Word of Faith teachers does not only promote the health and wealth «gospel of prosperity». They also claim that followers of Jesus are gods.
Many Word Of Faith teachers have sought to emphasize the full significance of the believer’s status as sons of God through the redemption by the blood of Jesus the Messiah.
The Word of Faith teachers are using phrases such as «little gods» to describe Christians. Kenneth Hagin wrote that God «made us in the same class of being that he is himself».
And that the believer is «called Christ» because «that’s who we are, we’re «Christ». According to Hagin, by being «born again», the believer becomes «as much an incarnation as Jesus of Nazareth».
Kenneth Copeland says Adam was «not a little like God … not almost like God» and has told believers that «You don’t have a God in you. You are one»
Based primarily on the book of Psalms 82:6, which says «I have said, Ye are gods and all of you, children of the Most High».
This was also corroborated by Jesus making reference to this scripture in John 10:34. A common theme in Word of Faith preaching is that God created man as «an exact duplication of God’s kind».
But quoting Psalm 82:6 without also quoting Psalm 82:7, is twisting and and making a mockery out of the scripture:
Psalm 82:7
«But you will die like mere men; you will fall like every other ruler».
Man was surely created in the image of God, and lived in a perfect place in the Garden of Eden. But that was before the fall. We will also end up in our perfect Heavenly bodies, but not in this present age.
Suffer the Children, a documentary highlighting some of the teachings of the Word of Faith movement, has a video clip of Creflo Dollar teaching the «little gods» doctrine to his congregation based on the notion that “everything reproduces after its own kind.
Dollar: “If horses get together, they produce what?”
Congregation: “Horses!”
Dollar: “If dogs get together, they produce what?”
Congregation: “Dogs!”
Dollar: “If cats get together, they produce what?”
Congregation: “Cats!”
Dollar: “So if the Godhead says ‘Let us make man in our image’, and everything produces after its own kind, then they produce what?”
Congregation: “Gods!”
Dollar: “Gods. Little “g” gods. You’re not human. Only human part of you is this flesh you’re wearing.”
The Bible says this is the teaching of the serpent of the Garden of Eden.
Genesis 3: 1-4:
«Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the LORD God had made. He said to the woman, “Did God really say, ‘You must not eat from any tree in the garden’?»
«The woman said to the serpent, “We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, but God did say, ‘You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die».
«You will not surely die,” the serpent said to the woman. “For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil».
Jesus him self exposes men like Kenneth Copland and Creflo Dollar as false teachers.
John 2:23-25
«Now while he was in Jerusalem at the Passover Feast, many people saw the miraculous signs he was doing and believed in his name. But Jesus would not entrust himself to them, for he knew all men. He did not need man’s testimony about man, for he knew what was in a man».
While Copeland and Dollar are false teachers, the true teacher and Apostle Paul explain to us his status even after being saved by Jesus from Nazareth:
Romans 7: 23:
«What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death? Thanks be to God, through Jesus Christ our Lord».
God never sin. Our Father in Heaven never makes mistakes. Jesus never sinned. But man keeps on making mistakes, even after we are justified and sanctified by the blood of the lam.
James 4:17
Anyone, then, who knows the good he ought to do and doesn’t do it, sins.
One of the purposes of God the Holy Spirit is to convince us about sin, and the fear of God will keep us from sinning. But if you think you can become a «little god» on Earth, you have no fear of God, and have become a fool and a hypocritical liar.
Supporters of men like Kenneth Copland and Creflo Dollar: Get out!
If not repented for, On the day of Judgment they and their followers will burn in the everlasting fire.
Written by Ivar
News that matters 
Outstanding. I was a Word of Faith minister for fourteen years. Keep up the good work
Dear John.
Thanks. Keep on blessing people, and let your light shine among men. Jesus said: You (We) are the light of the World. Not because we are «little gods», bu because we reflect his suffering, humbleness, good heart and glory. Amen. And miracles of many kinds follows in our footsteps, because He walks with us.
Hi Ivar,
Ephesian 2:1As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, 2in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. 3All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our flesh and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature deserving of wrath. 4But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, 5made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved. 6And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, 7in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus. 8For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9not by works, so that no one can boast. 10For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do. (end of scripture)
What do you think Ivar. Is that passage speaking in the present or future tense?
if you speen more time on what god wont you to do.and not judging other you will be happy.so stop it .you to will be judge
Dear child of God.
Shalom, and welcome to this site.
I guess you will also be judged, when you judge me? Should Christians not warn their brothers and sisters about false teachers and false prophets?
We should warn others a little leaven spoils the whole lump. A little poison can still kill you. The sad thing is so many people are not searching the Bible and matching it to what these people are saying. Itching ears like being tickled.
(smile) good answer ! ….I guess you will also be judged, when you judge me?…
The Bible does not forbid judging, it approves it once you have removed the splinter from your own eye, if we didnt judge we could not preach a salvation message to the lost. Have you not read the NT where paul challenged Peter? Your faith in these preachers is greater than your faith in God.
check out this link and defend it if you can anyone.
What do th eunsaved think when they see this, what does the suffering church think when it sees this, what do you think, can you defend this?
Dear Tom,
Thanks for posting that video — his voice is totally demonic.
There is no defense for this shameful teaching that will send all who participate to hell.
“There mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre’s sake” (Titus 1:11)
“Constant friction between men of corrupt mind, who have been robbed of the truth and who think that godliness is a means to financial gain” (1 Tim 6:5)
Amen JM….Amen Tom…for that Video…Oh my heart sank my hand went to my mouth as the screams came out so deep for the masses…and that lady that had an infant on her shoulder, I thought my heart would explode from the pain of Intercession…’another Mother leading her young to the flames of Hell…Oh thank you all for this day of sharing truth!
couldn’t watch the video-says its “private”
Hi Ivar!
Thanks for taking the unpopular role of being a prophet of God and warning His people of the deceitful teachings which have spread like fire 🙂
I think of Micah
1Ki 22:14 “And Micaiah said, As the LORD liveth, what the LORD saith unto me, that will I speak.”
And to people who criticize Ivar for discerning and using the Holy Spirit to test the other spirits, read Paul’s letters – what is Paul doing? He corrects, warns, tears down falsehood and builds up truth; Paul even names the false prophets and throws them out of the Church.
There’s a lot of deceit in the “church” and it is nothing but loving to warn people against it. And if you haven’t seen the deceit, I’m afraid you haven’t seen the Truth.
Ezekiel 33
Dear Martin.
Shalom, and thanks for this comment. Jesus the Messiah warned us about false teachers and prophets. People who warns Christians about discerning Christians, are often the wolfs in sheep clothing that has entered our fellowships.
I listen to all of the above teachers daily, they have alluded me to the many Scriptures, that the Holy Bible does indeed teach about prosperity. It`s a Biblical fact. What they decide to spend our cash on, is really none of my concern, its a issue between God and themselves. I lived in defeat, for most of my life, being taught, that its okay to be poor and in constant fear of God`s wrath. After listening to these teachers, that you malign, I read the Scriptures anew, and confirmed that the God of the Bible wants me Blessed, in every way. Since believing this way, my depressive state of mind has left, which had left me severely crippled emotionally for many years. I think we should realise this fact, that Jesus brought the GOOD NEWS, and so we should know we are no longer under condemnation and slaves to sin.
Funny, but I’ve seen far too many people shackled in the bondage of faith speak put out by Hagin, Copeland and their ilk.
We know we are not under condemnation and slaves to sin. But RE the prosperity Gospel, do the Chinese , Pakistani , North Korean, Sudanese, Iranian etc church not have enough faith as they seem to suffer terribly when according to the money preachers they should be prosperous? What is your advice to the believers in these countries whom suffer and die for their faith praising Jesus, are they failures, do they lack faith, have they not given enough themselves. Read Christianity in Crisis, that opened my eyes tho this mumbo jumbo.
You seem to think we live in fear of God’s wrath, while we live in a depressed state of poverty..(our fear is for those who do not seek The Lord according to His Word..(for truly our joy is unspeakable in Him & with those of like spirit)..as Brother Paul said, ‘We knowing the terror of the Lord, ..2Corinthians 5:11 Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences. 2Corinthians 5:12 For we commend not ourselves again unto you, but give you occasion to glory on our behalf, that ye may have somewhat to answer them which glory in appearance, and not in heart.
