the Jewish Sabbath. These early Jewish Christians would have been afraid of reprisals from the non-believing Jews were they seen associating with Gentiles–especially on the Sabbath.

    Jewish Christians were the first martyrs in the Church. One of the first controversies was over some Jewish Christians insisting that one needed to observe all of the Law of Moses in order to be a believer in Jesus. Paul and others opposed this attempt to “Judaize” the Gentiles. It is not wise for you to head in that direction either. The matter was settled about 2,000 years ago. Even Jesus upheld all of the Ten Commandments except one–Sabbath observance. He said that “the Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath”. The man-made extreme Sabbath observances of His day were an impediment to the true worship of God “in Spirit and in Truth”..

    1. No early church had to insist, it was fact that everyone kept the Sabbath! First off, there is NO Scripture where the Lords Day has been changed from Isaiah 58:13, Gods Holy Day, the 7th Day, the Sabbath. Second, it was not their ‘custom’ to meet on the 1st day, on the contrary, please see Luke 4:16 (Christ IS Sabbatarian, so are Christians). So they ate together on the 1st day, is this reasons to change a Command of the Almighty? I am quiet sure they ate most days, often together.

      And finally, ‘Sabbath made for man’-yes, this is true. In breaking away from the Jewish legalism, Jesus showed that the Sabbath is for keeping Holy (1st) but that doing good was also appropriate. See, so many have the old Jewish traditions still in their minds when the Sabbath is discussed. Sabbath was at Creation, therefore NOT Jewish, it was established well before Abraham (Gen 2:2-3), and will be continued in Heaven (Isaiah 66:23). Now, Jesus says ‘IF you love me, keep my Commandments’ – John 14:15, are you gonna say ‘yes, all but one, because i keep the pagan day of the sun (not Son), which rome commands’. Because this is the mark of rome.
      Further, ‘he who says ‘i know him’ but does not keep my Commands is a liar, and the truth is not in him’ – 1 John 2:3-4.
      Sir, in Revelation 14:6-12, there are 3 angels, each with a message right before the King comes to get His children. The 1st gives us a reminder of proper worship by reciting the 4th Commandment. the 2nd tells of fallen Babylon (rome). the 3rd tells us not to receive the mark of that beast, which is sunday worship or improper worship. Please do not go the way of Cain and teach this blasphemy that sunday worship is acceptable to the Lord. Many sunday worshippers will be in Heaven, but not those who have heard what you have heard.
      Gods best to you and yours Sir.

      1. I never thought of all the things that you just wrote. It is surely worth looking into. Thank you. Wow. I am numb just thinking about all that you just wrote. If this is true, it only gives credence to what the bible says would happen as in everyone following Catholicism and its foundational fallacies. Very in depth info you have provided.

      2. If what you say is true, Visitor to Earth, then why did the Jerusalem council (see Acts 15) not mention that to the Gentile churches? The only instructions they gave was to abstain from eating meat sacrificed to idols, from sexual immorality, and from consuming blood or the meat of strangled animals. They also said (vs. 8-10), “God knows people’s hearts, and He confirmed that He accepts Gentiles by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He did to us. He made no distinction between us and them, for He cleansed their hearts through faith. So why are you now challenging God by burdening the Gentile believers with a yoke that neither we nor our ancestors were able to bear?” One of the reasons why Israel was punished was because of their Sabbath-breaking.

        The Sabbath rules, contrary to what you have said elsewhere, were not established by Moses til the Exodus.

        The Lord’s Day was celebrated on Sunday from the early days of the Church. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lord%27s_Day

      3. Visitor to Earth,

        You are misrepresenting what Revelation 14:6-12 says. It says nothing of Sabbath observance.

    2. Sorry, I am Visitor. This is my weekend mail.
      Anyhow, again no Christian was insisted upon because that was always the Lords Day. You have mentioned the 1st day repetitively, why, is a picnic enough to change a Command of God? Nowhere, i repeat, NOWEAR is there an indication that the Creator ‘changed His mind’. So quit with the ‘jewish’ mess, this has already been addressed!
      So answer a quick question, before you decide to speak to me again: is it safe to assume that you support the ‘Holy 9 Commandments’?
      My guess is that God is thankful for you for showing Him that His longest, Holy Day is not needed any longer. You have taught Him that jews would really rule and His Day of Worship, since Creation, is no longer necessary.

      1. “Jewish mess”? Not sure what you mean by that but I will not debate this issue further with you. Please see my response to Ivar below.

  8. To: Job 3627

    If the Lord calls the Sabbath a ‘delight’ and ‘perfect’ and ‘everlasting’, what in the world could allow a man to think that He is changing His mind?

    The sabbaths that Paul was addressing ‘do not let anyone judge you on the meat you eat nor the sabbaths you keep’ – were one of two : they were either the annual sabbaths, which landed on various days throughout the year and have nothing to do with His weekly Sabbath. Or, the one i believe more, Paul was giving a letter of encouragement to the Colossians. Paul was talking to clean meat eating, proper Sabbath, 7th Day keeping Christians and he was admonishing them to keep doing what they were doing, dispite the others pushing for other ways of worship.

    Remember Sir, ‘I am the Lord, I change NOT’! Jesus is a Sabbatarian (Luke 4:16), as a Christian, the Sabbath will FOREVER remain Holy!

    and questions that you do have can easily be found at sabbath truth website. and dispite popular belief, this is NOT a SDA website, there are 7th day presbeterians, 7th day baptists, and many other Commandment following Christians churches. many are waking up to the fact that rome has fooled so many into thinking that sunday is the right day and Scripture simply does NOT support this. you can worship our Lord any day, true, but there is only ONE Sabbath, and that will forever remain the 7th Day, the Only Holy Day.

    any and all questions will be gladly and Scripturally answered,
    thank you Sir.

    1. Jesus was Jewish–of course He was a Sabbatarian! We are not Jewish. Jewish people SHOULD have Sabbath observance–God told them to do it when He rescued them from slavery in Egypt. I agree, there is but one Sabbath and that is Saturday–the seventh day of the week. But when were New Testament Gentile believers told to observe the Sabbath? Plenty of Christians now and in the past observe a day of rest on Saturday and then worship on Sunday. Do you have a problem with that?

      A pretty thorough examination of the “Lord’s Day”: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lord%27s_Day

      1. Oh fun fun fun! you really do not get it yet!
        The Bible explains that there is neither jew, nor gentile, so stop with the silliness. The Sabbath is a moral law the the Lord, God Almighty established at Creation. Don’t believe? Read before Ex 20, before the Commands were given, when God did not allow them manna on the Sabbath! Then read in the NT, when Jesus was prophesying about the destruction after His death ‘pray your flight be not in the winter nor on the Sabbath’, in 70 AD!!!
        Please read the Sabbath Command (not suggestion, not idea, Command) about how to honor the Lord of the Sabbath! then ask ‘why am i so deceived by catholicism that i will not honor the Lords Day’ ?
        you Sir, have been taken on a long, deceptive journey of lies!

        again, please address any questions or comments to me, i will so my best to assist you in showing you that sunday worship is NOT of the Lord!

        Gods best!….

        tony

      2. Dear Tony.

        Shalom, and love in Jesus.

        You wrote:

        Then read in the NT, when Jesus was prophesying about the destruction after His death ‘pray your flight be not in the winter nor on the Sabbath’, in 70 AD!!!

        My comment:

        The Bible is a book written by Jews, who had made the complete and perfect Jew their God and Master. If people reject that Jesus is talking about the Jewish Sabbath, they accept the authority of the Pope. The Papacy changed the sabbath to be honored on the day of the Sun. The day the Romans worshiped their ‘god” Jupiter. The Pope still sit in the Chair of Jupiter, in his Temple in Rome.

        It is likewise not wrong to Celebrate “The Lords day”. The rissen Messiah appeared to His deciples, on the first day of the week. The day of the roman ‘sun god”, sunday. We can not claim that this was the sabbath, because that would be a lie. And to think Jesus will only appear on the “sun day”, and that God demand religious services in his name on that day, is a dangerous Roman Catholic inspired deception.

        So let us all praise Him. Every day is a Sabbath and a Ressurection day. He is our eternal peacemaker, the Sabbath Shalom!…He gives us peace with God of Israel every day!…

      3. Dear Job3627.

        Shalom, and love in Jesus.

        You wrote:

        Jesus was Jewish–of course He was a Sabbatarian! We are not Jewish.

        My comment:

        We who are not Jewish, claims to be transformed into His likelness. To walk on Earth as Jesus did….

        If so, we must at least accept that we are gentiles, grafted.

        We are not under the law, but under grace. We have been forgiven because we are not able to to follow the law. A Jew named Jesus took mine and your place on the Cross, to pay the penalty we deserve. We are lawbreakers and lawless men. But through Him grafted into the commonwealth of Israel, and partakers in the promise of salvation.

        I am not able to obey the law. I am in need of mercy and grace. But I can not mock the law, or try to set it aside as something “Jewish”. In the sense: Only to be followed by Jews. And in particular by Jews who accept Yehsua (Jesus) as the Messiah. Why should they honor the Sabbath, and not we? Are the 10 commandments only for Jews?

  9. Mr Job!
    Thanks for your reply, though misleading. As your answer to Mr H, Sabbath was established at Creation! Why do you always insist further proof? Is the Bible not enough?
    Where do i start?? anyhow, Yes, the Sabbath has ALWAYS remained, have you not read ‘I am the Lord, I change not’? and why are you so bent on maintaining a day established and set aside for pagan worship? Are the Holy Ten not clear enough? And it is not what i say, the SABBATH was established in Gen 2:2-3. why is this so difficult to believe? Maybe because you fail to look up: Catholic encyclopedia, Vol 4, page 153, ‘changing of the Sabbath’.

    1. Tony You need to keep things in perspective. Sure it says there is neither Jew nor Gentile…you are all equal. But it also says The very Word of God was given to the Jews. Romans 3;1-2 What advantage is there being a Jew? Much in every way! First of all the Jews have been entrusted with the very words of God.

      But we are all equal in the sense that those of us who were not entrusted with the words of God should not be treated like dogs. Or like In James 2;1 on favoritism, where the example not to follow was the rich man was treated with respect while the poor man was not. etc.

      1. Dear Ed Jones.

        Shalom, and love in Jesus.

        You wrote:

        ….Sure it says there is neither Jew nor Gentile…you are all equal.

        My reply:

        Yes, salvation is equally avalialbe in the Messiah. For both Jews and gentiles, for both the sexes, and also both free men and slaves.

        Many Jews thought salvation was only for Jews. That God of Israel was their God, and that only proselytes to Judaism could be saved. There came a millon Jews and proselytes to Jeruslaem to celebrate passover. The large camps of people must have a fantastic sight, the camps covering most of the close by hills of Samaria and Judea.

        3.000 of these Jews and proselytes were saved on the day of Pentecost. They heared the gosple from 120 Jews who had already been saved.

        It was a great revealtion for the Jewish apostles that salvation, later, also had come to the gentiles. It was totally unexpected.

        Acts 10:45
        The circumcised believers who had come with Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on Gentiles.

        Strangely enough, those who teach the false replacement theology has turned the true meaning of Pauls message completely around. Some of them even claiming that there are no Jews today.

        The Global Church of gentile belivers seems to be astonished when they discover that there can be Jews who believe in the Messiah….And that they celebrate the sabbath on the day of its origin. From the sunset on Friday, till the next sunset. These believers do not conform them selves to the doctrines of catholicism. They celebrate the feast’s of the Bible.

        It can never be wrong to live a Jewish life. The way Jesus the Messiah lived…

      2. Ed, I am sure you meant well but Sir, sorry to inform you, the Lords Day has never changed. I am not jew, actually they still are waiting for Jesus. They too have silly laws that are tradition, perhaps this is why so many are so confused about the Sabbath of the Lord. Please tell me, since the Sabbath was ‘given’ to the jews (true and Thank God, they have preserved it!) , are you ok with abandoning the other 9? Absolutely NOT! Do not confuse the jews sabbaths, which happened annually on different days, with the Day of the Lord, which happens every 7th Day.
        Keep it simple Sir, Read my other posts and you will see numerous Scriptures for what i am trying to remind Christians of: Christians have Ten Commandments, not 7,8 or 9! Or do you have an issue with the One who put the Bible together????
        End of the Sabbath was a couple hours ago, a day for family and the Lord! (please see Luke 4:16), no Sir, the Lord never changes, never. Sabbath will be kept by Christians in Heaven too (Is 66:23).
        Happy studies my Friend!

        tony

  10. Hi Ivar,

    You wrote: “We who are not Jewish, claims to be transformed into His likeness. To walk on Earth as Jesus did….If so, we must at least accept that we are Gentiles, grafted.”

    My reply: When did I ever say that we are not?

    You wrote: “We are not under the law, but under grace. We have been forgiven because we are not able to to follow the law.”

    My reply: And neither were most of the Jews. Remember, “For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it.” (James 2:10) Salvation was ALWAYS by God’s grace–for the Jews as well as we Gentile believers.

    You wrote: “I am not able to obey the law. I am in need of mercy and grace.”

    My reply: I sincerely hope you are not suggesting that the Jewish people are saved by their adherence to the Law of Moses. There are many Messianic believers in Jesus, who would be horrified by that suggestion. There are NOT two methods of salvation–it is always by grace through faith, “and not of ourselves that any man could boast.” “…Abram believed the Lord, and the Lord declared him righteous because of his faith.” (Genesis 15:6)

    You wrote: “But I can not mock the law, or try to set it aside as something ‘Jewish’. In the sense: Only to be followed by Jews. And in particular by Jews who accept Yehsua (Jesus) as the Messiah.”

    My reply: When did I EVER mock the Law? It is the standard by which unbelievers will be judged at the Great White Throne Judgment. Jesus said that “not one jot or tittle would disappear [from the Law] until everything has been accomplished”. ALL of mankind are natural lawbreakers ever since our ancestral parents, Adam and Eve, broke the first rule that was given to them by God. That is why we need a Saviour. “Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God’s sight by the works of the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin.” (Romans 3:20)

    But we (both Jew and Gentile) who are, by grace through faith, under the Blood of Jesus, have been pardoned and declared righteous. Those who will be judged guilty, will be judged on the basis of their sin–their infractions of the moral Law. Jesus said that those who have much sin will receive “many stripes” and those who are guilty of a little sin will “receive few”.

    You wrote: “Why should they honor the Sabbath, and not we? Are the 10 commandments only for Jews?”

    My reply: Because we have the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit, we are called to exceed the moral law. Jesus called us to love and pray for our enemies–as He did. Nowhere is that written in the Law of Moses. The Ten Commandments show us our sin.

    “But now apart from the Law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. This righteousness is given through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and all are justified freely by His grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement, through the shedding of His blood—to be received by faith. He did this to demonstrate His righteousness, because in his forbearance He had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished— He did it to demonstrate His righteousness at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus.

