To follow Jesus is all about repentance and obedience. An infant can not do that.
One of the biggest arguments within Christianity is linked to baptism. I know that my Catholic friends will reject todays messages, and my Lutheran family will be offended. But I have to tell the truth, and will say as Paul:
2 Corinthians 7:8
«Even if I caused you sorrow by my letter, I do not regret it. Though I did regret it. I see that my letter hurt you, but only for a little while»
The issue of baptism is expressed many places in the New Testament. Like in this message from Peter:
«Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit».
Now, an infant could not have received this message. But still many Christians wants to believe than an infant can be saved by a religious ritual, and be added to the true Church.
If the infant ends up like the devil of the town later in life, neither will his parents nor the Church be willing to take the blame for their faulty teaching.
How could this Child of God, who excepted Christ as an infant, walk away from such a wonderful and obvious message of salvation?
Jesus challenged the teachers of the laws of his day, and I will do the same:
«John’s baptism, where did it come from? Was it from heaven, or from men?»
Now, a Catholic and a religious Lutheran will answer that it was from God, but God changed his mind. Because unlike John, who demanded fruit of repentance before he baptized people, and that obviously pleased God, the Catholics and religious Lutherans do not demand such fruits.
Jesus first refused to answer the teacher of the law, and let the truth pending for some time. But in the Gospel according to Luke, we get the message straight:
«But the Pharisees and experts in the law rejected God’s purpose for themselves, because they had not been baptized by John».
The life of Jesus him self testify against baptism of infants. Simply because God never told his Jewish mother to baptize her firstborn. God would have done this, if He wanted to give an indisputable acknowledgment of baptism of infants, and instructed parents to do so forever after.
Finally, comes the instruction from Jesus Him self:
«We can,” they answered. Jesus said to them, “You will drink the cup I drink and be baptized with the baptism I am baptized with».
There was no time for the repenting thief on the cross to get baptized. But there is time for you.
It is not my job to tell you what kind of consequences you will face, if you disobey your master in Baptism. Because I am not sure. But if you want to be sure that you have copied Him also in your baptism, go to the river today and do it.
Wow…Very beautifully presented..As you said, its the most debated topic in christianity…Very few people understand the true meaning of Baptism…I’m happy that God led me to the truth 3 years ago…May God Bless You…
Shalom. Thanks for this comment. May you rejoice in your persecution, that will follow you telling others the truth in Jesus the Messiah.
Indeed, very very few people understand the meaning of baptism….as a sign in the gospel for the CIRCUMCISSION (Israel). In the Bible you can only read of jews baptising jews. This whole baptising thing is a very big issue for RELIGIOUS people, who focus on outer traditions rather than inner truths.
For ‘There is just ONE Lord, ONE Faith, ONE baptism” Ephesians 4:5
“For we were all baptized by ONE SPIRIT so as to form one body..” (1Corinthians 12:13)
Ergo, you do not have to be baptised, you ARE ALLREADY baptised.
Do we read ‘water’ ? No, no signs of ‘swimming pools’ or ‘ rivers’ or hot tubs in church either. No such thing at all > JUST the Holy spirit. WOW.
Which makes completely sense since God is not depending on human beings, their acts or their natural surroundings.
That must be comforting for those people coming to Jesus Christ while dying in the desert without a sip of water!
Well said Ivor,
Sadly many modern pharisees reject this, even in Pentecostal/Charismatic some teach baptism is not needed for salvation, but like you say without baptism we cannot see the kingdom of heaven. The message is the same today as then.
I dont think Ivar meant that the physical immersion is part of salvation. It isnt anyway. If a beliver does not get baptized, it disobedience and yes sin, but it will not prevent them from entering heaven. For we are saved by grace through faith in Jesus Christ our Lord. The immersion is a public display of our decision, and in obedince to God’s Word, but not a requirement of salvation itself.
Ivar? What did you mean?
Shalom, and love in Jesus.
Since the thief on the cross was not baptized, we can not claim that baptism is a requirement for salvation. After I was saved by Jesus, I was unsure if my infant “baptism” was suffient to be called baptism.
10 months passed before I asked a pastor to baptize me. I came to the conclusion, that I should go to the river and be baptized the way Jesus the Messiah was baptized.
I am very sure, that Jesus would not have sent me to hell, if I had died before I reached the water.