Think about this for a second, how many millions of people have accepted Jesus as Saviour, through these teachers efforts? They have NEVER taken away the Glory from God, but have always preached Jesus and the redemption of the cross.I`ts very disturbing now a days, how many Christian sites, spend soo many posts, in proclaiming “false” teachers, whose only modus operandi is to show us that God, wants to bless us, so that we in turn can bless our fellow man, that is less fortunate.
Dear Mel.
Shalom.
You wrote:
They have NEVER taken away the Glory from God, but have always preached Jesus and the redemption of the cross.
My comment:
I was in a Toronto Church for 18 months. So I know what they preach and teach. I have also watched a lot of video’s from the Toronto outpouring. The cross is preached by preachers of the prosperity gospel also. The Pope also preach the cross. But if there is a false Holy Spirit invited into our fellowships, we will all be taken for a ride. Stay out of the Word of Faith Movement, and join a Biblical Church that walk the talk. There is enough of worshiper’s of spirits in the New Age movement, that has also got its copy-cats into “Christianity”.
Please also take a look at the Kundalini warning by Andrew Strom, on the right hand scroll of this blog.
Dear Mel.
Shalom.
You must be aware that there are people who preach the cross, but gives the cross a different meaning. The World of Faith teach that Jesus died spiritually on the cross, (DTS-theology), and was sent to Hell. There He was tormented by Satan.
This kind of theology is a falsification, and a doctrine taught by demons. The spirit of Jesus of the Bible can never die. It is an eternal spirit. Jesus have never been in Hell. Neither has Satan, yet. Nothing good but a false Messiah can rise from Hell, after being tormented by the Devil.
Keep away from the Charismatics who believe in the false Messiah, presented by World of Faith teachers like Benny Hinn and Kenneth Copeland.
So where did Jesus go when he died for three days? I had always been taught by RCC “He descended into hell”.
Dear Kay.
Shalom, and thanks for this question.
Jesus ministered to the spirits in captivity. They are in chain in the kingdom of darkness, that is the abyss, not in Hell. Jesus spent three days in the grave. That is Sheol, not Hell. Hell has no power of Jesus, neither over you. Hell is prepared for the devil and all his children. Hell is the lake of fire, where the Devil will be thrown at the and of the final war. He has not been there, yet.
Dear Key.
Shalom.
You asked:
So where did Jesus go when he died for three days?
My reply:
Where can “dead” people go? The Bible says like Jonah (who did not die) spent three days and three nights in the belly of the fish, so shall the Son of Man spend three days and nights in Sheol. Sheol is the tomb of silence, not Hell.
The King James version mixed up Sheol and Ghenna, the grave and hell. They are not the same realm.
Please read this link:
https://ivarfjeld.wordpress.com/2011/07/19/confused-preachers-claims-jesus-went-to-hell/
The death that Jesus experienced is not like the death taught by men. Jesus is the author of life. Death could not hold him, and the grave (Sheol) could not contain Him. He breathed his last on the cross, and gave the Spirit to His Father. In that moment the carpet in the temple was torn in two pieces. The victory on Calvary was won, Once and for all. Amen.
Do you understand who Jesus is? Fully man and fully God, in one person? The Aplha and Omega. The great “I AM”?
Dear Ivar,
Thank you for your responses. I appreciate them. I will study your link in more detail.
So we are saying then that no one has entered heaven, except for Jesus? And all those who have died are in Sheol? I was taught all my life that souls are already in heaven and hell (& we won’t even mention the ‘p’ word).
Can souls from Sheol appear to men, I wonder? I wonder why Jesus would have needed to minister to them?
To answer your questions, in short form: I do believe that Jesus is fully God and fully Man, that He is the Alpha & the Omega, the great I AM. I seek to understand Him by reading/studying the Bible.
Kay
Dear Kay.
Shalom.
Jesus has not been in Hell. That is my point. He was three days in the grave, and ministered to spirits in captivity in the abyss. He took the key from Satan, who reign from the abyss.
In regards to Heaven, I feel a believer who dies, goes directly to Heaven. He is not kept in captivity, because the devil has no power over Him. Elijah and Moses appeared with Jesus, during the transfiguration. They are not in captivity, but became like ministering angles when they passed away to eternal life. The thief on the cross was set free by Jesus. He was taken to Paradise that day.Amen.
Yes, i understand that Jesus was not in hell. Are all souls in Sheoul destined for hell then? Because if they are, why would Jesus minister to them?
Dear Key.
Shalom.
Thanks for your question.
Every man that has died, has gone to Sheol. (grave). From there Jesus came (will come), and take us to heaven. Only when the rapture comes, this will change. Elijah was taken away in a rapture. Enoch just disappeared.
When Jesus ministered to the spirit in captivity, my best guess is that he did tell them where they failed. He did not set them free. The dead that came into the streets of Jerusalem came from the tomb of silence, (Sheol), where they awaited the resurrection power.
Jesus ministered, and rather took the key from the Devil, when He paid the Abyss a visit. He paraded every evil spirit, and made a spectacle of them. They faced the resurrection and life. There is no other way to Heaven, than through Him.
In the New covenant the Apostle Paul’s said that to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. No Sheol for the believer because a believer experiences the resurection at the time he is born again. Dead in sin ,alive in Christ. Dead in sin ,alive in Christ. Dead in sin ,alive in Christ. That is a spiritual resurection. Paul said
to depart and be with the Lord is better by far, but if he is to remain,
it will mean fruitful labor for him. New testament believers do not go to sheol. Old covenant believers and non believers went to sheol awaiting the ressurection of Christ. Then the judgement for them was next. Every man was judged in accordance to what they had done, and those whose names were written in the Lambs book of life went to eternity in heaven and those whose name were not written in the Lambs book of life went to the lake of fire. Old Covenant ended New Covenant is in play now and forever. Their will not be another covenant.
all,
Old covenant or new, it’s still God’s word. Instead of using your knowledge about God for argument, why not spend your time telling the truth to your friends and neighbors, share Jesus.
Ivar,
Greetings in the name of our Lord Jesus. Great! Nice! Second coming is really at hand. God bless you.
….We will also end up in our perfect Heavenly bodies, but not in this present age….Amen …it is so important to ‘read HIS Word and not be entertained by men and women who live like Kings/Queens while their word is more important than The Word of GOD! Very accurate Post Ivar..thanks for listing it. It is imperative, yet few will be willing to walk that ‘Narrow Path’…the ‘Wide Road’ is the one they want it justifies their defiant attitude towards a Holy God… He says the first step of wisdom is to Fear God…they say…’Don’t fear your Father, He’s a loving God he won’t send you to hell!’…Yet HE says, He and Hell has enlarged to receive them.!
its so disgusting when Benny Hinn and his friends are so greedy
….he isn’t the only one, Sweetie…by no means!! Unless we allow ‘as a Gift from Jesus’ not of our own merits, (which our own merits deserve Hell and all it’s torments for Eternity..Check out Deuteronomy 28# anyone who has an intimate relationship with Jesus Christ, will think HE wrote that chapter just for them (smile)..!! (the part of ‘IF don’t Obey the Voice of The Lord thy God…) But this is not preached in any…”98% of the CHURCH’s” it’s called ‘Hell Fire and Damnation’.. because people don’t want to be accountable for anything or anybody, WE are to esteem others better than ourselves, that’s hard to do when we are told ‘Self-esteem’ garbage..but it is preached in God’s Holy Word With ‘real Love’ (His gentle love), Like a father telling his children don’t go out of the yard or you’ll get a whipping”…they go out of the yard and they cry because they “know” he’s going to whip them…but these prosperity people tell the people, aww God won’t punish you just repent and he’ll forgive it’s OK just don’t do it again..Hog-spit…(smile) that’s the plastic love of this world. The prosperity message has doomed and led the sheep to the slaughter like any other false religion…you don’t hear them bleating unless they don’t get what they want..but when He returns, and casts those in the Lake of Fire there will be a lot of bleating! I wish Ivar would put more on this site about this subject it’s no better than the Catholics, or Mormons or the Witches on TV so many say ‘it’s just a TV show lighten up!! I apologize I should have not written so much ‘again’…perhaps I need a lesson in ‘doing what I am asked not to do’! This is not my site and not following the rules is also not respecting the owner and others…I could shorten this, to cover my wrong, but NO, some need to see that even in this, we do not honor our God! Nor do we honor the others who may want to give their opinions also or the Mediators and Owner of this site!