    “Where, then, is boasting? It is excluded. Because of what Law? The Law that requires works? No, because of the Law that requires faith. For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the Law.” (Romans 3:21-28)

    The reason why Messianic believers in Jesus (and I am honored to have some as friends) say that it is important for them to adhere to Sabbath observance is because that is part of their identification as Jewish believers and because they were commanded to do it until the End. This will be important as the Millennial age is entered. One of my Messianic friends is actually put off by Gentiles who insist on Sabbath adherence. Not that she looks down on Gentile believers–far from it–she simply believes that Gentiles don’t understand what they are doing. It is as if they are saying that the Blood of Jesus was not enough to save them.

    1. Ok, i will start half way down because there is a lot of wasted space and i will get straight to the point. After you wrote ‘My reply’, you seem to want to abandon the Law of God with the law of Moses. Can you really not see that there is a difference?
      I read where you have ‘issues’ with keeping the Sabbath of God, why? Perhaps because you have been listening to your jewish friend and do not understand it. Sure, jews keep crazy laws, like not pushing buttons in elevators, or talking on cell phones, a bunch of cultural traditions. To understand Sabbath, we need to look to the Creator of the Sabbath. Tell me, which other Commands are you having issues with? Surely if you have a problem with the Sabbath being in the Holy Ten, you have issues either with others or with the One who wrote them in this way.
      Yes, your friend looks down on gentile Sabbath keepers because your friend is still not even seeing the Messiah!
      Ok, again, to sum this up easily, just remember the words of John 14:15 ‘IF you love me, keep My Commandments’ No Sir, not 8 or 8 or 9, but all TEN.
      If you do not, that is fine. But rest assured, sunday worship is the mark of rome. I find it both interesting and sad that, on a website that is exposing rome, you proceed and insist on keeping the day that they claim is their mark in is in direct opposition to the Word of God Almighty.
      Good luck with that!
      Oh, i took so long because i enjoyed the Holy Sabbath with my family, just as my Creator Commanded me =)
      Christians just do these things.

      1. Tony,

        Your views on keeping the Sabbath make you sound like a confused Seventh Day Adventist legalist.

        The “Law of Moses” is a beautiful thing—when men regard it rightly. This is why the Psalmist can say, “O how I love Thy law” (Psalm 119:97).

        The “Law of Moses was not meant to save men, but to show them their need to be saved, and thus to lead them to Christ (Galatians 3:24).

        The Jews of Jesus’ day twisted the law, so much so that they considered themselves to be righteous, and yet they condemned Jesus as a law-breaker (especially in regard to the Sabbath—see John 5:16ff.; 19:7).

        This may help to explain why Jesus called the law “your law” in John 8:17, even as they called it their law (John 7:51; 19:7).

        There is a great difference between accepting the Law of Moses as God’s standard of righteousness, and making that same law the means to earning your own salvation, by the work of law-keeping. In Romans chapter 3, Paul made it clear that no one could be saved by law-keeping. So it is that when

        Paul refers to the “law” in Romans 7, he is referring to the “Law of Moses” or to the commands of God more generally in the Old Testament. Paul loved the “Law of Moses” when it was looked upon as “the law of God” and not as that set of laws that were twisted by the Jews into something they were never meant to be.

        In my opinion there is not a great difference between the “Law of Moses” and the “law of God” as mentioned in Romans 7.

        The difference is in how men looked upon that law. When they saw it is something one must keep in order to earn salvation (Jesus would call this “your law”), they were wrong.

        When they saw it as a standard of righteousness (Paul would call it, “the law of God”) which Jesus kept as the Son of God, and which the Holy Spirit strengthens us to keep (although imperfectly, see Romans 8:4) then they viewed it rightly.

        https://bible.org/question/what%E2%80%99s-difference-between-%E2%80%9Claw-moses%E2%80%9D-and-%E2%80%9Claw-god%E2%80%9D

  11. Hi Ivar,

    You said: “These believers do not conform them selves to the doctrines of catholicism. They celebrate the feast’s of the Bible. It can never be wrong to live a Jewish life. The way Jesus the Messiah lived…”

    My reply: Gentiles are not called to “live a Jewish life”. While it is not “wrong”, per se, my Messianic Jewish friend says that it is as though a Gentile believer would be saying that grace through faith and the Blood of Jesus is not enough to save him/her. A Gentile believer could convert to Judaism (and I am assuming they would retain their belief in Jesus) but he/she would be no more saved at the end of it, than they were when they first believed in Him.

    I have many generations of Protestants as my ancestors–I have several who were French Huguenots persecuted by the Roman Catholic “church”. It is mildly offensive that you suggest that I am “conforming” myself “to the doctrines of catholicism” if I choose to worship on a Sunday. It is my custom to worship God the Father and the Lamb of God every day. Am I legalistic about it–thinking that somehow one or another day of worship will get me more saved? No.

    I think it is wise to avoid letting hatred of the RCC cloud one’s vision as Christians.

    1. Dear Job3627

      Shalom, and love in Jesus.

      You wrote:

      I think it is wise to avoid letting hatred of the RCC cloud one’s vision as Christians.

      My reply:

      I never said that a gentile have to live a “Jewish life”. I wrote that is can never be wrong to live a Jewish life. Simply becasue Jesus the Messiah lived as a Jew.

      This has notthing to do with “hatrad towards Catholicism”. Nor about hatred towards any other faith society.

      1. Uh Sir, do you not see the Holy Ten Commands as Christian? It is a very serious mistake of you to label the Holy Sabbath of God as a ‘jewish life’. Jews still have crazy laws (pressing elevator buttons, fuzz on shirt being a ‘burden carried’, not being able to talk on cell phones). Or did someone mess up and it should be the ‘HOLY 9’? Seriously, i really respect your site, you show things that most dont have the backbone to show, but to limit God almighty, to minimize the Holy Sabbath, His Seal (yes, i can show proof of this too), to say the roman day of the sun is an acceptable replacement, is simply unlearned Sir. Please see Sabbath truth first, then pray on it. If this is not proof enough, see the ‘educated’ scholars of ‘catholic encyclopedia, vol 4, page 153’.
        The One Command that recognizes Him as our Creator, the One Command that represents the day of the sun (not Son), the one way they WILL receive world wide worship, is the day most Christians have forgotten. No wonder He began with ‘Remember’. and yes, you can worship God 7 days a week, only One Day is His Holy Day, and there is only One Sabbath Day. Please do a lot of study on it so to not forsake nor misrepresent it.
        wish you well, and thank you Mr Ivar!

      2. My apologies if i misunderstood your post. I was simply trying to say that the observance of God’s Holy Sabbath is not at all limited to the Jews. It is totally Christian.
        again, thank you for your site, it is truly a blessing from above Sir!

        tony

    2. A Christian keeps the Lords Ten. Is this an issue? are there more issues with the rest of them? is the day of rome, yes, of rome, that important to you?
      No Sir, you would not be a ‘legalist’, you would be a LOYALIST=)
      and yes, if you reread Rev 14, it is unmistakable that the first angel knew we would be neglecting His Holy Day, and would be calling us back to proper worship (see Cain and improper worship, or daniel or the 3 hebrews or…).
      Anyhow Sir, it is time to set yourself apart and be an example unto the world as someone set apart for the Lord of Creation!

      Gods best Friend! If this is not a help, i can go totally Scriptural for ya, and i pray that the Bible is your guide. just let me know.

      tony

    3. No offense meant please, that is rome’s constant cry. If Mr Ivar indicated that the day of the sun is conforming to the ‘doctrines of catholicism’ he is 100% Correct! You are not to blame, it is a ‘tradition’ and we know what the Lord says about ‘traditions’.
      The ‘mark’ of roman catholicism is, indeed. the false sabbath, sun (not Son) day worship. And no hate Sir, it is simply the Bible that teaches these truths!

      Gods best,
      tony

  12. Ivar, Hi Sir, i just read where you had the Sabbath mixed up. Remember, the Lord, God, said in Isaiah 58:13, that the Day, His Day, is the Holy Sabbath. Please do not mix your understanding of this direct Scripture up. In Daniel 7:25, it is obvious that the Lord’s Day is what rome is trying to change. Do not follow the day of the sun, the day of the papacy.
    Until you can find me direct Scripture where the Lord’s Day was changed, please do not misrepresent the Holy Sabbath with extra Biblical nonsense.
    All your answers, i can answer, or you can visit sabbath truth.
    This is a Command Sir, not a suggestion nor a good idea.
    I find it ironic that, on a site which exposes romes evils, you are supporting their mark.
    Please keep it basic and get back to Ecc 12:13.

    thanks Sir,
    Tony

    1. I think we’re all just confused which day you believe is the Sabbath. I’m pretty sure most everybody here thinks it is Saturday, the 7th day of the week.

      1. Yes indeed it is Ed, the Lords Day! but lets look further, there is proof that the day of ‘our ecclesiastical authority’ (spoken from rome) is the day of the sun.

      2. Sorry Sir, i did not see the ‘reply’. But to restate what i said below, yes, the Sabbath Day is the Day of the Lord. God only set aside One Holy Day, only used ‘Holy’ once in the Commandments, to describe His Sabbath, the Christian Sabbath. we can worship the Lord any day of the week, but do we really even keep sunday holy? the game is on, the lawn needs mowing etc. the Sabbath is His seal for His followers. see Sabbath truth, when you have time. do NOT let me, nor anyone else sway you, the Bible only Sir!

        Gods best,
        tony

      3. Your terminology is messed up. The Sabbath day is the regular Saturday rest day, the one prescribed in the ten commandments. There are other Sabbaths (rest days) in various Jewish feasts. The Day of the Lord is the Judgement day, the last day. The Lords day is Sunday, the day the Lord was raised from the dead.

  13. Jonah, my previous posts does more than cover your reply to me. Please keep reading Sir.
    Gods best to you and yours!

    tony

    1. And Jonah, to further your education, there are 7th Day Pentacostals, 7th Day
      Baptists, 7th Day Adventists, church of God and/or Christ that recognize the Holy Ten (not 9, as you are advocating), Christians.
      I am simply trying to get you away from the day of the papacy. Is rome really that controlling in your life? Rev 13 says it is.
      lean on the Bible Sir, all Gods answers will come with prayer!

    2. Upon further review Jonah, you have your laws mixed up! Psalms 119 is a wonderful, the longest chapter, review of the Lord’s Law, the Holy Ten! This is why God put the Commandments on stone. Aside from the wall in Daniel and the ground with Mary, God only wrote these 16 verses. Do you really want to alter and/or do away with the longest of them all? the One that begins with ‘Remember’?
      think on it Jonah,
      wishing you and yours well,

      tony

  14. ED, the Sabbath is the Day of the Lord! Read Isaiah 58:13.
    Do not confuse the 2. Satan has a counterfeit for every truth of God, this is one of the biggest!

  15. Ed, Please show me where, in Scripture, the Lord’s Day is the day He was resurrected? On the contrary, you can find how a Christian honors His death, burial, resurrection in Rom 6, Colosians, and 2 Peter, with full submersion baptism, something rome again has altered.
    Show me my ‘terminology’ mistakes Sir, please, i will wait.

    and from now on Ed, lets just stick with the Bible. it will be easier for me to justify all i have shared with you.
    So again, lets start with your ‘justification’ for sunday being something important. Scripture please…..

    1. Rev 1:10 is the only place that uses the term Lord’s day. Some translations say the first day of the week, which is Sunday, The day Jesus was resurrected.

      1. Sir, most translations are corrupt. I have numerous hours and studies to offer you for this, but again i can simply say that they have been altered by the jesuit priesthood in rome. Stick with the KJV or the NKJV. No, they are not perfect, but they surely steer you from the evils of the niv, esb, rsv, nab and many other bibles that are less than what He has prescribed and given us. Sir, while God can speak through every version, a Bible student is to dig into the meat and info issues deeper such as this. ‘changing the word’ and ‘battle of the Bibles’ are excellent resources for you to enjoy. the also have many more pearls of wisdom, comfort and intrigue.

        Thank you Ed for your desire to understand what our Father has offered us! And please, anything else to ask is surely ok. i will be up for maybe an hour or so.

        Gods best!
        tony

      2. It doesn’t matter though. The pope will swear up and down that the “Lord’s day” is Sunday. And the only place that uses the “Lord’s day” is irrelevant as to what day it is. The Apostle could have been worshipping on any day of the week since they did every day of the week. So it’s would help to minimize confusion to just let the pope have that one little victory and we can call the Sabbath day the Sabbath day. I have a 400 year old Geneva bible, it has interpretations in the margins and says “Some call the day Sunday” referring the the Lord’s day in Rev 1:10. But why would they call it the “Lord’s day” all of a sudden if it was the sabbath day when every other place in the bible calls the sabbath day the sabbath day? Do you think Jesus would want us to say Lord of the Lord’s day? Either drop the term completely or call it Sunday.

        And the “Day of the Lord” is always associated with the day of wrath or at least a day of wrath.

        Isaiah 13.9 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.

  16. No servant of the Pope will be permitted to preach in First Baptist Church in Dallas as long as Pastor Robert Jeffress is the shepered.

    This is posted on the above picture. Pastor Jeffress is a ‘servant of the pope’ because he honors the day of the papacy, the sun worship day, instead of the Day the Lord set aside for Christians, in His Holy Ten.

    …and all the world wondered after the beast…Rev 13. Mr jeffress is surely following suit.

    Issue with this statement? use the Bible and the Bible only. and take it up with the Lord of the Sabbath!

    1. Dear Tony

      Shalom, and love in Jesus.

      Yiu wrote:

      No servant of the Pope will be permitted to preach in First Baptist Church in Dallas as long as Pastor Robert Jeffress is the shepered. This is posted on the above picture. Pastor Jeffress is a ‘servant of the pope’.

      My reply:

      This is absolute non sense. Are you a SDA, who say that all who do not keep the Sabbath on Saturday will be sent to hell?

      1. I am a SDA. however, there will be many who keep sunday, who will be in Heaven. I am simply trying to inform all that the Sabbath of the Lord is not ‘jewish’ nor is it ended nor of non importance.
        Again, if the studies of sun worship day were complete, it would surely reveal that it is strait from rome.
        And yes Ivar, mr jeffress is a ‘servant of the pope’ . i can go deep into may doctrines that prove such but i just wish to focus on the Sabbath, since it is a COMMANDMENT.

      2. Dear Tony

        Shalom, and love in Jesus.

        I worship Jesus together with Christians on sunday’s also. Am I a servant of the Pope?

        You will have to answer this question from the editor.

      3. Sir, as far as i know, an SDA will NEVER condemn anyone to hell. We simply do not hold that authority. We do, however, understand how deeply most have been confused about the Commandments of God.
        I do not wish to be restricted from your sight, but i will not bend when it comes to Biblical truths.
        As for Biblical truths, Mr Jeffress is an agent of rome. This Sir, is too evident.

        God bless Mr Ivar,

        tony

  17. Ed,Sir, you said to ‘let them have this one little victory’. Uh Sir, this is the seal of God we are talking about her. Please do not misunderstand its significance! Please see Cain, or Haman, or 3 Hebrews in Dan 1-2, or Dan in Dan 6.
    This IS the biggest hoax in the world today! And NO! I will never give rome a ‘victory’ especially when it is something as important as my Lords Seal!
    is the 7th negotiable with your spouse? how about murder? and stealing?
    we are to regard each as especially important unto the Lord. but do a google search. notice how the Sabbath is in the Bible over 170 times. the 1st day, only 8 and none equate to changing His Holy Day.
    Do not conform Ed. A Christian stands his ground!