Because Jesus the Messiah has called us to do so. It is an act of obedience, which gives us good concious in our relatiosnhip with Him. That the thief on the cross was not baptized, is no excuse for me. I am not hanging there.
I feel all who cling to the Roman Catholic doctrine of Infant baptism, loose out on heavenly blessings. As an example: I see many saved Lutherans struggle to identify their promised gift of the holy spirit, and their calling is not confirmed. They might not loose their salvation. But I will not issue any guarantee.
The Baptist doctrine of baptism with full emersion, based on a confession of faith, can never be wrong. I will advice all believers to go to the river.
‘without baptism we cannot see the kingdom of heaven’
Poor Joseph, Moses, David, and especially all the people Paul spoke to and who stoppped baptising because he was very convinced not be sent to baptize but to tell the gospel.1Kor1:17
Which baptism is the best you think? John’s, with water? Or that by the holy ghost of God, by fire?
I baptize you with water, BUT he will baptize you with the Holy Spirit!” (Marc 1:8)
“John said, “I am just baptizing with water. But someone more powerful is going to come, and I am not good enough even to untie his sandals.
x 3.16 untie his sandals: This was the duty of a slave.
He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire.”(Luke 3:16)
“I baptize you with water so that you will give up your sins so that you will give up your sins: Or “because you have given up your sins.”
But someone more powerful is going to come, and I am not good enough even to carry his sandals: This was one of the duties of a slave.
He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire” (Matt3:11)
“I remembered that the Lord had said, “John baptized with water, BUT YOU will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.” Act11:16
So what’s the best? Water or fire?
Outer religion, or inner truth?
Im a bit confused about what you are trying to say. Do you believe water immersion is essential for salvation? Or do you mean the indwelling of the Holy Spirit is more important?
Scripture clearly states that salvation is only based on the acceptance that Jesus is who he says he is: the Son of God and Lord and Saviour.
Water immersion is an obedince and not essential for salvation.
The indwelling of the Holy Spirit became possible after Jesus left for heaven and then send the HS as the Comforter. So all who accept Jesus receive the Holy Spirit and can be led by Him.
Yeshua(Jesus) was baptized with both Water and Fire,
Now baptism is not forced on anyone but it’s a choice. So when you start to understand the true God(YHVH) you automatically surrender your life to God(YHVH)that’s when you desire to be ‘baptized’ and once you are baptized the ‘Spirit of God’ descends and starts working in your life to draw you nearer to Him.
To answer your question: So what’s the best? Water or fire? Outer religion, or inner truth?
I would say:
Water, Fire – Definitely.
Outer religion – No.
Inner truth – Depends upon what your beliefs are based on. If it’s connected to the true God(YHVH)
Inner truth can also include other spiritualism like ‘yoga’ that leads one into the astral world, a world of emptiness. Can also include other influences be it of the world or the dark world – So BEWARE!!
But don’t you know Ivar (being ironic here!) that [at least parts of] the Roman-Catholic Church teaches that when the soldier beneath the cross (allegedly called Longinus) rammed his spear into the side of Yeshua, and water and blood came out, some of this water splattered over on the thief on Yeshua’s side – «and then [Jesus] spoke the words of baptismal regeneration»…
Dear Lars-Toralf Utnes Storstrand
Shalom, and love in Jesus.
Half of my family are Roman Catholics. Most of the other half, are apostate Lutherans. Supposed to have been baptized in their infancy. All of them have one thing in common. They do not even recall their “Baptism”. They were infants, absolutely not aware of what might have taken place in front of a priest, without their approval.
I was “Christened” as an infant myself, but the reason was that my mother when ten or eleven experienced strenuous harassment for not being baptized (her family were non-practising Adventists during the Great Depression). Thus she decided to “christen” us (me and my brother) when (shortly after) we were born.
I however, was baptized about five years after I was born again, 10.may 1989, at Skostredet 17 in Bergen. In the same baptismal basin as Marie Monsen.
I’ve never regretting deciding to proclaim Yeshua to the world by getting baptized.
My son, 18, was (according to his mother’s wishes) was “christened” at a “bedehus” in Norway, by a preacher, not a priest. My stepson, 18, was “christened” in the Ukraine, in a Russian Orthodox setting. But my two youngest, 2, and 5, are not.