Yo ivar! So its back to this again. Do u really think with your pious attitude u r really doing the will of God by discrediting these word of faith teachers and code ming them to Gods judgement/wrath? Are u calling them satin? What exactly in your understanding is a christian life suposed to look like? U mentioned the apostle paul referring to himself as a wretched man asking who will rescue me from this body of death”as one recieves the holy spirit and continues to grow in the spirit u will become painfully aware of sin in your life and the reality that the body/ carnal man is intensely persuing death. It is a war spirit vs. flesh. Paul does not instruct us to persue worldly riches ,he insructs us to persue the only true lasting riches found only in christ Jesus. If u persue worldly riches by following fleshly cravings then u are decieved and the truth is not in u, if u r seeking Jesus diligently as we r called to do renewing your mind daily by the word of God then u will come to r ealize that God has made available everything you need to be blessed and to bless others all in accordance to furthering the kingdom. Who wants to climb on board of a “religion” where in order to represent your god you got to be a broke ass? The appostles u mention were called to introduce a radical new “faith” to a very “religious” culture this was setting a foundation for what would be a ever growing movement of people comming into the faith and renewing there minds to be able to live the good news by faith. Its all in his word as you can receive it with your spirit, wealth, health, peace, joy, rest, eternity, etc . . . .
Dear Neil,
You have been completely and totally deceived and you are in grave danger. Ivar has done an excellent job in warning about this very dangerous movement — that if followed is “another gospel.”
Prosperity theology IS the end-time church of Laodicea that Jesus gave a dire warning about in the messages to the seven churches (Rev. 2-3).
“Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked: I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.”
Every one of these fraudulent con-men or women who show up on TBN or elsewhere claiming some magic formula that supposedly brings health, wealth, and happiness is a liar. Nowhere does it say in the Bible that we are to visualize what we need, then “claim it” and “speak it” into existence. The only thing that is “spoken” into existence by this hoax posing as the gospel, is money gained by intentional deception by the embezzler whose open wallet is like the mouth of hell.
When these impostors get caught by the IRS, in adultery, or in other heinous sins and are splattered across the pages of national newspapers and magazines in compromising positions — they will always blame someone else for their own despicable behavior. It’s usually the “devils” fault and a way for them to avoid taking any personal responsibility. They all come up with some ridiculous explanation for their own high crimes and misdemeanors that sound something like this:
“I had a few months of spiritual warfare with satan BUT Devil, you are a liar! I command you, devil to go! You will not have my joy! You will not take my life! You will not take my faith! My faith is my seed! I plant that seed, devil! You can’t have it! You can’t hunt me down, devil! You can’t ruin my reputation! You can’t take away my ministry! You can’t have my false teeth! You can’t have my fake body parts! You can’t have my face lift, nose job, earlobe repair, arm job, liposuction, wigs, toenail polish, billion dollar homes, trillion dollar toilet, or billion dollar airplanes! I’m claiming my territory back, devil! I’m getting my dream back! I’m getting my prophesy back! I’m getting my vision back! I’m getting my anointing back! I’m getting my strength back!”
Then the entire listening audience deceived by this emotional chanting starts stomping and screaming, “that’s right devil, that’s right!” etc. ad nauseum.
NO WONDER JESUS SAID THAT HE WOULD VOMIT THIS CHURCH OUT OF HIS MOUTH!
This magical, unbiblical formula of health and wealth is blasphemy and more than just nauseating — it is full-on PROJECTILE VOMITING.
The only “good thing” about this prosperity gospel is that it is a sign to true believers that Christ’s return is at the door. Since the seven churches represent not only the seven churches of Asia minor but also the seven church ages since the death of Christ to His second coming:
“write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things WHICH SHALL BE HEREAFTER” (Rev. 1:19)
Jesus has told us in advance that when we see an end-time massive church movement deceived into believing that wealth equals God’s favor with no real spiritual understanding — this would be the self-righteous church of Laodicea at the end of the age.
On another note, it is also interesting that this movement started *around* 1948 with Oral Roberts — the same year of the rebirth of Israel. The Parable of the fig tree says, “Behold the fig tree, (Israel) and all the trees (nations of the world); When they now shoot forth, ye see and know of your own selves that summer is now nigh at hand. So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand” (Luke 21:29-33).
The prosperity gospel and he rebirth of Israel are but two signs that tell us we have arrived at the end of the age. I’m frankly shocked that the true Bride of Christ is still here.
Dear jm. Thank you for your concern regarding me being decieved. I would ask you the same question as I asked ivar “what in your opinion does the life of a true christian look like” is it a life of poverty, poor health, disturbed mind, constant hardship, etc? as we draw close to him and he draws close to us we can begin to know his will for our lives personely. In my case he has made it very clear to me what is good for me and what will hurt me and cause seperation between he and i. He gives me decernment regaurding finances and material wealth. I desire to mature in my materialfinancial life according to his appointment not my carnal self he gives me much peace when I trust him to meet my needs and not worry about lack . I have experienced a season of being caught up in persute of worldly riches and the plagues that follow, I now live a super abundent life of Gods provision to meet my needs on a daily basis. I do not live in want and am very aware that the riches of this world aim to snatch away those that persue them outside of Gods will. Again I would add the gospel is the good news that you dont have to be poor, sick or downtroden. A loving father knows how to bless his children in what he give them so not to hurt them if for me its a family, rescources to help others, peace, joy, love and rest and for you its all that pluss planes, cars, homes, money etc he knows what he can entrust into our hands to bless us not to hurt us. There are two systems at work here, the world system and the kingdom system, death and life.
Dear Neil,
“For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows (1 Timothy 6:10).
The teachings that you claim are Biblical are so far-fetched that I don’t even know where to begin in answering your questions. It appears that you need to start reading and studying the Bible because you don’t even have a general concept of the ABC’s. If you did, there would be no way you would or could defend this blasphemous teaching.
Jesus said that we are take up our cross and follow Him, forsaking this world. His calling on our lives might result in poverty, rejection and persecution. If you study the lives of the disciples you will see that they were willing to face any manner of death because they were not of this world. Matthew 5:12 says, “Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you”.
The Bible says, “for where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.” As true followers of Christ, this world is not our home, we are merely sojourners here. If the deepest desire of your heart is Jesus then no amount of fame, fortune, wealth, pleasure, success, or health could even be considered.
In the interest of time, in part from:
http://www.watchman.org/reltop/health$.htm
Regarding Healing
Healing is part of the redemptive work of God and there are gifts of healing given to some (James 5:14-15). But this does not mean that everyone is entitled to divine healing and perfect health. Born of a mortal body, we are subject to decay and death (1 Cor. 13-14). When God does not heal, it is a a sign of the future Age already at work in the present.
The word of faith movement has twisted scripture in regards to sickness and disease for the sake of filthy lucre.
“Yet, since physical disease was clearly recognized to be a consequence of the Fall, one may argue that healing also finds its focal point in the atonement. But saying that does not imply all faithful Christians should experience perfect health. Even historic Pentecostalism, which believes healing was provided for in the atonement, does not hold that view. The position paper on divine healing adopted by the General Presbytery of the Assemblies of God makes it clear that healing is “provided for” because the “atonement brought release from the consequences of sin.” Nonetheless, since we have not yet received the “redemption of our bodies”, suffering and death are still our lot until the resurrection”.
Regarding Wealth
The cardinal fault with the prosperity gospel is one central tenet: God wills the financial prosperity of every Christian, therefore, for a believer to live in poverty is living outside God’s intended will. No matter how much one tries to clothe the above affirmations in Biblical garb, it is simply not Biblical.