      1. Read Isaiah 58:13!!!!! Do you not comprehend english? Perhaps we can allow another language…

  18. ED, are the Commandments of God irrelevant? Who gives a flip what the pathetic pope says! and yes, they did admit this (catholic encyclopedia, volume 4, page 153, ‘sabbath to sunday’). So yes Sir, it is that important to a Christian.
    Further, the Bible never recognizes the day of the pope, sunday.
    The Commandment is thorough enough. I will keep the Holy Day of the Lord, and not the day of papal authority. This Sir, is straight Bible.

    tony

      1. Sorry to hear that. They thought the same of John the Baptist and Martin Luther, John Wycliff, John Huss, Calvin, Melanchthon, and even Jesus Christ!

        I wish you well. The next time you go ‘by the Word of God’ bring truth and truth only, the rest will not last.

        Gods best Sir!
        tony

  19. To All And Anyone Who Would Dispute God’s Holy Sabbath Day:
    I just read the post above, in the article where it has a quote from Psalm 119. It says : Your laws endure to this day,
 for all things serve you.
If your law had not been my delight,
 I would have perished in my affliction.
 I will never forget your precepts,
 for by them you have preserved my life.

    this means ALL TEN COMMANDMENTS!

    Anyone who tries to tamper with the Day of the Lord, the Sabbath, the 7th Day, is truly NOT a Christian.

    tony

    1. Tony,

      Your manic postings reveal that you are a member of a cult and have been duped by the lies of the false prophetess Ellen G. White.

      You ridiculously focus upon the Sabbath day and have twisted scripture in order to justify a works-based salvation. You base everything you have written here NOT on the Bible but on the lies of Ellen G. White and you are scared to death that if you miss going to church on Saturday that you will be thrown into hell.

      Let’s look at where your fear came from — from none other than your “god” Ellen G. White.

      Ellen G. White’s vision:

      “Then I was shown a company who were howling in agony. On their garments was written in large characters, “Thou art weighed in the balance, and found wanting.” I asked who this company were.

      “The angel said, “These are they who have once kept the Sabbath and have given it up.”

      “I heard them cry with a loud voice, “We have believed in Thy coming, and taught it with energy.” And while they were speaking, their eyes would fall upon their garments and see the writing, and then they would wail aloud.

      “I saw they had drunk of the deep waters, and fouled the residue with their feet — trodden the Sabbath underfoot — and that was why they were weighed in the balance and found wanting.” (Early Writings, p. 37).

      Give it up, Tony. You have been exposed as following a CULT.

      Jesus Christ became our Sabbath, the fulfillment of the Old Testament Shadow. We worship Him every single day, not just on Saturday.

      Stop adding works to salvation. You have been deceived and need to flee from the lies of SDA before it’s too late.

      1. Thank you, Jonah. You have expressed it well. The followers of Ellen G. White are, unfortunately, “straining at gnats, and swallowing a camel.”

      2. Job and Jonah,

        Interestingly, i knew nothing of Ms White when i isolated myself overseas and only studied the Bible. So pointing her out does nothing for or against me. I have yet to study anything of hers. There are hundreds, yes, i found that a high number myself, but looked it up, it is true, hundreds of denominations that keep all Ten Commandments. So while you both cast stones at anything to do with Ms White, Christians are focused on the Bible.

        So again, when God says something lasts forever, it means just that. Follow your pope day if you would like, but i will keep Holy the Sabbath of God. Now maybe you both should ask yourselves, if there is enough love for the Lord (John 14:15) because nowhere in the Bible will you find an abandonment of the Holy Sabbath. Actually, if you read 1 John 2, you will see that those who call out to the Lord and do not His Commandments is a ‘Liar and there is no truth in them’.

        So again, good luck with that!

      3. Focus on the Bible silly guys, the Bible only. Your ignorance of Scripture is extremely evident, so you attack something else you know nothing of. I have based all of my beliefs on the Bible only and now 2 who know nothing of the Bible try to question me from another angel.
        Again, Scripture is very clear 1 John 2 labels the both of you as ‘Liars’, so until you get that right with God, you should focus less on me. =)

      4. Amen on the ‘followers of Ellen G White’! I am a follower of Jesus Christ. Until you can show me my faults with His Holy Book, keep digging!

  20. Ivar, Sir, you wrote above how ‘every day is a sabbath’. Sir, do not minimize the Holy Day of the Lord! NO! everyday is NOT the Sabbath! that is a lie from satan himself!

    1. Wonder why God set the Sabbath apart as ‘His Holy Day’? Perhaps it is to tell who is Christian and who is not – 1 John 2.

  21. Tony,

    You said: “Read Isaiah 58:13!!!!! Do you not comprehend english? Perhaps we can allow another language…”

    Why should we respond to someone who says such rude and disrespectful things? Remember that Jesus said those who call others fools will be in danger of hell-fire. First of all, Isaiah 58:13 was written to the people of Judah–i.e. the Jews. You can tell this because, had you bothered to read further in the passage, you would see that he refers to “…Jacob, your ancestor…”

    Sunday was established as a day of worship very early in the life of the Church–well before catholicism reared its head. It really does not matter that the Pope called Sunday the Sabbath. The Sabbath remains as Saturday. I will not debate further with you as it is clear that your zealotry has blinded you to the truth of our freedom in Christ. “So Christ has truly set us free. Now make sure that you stay free, and don’t get tied up again in slavery to the law.” (Galatians 5:1)

    1. So Christ has set us free huh? What if your spouse breaks number 7 and tells you the same. ‘shall we continue in sin’ Pauls asks, ‘Certainly NOT!’.

      Simply put Sir, if God says something lasts ‘Forever’, only someone very limited would go against it. The Word is complete and Christians keep His Holy Commands.

      Nowhere in the Bible is the Sabbath ever abandoned. And contrary to your beliefs, sun worship day is, was and always be pagan.

      Again, it boggles my mind that so many are quick to point out the evils of catholicism and yet hold so tightly to the day rome has established. And if you can not find sunday worship in the Bible, well you are simply going in the same direction as Cain.

      This Sir, is from the Good Book.

    2. The ‘English’ thing was a bit harsh, my apologies. But when one refuses to follow direct Scripture, you have to wonder what spirit is in him. Obviously it is one of blindness or maybe disobedience or even something more twisted.

      I do get a little tired of listening to so many trying to justify the trashing of the One Day God did set aside for His followers in order to justify the day of the sun. Yes, it starts as interesting then turns to frustration with so many so blindly attending service on the day of the pope and ignoring direct Scripture.

      So tell me, in Isaiah 66:23, which Day do you think Christians will be celebrating in Heaven, in the very near future?
      the Day of the Lord or the day of the pope and catholicism?

  22. Have you noticed in Matthew 19:16-30, when the man asked Jesus how he could have eternal life, that Jesus said:

    “Keep the Commandments”. When the man responds in verse 18, “Which?”

    Jesus now recounts the moral commandments but He does not mention that the Sabbath must be kept.

    Nothing about the one ceremonial commandment.

    Keeping the Sabbath is a token/symbol

    The Commandments are listed again in Romans 13:8-10, but nothing is said about Christians are to keep the Sabbath on a Saturday. Jesus Christ is our rest.

    1. No, there are Ten. Or did the Lord mess that one up too?
      See, this morning i did not tell my children (ages 17 and 20) to not put their fingers in a light socket, this is simply common knowledge. The Lord had Sabbath established well before Mt Sinai and giving the Holy Ten. Notice in Exodus 16:26-28, God chastens Moses for not keeping His Holy Day. See, they were at Creation.
      You dont have to keep the Day of the Lord, totally up to you. But my question is, why is His Day such a burden to you all? Perhaps love is the issue-John 14:15.

  23. Ivar, the real question you have to answer, not i, is do you keep Holy the Sabbath. See, the Lord is offering the tree of life, in Rev 22, to those who ‘keep the Commandments of God’. So the real question is do you love Him? (John 14:15)

    Again, Christians can worship 7 days a week, but if we follow Him, we would naturally be Sabbatarian.

    And yes, according to the papacy, if we follow the day of the sun, instead of what the Lord Commands us, then we are giving our bow of obedience to the papacy.

  24. Many may disagree with what i have shown, but do so with Scripture please. I too was in shock about how wrong so many are when labeling a day as ‘Holy’. There is but One.
    Are Christians supposed to keep all Ten Commandments? I am sure most will try to justify going against them, but realistically, go one by one. They are not burdensome! And is the day God set aside such a burden that we will not budge when showing our Creator love?
    …as for me and my house…Joshua 24.

    Keep it in prayer everyone, pray for understanding as well.

    1. Tony,

      You replied on May 24, 2015 at 7:57 a.m. and said, ” I am a SDA.”

      But suddenly when your cult and false prophetess Ellen G. White has been exposed you now claim to not know anything about her writings? I’m not buying that story.

      Please stop frantically posting like a man who is drowning in a sea of lies. You have convinced no one.

      Take heed of Luke, chapter 13 and enter thru the narrow door which is Jesus Christ alone and not a works-based Ellen G. White door that leads to hell.

      “Someone asked him, “Lord, are only a few people going to be saved?

      “He said to them, “Make every effort to enter through the narrow door, because many, I tell you, will try to enter and will not be able to.

      “Once the owner of the house gets up and closes the door, you will stand outside knocking and pleading, ‘Sir, open the door for us.’

      “But he will answer, ‘I don’t know you or where you come from.’

      “Then you will say, ‘We ate and drank with you, and you taught in our streets.’

      “But he will reply, ‘I don’t know you or where you come from. Away from me, all you evildoers!’

      “There will be weeping there, and gnashing of teeth, when you see Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, but you yourselves thrown out.”

      1. I do not study nor care to study Ms White, believe what you want about me, not a problem. And dont waste time posting silly videos, i am sure this would apply to any church that there are faulty teachings.

        Now, back to the original subject! I see that you conveniently ignored everything about the Sabbath. Instead, each of your paragraphs was about your unlearned thoughts of what you assume i follow.

        Again, if you want to discuss Bible i am always ready for that. Until you can do so, i pray you get back to studying.

        1 John 2

      2. Interestingly sad how, instead of keeping with the subject (Ten Commandments and the Holy Sabbath) you quickly run to something that has nothing to do with the conversation.

        You mentioned me believing in ‘works’. So, are the Holy Ten Commandments works, according to you? Simple answer please, are they works? You may want to review Psalm 119 before answering to something that you obviously know little of.

      3. Dear Tony.

        Shalom, and love in Jesus.

        You need to cool down, and listen to the Lord of Mercy and Grace.

        First:

        Man is saved by faith alone, by grace alone, given by Jesus the Messiah, alone. And not by his struggle to keep the 10 commandments. I am sure you are a lawbreaker too. You might try your best not to do any kind of works on Saturday as the SDA has included as a condition of salvation. I do not doubt your struggle.

        But I am sure you also try your best to hide your shortcommings and compromises, even on a saturday morning. And when you do, you become a pretender. A hypocritical liar.

        You break the laws you do not agree with, and point fingers towards others. In your demand, that all Christians shall stop working on Saturdays.

        Second:

        Did you read what Jesus said? That a man can do good on the Sabbath, and even heal people? That the Sabbath was made for man, and not for the religious leaders, so they can put burden and yokes on people?

        Third:

        I am surely not a servant of the Pope. To claim otherwise, dsiplay that you have a long journey in spirtitual matters ahead of you. Before you will find true peace.

        To try to keep the Sabbath in a struggle to gain salvation, is nothing but another false gospel of works and self-righteousness.

        Ps. I do celebrate the Sabbath. From the sunset on Friday. Full of joy…

    1. While i do agree that everyone has their own ‘issues’ what i find sad is how you labeled the Holy Ten a ‘struggle’ when God clearly calls them a ‘delight’ and more than that! I agree with men being able to do god on Sabbath, this has no bearing on my previous statements. ‘your struggle’??? Not too sure what you mean about that, the Law of God is a delight!

      I have total peace in reality, yet i find it no problem to follow Eph 5:11 and call wrong, wrong. You can point at me, not an issue, what i will condemn is the telling anyone that the day of the papacy is a valid replacement for the Sabbath. Scripture alone is totally supportive of that.

  25. I expect then, that you will be following ALL of the law of God laid out in the Old Testament (because, remember that breaking any part of the law is the same as breaking it all.)–James 2:10. Isn’t animal sacrifice somewhat difficult for you? Deuteronomy 12:32 says, “Carefully obey all the commands I give you. Do not add to them or subtract from them.”

    1. Silly you say things like that. I guess you are unable to discern the many differences between the law of Moses and the Law of God. Obviously not since the sacrifices were not part of the Decalogue.

      Try again, way off! This is actually elementary Sir. Kinda thought better of you before you made this ridiculous comparison.

      I know, try to google the differences (many of them there are) between the two. This will surely help you in future discussions.

  26. The two terms are used interchangeably throughout the Old Testament. Did Moses invent the law? No, the Scriptures make it quite clear that the law of God was transmitted through Moses. Please see: Numbers 15:15, 16; 29:40; Deut 4:14; 6:25; Joshua 1:7; 8:31,32; 2 Kings 10:31; Nehemiah 8:1; 8:8; Ezra 7:6 and 7:9. Please pay particular attention to Deut 6:25 where it clearly states that Yahweh gave the law through Moses–that Yahweh was in command the entire time. Ezra, makes no distinction between the Law of God and the Law of Moses. In Nehemiah 8:1 it is referred to as the Law of Moses and in 8:8 it is referred to as the Law of God.

    God almost always spoke to the people through His prophets and on the occasion when He spoke directly to the people they begged Moses to ask God to speak through Moses because they were afraid. (See Deut. 5–please read it all)

    Finally, and then I am done with this conversation. If the Ten Commandments were so very much more important than the Law of Moses, why is it that Jesus in Matthew 22:36-40, when asked which of the commandments were most important, quoted NOT from the Ten Commandments, but from Deut 6:5 and Lev. 19:18? Jesus noted that, “All the other commandments and all the demands of the prophets are based on these two commandments.”

      1. Ummmm,lets keep this simple. Please read John 14:15. Then read Rev 22. Please read these and then tell me who really needs prayer.
        Someone who is advocating, standing for, the Holy Ten, or a farse.

        The choice is yours.

    1. My my, such shallow writings Sir! Ok, lets just go straight to the end, since it is when you are ‘done with our conversation’. Simply put, the 2 laws Jesus put forth is a summary of the Holy Ten. The first 4 are all about our relationship with our Creator. The last four are about our relationship with each other!

      Again, the simple question has to be asked, why do you bend over backwards to ‘protect’ the day of papal supremecy?

      When God says ‘Forever’ and writes it IN ROCK, you can bet that it is solid for eternity.

      Good luck to you and yours Sir! =)

      1. Sorry ‘the first four and the last six’, is how it should read. However this is not real important since a Christian keeps all Ten.

    2. in your last paragraph you fail to realize how much more the writings of God almighty are above the writings of Moses.