When I was about 1 and 1/2 years my mom took to be baptized at her Episcopal Church. As I was sprinkled by the minister, my response was stunning. I responded by knocking the dish of water out of the minister’s hand. Grandma gasped, mama quivered and cried Oh No!
I was normally a very sweet kit but “something got a hold of me”. I was probably saying I will not be an Episcopal!!!! At 13 years I truly repented and was truly baptized! Now, “God has certainly got a hold of me.
God Bless you Jim.
The subject of child baptism makes me wonder. Jesus said I chose you and we believe we are saved by faith, which is a gift. If Jewish children are circumcised then why can’t Christian children be baptized? Jesus also said suffer not the children to come to Him. Also, bring up a child in the Lord and he/she will not depart. We know for a fact that Jacob was chosen before he was born over Esau and God loved Jacob and hated Esau before either was even born! The jailer’s whole house was baptized and he didn’t have children? As for me and my house we will serve the LORD and was it not the father’s decision? Finally, who says Christ rejects any child brought to Him that is baptized in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit? Show me the chapter and verse or be silent! AMEN.
Shalom, and love in Jesus.
If Jewish children are circumcised then why can’t Christian children be baptized?
It is not correct to say that “Jewish children are circumcised”. Only Jewish boys are. And not being circumcised, do not exclude females from being Jewish. Second: Being circumcised is not a requirement for salvation, nor does it bring salvation. The most criminal Jew will be circumcised, but might anyhow end up in Hell.
So comparing being circumcised with being baptized is comparing two totally different acts of faith. In baptism, you given an oat to Jesus to become His follower. You can still fail. But, He will never fail you.
It is a Roman-Catholic Erroneous doctrine, being adopted by most protestants that “christening” has replaced “circumcision”. This is a blatant lie.
Even the people of Israel were baptized through the Red Sea, after leaving Egypt (Rav Sha’ul says so!).
The Scriptural way of water baptism is in the Name of the Lord Jesus Christ, which is found in Acts 2:38 and the rest of the Bible.
And many peoples today, nearly all the churches, they baptize the people in the name of the Father, in the name of the Son, and in the name of the Holy Ghost.
Jesus said in Matthew 28:19, “Go ye therefore, teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost…”
Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, that’s titles, not a name.
The Name of the Father, Son, Holy Ghost is the Lord Jesus Christ.
You say: Well, I don’t care what the apostles done, Jesus said this.”
If the apostles disobeyed Him, then the Scriptures are wrong. But the Scripture is perfect. Every Word is right or none of It is right. There’s not a contradiction in the Scriptures.
Every person in the New Testament Church was baptized in the Name of the Lord Jesus Christ. Not one person in the Bible was ever baptized in the titles of Father, Son, Holy Ghost. That never did come into existence until the Nicaea creed at Rome. It was an order of the Catholic church,
The Catholic church started that, and the rest of them come to it. And any minister knows that’s the truth. But for popularity, to hold his position, he compromises.
Paul said in Galatians 8:1, “If even an Angel comes from heaven and preaches another Gospel unto you, let him be cursed.”
And he commanded those people who’d been baptized wrongly to come and be rebaptized again in the Name of Jesus Christ, in Acts 19.
Now, it’s up to you.
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost; Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Matt. 28:19-20. Still nobody has shown me this excludes children by the Scriptures. We know that many were added to the Church and were baptized after just a short explanation of the Gospel…surely those individuals all needed further teaching afterwards.
The instructions to baptize in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost are easy to understand. These instructions in Matthew 28:19 are from the oldest Greek manuscripts and have been followed by the early Christian Church long before 600 A.D. AMEN.
You forget one vital thing. Matthew (at least) was written in Hebrew. Whether it was later translated directly into Greek or via Aramaic, is and remains an unanswered question, though I believe in the road via Aramaic, myself.
Any form of translation weaken the text. (and btw: I am a professional translator).
Every example in scripture is a person who understood who Jesus was and made a conscience decision to believe and get baptized. A small child or infant can not make this decision.
Someone mentioned that the guard’s whole family got baptized, then asked if he had children. We do not know how old his children were. If they were all baptized, then by evidence of all other scripture, they were old enough to CHOSE and make conscience decision.
Does this answer your question?