Kenneth Copeland explains this verse on page 51 of his book, The Laws of Prosperity, says, “You must realize that it is God’s will for you to prosper. This is available to you, and frankly, it would be stupid of you not to partake of it”. We should not take it as an universal promise or guarantee of health and wealth. The Greek word translated “prosper” in the KJV means “to go well with someone”. This wish for “things to go well” and for “good health” was the standard form of greeting in personal letter of antiquity, just as a friend today might say, “I hope this letter finds you all well”.
Another popular text for the word-faith teachers, with regard to prosperity, is John 10:10. Unfortunately, it has nothing to do with material abundance. According to Moody Monthly issue, the “abundant life” Jesus talked about here is the same “life” or “eternal life” in John’s gospel and is the equivalent of the “kingdom of God”. “It literally means the “life of the Age to come”. It is the life that God has in and of Himself; and it is His gift to believers in the present age. Material abundance is not implied either in “life” or “to the full”. Such an idea is totally foreign to the context of John 10 as well as to the whole teaching of Jesus.
Many in the word-faith movement treat God as if He is a God simply there only to cater to our every wish as we ask it and that His entire purpose in heaven is simply to do our bidding. Kenneth Hagin has even written a booklet entitled, “How to write your own ticket with God”
Word of Faith Version: Psalm 23
“The Lord is may banker; my credit is good. He maketh me to lie down in the consciousness of omnipresent abundance; He giveth me the key to His strong box; He restoreth my faith in His riches; He guideth me in the paths of prosperity for his name’s sake. Yea, though I walk in the very shadow of debt, I shall fear no evil, for Thou art with me; Thou preparest a way for me in the presence of the collector; Thou fillest my wallet with plenty; my measure runneth over. Surely goodness and plenty will follow me all the days of my life, And I shall do business in the name of the Lord forever.”
In contrast to word-faith theology, sound biblical theology teaches that God does not have to do anything. God, the Creator of all things, is sovereign in all things, not the creature. God is not obligated to heal or prosper anyone, yet He graciously does, and neither is deserved. Someone has said: “healing is not a divine obligation, it is a divine gift”. The receiver of the gift can make no demands. God can be trusted to do all things well.
Perhaps the root error of the gospel of health and wealth is that it seeks to apply a theology of future glory to the believer in the here and now. But the Lord Jesus taught a theology for here and now that both sustains believers in hard times and holds out hope for tomorrow.
Christians should not claim now what God in His grace has promised only for the future.
Dear jm. thank you for your educated response, however it seems to me that you have misunderstood my position here. My love is for Jesus not money I guess I didnt make that clear. We as christians have a instruction manuel “the bible” and to sweeten the deal we have a teachet “the holy spirit” I would not claim to have a complete understanding of all scriptures start to finish but I do have a daily relationship with my father in heaven not based in human intelect but in spirit. I preceive many christians tend to equip there religious minds with the word of God for the intent and purpose of passing judgement and condeming others rather than building them up, that is a trap and a snare of the devil! If you in all you intelect cant see the goodness God has for you in this life then my friend you might want to make sure your worshiping God in spirit and not in flesh. The christian life is certainly not about money, material wealth etc but dont think for a minute that our God cant bless you in this way. Depending on the holy spirit to convey these truths is paramount and can simplify what otherwise can be very complicated. One does not have to be a bible scholar to hear from God and receive his provision you must have received the holy spirit to truly be able to know the truth.
Dear Neil,
You said, “don’t think for a minute that God can’t bless you in this way.”
Of course God can do anything He wants to do which includes material blessings. However the “name it claim it” crowd claims that this is an absolute right for every believer which is sheer blasphemy.
You have more than enough information on this site alone: https://ivarfjeld.wordpress.com/category/word-of-faith-movement/ about this false teaching to help propel you to flee from it now before it’s too late. I would consider this a very serious and urgent warning to you. It is not I who pass judgment on this false teaching, it is the Word of God that does.
Please read this link in its entirety:
http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Wolves/word_faith.htm
“We have seen enough evidence to conclude that the Word-Faith message is a dangerous soul-destroying heresy that simply does not work. It is a body of presumptuous teachings that lacks the authority of the Word of God. It is a system of thinking that has been generated by a group of men drawing from each other’s teachings with an amalgamation of Christian theology, mysticism and Gnosticism bound together by one of the most fanciful methods of Scripture interpretation ever devised. All of this is buttressed by a mutual admiration society among the most popular of the Word-Faith teachers that admonishes critics to “touch not the Lord’s anointed,” often under dire threats of divine displeasure.
“The Word-Faith movement has done more than its share of producing strife in the body of Christ. Scores of well-meaning Christians are in bondage to this unscriptural philosophy. The results of the Word-Faith teachings is to leave many people full of confusion, guilt and fear – the very things that the Word-Faith movement professes to eradicate.”
One of the sad things is when some are sick, they say ‘I won’t claim that’..’but they do claim “all” donations so they can get ‘that refund’ for giving/tithing….sad! that spirit that has them in bondage rares it’s ugly head when you try to tell them this is not scriptural! You got to ‘SHOW ME’ where it says that, then you do and it’s ‘That’s not what Jesus means…! (Go figure)!! (smile)
I check out that link on ‘Jesus ..wolves….”It is so overwhelming to say the least…one can’t read it all at once..makes my head spin” …however thank you very ”very” much !
JM…I enjoyed reading your post…I have a question for you..dig a little deeper on the … When these impostors get caught by the IRS..if people would read the ‘limitations on the Tax Exempt Rules for anyone and the church’s being able to be ‘Tax Exempt’, these prosperity people would not have ‘quite as much to ‘boast about’! But they only think about ‘how much they don’t have to pay in taxes of all kinds! How can this World of Believers rule and reign with Jesus if while in the World we’re full of thieves and liars, while in the back room paying off the ones we sinned with in the shadows of darkness! Jesus speaks clearly about this ‘Claiming a Refund’ on what we give!
Dear Andrea,
I am certainly not an expert when it comes to “tax exempt status” as I only live in this world but am not of it. I agree though that these frauds will be accountable for the things they do under the cloak of darkness and frankly can’t wait until they face an angry God who they have blasphemed for personal gain.
It’s very sad that so many have been deceived by false teachings. I’m not elevating myself above others when I say this as I have been exposed to many wolves in sheep’s clothing who have attempted to deceive over the last two decades or so. I remember going to these Word of Faith churches unaware of what they were teaching and had many people come up and “prophesize” over me. Everything they said never came to pass. If it did, I would (according to them) own millions of dollars worth of property where “shopping centers and malls” would be built, and have such incredible material worth that it would make even Warren Buffet green with envy.
But the fact is, I live a simple life with meager possessions. I guess according to them, my “faith wasn’t strong enough” to make me a millionaire. Funny that Jesus tells us that our faith only needs to be the size of a mustard seed, which is one of the smallest seeds there is.
I hope and pray that all those trapped in this movement will realize that the true blessings of the Lord are not money, material possessions or vibrant health. It is the Lord Jesus Himself who is infinitely more than anything we could ever ask for or imagine. That His Grace saved us who were lost in our sins and trespasses. That He calls us to an intimate, eternal love affair with Himself.
“Thou hast beset me behind and before, and laid thine hand upon me. Such knowledge is too wonderful for me; it is high, I cannot attain unto it” (Psalm 139:5-6).
Blessing to you, Andrea 🙂
JM..Thank you for your reply today…Whew! amazing, kind of makes one want to just ‘step back and punt’ with all the false religions from the beginning to the last days, (now). I chose the 66 Books of the Bible, all other books ‘hit the trash can’ ie Dipsty Dumpster (smile) in a way that no one would want to try to use them ever! I had emergency surgery in March, it was only supposed to be for a couple of hours at the most..I stayed in ICU for 11 days, my family was told 4 times I was near death, it kept my family tore up, I came home, and had surgery again 4 days ago. The scripture that kept coming to me when people wanted to ‘name it claim it’ was Paul and those with him ‘knew they were going to die’…these man who many claim had given his-self over to death…yet in the end The Lord granted him longer on this earth. Like you and many like you, I by no means think of myself above what the Word says I am…and I know it is totally by His Great Grace..this experience was so sobering not in ‘an awake call’…but in the ‘Be still and know I am God’..(He is far more than any ”any” denominational creed, far more than this Universe Creation, yes..He truly is personal as I have known Him, for so many years and…more Holy than this World has words to describe!!…(in this situation also, was I able to give myself also over to death. It wasn’t easy…to resign oneself as such..Yet I knew without a doubt HE was with me in strength, to ‘endure’ no matter what! Whether to wake to see my family here, or see My Lord face to face…This is the Jesus I see in His Word, not a Santa Claus plastic god only helping those ‘chosen few’ who give him more money!…I sent out a copy of what one of the lessons on here was and got a call from someone several states away…they said, “I read that and felt a strong desire to call you to tell you thanks and ask your advice on something, that is a Holy reminder all we do, we do before Him we must obey His leading, or we will follow another false leader.” So on behalf of him, from several states away, I say “Thank you for your lessons” you reached ‘another one’…on False Leaders, Deceivers of His Word…those that have ears to hear do hear!