      Wow! i mean Wow! and you are ‘christian’? NOT!!!

      Your priorities are way off. Good luck with that one.

      1. Dear Tony.

        Shalom, and love in Jesus.

        Please stop writing so many comments. There is no need to keep on arguing with your self.

  27. Ivar, arguing with myself? You must not like the fact that i use strait Scripture to back up all of my points. Then i refute what you and others have written, so i am asked to write less. Very professional!

  28. Hi Ivar,

    You are probably already aware of this but this is from Dr. David Reagan of Lion and Lamb Ministries concerning the Seventh Day Adventists:

    “Another characteristic of SDA end time prophetic interpretations is Replacement Theology. They teach that the Jews got what they deserved in the First Century when God poured out His wrath in 70 AD on Israel and Jerusalem. They believe the Jews have been set aside as God’s Chosen People, and that the Church has replaced them, inheriting all the promises that were made to them in the Hebrew Scriptures.”

    You can read the rest of the article here: http://www.lamblion.us/2011/09/seventh-day-adventist-eschatology-anti.html

    Apparently, there was a book written several years ago that exposed SDA links to the Nazis and claims that they participated in Nazi atrocities, in Germany. The book further claims that they are virulently antisemitic to this day and have never repudiated the vicious antisemitism of Ellen G White:

    http://sdachurchhiddenholocaustclosets.blogspot.ca/

      1. ahh, back from vacation! it was great!
        now, i see above a lot of silliness, come now, actually believing in sda being in participation with nazis? think for a minute, any person from any denomination can do something dumb, is this to blame an entire denomination for? nonsense!
        and the ‘jewish mess’ i was referring to is the excessive laws in dealing with the Sabbath. the Sabbath of the Lord, the Lords Day, is surely NOT the same as the jewish sabbaths. the rules are just silly. not pushing elevator buttons, not talking on phones.
        while you can label me and pretend i have alterior motives, i am here for one thing and one thing only, that is to expose catholicism and to uphold Christianity. and that is what i will do! the Holy Ten, including His Sabbath Day, is the true Seal of God!
        Gods best to you Sir!

    1. God is not racist. while the jews were His method of bringing the gospel to us, there is no different between jew and gentile. what about this is difficult to understand?
      and the second paragraph is just funny! that anyone would waste time on that is surely not worthy of comment. i would NOT be Christians if i were to have any connecting to the nazi evil. so try another route job.

  29. Visitor to Earth,

    I have presented cogent arguments against SDA legalism. That you can not see the truth in what I have said is indicative of the grip that this cult has on you. The Bible CLEARLY teaches that there is a redemptive plan for the Jewish people and when you say that there is “no different between jew and gentile” (sic) you are dismissing this fact. Yes, Jews need to have belief in the Lord Jesus, their own Jewish Messiah, in order to be saved, but the Bible teaches that, “in the end, all Israel will be saved” . Your error lies in insisting that there is no difference at all. The same passage that you are referring to also says that there is no male or female either–and there isn’t, IN TERMS OF SALVATION. But that does not mean that there are not, in fact, differences in the ways that God has chosen to teach us. Otherwise, why does the Bible, at times, give separate instructions to men and women? Please do not be insulting if you give a response. I will not respond to further attempts to insult me, such as you did previously.

    1. is it ‘legalism’ or ‘LOYALISM’? see, non Christians always say ‘grace grace’ when it comes to the Holy Ten, they run because they do not have the love for Christ that a Christian does.

      ‘all Israel’ means spiritual Israel. this is basic. sorry to be insulting, never a need for that. but this is the same cop out that catholics will soon be using in reference to their non Biblical beliefs. that is why we are having all
      the ‘sensitivity’ issues now with the muslims. now with you too? man, makes me want to grab my Bible, thank God, and keep on studying =)

      and remember, in the end, those will say ‘Lord, Lord’ but if they do not keep my Commandments, they are what??? LIARS! that, of course, is from the Bible.

  30. Visitor to Earth,

    There is no warrant for selecting out what you call “The Holy Ten”–Jesus added much more to His commands. He said that it was not enough just to refrain from adultery but that it was even a sin to look at a woman with a lustful eye. He also said that those who called their brother a “fool” were in danger of hell-fire.

    There were Jews in Jesus’ day who were careful to keep every bit of the Law–down to giving even a tenth of their spices. But Jesus’ said that His disciples holiness must exceed that of the Pharisees. They were saved through the grace of God–NO ONE can meet God’s standards of holiness in anything we do. We must rely on God’s grace–just as you must. If you insist on living by the Law, then you will be judged according to ALL of Jesus’ commands.

    1. your last sentence said it all! and well said to you. i agree!

      now, understanding who He was talking to is a major part of this. the pharisees lived by the law and took it with pride. we are to live by the law also, this is simply not deniable. if you look at all ten, they are not burdensome. if i go down them, i have done very well today! as Christians grow, we do better daily. so while we do rely totally on grace, a Christian IS to also abide by the Commandments. the only one that most have a major issue with is keeping His Day, the Sabbath, Holy. most have this issue because of the lack of love for the Lord.
      Christ kept Sabbath. Christians, logically, should also.

  31. Visitor to Earth,

    You said: “…your last sentence said it all! and well said to you. i agree!” You apparently said in response to my assertion, “If you insist on living by the Law, then you will be judged according to ALL of Jesus’ commands.” You are then denying the grace of God in Christ and also denying the Bible when it says, “There is now therefore no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.” The Holy Spirit says in Romans 3:23-24, “For all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. Being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus.” I expect He really meant ALL when He said “all”. We are not saved by our works. “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith–and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God–not by works, so that no one can boast.” (Ephesians 2:8-9) ALL WHO ARE NOT UNDER GRACE will be punished for their infractions of the law and the only One who ever kept it perfectly is the Lord Jesus Christ. I praise Him that He made it possible for a sinner like me (and you, if you are truthful) to be with Him in Heaven. Amen?

  32. of course! what is not to agree with? but does this mean, as Paul would say, that we live (purposely) sinning? NO! therefore, i do thank Him, that i am Sabbatarian, as Christ is. i have forsaken the day of the sun and the pope (the ‘mark’ of rome). i do not purposely sin daily (or weekly). to forsake His Holy Day is to sin directly, as no Commandment is more important than the others. there are some that just regard them unequally. grace alone is what allows us the blessing of Heaven. yet, keeping His Commandments is proof of a Christian and allows us the tree of life (Rev 22).
    keeping Sabbath, is this legalism or loyalism?

  33. Visitor to Earth,

    Gentile Christians are not actually bound by the Ten Commandments–we are instead to follow the dictates of the Holy Spirit within us. Thus we see that it is simply not enough to avoid adultery, we must abstain from entertaining lustful thoughts and “coarse jesting” as well. It is not enough to avoid murdering, we must not curse our enemies and, instead, care for and pray for them. For a Christian, every day is a day dedicated to and set aside for worshiping the Lord. It became the habit of the very early Church to meet on the first day of the week for worship (the day of the Lord’s resurrection) but they also met frequently throughout the week.

    Most of what Jesus gave, in terms of instruction, while He was here on earth, was to the people of Israel. He was sent to call Israel back to devotion. He even softened the harsh rules of Sabbath observance by stating that the Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath–and He was clearly addressing the Jewish authorities in this. His address to them, pointed to the dangers of the legalism that was their fruitless obsession. The Jewish authorities thought that they were somehow spiritually better than those who were less scrupulous about their adherence to the minutiae of the Law. You only have to look at Jesus’ parable of the Pharisee and the Tax Collector (Luke 18: 9-14) to know that strict adherence to the Law affords nothing in terms of justification before God (and thus, salvation):

    “…To some who were confident of their own righteousness and looked down on
    everyone else, Jesus told this parable: ‘Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. The Pharisee stood by himself and prayed: “God, I thank you that I am not like other people—robbers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this tax collector. I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.” ‘But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, “God, have mercy on me, a sinner.” ‘I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For all those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.’ ” That is why Jesus’ disciples were so startled when He told them that their righteousness must exceed the righteousness of the Pharisees, who were known for their external adherence to every bit of the Law of God. But they neglected God’s commands of sincere devotion and love for their fellow men. Their hardness of heart was responsible for their rejection of Him.

    Had they recognized Him, the Kingdom (that had been promised to Israel for centuries) would have been ushered in and they would have become “the light to the Gentiles” that God the Father had intended them to be, at that time. Instead, when Israel rejected Him, the Gentiles were brought into the Church whose foundations were laid by the Jewish believers in Yeshua. But the Kingdom offered to Israel was only delayed. When the “full number of the Gentiles” have come into the Church, the Church, the Bride of Christ, will be removed to Heaven by the Bridegroom, before He rids the earth of unbelieving evildoers. Israel will, at that time, see their long awaited Messiah and become His.

    The only “rules” that the Jerusalem council suggested to the Gentile churches was that they, “…abstain from eating meat sacrificed to idols, from sexual immorality, and from consuming blood or eating the meat of strangled animals…” (Acts 15:20) When we get bound up in obsession with the Law, we risk the same hardness of heart of which the Pharisees were guilty. The early Church, which was in the midst of persecution by those very same Jewish authorities, well-understood that danger. They were being pitched out of the synagogues which was devastating for the Jewish believers in Yeshua. They were even being jailed. The early Jewish believers were utterly devoted to the Lord that the Jewish authorities professed to follow. Yet, the hearts of those religious authorities were so hardened (by their pride in their own adherence to the outward show) that they dared to persecute those whom the Lord considered to be His brothers.

    Insisting on adherence to every bit of the Law takes us into the realm of the great sin of Israel’s religious authorities, during Jesus’ first advent. It misses the whole purpose of Jesus’ call to His sheep. He is our righteousness–we have none of our own. The Apostle Paul said, in Romans 7:18, “For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.” If the Apostle Paul could say this, how can we dare to say that we are somehow better than him in our devotion to the Lord? Paul went to meet with early believers on Sunday: “And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.” (Acts 20:7) If it was good enough for the Apostle Paul, it certainly is good enough for us. Amen?

    Praying for you, Tony.

    1. dear job3627

      Shalom, and love in Jesus.

      You wrote:

      Gentile Christians are not actually bound by the Ten Commandments–we are instead to follow the dictates of the Holy Spirit within us…

      My comment:

      With all respect, this is a false doctrine that leads to lawlessness. The 10 commandments can only be set aside by false spirits, disquising them selves as the Holy spirit.

      The true Holy Spirit will reminds us about sin. We can only be reminded about sin, when we know the law, respect the Law, and try to avoid being lawbrakers.

      The moral law is still valid, and the 10 commandments should be followed by us all. Jesus the Messiah has not abolished the law, or set it aside. The only part of the law that Jesus has set aside, is the demand for blood sacrefices. He Him self being the perfect Lamb of God.

      1. Hi Ivar,

        I did not say that we were to ignore the Law–that would be foolishness. We are, of course, to exceed the Law, as the rest of that paragraph explains. But, obsession with the Law leads to pride. We have more than enough examples of that. And pride is very, very deadly.

        The moral law really applies only to those who are without the grace that comes from being under the Blood of Christ. As I said before, we are to EXCEED the demands of the law of God given through Moses. We have the law of love–written in our hearts by the Holy Spirit. An emphasis on law leads to the grotesque distortion of a John Calvin thinking that he was doing a service to God, to murder Michael Servetus, whom Calvin had determined to be a heretic. The law leads to death–but grace through the very Blood of God in Christ leads to the love of God and life everlasting.

      2. Dear job3627.

        Shalom, and love in Jesus.

        You wrote:

        The moral law really applies only to those who are without the grace that comes from being under the Blood of Christ. As I said before, we are to EXCEED the demands of the law of God given through Moses. We have the law of love–written in our hearts by the Holy Spirit.

        My reply:

        This is lawlessness in practice. I have heard many people say “The spirit told me”, when they have done something that mock or go against the written Word of God. The spririt do never tell people to set aside the Word of God, tell them to not know it, not fear breaking it, neither ignor it. We are called to known and obey the Word of God.

        Jesus the Mesiah, said the radical opposite. Those who love Him, will obey His commands. And He is the lawgiver.

      3. One afterthought, Ivar:

        You said: “…commandments can only be set aside by false spirits, disquising them selves as the Holy spirit.”

        My reply: Those who are truly in Christ are “sealed by the Holy Spirit” and are NOT subject to being deceived by false spirits. Jesus said that it was not possible for the elect to be deceived.

      4. Hi Ivar,

        After reading your post again, here is another thought:

        You said: “We can only be reminded about sin, when we know the law, respect the Law, and try to avoid being lawbreakers.”

        My reply: That’s not what the Holy Spirit said through the Apostle Paul In Romans 2:14-16, “Even Gentiles, who do not have God’s written law, show that they know His law when they instinctively obey it, even without having heard it. They demonstrate that God’s law is written in their hearts, for their own conscience and thoughts either accuse them or tell them they are doing right. And this is the message I proclaim—that the day is coming when God, through Christ Jesus, will judge everyone’s secret life.”

      5. dear job 3627.

        Shalom, and love in Jesus.

        You wrote:

        “Even Gentiles, who do not have God’s written law, show that they know His law when they instinctively obey it, even without having heard it.

        My reply:

        Here you add to scriptures, in a bid to defend a doctrine that will lead to lawlessness. There is nothing mention in the Bible, that the gentiles had started to obey the law, without knowing it. The call for baptism, is not a call to first educate, but rather to ask a person for commitment to the Messiah. After baptism, you educate a person to obey all that the Messiah have instructed us.

        To think that identification of repentance and next baptism of gentiles, are the end of the discipleship is typical for the Charismatic movement. Their pastors tell us that a person can be handed over to be taught by the “Holy spirit”. This is outright foolishness. The spirit rather confirms what you have read, and remind you about sin, which is transgression against the law.

        The gentiles who had recived the Holy Spirit, had heared the gospel being preached, as Jews preached to Jews. The Apostles thought that only Jews could (would) respond, and were astonished when they saw that the gentiles had respoonded. When they confessed faith in Jesus, and there was fruits of repentance, they concluded that the Holy Spirit had come on them. Therefor they were baptized.

        Acts 10:45
        The circumcised believers who had come with Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on Gentiles.

        The first baptism of gentiles, were not based on magic ” hocus pocus ” and wird manifistation of “the spirit”. There was a simple respons to the elementary teaching of the cross, and that Jesus had been rised from the death. The typical first fruits of the spirits is repentance from non-belief, an outburst of tears and joy because of salvation, followed by a clear cut confession of faith.

        The very next moment, the Jewish Apostles started to talk about what parts of Judaism the baptized gentiles should be taught to obey. They concluded that Non-Jews did not have to become kosher, nor did they have to be circumzied.

  34. Hi Ivar,

    You said: “This is lawlessness in practice. I have heard many people say “The spirit told me”, when they have done something that mock or go against the written Word of God. The spririt do never tell people to set aside the Word of God, tell them to not know it, not fear breaking it, neither ignor it. We are called to known and obey the Word of God. Jesus the Mesiah, said the radical opposite. Those who love Him, will obey His commands. And He is the lawgiver.”