If anyone would like an early Christian viewpoint on this subject they ought to read Augustine, Book III “On the Merits and Forgiveness of Sins, and on the Baptism of Infants”. Sometimes I am amazed at the junk found written on this site. May we make no decision unless based on the Scripture and sound doctrine. Satan is famous for giving a little Scripture and twisting it to his end to mislead and kill. Wake up and do a little digging for yourself and don’t be spoon-fed by the devil. AMEN
Read Augustine for a “Christian” viewpoint? Sorry that I am laughing. But that is crazy. Augustine was hardly a “Christian” himself, but a doctrinal hypocrite of size.
May I ask a question? Do you baptised in the Name of the Lord Jesus Christ? Have you been baptised in many water in the Name of the Lord Jesus Christ as peter recommended?
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Shalom, and love in Jesus.
Before I baptize anyone, I explain the gospel. About God of Israel, and His Son. How the Father, the Son and The Holy Spirit are always in agreement. One God. Three in One. Than I look for fruits of repentance, and baptize people based on their statement of faith. Their promise to make Jesus Lord and God. I baptize them with full immersion in water. In the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Just as the Bible explains, the disciples of Jesus should act.
Nobody was ever baptized in the name of “Father, Son, Holy Ghost,” in the Bible. There never was such a ceremony ever until the Catholic church.
The Catholic church is the mother of that: The mother of harlots.
Every person that’s baptized in the name of Father, Son, Holy Ghost is actually baptized in the Catholic faith.
I challenge any minister, any bishop, anybody, anywhere, anytime to come and show me one Scripture where one person was ever baptized in the Name of the Father, Son, Holy Ghost.
The Bible is open before me. It’s not in the Scriptures.
It’s a false man-made creed started by the Catholic church.
Come out of her my People, saith the LORD.
Shalom, and love in Jesus.
Nobody was ever baptized in the name of “Father, Son, Holy Ghost,” in the Bible.
You are rejecting the very call to baptize by Jesus the Messiah him self. And he was surely not a Roman Catholic.
Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptising them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.
(end of scripture).
There is a lot of rubbish in the so-called Pentecostal Holiness movement, and cults like “Jesus only”. If you are members of such cults, please repent. And do as Jesus has told us to do.
I was baptized in the name of Father, Son and Holy Ghost. I have renounced baptism (infant) and any connection with harlot. Lord took me out. Bless His Holy Name. Its nothing wrong with that. I will not repent 4 that.
I give you one example here:
Whenever a teacher would give the problem and ask, “How much is three times three?”, the pupil would not answer, “Three times three is three times three”, he would have to give the answer— the result of the problem.
It is not comprehensive how the majority of theologians repeat Mt. 28: 19 like a magic formula without knowing the result of the very commission we are to carry out. Peter, Paul and all the apostles and the men of God in the first centuries knew the solution —- the name. They knew what that name was and used it.
The disciples carried out the commission one-hundred percent
according to the expressed desire of their Master when they baptised in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ.
Whoever does not baptise that way has not recognised the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost, in which we are to be baptised into.
“Behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name.”
Please, my people, do not deny my Name and be rebaptized in the Name of the LORD Jesus Christ, saith the LORD Almighty and I will receive you and you shall be my sons and my daughters.
Thank you for replying. But I have one more question?
It is true that the Lord said “Matthew 28:19
Therefore go and make disciples of
all nations, baptising them in the
name of the Father and of the Son
and of the Holy Spirit.”
But why did peter, paul and the others never used the Name of Father, son and Holy spirit as formula while they were baptising people? Did peter who received the keys “Matthew 16:19
19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. ”
Disobeyed to the order given by His Master? Did Paul who saw Jesus our Lord Himself in the pillar of fire disobeyed the mission order given in Matthiew 28:19? Did all the disciples disobeyed to do so? Could you please tell me?
And also can you please tell me the Name of God that Jesus our Lord made known to His disciples? According to “john 17-6 I have revealed Your name to the men
You gave Me from the world. They were
Yours, You gave them to Me, and they
have kept Your word.”
If Augustine is not a Christian then you certainly are not one yourself. Anyone with the Spirit of Christ can discern from his writings he was a Christian without doubt. He confessed Jesus Christ as LORD and Savior and understood the Election of all saints by the Father given to the Son. He also understood the need to baptize in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit quoting the Scriptures you think you know for reproof, correction, and doctrine. You need to study some more before you insert your foot in mouth. AMEN.