Dear Andrea,
You said:
“By His Great Grace..this experience was so sobering not in ‘an awake call’…but in the ‘Be still and know I am God.’”
I thank the Lord for you and how He has given you the gift of discernment and compassion for those who have been misled by error. I pray that you are feeling better and fully healed. It is in these moments of crisis that His peace and comfort surpass all understanding — as He keep us in perfect peace as we rest in Him. Nothing can ever take us away from His sovereignty.
It’s interesting that it is only when life brings us to a place where we find ourselves in situations that seem beyond comprehension, that we find Him standing right beside us. When you reached out to touch the hem of His garment in the hospital, Andrea, just like the woman with the issue of blood — He said, “Who touched my clothes?” (Mark 5:30)
May He be praised even in these times, because we see that His power is made perfect in infirmity. One day soon we will be able to lay our armor down before Him and be free. It won’t be long, as He knows just how and when to take us home.
God bless you!
JM we go thru trials daily, nightly and we know He is there, yet there is never (as you and all who Know HIM) a time when we Know His presence is right beside us, we never shout, demand, quote His Word to Him nor tell Him what His responsibility He has to do for us…Ohhh No, we in our hearts fall on our face before His Majesty and on the outward we’re in fear anyone who would be so foolish before and to The Great Royal KING! ( the man of beating his chest, crying I’m unclean, a sinner before Him is a prime example). Thank you JM, brother, for your kind words. I’m doing well.
Dear jm. Again thank u for your educated prospective on this issue.I sense the issue of faith is a threatening notion to many people God says without it it is impossible to please him so why do people constantly find fault with people who simply follow his instructions. I have to tell u as I learn to trust God in more and more areas of my life my life gets better and better, I have more peace more joy and a better quality of life. I read my bible every day and he tells me not to fear or worry but to just trust him,so I do and the results are amazing. I by no means subscribe to the name it claim it mentality I dont know how u were raised or weather u have children or not but the way I would describe how faith works is my father loves me and he knows this world wants to hurt me so he gives his spirit residence within me so I can discern and understand the perverse nature of this fallen world so not to partake of its evil desire for me but instead I recieve from him all I need. He sends me out into the world each day with the blessed hope as my foundation and from there I thrive! u say that I am in grave danger, but I say that was the old me the new me is a stranger in the land just passin through on my way upward. Word of faith, most definately!
Our Lord Jesus commanded us to love one another as I have loved you.
We are to learn from our Bible this involves
1 Thessalonians 5
21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.
Which is easy right?
Not if we fail to put into practice the next part.
Verse 6
22 Abstain from all appearance of evil.
Whoever we listen to, whoever claims to be a servant of the Lord and preaching truth, we, have to examine their fruits (the words they speak).
In order to deceive someone the deceiver has to take some truth and twist it.
By applying 1thess 5 with the help of the Living God, we can learn to spot the point of deception.
Having identified one who strays from the truth, we then have to separate ourselves from them.
Having identified a false teacher we might desire to prevent others from being deceived, but, in doing so we also prevent others from applying their knowledge and the instruction to ‘prove all things’ and ‘hold fast that which is good’.
Does the Lord tell us to name and shame false teachers?
I’ve not come across it.
What the Bible does tells us is that.
Luke 21 verse 8
8 And he said, Take heed that ye be not deceived: for many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and the time draweth near: go ye not therefore after them.
So, there will even be false teachers who acknowledge that the end times are near, even they should not be followed, their doctrine also can be proven false.
‘prove all things, hold fast to the truth’
2Timothy 4:14 Alexander the coppersmith did me much evil: the Lord reward him according to his works:
2Timothy 4:15 Of whom be thou ware also; for he hath greatly withstood our words.
Acts 8:1 And Saul was consenting unto his death. And at that time there was a great persecution against the church which was at Jerusalem; and they were all scattered abroad throughout the regions of Judaea and Samaria, except the apostles.
Acts 8:3 As for Saul, he made havock of the church, entering into every house, and haling men and women committed [them] to prison.
…The Scriptures in the Old Testament & New Testament has many scriptures about who did what to who and where, why etc to ‘warn the believers’…it’s just not preached as HE says it, it is ‘white-washed’…
Hi Andrea,
I was sorry to read that you had been so ill. I have prayed for you and hope the Lord will continue to use you to minister to His people here in the days ahead. These are very evil days but we will continue to encourage each other, now “…that the Day of His coming back again is drawing near.” (Hebrews 10:25). We may or may not have a while to wait until the Lord Jesus comes to rescue all of us. But we know that He is with us at every moment and may come for any of us at any time. In either case, this life with all of its pain and trouble will be a distant memory when we are with Him in Paradise. That thought is what sustains me. I pray blessings on you today.
Ellen
Ellen, Thank you very much for your prayers and care. It means a lot to me! All of yall are in my prayers too. The PT (physical therapist) Director left a little while ago said I am able to start walking out of the house to build up endurance. So Praise The Lord I am ‘set loose’ on society again (smile) but the thing I wanted to share with you is this, he is a Catholic, we sat here not talking about Catholicism but just talked about Jesus and the ministry I am allowed to do by God’s grace..(he asked)..then as he left we talked more in the yard how he has received the Baptism of The Holy Spirit, and his life is changing, he reads his Bible daily, he asked what Bible I use, I told him King James as a whole, he does too. I could see the awesome work Jesus has and is doing in this man. Now he has a hunger to reach out to migrant workers (majority Catholic) about Jesus. We had no mention of (false) Mary, or the Pope except by me telling him about the Chrislam and who supports it, including the Pope. He is totally against it. Another one thru this site with the blessed help of The Lord has been blessed! Yall keep sharing the Truth of these false religions & false leaders yall will get some enemies (smile)! Cause I (and others) will ‘flat’ tell all who breathe (smile).
Thank you Ellen for the information…and thank you for the prayers, I do covet the prayers of the Saints.
In each passage where the Bible refers to man as gods, it is judgment. Each time God is either challenging them, judging them or judging those who choose to align with them. If someone would just take the time to read the surrounding passages in context they would clearly see that most false teachers contradict their own doctrine with the scriptures they twist.
It is the responsibility of every believer to uphold the truth so that each person can make a clear choice. If someone is deceived, it should be a knowing choice to reject the scriptures. We can’t make people want God, but we can uphold His truth so that people can see what choice they are making. _ Keep up the good work Ivar & keep looking up!
The video was nauseating. A totally shameless display of naked greed. It is hard to understand how their adherents can not see through what they are doing! They too will be caught up in the end-time, one-world-religion that will be the Whore of Babylon. Please come soon Lord Jesus.
….It is hard to understand how their adherents can not see through what they are doing!…many are looking ‘for The Lord’ to be in their life like (they say) he is in these people’s lives. They are hurting, and in much need and have been the recipent of the organized religions for years as they also have seen their families and others suffer unless you’re the Blond-Fair-haired-child.
I don’t blame the adherents, Andrea—I understand that they are deceived and have real needs and that the churches should be helping them. But I do not understand why they do not see that the only ones getting rich are the Word of Faith preachers.