    My reply: .Those who said those things to you are not really Christians at all–no true Christian would ever mock the Word of God. I have known a number of people like that and I can tell you that their lives were filled with secret sins. They are the ones who will likely say, “Lord, Lord…” They do not love God.

    What I have spoken of is not lawlessness–it is a celebration of our freedom from the penalty of the law WHICH WE ALL BREAK. We CANNOT keep the law perfectly and if we break it in any part, that is the same as breaking it all. The Apostle John says, “…If we claim we have no sin, we are only fooling ourselves and not living in the truth. But if we confess our sins to Him, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all wickedness. If we claim we have not sinned, we are calling God a liar and showing that His word has no place in our hearts…” (1 John 1:8-10)

    Galatians 5:22-23 says, “…But the Holy Spirit produces this kind of fruit in our lives: love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. There is no law against these things!..” The law is there to show us our sin–not to control us. Those who are in grace have submitted themselves to the leading of the Holy Spirit. Philippians 2:13 gives us a fuller understanding of what it means to be under grace: “For God is working in you, giving you the desire to obey Him and the power to do what pleases Him.”

    I would be a pretty pathetic Christian if I only sought to get by with obeying the law. Galatians 5:16-18 says, “I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.”

    1. Dear job3627

      Shalom and love in Jesus.

      You wrote:

      What I have spoken of is not lawlessness–it is a celebration of our freedom from the penalty of the law WHICH WE ALL BREAK. We CANNOT keep the law perfectly and if we break it in any part, that is the same as breaking it all.

      My comment:

      The Word of God says the radical opposite:

      Genesis 26:5
      because Abraham obeyed me and did everything I required of him, keeping my commands, my decrees and my instructions.”

      Why did God honor Abraham for obeying, and I should rather listen to your claim that it is not important to read, know and obey the commands of God?

      You seems to desire to do your own things, and brand it as “freedom”. Remember that Abraham obeyed the commands, decrees and instructions before the law of Moses was given. The Charismatic Church claims that those who obey the commands of God are “judaizers”, because they do not want to have anything to do with Judaism. Which they equalize with the Law of Moses, Biblical festivals, etc.

      This is a gross error. Because such claimed followers of Jesus reject the life, laws, culture and festivals upheld by their Master.

      Yes, it is true that we are not able to follow all of God’s instructions, and are in need of grace. But we need to do our best to please God, as Abraham did, by doing what the Lawmaker requires. And not to claim that lawlessnes is a form of “freedom” and godliness.

      1. Did Abraham obey God first or did God grant him grace because of Abraham’s faith?

        Genesis 3:6-10, “Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness. Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham. And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed. So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham. For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.”

        Abraham was saved by his faith, NOT his obedience (we know he was a sinner because the Bible tells us that he lied on several occasions). He was saved in exactly the same way that we are–not by his adherence to the law but by faith in the Holy One, the One who taketh away the sins of the world. Amen?

      2. Dear job3627

        Shalom, and love in Jesus.

        The Bible say that God honored Abraham for his obedience.

        Genesis 26:5
        because Abraham obeyed me and did everything I required of him, keeping my commands, my decrees and my instructions.”

        I have chosen to believe the written Word of God.

        Yes, Abraham was saved by grace, and by grace alone. But he feared God enough not to take grace for granted.

      3. When did I EVER say that “it is not important to read, know and obey the commands of God”?!

        You said: “You seems to desire to do your own things, and brand it as “freedom”. Remember that Abraham obeyed the commands, decrees and instructions before the law of Moses was given. The Charismatic Church claims that those who obey the commands of God are “judaizers”, because they do not want to have anything to do with Judaism. Which they equalize with the Law of Moses, Biblical festivals, etc.”

        My reply: I am NOT a Charismatic–I HATE the way many of them distort Scripture to engage in ungodly behaviour. It wounds me that you have seen me quote Scripture passage after Scripture passage and then lump me in with them. When did I EVER reject the life, laws, culture and festivals upheld by my Master Jesus? ?!

        You said: “Yes, it is true that we are not able to follow all of God’s instructions, and are in need of grace. But we need to do our best to please God, as Abraham did, by doing what the Lawmaker requires. And not to claim that lawlessnes is a form of “freedom” and godliness.”

        My reply: When did I ever claim that lawlessness is a form of “freedom and godliness”? I do not need to “do my best” to please God–“my best” would be of the flesh and that is worthless. It is God working in me giving me “the desire to obey Him and the power to do that which pleases Him.” (Remember Philippians 2:13?)

  35. Hi Ivar,

    You said: “Here you add to scriptures, in a bid to defend a doctrine that will lead to lawlessness. There is nothing mention in the Bible, that the gentiles had started to obey the law, without knowing it.”

    I did NOT add to the Bible–read it for yourself (and it would be best to read it in a version that you understand well). What I quoted is Romans 2:14-16 in the NLT. Here it is in the NASB which is, by many considered to be the most accurate in the English language. They are equivalent: “For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves, in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them, on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus.”

    I think you owe me an apology, Ivar.

  36. Those who are TRULY under grace are not subject to the law. Galatians 5:1,4 says: “So Christ has really set us free. Now make sure that you stay free, and don’t get tied up again in slavery to the law…For if you are trying to make yourselves right with God by keeping the law, you have been cut off from Christ. You have fallen away from grace.” And further down in the text, in 5:13, it says: “For you have been called to live in freedom–not freedom to satisfy your sinful nature, but freedom to serve one another in love.”

    That is the scandal and the glory of the Gospel of Christ. John 8:36: “If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.” And finally, James 2:12 says, “So whenever you speak, or whatever you do, remember that you will be judged by the law of love, the law that set you free.”

    Man is not very disposed to freedom, it seems. In seeking to enslave others (and that impulse comes from the pit of hell) he becomes a slave himself. Only the love of God can free us from slavery to the enemy of our souls. That is what the Blood of our Saviour bought for us. Amen?

    1. Dear job3627

      Shalom, and love in Jesus.

      You misquote, and you misuse Paul for your own justification.

      Galatians 5:4

      You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.

      Abraham did not obey God to justify him self. He obeyed God because he had no other options. He feared God enough to even pull a knife to kill his only son. He did not do so to justify him self, and gain salavtion.

      Paul do not speak to lawless gentiles, who have no clue about the law of Moses, nor the Prophetic word neither the history of the people of Israel. He speaks to Jews who try to obey the law to gain salvation. That has never been possible. Not for Abraham, nor for Moses, and neither for us. The Jewish believers have always been called to obey the law, but were saved by mercy and grace, alone. Those who set the law aside, place them selves under condemnation and judgment.

      You better repent, or you will perish.

      1. Show me ONE place where I have “misquoted” or “misused” Paul for my own justification??!!

        I did make one error–I quoted from Galatians 3:6-10 and I mistakenly attributed it to “Genesis” (I had intended to quote from Genesis and read it as Galatians–I am tired it seems).

        The Galatians WERE NOT JEWS. They were Celts who had been living in Gaul before migrating to Asia Minor. The WERE GENTILES who were being led astray by Judaizers among them who were insisting that they must obey the Law of Moses in order to obtain salvation through Jesus.

        You are very wrong about me and you appear to be quite young in the faith. I will leave you to find your way. I pray His blessings upon you as you search His Word by the power of the Holy Spirit.

      2. Dear Job3627

        Shalom, and love in Jesus.

        Galatians 3:1-2.

        You foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified. I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard?

        (end of scriptures).

        There is an ongoing dispute linked to who the people of Galatia were, and where Galatia was located. I can voice my opinion, and I do. I think they were Celts, from the lost tribes of Jacob, who had been exiled in Assyria.

        They were truly lost, and than found.

        That is why they do have the knowledge of the Law of Moses. They were not pagan gentiles, but surley not from the tribes of Judah or Benjamin, who had returned to Jerusalem after their exile in Babylon. The lost tribes were not present in Judea and Samaria, when the Messiah walked in these two districts.

        Since they are among the lost sheep of Israel, they are responding to Paul’s message about who the Messiah is. Just like Jesus the Messiah had prophecised. The faith of the Galatians has come from what they heared, and not by their observance of the Law.

        There had appeared false teachers among them, who preached salvation by observing the law.

        You can continue to brand me as a “young believer”, but it will be of no benefit for you. I have told you that you are misquoting Paul. I will have to warn the readers of this blog not to listen to your gospel of cheep grace.

        Those who love Jesus the Messiah do obey His commands. They fear God enough to read the Bible, and obey the Word of God. The Messiah is the lawgiver, and you need to come under His Lordship to be saved. When you write that Christians are not oblighed to follow the 10 commandments, you are lost. And you misguide others.

  37. By the way, “lawlessness” is license and takes advantage of God’s grace. That was NEVER anything I advocated.

  38. Amen Ivar,

    Very well said Sir. God, in the longest chapter (Psalm 119), said that His Holy Ten are ‘perfect’, ‘everlasting’, ‘not burdensome’, ‘fulfilling’, and much more!
    This is the type of info that i love to see God seeking Christians discussing, the truth of the Commandments vs the lazy- ‘do-nothing’- grace abusing ways of those fallen away.

    When God says ‘forever’, no Christian would ever even doubt that. Christians do keep His Holy Day!

    1. Dear Visitor to Earth

      Shalom, and love in Jesus.

      You wrote:

      Christians do keep His Holy Day!

      My reply:

      A true Christian will be holy every day. He will always give his best shot, and deliver high end quality work. To be able to do this, he will have to rest. The Biblical way.

      The Sabbath starts at sun down on Fridays. And it ends on sun down Saturday. This is the Biblical timings set by God. Jesus the Messiah said “men are not made for the Sabbath”. The Sabbath is made for men. To rest, and to give it to God of Israel. He reigns. He rebirthed Israel in 1948. That is something the 7th Day Adventists like you have to acknowlege. That God of Israel loves His chosen people, the Jews. And every Christian is called to stand up for the Jewish state.

      1. yes, i always have acknowledged that the Sabbath is His perfect Day. what i will also say though, is that He loves all His chosen people, God is not racist. ‘there is no difference between Jew and Gentile’. while He did bring the gospel through the Jews, they gave up being the chosen people when the put Christ on the cross. Matt 21:43 ‘…will be taken from you’.
        while Jews are who has preserved His Holy Day, they have declined His offer. though if one does seek Him, they still can.
        ‘God of Israel loves His people, the Jews’-? this is not really needed. He loves all His children the same.
        we are either Christian (saved) or we are not.
        and while we are holy every day, the Sabbath is about much more than just that. it is a day of rest, for all our house and others. it is a day to commune with the Lord and attend service and dwell on Him and enjoy family and nature!

      2. Dear Visitor to Earth

        Shalom, and love in Jesus.

        You wrote:

        while He did bring the gospel through the Jews, they gave up being the chosen people when the put Christ on the cross.

        My reply:

        This is a Roman Catholic lie. This is the false Replacement theology. And it is an antisemitic message, that will not be permitted on this blog. You accuse God of being a liar. That God is not in covenant with the Jewish people, and that His eternal love for the Jews was not eternal at all.

  39. Hi Ivar,

    You said: “Those who love Jesus the Messiah do obey His commands. They fear God enough to read the Bible, and obey the Word of God. The Messiah is the lawgiver, and you need to come under His Lordship to be saved.”

    My reply: I have been obedient to all of Jesus’ teachings all of my life. Perfectly? No. But neither have you been perfectly obedient. That is why we rely on His grace. But my heart is set on pleasing Him–always. It is not enough to simply avoid breaking the law. Followers of Jesus are called to love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control as the “fruits of the [Holy] Spirit”. These are virtues that are NOT supplied by keeping the law but only by the Spirit of Grace.

    You said: “When you write that Christians are not obliged to follow the 10 commandments, you are lost. And you misguide others.”

    You misunderstood what I said–perhaps there is a language difficulty there since English is not your first language. I said that our righteousness must EXCEED that which was demanded by the law. The law cannot bring us holiness. That is what the New Testament teaches and in fact, it was there in the Old Testament in natal form. “…’Abraham BELIEVED God, so God declared him righteous because of his faith. The real children of Abraham, then, are all those who put their faith in God. ” (Galatians 3:6-7 NLT–Emphasis mine.) This is the Apostle Paul’s restatement of Genesis 15:6 (which actually reads “Abram” rather than Abraham) and a further conclusion that the real children of Abraham, are those who put their faith in God. The implication, considering the theme of the Book of Galatians, is that we can never expect that we can “earn” our way to God by any observance of the law.

    By the way, every scholar that I checked, believes that the Galatians were Celtic Gentiles–NOT exiled Israelites. Galatians 4:8 (NLT), “Before, you Gentiles knew God, you were slaves to so-called gods that do not even exist.” INDICATES THAT THE MAIN BULK OF THEM WERE CONVERTS FROM PAGANISM. What you cited is a teaching of “British Israelism” and British Israelism is anti-semitic at its heart.

      1. I rest on the Sabbath but I consider every day a day of Sabbath rest. Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath and every day, I rest in Him. Anything else is legalism. Period.

      2. Dear Job3627 and Visitor to Earth

        Shalom, and love in Jesus.

        Jesus said something of the Sabbath.

        1. He is the Lord of the Sabbath. In the sense, He estabished it!…He is the lawgiver.
        2. A man is permitted to do good on the Sabbath. Legalistic rest, is not rest at all.
        3. We need to rest. But man was not made for the day of rest, but the day of rest was made for man.
        4. We can rest on any given day. But we can not set the law of the Sabbath a side, and claim that God has changed the day.
        5. Jesus the Messiah is our eternal Sabbath rest.

    1. Dear job3627

      Galatians 4:8

      New International Version (NIV)

      Paul’s Concern for the Galatians

      8 Formerly, when you did not know God, you were slaves to those who by nature are not gods.

      New King James:

      8 But then, indeed, when you did not know God, you served those which by nature are not gods.

      You wrote:

      What you cited is a teaching of “British Israelism” and British Israelism is anti-semitic at its heart.

      My reply:

      This is a vile and balooney accusation. This has nothing to do with British Isralism. It has to do with what Jesus said: “I have only come for the lost sheep of Israel”. The people living in Galatia seems to have knowledge of the Law of Moses. Now, almost 800 years after their exile from Israel, they had continued to serve idols. They were truly both physically and spiritually slaves.

      Their origin of belonging to the 10 tribes, seems to be why they respond to the false teachers who want them to gain salvation by the works of the Law. Gentiles who did not know the law, where not subjects of missions of Orthodox Jews. But only Jews and proselytes to Judaism. As I have stated before: The bible is a book written by Jews for Jews. Many claimed to be followers of Jesus do not understand much of what they read.

      1. Hi Ivar,

        My reply: What was your point in citing Galatians 4:8 in the NIV and the KJV? They say the same things as what I cited. Paul is there stating that the GENTILE Galatians had been following other “gods”. It is HIGHLY doubtful that they were familiar with the Law of God before coming to Christ. Again, what is your point?

        You said: “This is a vile and balooney accusation. This has nothing to do with British Isralism.”

        My reply: I accept that you were not intending to cite doctrines of “British Israelism” and if you were offended by my remark, I truly am sorry. But I have known a number of people who believed in British Israelism and they would say the same thing about the Galatians.

        You said: “It has to do with what Jesus said: “I have only come for the lost sheep of Israel”.

        My reply: Yes, but you take that and run into error with it. Jesus DID come to call the Jewish people back to devotion to the Father. But when the nation of Israel failed to recognize Him and submit to Him, the promised Kingdom was DELAYED. Surely that is obvious to you by any observance of history. But God will, in the End, STILL keep the Covenant that He swore to the sons of Jacob and they WILL gain the Kingdom.

        You said: “The people living in Galatia seems to have knowledge of the Law of Moses. Now, almost 800 years after their exile from Israel, they had continued to serve idols. They were truly both physically and spiritually slaves.”

        My reply: You can’t know that they “have knowledge of the Law of Moses”. That is pure speculation. Paul indicated that they HAD been listening to the “Judaizers”. If you are suggesting that they had some historical understanding of the Law of Moses, I think that is a bit of a stretch that is NOT supported by the Biblical text.

        You said: “Their origin of belonging to the 10 tribes, seems to be why they respond to the false teachers who want them to gain salvation by the works of the Law.”

        My reply: There is no way of knowing that they were descendants from the “10 Tribes” other than some supernatural revelation of that. Are you claiming to have had that revelation?

        You said: “Gentiles who did not know the law, where not subjects of missions of Orthodox Jews.”

        My reply: Not true. Jesus said, in Matthew 23:15, “Woe unto you scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twice the son of hell than yourselves.”

        Here is the classic Barnes commentary on that verse:

        “Proselyte – One that comes over from a foreign nation, religion, or sect to us – a convert. Among the Jews there were two kinds of proselytes:

        1. “Proselytes of righteousness,” or those who wholly and fully embraced the Jewish religion, who were baptized, who were circumcised, and who conformed to all the rites of the Mosaic institutions.

        2. “Proselytes of the gate,” or those who approved of the Jewish religion, renounced the pagan superstitions, and conformed to some of the rites of the Jews, but were not circumcised or baptized.

        ‘Twofold more the child of hell’ – That is, twice as bad. To be a child of hell was a Hebrew phrase, signifying to be deserving of hell, to be awfully wicked… The Jewish writers themselves say that the proselytes were ‘scabs of Israel,’ and ‘hindered the coming of the Messiah’ by their great wickedness. The Pharisees gained them either to swell their own numbers, or to make gain by extorting their money under various pretenses; and when they had accomplished that, they took no pains to instruct them or to restrain them [in their wickedness]. They had renounced their [pagan] superstition which had before somewhat restrained them, but the Pharisees had given them no religion in its place to restrain them, and they were consequently left to the full indulgence of their vices.”

        In addition, we have actual historical accounts of people such as the Khazars who were proselitized. From Wikipedia: “Beginning in the 8th century, Khazar royalty and notable segments of the aristocracy converted to Judaism; the populace appears to have been multi-confessional—a mosaic of pagan, Tengrist, Jewish, Christian and Muslim worshipers—and poly-ethnic.”

        “Poly-ethnic” does not sound like they were from the “Ten Lost Tribes”.

        You said: “As I have stated before: The bible is a book written by Jews for Jews.”

        My reply: The Bible is a book written for all men and that can be demonstrated from the Old Testament as well as the New Testament–and I have done some of that already. Am willing to do more. You are wrong to state this categorically.

        “You said: “Many claimed to be followers of Jesus do not understand much of what they read.”

        My reply: Sorry to state this so bluntly but I have to ask, Do you?

      2. Dear job3627

        Shalom, and love in Jesus.

        You wrote:

        Paul is there stating that the GENTILE Galatians had been following other “gods”. It is HIGHLY doubtful that they were familiar with the Law of God before coming to Christ. Again, what is your point?

        My comment:

        The word “gentile’ is not there in the verse. That is a presumption. For the beliving Jews, the lost Jews were like the “gentiles”, since they followed other gods. That is the lone reason for their exile to Babylon and Assyria. The job to gathered them for the kingdom, is the main task for the Apostles.

        Lost Jews can only be set free from slavery and being regatherd by the Messiah. Since the Orthodox Jews targetted the people in Galatia, they must have had the minimum referenses to the law of Moses, and some knowledge about the pre-exile history of the tribes of Jacob. It not, the “Judaizers” would have left them alone.

        Jesus said: “I have ONLY come for the lost sheep of Israel”. You do not seem to understand. The Jewish apostles did.

    1. Visitor to Earth =)

      Shalom, and love in Jesus.

      Many promises to the Jews are eternal, and are linked to their election long time before there was a single Christian walking on the Earth. If you try to usurp these promises, and deny that they belong to the Jewish people, you are a liar. Like the lies that Jesus has not restored Israel, and not being the eternal King of the Jews. To be grafted into the Jewish faith, is to accept that there is no God but God of the Hebrews. Father, Son and Holy Spirit are One God. Three in One.

      1. Interestingly, the parable about the workers who came later, as opposed to those who were there from the beginning, are all about how all believers receive the same eternal reward – Heaven!

        again, no silliness with the ‘antisemitism’, that is just crazy! i am simply not gonna allow anyone to limit God and call Him racist.

        am i less important because i was not born a Jew? not at all! God has evolved and Scripure supports this understanding.

  40. i used ‘evolved’, very bad choice of words. i meant, He allowed for non Jews to experience the same as Jews who accept Christ. this is more accurate of me.

  41. Job,
    He did design the truth, to be followed by Christians, in the Commandments. so are the Commandments ‘legalism’ or ‘loyalism’?

    1. I have said this to you before–I see no warrant for selecting out what you call “the Holy Ten” and insisting on them. As Christians, our behaviour is supposed to EXCEED in righteousness, over the demands of the Ten Commandments. The Ten Commandments are a bare minimum for Christians. Not only do we not murder, we are not even to “revile” (that is, treat with scorn) those who have set themselves up as our enemies. We are to love and pray for them.

      You are focused on the law to the exclusion of grace. I don’t know what else I can say to you. Blessings to you as you seek the Truth from God’s word.

  42. Ivar, on the Sabbath, i totally do agree. too many want to ‘choose’ the day, but to keep His Day Holy is correct! any who tries to minimize this Commandment have been sadly deceived.

  43. Hi Ivar,

    You said: “4. We can rest on any given day. But we can not set the law of the Sabbath aside, and claim that God has changed the day.”

    Who is doing that? I long ago, in this thread, acknowledged that ONLY SATURDAY IS THE SABBATH! And that will be a very important observance in the coming Kingdom, when animal sacrifice is reinstated (see Ezekiel chapters 40 through 48).

    But recognizing that only Saturday is the Sabbath does not mean that WE cannot meet with other Christians and teach them from God’s word on Sunday. Otherwise, you would have to judge the Apostle Paul wrong for doing so. (see Acts 20:7)

    1. ‘animal sacrifice is reinstated’? huh? no Sir, Christ replaced the sacrifice and became the Only Sacrifice!

      we can rest any day, that will never change, you are correct. but Christ worshipped and taught on the Sabbath (Luke 4:16), so should Christians do the same?

      and sunday worship…true, any day Christians can, but to mistake a picnic that Paul had with the disciples as a Sabbath alternative is just not consistant with Scripture. yes, Paul did get together and eat that day. my guess is that they all ate on every day of the week.

      for the admission on sunday, please look up: catholic encyclopedia, volume 4, page 153 ‘Sabbath to sunday’.

      enjoy your day Sir.

      1. Visitor to Earth,

        You said: ‘animal sacrifice is reinstated’? huh? no Sir, Christ replaced the sacrifice and became the Only Sacrifice!”

        My reply: Are you actually denying what the prophet Ezekiel depicted in Chapters 40-48 of the Book of Ezekiel!!?? There has NEVER been such a Temple as Ezekiel’s Temple–YET. THEREFORE, we must assume that it is to become a reality in the FUTURE and it is clear from the Book of Ezekiel that worship there will include animal sacrifice.

        You apparently do not understand the purpose of animal sacrifice. Did it really take away sin? No, we understand that it did not from Hebrews 10:4, “For it is not possible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins.” It was given to Israel to look to the future when God Himself would provide a Lamb to be the ultimate sacrifice for sin. And, in the Millennial Temple, it will be reinstated as a memorial of His great act of self-sacrifice–a tangible evidence of the horrible consequences of sin. Otherwise, Ezekiel is a false prophet and I don’t think you want to go there, Tony.

        You said: “we can rest any day, that will never change, you are correct. but Christ worshipped and taught on the Sabbath (Luke 4:16), so should Christians do the same?”

        My reply: I have already shown you that the Apostle Paul taught on Sunday “the first day of the week” (in Acts 20:7). What does it mean to “worship”? It basically means to assign worth to someone or something. Do you not think that the early Christians were assigning worth to Jesus when the Apostle Paul taught them on a Sunday? Our modern habit of calling only singing “worship” is a silly distinction.

        You said: “for the admission on sunday, please look up: catholic encyclopedia, volume 4, page 153 ‘Sabbath to sunday’”

        My reply: I have already agreed at least TWICE in this thread that, THE SABBATH IS SATURDAY.! The Roman “church” could no more change the Sabbath to Sunday than they could change pigeons to eagles.

        The Fourth Commandment: “Remember to observe the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. You have six days each week for your ordinary work, but the seventh day is a Sabbath day of rest dedicated to the Lord your God. On that day no one in your household may do any work. This includes you, your sons and daughters, your male and female servants, your livestock, and any foreigners living among you. For in six days the Lord made the heavens, the earth, the sea, and everything in them; but on the seventh day He rested. That is why the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and set it apart as holy.”

        Most people, Christian, Jewish or otherwise do not work on Saturday in the Western nations. Christians are free to worship God on Saturday as well as Sunday (or any day, for that matter).

        You need to understand the reason why the Lord ordered the Israelites to observe a Sabbath rest. They were going into a pagan land that was “vomiting out” the pagans that the children of Israel were to actively pitch out of the Land. The Ten Commandments served as a warning to the Israelites to avoid the sins of the pagans. One of the sins of the pagans was to work their servants/slaves to death–barely feeding them, and giving them no opportunity for rest. There are unearthed, historical documents that illustrate just how cruel the pagans were to their servants. But the Bible itself speaks to that, in recounting the cruel oppression of the Hebrew slaves by their Egyptian masters. They Israelites had just escaped from such conditions. For the Israelites to then turn around and work their servants/slaves to death would have been the height of disgusting hypocrisy. And we know that God detests hypocrisy.

  44. Uh Job, i really have no interest in reading that book.
    keep it simple please. Christ is our ONLY Sacrifice…period. if you dont get this, please start again. the Sabbath, well the Commandment speaks for itself.

    your excessive words lead me to believe that you are simply searching in the dark. kinda like the excessive books that catholics are required to read.

    Scripture Sir, Scripture only please.

    and remember: ‘those who says ‘lord lord’ and does not do my Commandments, is a liar, and truth is not in them’.

    1. Visitor to Earth,

      You said: “Uh Job, i really have no interest in reading that book.
      keep it simple please. Christ is our ONLY Sacrifice…period. if you dont get this, please start again. the Sabbath, well the Commandment speaks for itself.”

      My reply: To what Book are you referring? The Book of Ezekiel or the Book of Hebrews? Both inspired texts from the Holy Bible. How can you presume to dismiss any Book of the Bible??!!

      You said:”your excessive words lead me to believe that you are simply searching in the dark. kinda like the excessive books that catholics are required to read.”

      My reply: That is an insult that apparently comes from ignorance.

      You said: “Scripture Sir, Scripture only please.” I have cited both Scripture and historical information. You are quite apparently unable to comprehend either.

      You said: “and remember: ‘those who says ‘lord lord’ and does not do my Commandments, is a liar, and truth is not in them’.”

      My reply: And how would you presume to judge how well I obey the Lord Jesus when you have not even seen an abusive word from me? On the other hand, I have certainly seen it from you and rebuked you for it.

      1. the book i was referring was the excessive writing you did. so again, as before, are the Commandments ‘legalism’ or ‘loyalism’? you seem to want to dance around that question.

        your writing that the Lord will reinstate animal sacrifice is just not true. as i said Jesus is the Perfect and Only necessary sacrifice.

        and did i judge with a simple verse? if it fits, wear it. but i am no judge, not yet.

    2. Animal sacrifice,was man’s want to appease the Gods and ask for favour of them,it is not a requirement of Jesus/God as Jesus was the sacrificial lamb,given to end the way of the old /pagan religion.Animal sacrifice is a requirement of Jewish Torah relating to Korban Pesakh Exodus 12;1-28 etc

      1. Amen Ma’am! reading the gentleman below, you would not get this basic understanding though.
        You however, are correct!
        God bless you and your family!

  45. Hi Ivar,

    You said: “The word “gentiles’ are not there in the verse. That is a presumption.”

    My reply: Yes but it is a well-founded presumption based on scholarship.

    You said: “For the beliving Jews, the lost Jews were like the “gentiles”, since they followed other gods. That is the lone reason for their exile to Babylon and Assyria. The job to gathered them for the kingdom, is the main task for the Apostles.”

    My reply: This is simply untrue. The Apostle Paul considered himself to be the “Apostle to the Gentiles” He said, at one point, that he would no longer go to the Jews as they were so resistant to the Gospel–that he would go instead to the Gentiles.(see Acts 18:6) Peter considered himself to be the Apostle to the Jews. (Galatians 2:8)

    You said: “Since the Orthodox Jews targeted them, they must have had the minimum references to the law of Moses, and some knowledge about the pre-exile history of the tribes of Jacob. It not, the “Judaizers” would have left them alone”

    My reply: This is complete conjecture and cannot be supported either from the Biblical text or the historical record.

    You said: “Jesus said: “I have ONLY come for the lost sheep of Israel”. You do not seem to understand. The Jewish apostles did.”

    My reply: Not sure what you are trying to accomplish with this–other than to try to make others uncertain of their salvation. That runs contrary to everything that the Apostle John taught in 1 John. He said that his purpose in writing was to cause his readers to KNOW that eternal life was theirs. (1 John 5:13) I suggest that you might want to get a copy of John MacArthur’s teaching on 1 John since you are apparently a fan of Lordship Salvation (which, by the way, is, admittedly the likely position of all Scripture taken together). The “controversy” between “Lordship Salvation” and “Free Grace” is largely illusory–that is, until dogmatic individuals try to drag the discussion to extremes on either side.

  46. Visitor to Earth,

    You said: “simply put Sir, John 14:15.
    either you do or you do not.
    lets keep it simple.”

    My reply: In general, yes. Do I do it perfectly? No. Neither do you. That is why we need grace. 1 John 1:8–“If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us.”

    So which will it be, Tony? You are either a sinner in need of grace, or you are a liar who claims perfect compliance with ALL the law of God, including ALL of Jesus’ commands to His disciples.

  47. we are not perfect, this is true. but do you keep the Sabbath? yes, we can. we do need grace, but to sin knowingly (willingly), that is the true question. while a Christian gets better with time, those who carelessly refuse to grow continually say ‘grace, grace!’.
    and while we are all sinners, in need of grace, we do not need to stay as such.
    He loves us enough to save us where we are, but too much to leave us where we are.

    so again, are the Commandments ‘legalism’ or ‘loyalism’?