…Sister, they don’t see it …just like you and I didn’t see it till His Glorious light shined in our hearts! some are escaping these shackles as they decide this don’t work for them and they are turning to His Word comparing what HE says to what they say..(smile) ..I got an Email today just ‘today’…from a very devout christian sister..who asked me to ‘pray for ‘as she said….’hopefully he will be our next president’ (a Pharaoh wanna-be) Mitt Romney…my heart sank in fear for her! The prosperity gospel says ‘he’s prosperous and ‘knows how to get us out of debt…Hog-spit to the worlds ‘know-it-all’ people..(smile) the current Pharaoh is not broke! What I pray for is Proverbs 21:1 ..for strength to endure & glorify God for His choice of where HE chooses to lead the next & current Leaders in His plan as HE did with Pharaoh of Old in Egypt!
I agree, Andrea. It seems that all in national politics are pretty wealthy. That is part of the problem—they have affiliation to their class, the rich and privileged elite. None of them know what it is like to struggle to feed their families and keep a roof over their heads. To a one, they all believe that anyone could do what they have done. But the Bible tells us that not only riches come from God but also the ABILITY to be successful. He commanded the Israelites to take care of the poor and Jesus said that taking care of the poor is the same as caring for Him.
I agree Sister..Many areas there we could spend much time in discussing, however (I’d have to repent or come dangerously close to it), because I have no desire to get caught up where it would lead, in the “How much is the Presidency of the U.S.A and/or other such High Offices going for today”? That’s one ‘hook-line-sinker’ I bit with no reservations years ago, if my spirit could be seen, one would see many ‘hook scars’ on my face where I bit that hook and fell for most of the lies from many we’re taught to revere in life’s journey, while The Blessed Lord Jesus was put on hold for Easter, Christmas, nightly prayers, grace before eating and any other ‘acceptable religious holiday’..! (according to Pharaoh Obama a couple of weeks ago, he needed only 1 billion dollars to win the Election..!)
The ugliest part of Word of Faith teaching is that “…you will certainly experience healing if you have enough faith…” A young woman in our church was diagnosed with ovarian cancer (one of the most deadly kind) and in her desperation (at the time that she was diagnosed, she and her husband had three school-aged children at home) sought out “faith healers”. They were constantly at her home for months and more or less blocked our church people out of her life. Her husband (who is a strong Christian and thoroughly knows the Bible) was trying to get them out of his home but he was reluctant to upset his wife by rejecting her new “friends”. On the night she died, he was told by the “ringleader” of the group that the reason she was dying was that he didn’t have enough faith! This poor man was not only losing his dearly loved wife and the mother of his children, but on top of it, he received abuse from those people. I couldn’t help but weep for him as he related to some of us what had happened.
…Same answer with all who profess they have power…’It’s your fault, no faith, misplaced faith, and the others don’t have enough faith’…I will hand the Catholic Priests a different answer they easily come up with..’Your child died because God wanted another Angel’.. they have many excuses, just like the Shysters how Hawk out amenities while asking for ‘Tax Exempt’ donations! yet if we would take God’s Word instead of the people we want to over-ride our situations,..this too is a part of “Just who do we really trust, (to go thru it or get delivered from it)..Jesus or Man when we crisis occurs?”
Probably the most dangerous thing that these false teachers promote is a “strong theosis”—that is, that we “are little gods”. It is just a short step from there to the satanic deception from the Garden of Eden, “You won’t die!…God knows that your eyes will be open when you eat it. You will become just like God, knowing everything, both good and evil.” (Gen. 3:4-5) Perhaps these men feel godlike in their financial power and influence.
Ellen …we are living in an interesting time to say the least!
Ellen I just thought of something, (smile) People don’t care about being “Little gods” they want what they want ‘now’ and the more they get it the more that ‘little god demon’ will surface in the ‘I have Rights’ (yours! )
Quite true, Andrea. That is great about your physical therapist! You might want to recommend the New Living Translation for those who are new to the Bible. The narrative flow is much better than the King James and is much more understandable when you get into the denser theology of the Apostle Paul’s epistles. The King James is great for memorizing though. The ESV is almost as good as the King James for memorization and has readibility that is a bit better than the King James. For absolute accuracy from Greek to English (when you are studying a New Testament passage in depth) the New American Standard is the best word-for-word translation. I’m told by my Jewish-Christian friend that the New International Version is the best Hebrew to English translation when working in the Old Testament. You must have the gift of evangelism. It is interesting that the thought that kept popping into my head as I was praying for you is that we need you here to minister to folks.
Blessings,
Ellen
Hmmm, personally and no offence meant Ellen I would not touch any of these translations nor paraphrases that water down the deity of Christ, remove references to His blood and drop major doctrines, I would stick to the KJV, even the NKJV which has a number of issues but is better than most or for the most accurate and easy to read english version try the Halleluyah Scriptures, check out th elink, its a beaut mate
http://www.halleluyahscriptures.com/
Have no fear if “anyone” lacks knowledge in understanding there will always be ‘another Bible running down the pike’ and that one will be ”the one” all can understand…..and with the changes in ‘many Bibles (doctrines, denominations) that what ever or however you want to believe…Satan has ‘a New Bible’ on the shelf just for you!
If Thee, Thou, is too hard to understand..if they really wanted the Truth they would have spent more time on their knees praying and fasting for The Lord God to reveal His Word to them, but it is far easier..easier, quicker to get ‘the jest’ of the Word ‘until Truth’ hits them right between the eyes (smile)…few would want to hear The Truth because their Choice of Bibles ‘is the only one’ that knows the Truth….sad but very true…a generation of I can have what I want even God will have to yield to how I understand things…As for the Anointing …when it’s present will be Truth the rest are ‘false’..Some don’t have the power to blow their nose let alone to blow some of the cobwebs out of their soul.
Did I not build massive churches and prophecy in your name? ‘Depart from me, I never knew you’.
Hi Ivar! I appreciate your page and you have really found some truths. But I have a couple of questions and reflections, since you said that the dead believers would go to heaven when they leave this earth.
1. How could they go to heaven before the first resurrection?
2. How could the thief on the cross go to heaven before Jesus?
He was preaching in Sheol as you said and then resurrected. The gospels tells us he was with the disciples, and after 40 days he went up to heaven.
3. Paul talks about the ones who are a sleep and will be resurrected first in: 1 tess 4:15.
4. Rev. 20 talks about the martyrs who will be the ones who will be resurrected first and will rule in the messianic kingdom for thousand years with Jesus.
5. John 3:13. “And no man hath ascended up to heaven……”
6. Lazarus was dead (John 11:14, 12:1) and was raised up.
How could he have been in heaven.
7. Luke 16:22-31 About Lazarus and the rich man who talked to each other? How could this be in Heaven? They where at two different locations. Lazarus was with Abraham.
More interesting passages:
8. 1 cor. 15:20
9. 2 pet. 3:4
10. Luke 14:14
11. John 11:23-24
Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again. Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.
* Elia and Moses never died! So that is why I believe they are in heaven. But the rest of the believers have to wait for the resurrection.
I hope you do not believe like the Catholic church that Maria and the “saints” are in heaven? It does not seem like that when I read your other posts. Theres no ground for that kind of teaching in the bible.
I hope you have time to reflect on this points I made.
Best regards/
A
Azaryahu
Shalom.
Thanks for good questions:
1. How could they go to heaven before the first resurrection?
ANSWER:
God of Israel saved those who came with blood for sacrifice. When Jesus died on the cross, this covenant was replaced with a better.
2. How could the thief on the cross go to heaven before Jesus?
ANSWER:
Jesus is the eternal God who came in flesh. He is the resurrection and life. He also called Lazarus out of the grave (Sheol).
He was preaching in Sheol as you said and then resurrected. The gospels tells us he was with the disciples, and after 40 days he went up to heaven.
ANSWER:
Jesus preached to the spirits in chains, and snatched the key to death from the devil. Than (or maybe first) He paid God the Father a visit and presented His own blood, and the redemption for sins.
3. Paul talks about the ones who are a sleep and will be resurrected first in: 1 tess 4:15.
ANSWER:
I believe they are like Lazarus. They are in Sheol, and awaits the resurrection. Those who have been taken out of Sheol and into heaven do not have to be resurrected.
4. Rev. 20 talks about the martyrs who will be the ones who will be resurrected first and will rule in the messianic kingdom for thousand years with Jesus.