    1. The Commandments ARE part of the Law of God–thus you could say they are “legal.” Your question misses the point. One presumes that when you sin, you do so willingly. That is part of the definition of sin–that we willingly violate God’s standard of righteousness, which is the WHOLE of the law, including all the commands of Jesus. I ask you, are you always perfectly “loyal”? Really? How can you know when you have been loyal enough? Which act of disloyalty on your part “unsaves” you? Do you see where emphasis on the law takes you?

      1. so even though God describes the Commandments as ‘perfect’ and ‘holy’ and ‘just’ and ‘not burdensome’, i find it interesting, yet sad that you call them legal. they are simply moral. while not yet perfect, we are to strive for perfection.
        it is too bad you view His simple request like this. there are Ten, He did not ask a lot. or are you confusing Moses law with Gods?

  48. Visitor to Earth,

    You said: “so even though God describes the Commandments as ‘perfect’ and ‘holy’ and ‘just’ and ‘not burdensome’, i find it interesting, yet sad that you call them legal.”

    My reply: The Commandments are part of the Law of God–no reading of the Old Testament would render any other understanding. The definition of “legal” from Merriam-Webster: ” of or relating to the law” My use of the term “legal” was merely descriptive. There WAS NO distinction in the Old Testament between what was “the Law of God” and what was “the Law of Moses”. I have already demonstrated that for you by citing a number of Scripture references above in the thread. This is really just traveling the same territory over and over. Your dogmatic assertions go nowhere.

    You said: “…it is too bad you view His simple request like this. there are Ten, He did not ask a lot. or are you confusing Moses law with Gods?”

    My reply: I have already said that the Ten Commandments are a bare minimum for Christians. I do not find them burdensome at all–but thinking that somehow, my obedience to them does anything for my salvation–one way or the other is to make them into an idol. We are saved by grace through faith in the Lamb of God who takes away the penalty for my infractions of God’s Law. I will not write this again in this thread. As I said several times throughout this thread–it can be easily demonstrated by numerous Scripture passages that the terms “Law of God” and “Law of Moses” are interchangeable in the Old Testament. I fail to see why you cannot understand this.

  49. Uh Job, it is not sda. it is actually from the Bible. but to be fair: God wrote one on stone (which can not be nailed to the cross), moses wrote one that was nailed to the cross. One lasts forever (Psalms 119), one ended at cross (colossians). One was perfect, one not. One was forever, one added. on and on it goes!

    but you go ahead, run from ‘sda’ stuff, even though the Bible says to ‘try ALL things, hold to what is good’-1 Thess 5:22.

    1. Why is it that when I looked up “preparing for eternity SDA” it took me to an SDA website where, surprise, surprise, I scrolled down the page to see a piece entitled, “Preparing For Eternity”? I have no doubt that there are plenty of Bible citations there but they would only be cited in support of the cult’s theological positions.

      You are misinterpreting and misapplying 1 Thess. 5:22. When the Apostle Paul says to “try all things” he merely meant to “Prove all things” by means of studying the Scripture. The thought in the Koine Greek is tied to the previous verse of not despising prophecy. We are to be like the Bereans who were commended by Paul for studying the Scriptures diligently to ascertain that what Paul was saying was correct in terms of Old Testament prophecy.

      As for your nonsense that the Ten Commandments could not be nailed to the Cross as the Law of Moses was, is an utter fabrication. It makes the Cross of Christ to no effect for those who have broken one of the Ten Commandments. Since, pagans were guilty of worshiping other gods, (the First Commandment) it would make salvation impossible for them–even though they had fully repented of it and embraced Jesus as their Lord and Messiah. Since Moses was raised as a Prince of Egypt (and may have been taught to worship other gods before his experience with the Great I Am) it would perhaps have put his own salvation in jeopardy as well. Fortunately, your assertion can be judged–BY SCRIPTURE–to be utter nonsense.

      1. i did see the same chart on other denominational sites, i really did not apply nor see it was sda. regardless, if its Scripture, does it matter?
        ‘prove all things’? again, OK! you are Scripturally lacking in your attempt to minimize and/or lagalize the Holy Ten.
        as for my ‘nailing the Ten to the cross’, so let me get this straight, God says they last ‘Forever’ you say no, ‘nailed to the cross’. hmmm, next time you are able to nail a stone to a cross (or any wood!) let me know. quiet silly really! first you want to nail stone and also call God Almighty a ‘LIAR’?
        you have major issues Sir.

  50. Visitor to Earth,

    You said: “you have understanding Scripture issues”

    My reply: All cults have “understanding Scripture issues” and the SDAs would be no exception. They bend and twist Scripture to support their pre-determined theological positions (Ellen G. White’s virulent hatred of Roman Catholics and Jews influenced her theology–that is obvious). That is very faulty Bible interpretation. We are to approach Scripture with no preconceived notions (a tall order) and let the Scriptures speak to us through the interpretive power of the Holy Spirit who will bring other passages to our mind to confirm or deny our thoughts.

  51. Visitor to Earth,

    You said: “your writing that the Lord will reinstate animal sacrifice is just not true. as i said Jesus is the Perfect and Only necessary sacrifice.”

    My reply: Then how is it that the Book of Ezekiel speaks of a future Temple where animal sacrifice is done? And how is it that the Antichrist, spoken of by the prophet, Daniel (and Jesus Himself) will “…confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.” (Daniel 9:27) The Antichrist will stop animal sacrifice at the Tribulation Temple and declare himself to be God there (2 Thess. 2:4).

    1. ‘anti Christ will stop the animal sacrifice at the Tribulation’?

      i was unaware that there was animal sacrifice going on now. i mean since Christ is and will always be our Only necessary Sacrifice, why Sir, why would anyone again sacrifice an animal?

      your understanding of Daniel 9 is surely lacking, especially when you are still trying to nail the Ten on the cross. no wonder you are short in prophetic discernment.

      start again with Psalm 119. if you can iron out the inconsistency with your writings and that direct Scripture, then, maybe then, you can have a little comprehension of what is being relayed through Scripture.

      i wish you luck in that Sir 😉

      big clue: when the God of Creation says something lasts ‘Forever’, forever is shall be. not sure i can get any more basic than this.

      1. Visitor to Earth,

        NOTE: Please read this all the way through as I believe it will clear up some confusion that you are apparently having in understanding what I have written.

        You said: “i was unaware that there was animal sacrifice going on now.”

        My reply: There is not yet animal sacrifice going on officially in Israel, but once the Third Temple is built, it will be reinstated. They are already in the process of training priests, for that duty. It is that Temple that the Antichrist will desecrate. He will first stop animal sacrifice there before announcing that he is (a) god. (See Daniel 9:27 and 2 Thess. 2:4)

        There is nothing wrong with my Bible interpretation. What I have stated is generally accepted doctrine throughout the evangelical churches. Your Bible interpretation is heavily swayed by the distorted theological prejudices that you have acquired from your cult. Try reading whole books of the Bible at a time instead of just passages–with no preconceived theological notions. You could especially spruce up your knowledge of the Old Testament (which your cult, with its foundational antisemitism, may disparage because of its “Jewishness”). 🙂

        Yes, Jesus the Messiah of Israel “is, was and will always be our only necessary sacrifice” (from the point of view of Hebrews 10:4). But that does not mean that a continuing memorial of animal sacrifice at the Millennial Temple will not be put into place. Just as animal sacrifice was a foreshadowing of the sacrifice of the Lamb of God, so will it be as a memorial during the Millennial age–put there, to remind the people of the consequences of sin and what it cost God to save us from it. There will still be some sin among the mortals (albeit with much longer lives) inhabiting the Millennial Kingdom, during that time (see Isaiah 65:20) even though Satan will be bound, during that period. There will be no Temple in the Eternal State following the Millennium (after the Great White Throne Judgment). Thus, no animal sacrifice in the Eternal State.

        I am not “still trying to nail the Ten to the Cross” whatever that means to you and your cult. ALL of the Law of God (including the commands of Christ) will be the basis for the Great White Throne Judgment for unbelievers.

        Actually, the term “forever” in the Old Testament doesn’t mean what you think it means. It does not mean “eternally” as that is a Greek concept and refers to an unending period of time. Forever, as the Hebrew indicates, means for some finite period of time. Such a concept as “infinity” is a difficult concept for the finite minds of humans and it is not used in the Old Testament, which is very concrete and specific. In the New Testament, Jesus used the term “til the end of the age” (in the Greek aeon) in order to set a time boundary that His hearers could grasp. Different words are used for the eternality of God, the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. God is described as “always is/was” and that is a different concept.

        The Hebrew word “olam” is used for time indicating the distant past or the distant future. It is usually translated as “forever” but, in the English language, it is misunderstood to mean a continual span of time that never ends–an infinity of time, and thus an abolition of time . In the Hebraic understanding it was simply meant to refer to a time that is beyond the horizon, a distant time. A common phrase in the Hebrew is “l’olam va’ed” and is usually translated as “forever and ever” but in the Hebrew mind, it meant “to the very distant horizon” meaning “a very distant time and even further” and is used to express the idea of a very ancient or very future time. God has revealed Himself to man in epochs–that is, in periods of time. If it took an infinity of time to reveal Himself, how would the mortals existing in these epochs ever perceive Him? There will be a truly unending time in the future Eternal State (there will indeed, be no sun or moon for even marking time periods–see Rev. 21:23).

  52. no. if you can not quickly and with simplicity explain, save your fingers.
    again, Christ said ‘IF you love me…’. the end.

    1. so true! no one wants to read of a wordy theological ”explanation’ from someone who cant even understand that the Commandments are forever.

      why do i even spend time with that simpleton? =)

      1. Visitor to Earth,

        You apparently said, in reference to me: “why do i even spend time with that simpleton?

        My reply: That is completely sinful behaviour of one believer toward another, Tony. I have warned you before that I will not respond to such insults–not because they do anything to me but because, in doing so, you are damaging your witness–if indeed, you truly are a believer.

      2. yes job, and to falsely call another a member of a ‘cult’ and to bear false witness against another, as you so blatantly have (along with jonah) is very Christian of you!
        p.s.-anyone who goes against the Scripture is, indeed, a simpleton.

  53. Hello Job,

    I admire you taking the time to expose the false teachings of Tony, a delusional Seventh Day Adventist cult member.

    Most of those reading here know that you are an excellent writer and have been granted wisdom by the Holy Spirit to speak God’s truth.

    However, since Tony is deeply embedded in the Satanic lies of Ellen G. White, I’m afraid that you are casting your pearls before swine.

    Lets look at more of what his SDA cult teaches:

    1. Ellen G. White taught that in the end, it is Satan who will bear the burden for sins and pay the final penalty. (Page 481 of ‘Great Controversy’ (1927 ed.)

    Tony and his cult believe this.

    This alone TOTALLY denies that Jesus Christ is Lord and Savior.

    This alone is complete and total BLASPHEMY!

    This alone says it all and exposes his cult.

    It is not necessary to even go further into what his cult teaches as this is “the pinnacle of the clock tower” of the lies his cult puts forth.

    This alone exposes his vile cult for what it is and exposes how brainwashed he is.

    The Bible says that Jesus Christ, “Was delivered over to death for our sins and was raised to life for our justification.” (Rom 4:25)

    Tony and his CULT have absolutely NO CREDIBILITY. He is not a Christian. He believes and pushes satanically inspired lies.

    2. Tony’s SDA cult attempts to hide that they consider themselves to be the only, true, remnant Church.

    Their lying false teacher Ellen G. White, told them that “Satan has taken full possession of all the other Churches” (Spiritual Gifts V.l,p.189-90)

    3. Tony’s SDA cult won’t tell you he believes the prayers of true Christians are an “abomination” to God. (Spiritual Gifts, V1 p.190). “We believe the revelation and inspiration of both the Bible and Ellen White’s writings to be of equal quality. The superintendence of the Holy Spirit was just as careful and thorough in one case as in the other”.

    4. Tony is fearful of not following his false “prophetess” because of her threats. He does not read the Bible nor is he filled with the Holy Spirit. It is impossible to be filled with the Holy Spirit and be deceived by demons. This is why he suffers from obsessive compulsive disorder and posts the same thing over and over and over and over and over and over like a madman.

    His lying false prophetess Ellen G White said, “the condition of gaining eternal life is obedience to the commandments of God”. Of course, it is the fourth commandment that is stressed, since Ellen saw this one glowing in one of her false visions.

    5. Tony’s salvation now becomes dependent on which day of the week he observes. He was swallowed the lie that worship on Sunday is the “mark of the beast” and will result in lose eternal life. (The Spirit of Prophecy V. 4, p. 505).

    We know that Sunday worship is NOT the mark of the beast.

    The Bible tells us how to deal with these cult members.

    “If the house is worthy, give it your blessing of peace. But if it is not worthy, take back your blessing of peace. “Whoever does not receive you, nor heed your words, as you go out of that house or that city, shake the dust off your feet.”Truly I say to you, it will be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah in the day of judgment than for that city.”

    Wow, that is a stern warning. We know that Sodom and Gomorrah was obliterated. The Lord here says that “it will be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah than it will be when Tony is judged for misrepresenting the basis of salvation in Christ alone – not in WORKS, lest any man boast.

    1. while you (last paragraph, since the rest was rambling on) stated that i will be judged for misrepresenting the basis of salvation in Christ alone, you may just want to read what Mr Ivar wrote in his latest article. its all about ‘cheap grace’.
      yes cheap. that means that while simpletons hold out their hands and expect salvation, the Lord will simply remind them that ‘by their works you will know them’ and many other verses.
      but to keep it simple, please read 1 John 2. then you two liars can go and compare inconsistancies that you both have been buying into.

    2. point 1. i have not read the ‘Great Controversy’. though i have heard that there are numerous false writings of this which, as you do, point out something you know nothing of.
      point 2. the only true remnant church is the one that follows the Bible. do you keep the Holy Ten Sir? please answer that, we are greatly interested.
      3. while ms white, from the few things i have heard, constantly points to the Bible and Christ, your ignorant statement is sad, yet expected of a fool.
      4. more nonsense of ‘my prophetess’. you again show your ignorance. way off base.
      5. you are now telling me of my salvation? again, you may want to read Mr Ivar’s very correct article about your cheap grace.
      see sir, a Christian does keep them. this kinda exposes you and mr job now doesnt it?

      in pt 4, you mentioned that i do not read the Bible. silly and sad. it is what i meditate on day and night. any of these points alone is enough to expose your ignorance.
      the day will come quickly! Amen!

      1. yes indeed! anyone who goes in direct contrast is a liar. apparently 1 John 2 says the same about you. maybe you should read and pray for discernment.