ANSWER:
Those who have been beheaded will rule in the Messianic Kingdom. That is people who have been martyred in the last days. The rest will come with Jesus as Angles, and land with a big bang on the Mount of Olives in Jerusalem.
5. John 3:13. “And no man hath ascended up to heaven……”
ANSWER:
Only Jesus can go, walk, in and out of Heaven, as He desires. He walked in the Garden of Eden, He appeared and had a meal with Abraham, We was in the pillar of light with Moses and the Hebrews out of Egypt, and He walked in the flesh in Jerusalem.
I hope this was helpful.
6. Lazarus was dead (John 11:14, 12:1) and was raised up.
How could he have been in heaven.
ANSWER:
Lazarus had not been i Heaven. He was laid to rest in Sheol, waiting for the resurrection and life.
7. Luke 16:22-31 About Lazarus and the rich man who talked to each other? How could this be in Heaven? They where at two different locations. Lazarus was with Abraham.
ANSWER:
This is a different Lazarus. He was with Abraham in Heaven.
Hi Ivar! Thanks for your answers, but they do open up for some more questions.
1. I have to ask again how can any person be in heaven before the resurrection. Who are the believers who are going to be resurrected and who are the believers who are in heaven? Do you mean that it is two different groups?
2. You do not answer this question. How could the thief on the cross go up to heaven before Jesus? Jesus was in Sheol for three days and then resurrected and then after 40 days he went up to heaven?
Where was the thief during this time?
3. Here you say that Lazarus is in Sheol. Who are the believers who have been taken out of Sheol and into heaven?
4. Here you say that the rest will come as angels with Jesus when he returns. I can only find that the bible says he will return with his angels. Do you believe this means people / believers? Once again, who are those believers? Revelations 20 speak about the second resurrection (probably for those who are not martyrs), how do you intepret this passage?
7. About Lazarus and the rich man. The bible does not say that he is in heaven. Lazarus and the rich man talked to each other, it seems more reasonable that they are both in a waiting place (Sheol).
8. One more question. Where do you think Maria and the apostles are? In Sheol waiting for the resurrection (I suppose most of them are martyrs) or in heaven?
It will be interesting to hear your reply.
/A
Dear Azaryahu
Shalom.
I will try to answer your questions:
1. I have to ask again how can any person be in heaven before the resurrection. Who are the believers who are going to be resurrected and who are the believers who are in heaven? Do you mean that it is two different groups?
ANSWER:
The ancient Jewish believe is that the soul is separated from the body in Sheol after three days. That is why they wept over Lazarus. Jesus came on the forth day, and no one believed that Jesus could wake him up. Jesus displayed for all who is THE resurrection and life.
2. You do not answer this question. How could the thief on the cross go up to heaven before Jesus? Jesus was in Sheol for three days and then resurrected and then after 40 days he went up to heaven? Where was the thief during this time?
ANSWER:
Jesus had the authority to send the thief to heaven on the very same day. Jesus did enter Heaven while his body was in Sheol. Jesus was not confined to his Earthly body after He “died” on the cross. He reentered a bloodless body. That was why Miriam from Magdala did not recognize Him.
3. Here you say that Lazarus is in Sheol. Who are the believers who have been taken out of Sheol and into heaven?
ANSWER:
All human being will leave Sheol after three days, and face judgment. Those who believe will be permitted inside Heaven. The rest will depart for Hell.
4. Here you say that the rest will come as angels with Jesus when he returns. I can only find that the bible says he will return with his angels. Do you believe this means people / believers? Once again, who are those believers? Revelations 20 speak about the second resurrection (probably for those who are not martyrs), how do you intepret this passage?
ANSWER:
I am not God, and do not have in-sight in events that goes beyond what is capable for a human mind to understand. By faith I believe that “the angels” will be those who have died, and have been brought back to life.
7. About Lazarus and the rich man. The bible does not say that he is in heaven. Lazarus and the rich man talked to each other, it seems more reasonable that they are both in a waiting place (Sheol).
ANSWER:
I believe Abraham spoke from Heaven.
8. One more question. Where do you think Maria and the apostles are? In Sheol waiting for the resurrection (I suppose most of them are martyrs) or in heaven?
ANSWER:
In Heaven.
It will be interesting to hear your reply.
Hi Ivar! Thank you for your answers. I have never heard this kind of teaching before so it opens up a lot of questions. I can´t find any real support of your teachings about this in the Bible. But you have the right to have your interpretation. Just a couple of few remarks.
2. That Jesus was in two places, both in Sheol preaching and in Heaven with the thief on the cross? Is nothing I can find in the bible. It says he was resurrected to earth and was with the disciples for 40 days and then went up to Heaven. And he will return the same way the Bible says. Nothing is mentioned that he had already been there before this event now remebered as (Kristi Himmelsfärdsdag).
3. Ivar wrote: “All human being will leave Sheol after three days, and face judgment.”. Question: Where can you find this in the bible?
I suppose Jewish tradition says this but it also says, as the bible, that they will be part of the resurrection!
Who are the believers who will be part of the first and second resurrection if they already are in heaven?
4. About the angels who will return with Jesus. The bible does not say that the angels are people/believers? It clearly says that they are angels. So there is no ground for this teaching. This is just one interpretation by “faith” as you said.
7. Lazarus is clearly speaking to the rich men. How could he do this from heaven and after the judgment? Is it possible to speak to someone outside heaven after the judgment? The judgment hasn´t even been according to the bible after my interpretation, since we can clearly see that the we are still waiting for the return of Jesus and the messianic kingdom who has to be before the last judgment.
8. You wrote that you believe Maria and the apostles are in heaven. I have to ask again, how could they be there before the first and second resurrection? The bible clearly says that the first resurrection will be when Jesus returns and the martyrs will be first
to raise and then the rest as Paul and John clearly teaches. ( 1 tess. 4:14-17), (Rev.20) and they will rule with Jesus in the Messianic kingdom?.
Important question: Will some of the believers that do not live fly back from heaven after they have been judged to their earthly bodies so they can be part of the resurrection and then rule with Jesus in the messianic kingdom?
It is not logical or biblical? I do not want to have a long debate over this Ivar. But as you notice your interpretation seems a little bit confusing when you compare it to the bible. If you have time, please explain yourself.
/A
Azaryahu
Shalom.
You asked:
Important question: Will some of the believers that do not live fly back from heaven after they have been judged to their earthly bodies so they can be part of the resurrection and then rule with Jesus in the messianic kingdom?
My reply:
This is a strange question since the angles to not come back into their Earthly bodies.
Your comment:
It is not logical or biblical? I do not want to have a long debate over this Ivar. But as you notice your interpretation seems a little bit confusing when you compare it to the bible. If you have time, please explain yourself.
My reply:
Since your are asking a lot of question, but do not want a long debate: I am not sure what you want. Since you also feel my replies are confusing, this way of debating is surely strange. My replies would be offensive in particular for the 7 days Adventists, who believe in soul sleep.
Lets therefor go back to the answer to your chosen topic, a debate you have found confusing:
1. Jesus was active when his body was is Sheol. He preached to the spirit in prison, he took the key to death from the devil, and He entered heaven with his own blood. All of this is biblical.
1 Peter 3:18-20
For Christ died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive by the Spirit, through whom also he went and preached to the spirits in prison
Hebrews 9:12
He did not enter by means of the blood of goats and calves; but he entered the Most Holy Place once for all by his own blood, having obtained eternal redemption.
Revelation 1:18
I am the Living One; I was dead, and behold I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades.
Ivar. I notice that you do not want to answer my questions. I meant you are free to answer those nothing else.
If you have time please answer question 2 and 3 also.
Read 1 thess. 4:14-17. Paul clearly says that the believers that are asleep will be resurrected when Jesus returns.
Rev. 20 says that the martyrs will be resurrected.
8. Who are the believers (which the bible say are asleep) that will be resurrected the day Jesus returns? Where are they know?
Once again since it is a important question. Who are the ones who will be resurrected the day Jesus returns as the bible says?
4. You say that the angels do not return to the earthly bodies. But we are talking about believers/people here, not heavenly angels?
Do you really believe that people/believers will be angels in heaven?