  54. cult
    /kəlt/
    noun
    noun: cult; plural noun: cults
    a system of religious veneration and devotion directed toward a particular figure or object.
    “the cult of St. Olaf”

    yawn! jonah,jonah, seems that your english is lacking. never veneration of a figure nor of an object, ever!
    nevertheless, since you choose to falsely label others as ‘cult’, not at all an issue. your knowledge of mrs white, as from all i have seen (though not thorough, as she is not a necessity and constantly pointed to the Bible and Christ), is what you base your shallowness on, lets dig deeper, ready?:

    my stance has been that Christian obey the Commandments, but you say my salvation is on which day i observe…how can you be so shallow jonah? ah, i get it, you are a sun worshipper i can only assume…

    tell me jonah, since you seem to support the shallow and inconsistant job, are you too one that screams ‘grace grace’ when the Lord says that He does not know you? apparently, from the Bible you are – 1 John 2. and while you are at it, please refute Psalm 119 also.

    see johan, while all i need is Scripture, you can dip into whatever and whoever will provide your superficial support. it is called Sola Scriptura!

    1. Visitor to Earth:

      You said to Jonah: “…how can you be so shallow jonah? ah, i get it, you are a sun worshipper i can only assume…”

      Shame on you, Tony! To be that deliberately insulting to anyone, let alone another Christian is a behaviour that is far beneath that which is called for in a follower of Christ–if indeed, you are one. You really need to get out of the cult you are in. The time is coming quickly. Jesus demanded that those who are a part of false religions come out from among them or share in the “Whore of Babylon’s” plagues. (See Rev. 18:4)

      1. and falsely accusing someone of being in a cult, not using it in the proper text, obviously not understanding it nor what sda is reallyabout is really christian too, right?
        grow up. i have been here to advocate the keeping of the Commandments and all you can do is cheap putdowns. sad.

        again, as mr ivar has said….leave it alone now!

      2. dear Visitor to Earth.

        Shalom, and love in Jesus.

        You wrote:

        again, as mr ivar has said….leave it alone now!

        My reply:

        So you also leave this alone. There is freedom also for members of SDA on this site. Despite you having doctrines that seperates you from Evangelical Christianity.

  55. I certainly agree with you Robert Jeffress! Jesus Christ says in Matthew 15:6-9 “…Thus have you made the commandment of none effect by your tradition.
    Hypocrites! Well did Isaiah prophesy about you, saying: These people draw near me with their mouth, and honors Me with their lips, but their heart is far from Me.
    And in vain they worship Me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.”
    Paul tells us in Colossians 2: 8-10 ” Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ.
    For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily;
    And you are complete in Him, Who is the head of all principality and power.
    Matthew 23:9 says speaking of religious leaders – ” Do not call anyone on earth your father; for one is your Father, He who is in heaven.
    I Timothy 2:5 ” For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,
    Notice the apostle Peter, who, by the way was the apostle to the Jews. Paul was the apostle to the Gentiles. Galatians 2:8. Notice that his words in I Peter certainly don’t resemble any Pope!
    I Peter 5:1-3 – ” The elders who are among you I exhort, I WHO AM A FELLOW ELDER AND A WITNESS OF THE SUFFERINGS OF CHRIST, and also a partaker of the glory that shall be revealed:
    Shepherd the flock of God which is among you, serving as overseers, not by compulsion but willingly, not for dishonest gain but eagerly;
    NOR AS BEING LORDS OVER THOSE ENTRUSTED TO YOU, but being examples to the flock.”
    Before the reformation Rome held the bible in under chains to the common people.
    Also speaking in Latin. The common people were not allowed the scriptures because Rome knew their eyes would be opened to their heresies! This is what happened after the reformation. Many Christians were slaughtered by Rome for their faith in Jesus Christ alone. Rome is the same today as she always has been!
    I personally believe we are today seeing a movement back to Rome, with the emergent church which will fulfill the great apostasy of the one world ecumenical church under the anti Christ.
    No pope or “so called” priest would ever preach in any church that I am a part of either!
    There are no priests today in the true church!
    Hebrews 7:22 -28 By so much more Jesus has become a surety of a better covenant.
    Also there were many priests, because they were prevented by death from continuing.
    But He, because He continues forever, has an UNCHANGEABLE PRIESTHOOD.
    Therefore He is able to save to the uttermost those who come to God THROUGH HIM, since He always lives to make intercession for them.
    For such a high priest was fitting for us, Who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and has become higher than the heavens;
    Who does not need daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifices, first for his own sins and then for the peoples, for this He did once and for when He offered up Himself,
    For the law appoints as high priests men who have weaknesses, but the word of the oath, which came after the law, appoints The Son Who has been perfected forever.”
    8:1 ” …we have such a High Priest, Who is seated at the right hand of the throne of The Majesty in heaven.”
    V.6 ” But now He hath obtained a more excellent ministry, in as much as He is also Mediator of a better covenant
    , which was established on better promises.”
    Hebrews 4: 14-16 ” Seeing that we have a great High Priest Who has passed through the heavens< Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.
    For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin.
    Let us therefore come boldly to the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy and find grace to help in time of need."
    I would not want to stand in the shoes of any pope or priest who usurps the place of Christ before the eyes of their people!
    Notice that Jesus never exalted Mary – When told that His mother was looking for him, He said in Mark 3:33-35 "…Whoever does the will of God is My brother, sister and mother."
    When someone tried to exalt Mary in Luke's gospel – Luke 11:27-28 Jesus said " More than that, blessed are those who hear the word of God and keep it!"
    Rome is a pagan, idolatrous, false religious system. Sly like a Fox!
    Also comes under a double curse from God! Galatians 1:8-9.
    Thanks for your stand Mr. Jeffress!
    In Christ – Bob Jones.

  56. Visitor to Earth,

    Rather than accuse Jonah and me of being “lawbreakers”, which you couldn’t possibly know–perhaps you should look at your own behavior which is in direct violation of Jesus’ teaching on “calling your brother a fool” which you have done to both of us. I can assure you that I keep ALL of the Ten Commandments and that is “easy-peasy” compared to keeping the commands of Christ, as you have well-illustrated for us. No one has born false witness toward you–you ARE in a cult and one that has foundational Satanic teachings from your false prophet, Ellen G. White. It is easy to judge that she is a false prophet, because much of what she predicted DID NOT come to pass. The Bible gives clear instruction on that.

    1. dear Job3627

      Shalom, and love in Jesus.

      You wrote:

      I can assure you that I keep ALL of the Ten Commandments and that is “easy-peasy” compared to keeping the commands of Christ, as you have well-illustrated for us.

      My reply:

      John 14:21
      He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him.”

      1 John 2:4
      He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

      1. I do my very best to keep all of the commands of Jesus. Do I keep them perfectly? No. That is why I need grace–but my will is always set to doing His will and I do love Him and the Father and the Word of God.

    2. shhhh. it is a dead subject, do you not understand anything mr ivar said? first you go directly what God has commanded, then you falsely accuse someone of things that are beyone your comprehension, and now you ignore what ivar has said on this page.
      when will you learn?

      1. Visitor to Earth,

        You said: “shhhh. it is a dead subject, do you not understand anything mr ivar said? first you go directly what God has commanded, then you falsely accuse someone of things that are beyone your comprehension, and now you ignore what ivar has said on this page.
        when will you learn?”

        I was not addressing you, Tony. Despite your efforts to be his sycophant, he has no more regard for you than he apparently has for me. He will not allow you to shill for your false religion and has said so.

        I have made no false accusations against you. They were merely TRUE statements about the cult in which you are apparently deeply involved.

  57. I would like to add one more note to what I have already stated in this VERY LONG thread. I long ago stated that ignoring the stated moral law is, for a Christian, a foolish thing to do. It is there as a boundary that most Christians never approach because they are informed by the Holy Spirit, who keeps them pursuing Christ into holiness. It serves as a “school-master” for those newly arrived in the faith, as they turn from their life of sin. But you can never meet God’s standard by obsessive adherence to the law. The example of the Pharisees has already, long ago, shown that to be true. They apparently felt that they didn’t require the grace offered to them by Israel’s Messiah. They were wrong.

    But no one keeps Jesus’ commands perfectly. He set an incredibly high standard for us to follow. Forgiving, praying for and serving those who have injured me or my family is very difficult, but I do it, because that is what Jesus did. And He calls us to that standard. In my flesh, I have no good thing and when someone cuts me off in traffic, my natural impulse is to fume and fuss against him or her. But then the Holy Spirit reminds me that I have made mistakes in driving too. Then I forgive and drop the anger–thanking God that an accident did not occur.

    Even though my granddaughter tells me that I am “the ‘goodest’ person” she knows, I know that, like the Apostle Paul, “…nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature. I want to do what is right, but I can’t.” (Romans 7:18) But the Spirit of Christ living in me can. That is why we all need grace. Not only does God forgive us, when we fall short of the standard set by the Son, but He enables that which He summons from His chosen ones. Philippians 2:13: “For God is working in you, giving you the desire and the power to do what pleases him.”

    1. Dear Job3627

      Shalom, and love in Jesus.

      Your comment:

      I long ago stated that ignoring the stated moral law is, for a Christian, a foolish thing to do. It is there as a boundary that most Christians never approach because they are informed by the Holy Spirit, who keeps them pursuing Christ into holiness.

      My reply:

      The lawgiver and the Holy Spirit is the same God. They can not be seperated from each other. If you do not know the lawgiver and the law, the Holy Spirit will find it difficult to remind you about sin. Because sin is transgression against the law. That is why Christians who do not read their Bible, commit a mortal mistake. It should be more common to read the Bible, than to watch TV or read secular newspapers.

      Similarly, if you have not recived the Holy Spirit, you will not be reminded about what part of the law your have transgressed, or is about to transgress. You can not go on searching in the Bible, to find out what to do in any given moment. The Holy Spirit is your guide, adcocate and helper.

      Legalism, is to claim that I am able to follow the whole law. if you do, you basically turn your self into a hypocritical liar. You have become a pretender. That is my main objection to the doctrines of the SDA. They claim to honor the Sabbath, but still let their servants work, goes shopping, drive cars, write messages on their PC, etc.

      But stop calling the SDA for a cult. It serves no purpose. It is the Holy Spirit that must convince them that their Sabatical doctrine is based on legalism, and a bid to gain salvation by observing the law. That has never been possible. Neither in ancient Israel, nor today.

      Still Sabbath Shalom. Or like they say in the USA: Thank God, it’s Friday….

  58. Hi Ivar,

    You wrote: “The lawgiver and the Holy Spirit is the same God.”

    My reply: Of course, “Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever.” By extrapolation, we assume that applies to God the Father and the Holy Spirit as well.

    You wrote: “They can not be separated from each other. If you do not know the lawgiver and the law, the Holy Spirit will find it difficult to remind you about sin.”

    My reply: I think I have a pretty good understanding of the Old Testament law, but the Pharisees had knowledge that far surpassed mine…and yet, they missed the message of Christ by a mile. I rely on the indwelling Holy Spirit who, “…leads into all truth.” (John 14:17)

    You wrote: “Because sin is transgression against the law.”

    My reply: Forgive me, but I expect that it is more than that. Sin is anything that displeases God. The Apostle Paul was careful to point out that eating meat sacrificed to idols was nothing in itself, as other “gods” don’t actually exist, but that if it offended another follower of Christ, it is sin to do so. (see 1 Corinthians 8–particularly vs. 10 through to the end of the chapter.)

    You wrote: “That is why Christians who do not read their Bible, commit a mortal mistake. It should be more common to read the Bible, than to watch TV or read secular newspapers.”

    My reply: Is that directed at me? I feel no need to defend myself but I should point out that I haven’t followed popular entertainment for many, many years and I read my Bible and study every day (sometimes even all day).

    You wrote: “Similarly, if you have not received the Holy Spirit, you will not be reminded about what part of the law you have transgressed, or are about to transgress. ”

    My reply: Again, forgive me for pointing out that the Holy Spirit does far more than remind us of our transgressions. He leads us to all truth and enables us to deny our flesh, and instead, please God with our thoughts, words and deeds.

    You wrote: “You can not go on searching in the Bible, to find out what to do in any given moment. The Holy Spirit is your guide, advocate and helper.”

    My reply: Yes, I can say a hearty amen to that statement.

    You wrote: “But stop calling the SDA for a cult. It serves no purpose. It is the Holy Spirit that must convince them that their Sabbatical doctrine is based on legalism, and a bid to gain salvation by observing the law. That has never been possible. Neither in ancient Israel, nor today.”

    My reply: Do we not have an obligation to speak to SDA lies, as you have just done? I find it an unpleasant task but one that I feel led to teach against in order to help others who are young in the faith, avoid being influenced by the legalism of SDA proselytizers, such as “Visitor to Earth.”

    You wrote: “Still Sabbath Shalom.”

    My reply: The same to you, Ivar, my friend. 🙂

  59. I wandered into a 24 hour perpetual adoration room and found peace with God there. I have gone back everyday since to spend time in prayer. I noticed under the picture of Jesus, candles and a gaudy gold starburst thing, the people said is a Eucharist. I’m not any religion but am saved by Christ. I am so grateful to have a place I can worship at night, I agreed to volunteer for the night watch. When I was done with my adoration and repenting to Jesus to wash my sins away, I felt good and one with the Lord. I wandered into the mass to see what it was. They did communion at the end and I went up and took communion. I know in my heart, I was cleansed of my sins and my heart was right in God’s eyes. I had no shame or guilt since I knew I was honoring Jesus sacrifice for my sins. When I left the church, the priest asked me to step aside with him. The priest told me to never do that again because I am not Catholic? I was shocked. He also told me to not come to confession. I had committed a mortal sin? I felt really off put and unwelcome. I’m good enough to guard your gaudy relic in the prayer room all night but I’m damned for taking communion? I know not to take communion unless I am right with the Lord. I’m confused and feel really bad now. I talked to God about this, and he is not condemning me to hell for communion. He knows my heart was pure and I was doing it to honor his sacrifice for my sins. I had pure intent that Communion is a beautiful sharing with Christ. My joy suddenly went sour fast and I am bummed out. I’m suppose to walk around with my arms crossed? I called the office to resign the night watch that has been vacant for a year and the ladies begged me to stay on at night. They said I have to go to classes for a year and only on Easter can I take communion? I’m torn. I find such peace when I am alone with God in the room. My relationship with Him is the most important thing to me. I don’t want to be where I am not wanted though. I sincerely with all my heart meant no disrespect or harm. The priest made such a stink about it and I still don’t know why or what I did that is so wrong? When I said I’m uncomfortable coming back, they said some pat answer that “the Devil has me under attack” to keep me from becoming a Catholic? No, it is the rude priest who thinks he knows my heart better than God does. I truly searched my heart and God’s word and I do not feel repentant or even bad about taking communion. Am I wrong? I feel God’s presence around me and He is telling my heart that my alone time with Him, is the most important thing. I have been spending a lot of time in prayer there and am unsure of what to do? Guess I go back tonight and pray on it?

    I know this is not the subject but I am still trying to figure out how I went from communing with God to Hell so quick?
    Someone please enlighten me as to why I am so wicked now?

    1. Stay away from any Roman Catholic church or any church that practices many of the Roman Catholic ways, which includes a large portion of Protestant churches, and be aware that Messianic Judaism/ Hebrew Roots practice many things that are unscriptural as well. Let Messiah Yeshua and the Ruach haKodesh be your guide and YHVH will provide.

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