7. How can Lazarus speak to someone outside heaven after the judgment day? The bible clearly teaches he speaks with the rich man.
/A
Dear Azaryahu
Shalom.
The bodies are resurrected from Sheol. That is why Jesus could call Lazarus out of Sheol on the forth day.
All who have died have resurrected from Sheol, the tomb of silence. Those who believed have entered Heaven, and those who have not believed have faced judgment and been sent to Hell.
The last resurrection will be people coming back form Sheol. Just like Lazarus did. Angels will come out of Heaven, and land with Jesus on the Mount of Olives in Jerusalem.
Please do not mix up the two Lazarus’es.
You write: “The last resurrection will be people coming back form Sheol. Just like Lazarus did.”
What do you mean here: What people/believers do you refer to? Have they only been dead for three days? Please, explain yourself?
And what do you mean by angels? Do you really believe they are angels or do you believe that they are people/believers?
/A
Dear Azaryahu
Shalom.
You wrote:
What do you mean here: What people/believers do you refer to? Have they only been dead for three days?
Please, explain yourself?
My reply:
I have already explained. Jesus Him self rose from the dead in Sheol on the third day. He was the power to take people out on the forth day too. He is God. Jesus also had the Power and authority to take Elijah directly to heaven in a rapture. That will also take place when the massive rapture of believers take place.
Now its your turn to explain your self:
Are you a seven thy Adventists?
Not replying will not be an option, if you want to continue to comment on this site.
No. I´m not a seventh day adventist! And I do not understand why you do not answer the questions I asked? I will try once again.
You have the right to have what kind of interpretation you like.
And I appreciate your articles about the falsehood of the catholic church and your love for Israel. But in this area I can not find any biblical foundation for your teachings. I have showed you a couple of passages many times now. And here are my seven last questions.
You are free to answer those if you like.
1. Can you please explain who those believers are who will be resurrected? You say that the believers are in heaven after they have been in Sheol for three days. So who are the believers that will be resurrected when Jesus returns?
2. You speak about angels that will return with Jesus. Are they angels or are they people/believers? Do you believe that people will turn to angels after they have reached heaven?
3. You teach like the catholic church that you critize, that Maria and the apostles are in heaven. Can you show me a passage in the bible that supports this?
4. How can Lazarus (who is with Abraham) in heaven after the judgment talk to the rich man who is clearly not in heaven?
5. Nowhere does the bible say that the thief on the cross went directly to heaven! Jesus says that he would be in paradise the same day. And Jesus was in Sheol for three days and then resurrected, and after that he was on earth with the disciples for 40 days! And after that he went up to heaven! The bible does not mention anything else! It could be in another way but it is not mentioned, therefore we can not make theology out of it. Anything else is a interpretation.
6. Who do Paul refer to in this passage?: 1 thess. 4:13-17
He clearly say that the believer that are asleep will raise first!
Who are those believers if almost everyone are in heaven
after your interpretation?
13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which ARE ASLEEP, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also WHICH SLEEP in Jesus will God bring with him.
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which ARE ASLEEP.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
7. What kind of denomination do you belong to?
/A
If I can interject for a second, many of your questions can be answered if you find a Christian Bible Study Group. Many of your questions can also be answered by reading the Word of God.
Like for instance Question #2. Jesus clearly say he will return with angels.
Matthew 16:27 For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father’s glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what he has done.
Then there is your question who will rise first.
Jesus clearly says: 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord.
You see that the dead in Christ shall rise first.
I am curious to know what denomination are you. I attend a Pentecostal Christian Church. I believe in the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. I believe Jesus Christ comes very soon. And I believe all those who seek Jesus honestly in spirit and in truth will find him.
Are you attending a Christian Church where you can get help in studying the Word of God?
Gloria! I do not understand what you mean? Did you not read the questions? This is questions to Ivar, since he can not show any biblical foundations for some of his interpretations and teachings.
Ivar said that people/believers will be angels when they reach heaven? And I said that Jesus will return with his angels not people/believers. So my question was if he believes that people will become angels in heaven?
Please, read the questions! I clearly say that the dead in Christ shall rise first. But Ivar says that the believers are in heaven after they have been three days in Sheol? I have asked a couple of times:
Who are then the believers that will be resurrected on the day Jesus returns if almost every believer are in heaven? No real answer!
I will leave it like this. It is important to have a foundation for your teachings in the bible.
If you have studied the bible you are free to answer those seven questions.
Azaryahu
Shalom.
You seem to be a little bit slow. I understand that you promote soul sleep, and like us to believe that the “believers” sleep in their graves. And that Heaven is rather unpopulated.
I asked you a question if you are a 7 days Adventist, and there was no proper answer. In fact no reply at all.
If you do not answer, there will be no second chance to comment further on this blog.
Oh, Gloria! Sister…
Azaryahu has asked very relevant questions. And you immediately assume that he doesn’t know anything, or that he is from some deviant denomination…! Isn’t that a tad arrogant?
Please read his questions carefully, and see that they are all relevant, and based on Scripture. (Indeed, I could have asked them myself.)
The one Azaryahu that I’ve come to ‘know’ in other fora [I think you might be the same one, Az?] has always made himself known for sound judgment.
And I think that brother Ivar, by now, knows where I stand.
sincerely, Angela (Ingela) of Sweden
Dear Ingela of Sweden
Shalom, and love in Jesus.
This is a free site of expression. Those who are asked a question, should try to answer.
There are some rules and regulations on this site too:
1. Jew-hate and antisemitic slurs will quickly be banished.
2. Filthy language is not permitted.
3. Those who Insults brothers and sisters without regrets, will be told to repent.
4. Permission to publish external links from the comment field might be restricted.
5. When you are requested by the editor to answer, please do so if you would like to continue to comment on this site.
Ps. Gloria is a co-editor of this site. Kindly accept them she also controls the spam button.
Angela,
I apologize. I thought his or her questions were based on his or her trying to learn from the Word of God. But was I wrong? Earlier he stated he had alot of questions, so I just assumed he wanted knowledge of the Word of God.
FYI: It seems that Azaryahu though and I may be wrong asks his questions, in order to catch Ivar or anyone in some “mistake” in teaching the Word of God.
I have visited this website for a few years now, and Ivar is a man who knows the scriptures, and is a man that believes in Jesus Christ completely.
Dear Gloria.
Shalom.
We must accept to be questioned. I do know the scriptures, but I am also a fallible man and teacher. When I commit a mistake, my prayer is that my brothers and sisters will correct me in love.
We all commit mistakes Ivar. I for one have made many. I do enjoy discussing and learning the Word of God. And am willing to learn everyday from Jesus and those who believe in him 🙂
All good and acceptable rules, Ivar.
I just feel that you may have been communicating past each other, and that Azaryahu, in fact, has answered your questions in a clear manner.
That’s just an outsider’s observation.
Thank you, Gloria.
It IS easy to talk past each other in the blogsphere…
I don’t have the impression that Azaryahu was out to ‘catch’ Ivar at all. On the contrary he expresses apprecciation for this site, and ministry. As do myself.
However, just as I have questioned Ivar about his portrayal of ‘hell’, and I believe we came to an understanding, in the same manner we ought to be allowed to ask for clarification?
I apprecciate this ministry, and the boldness of speaking out concerning the blatant idolatry that goes on in the ‘skull and bones’ religion. If it weren’t for this site, I believe many wouldn’t have guessed just how bad it is.
So God bless you!
God Bless you as well!
Ivar,
that humble attitude goes a long way.
God bless you.
Hinn the guy is clearly one of the wolves
in sheep’s clothing that we are
warned about in:
Matthew 7:15 Beware of false
prophets, which come to you in
sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they
are ravening wolves.
Acts 20:29 For I know this, that after
my departing shall grievous wolves
enter in among you, not sparing the
flock.
If Hinn is a wolve in sheep’s clothing, what are you TIVA?
Mick
Don’t be deceive with what you heard from this man you know he teach a gospel of wealth which contradict the scripture and if you read your bible just like I do i’m quite sure you will discern and test the spirit
Many thanks for this revealing article. I have translated it into Danish and published it.
Reblogged this on YHWH Is One .