Bible Lesson # 12: The two women in the Book of Revelation

The Pope claims the women in the book of Revelation chapter 12 is Catholic Mary. That is wrong. That woman is the Jewish nation, who birthed the 12 tribes of Israel. Catholic Mary is found in chapter 17.

Isis and Catholic Mary. One and the same. Copy-cats of the truth.
Isis and Catholic Mary. One and the same. Copy-cats of the truth.

Its always interesting to debate with Catholics who read scriptures out of context, or twist them to promote paganism. One of the common misunderstandings within the Catholic religion, is the use of the book of Revelation chapter 12. The Pope in Rome claim that the woman with the 12 stars are «Catholic Mary».

The truth is, that the Jewish Apostle saw a vision of the first Jewish nation, who gave birth to the 12 tribes of Israel. The Jewish nation later gives birth to the Messiah. A Torah observant Jewish virgin is chosen by God to raise Him in the Jewish faith. The Messiah will later pay for the sins of the whole World on the cross in Jerusalem.

The Jewish Apostle gets a vision of the pain and agony the Jewish people will have to go through, before their redemption at the end of time. That is the day of the return of the Messiah.

Revelation 12:1

«A great and wondrous sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head».

The vision the Jewish Apostle John saw, was the same as the dream that God of the Bible gave Joseph, the son of Jacob, the father of the tribes. Jacob was the first man to be named Israel by God.

Joseph see his 11 brothers as stars, bowing down to Him, he him self being the 12th star.

Genesis 37:9

«Then he had another dream, and he told it to his brothers. “Listen,” he said, “I had another dream, and this time the sun and moon and eleven stars were bowing down to me».

Badly enough for the believers in the Roman Catholic Religion, their Catholic Mary is mentioned in Chapter 17 in the book of Revelation.

Catholic Mary presented as the Queen of Heaven

Revelation 17:1 onwards

«One of the seven angels who had the seven bowls came and said to me,”Come, I will show you the punishment of the great prostitute, who sits on many waters. With her the kings of the earth committed adultery and the inhabitants of the earth were intoxicated with the wine of her adulteries».

«Then the angel carried me away in the Spirit into a desert. There I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast that was covered with blasphemous names and had seven heads and ten horns. The woman was dressed in purple and scarlet, and was glittering with gold, precious stones and pearls. She held a golden cup in her hand, filled with abominable things and the filth of her adulteries. This title was written on her forehead»:


(end of scripture)

The Catholic Mary is not whom the Pope claims her to be. She is just a renamed version of the goddess «Semiramis from Babylon, a prostitute. The pagans called her «The Mother of gods». She has many sisters. One of them is the pagan goddess Isis in Egypt, whom also carries a copy-cat savior on her lap. Catholic Mary is named by the Catholics as «The Mother of God». Doing this, without giving the grand mother of God any credit.

Not so strangely, Catholic Mary have been given 6.000 different titles by the Catholic Church, and this «lady» fits perfectly into the picture of being the mother of harlots.

Catholic children adoring and venerating the great prostitute, deceived by their own partents.
Catholic children adoring and venerating the great prostitute, deceived by their own parents and priests.

To give you and example, here is the list with names of Catholic Schools in New York state, US, with different version of name of harlots, witch supposedly have the same mother.

Our Lady of Angels School, Bayridge Brooklyn
Our Lady of Guadalupe School, Brooklyn
Our Lady of Lourdes, Queens Village
Our Lady of Lourdes High School, Poughkeepsie
Our Lady of Lords, Malverne
Our Lady of Mercy Academy, Syosset
Our Lady of Mercy School, Hicksville
Our Lady of Mercy High School, Rochester
Our Lady of the Hamptons School, Southampton
Our Lady of the Miraculous Medal School, Ridgewood
Our Lady of Miracles School, Brooklyn
Our Lady of the Sacred Heart, Buffalo
Our Lady of Peace School, Lynbrook
Our Lady of Perpetual Help School, Lindenhurst
Our Lady of Perpetual Help School, Ozone Park
Our Lady of Pompeii School, Manhattan
Our Lady Of Sorrows-Seton Campus, Endicott
Our Lady of Victory School, Lackawanna
Our Lady of Victory School, Troy

140 thoughts on “Bible Lesson # 12: The two women in the Book of Revelation

  1. I try to stay away from you but this is going too far. Take the Catholic/Protestant/or whatever you are out of it and think a minute.

    Jesus loved His mother. Jesus still loves His mother and Jesus make no doubt somewhere in His life honored her. He did at the wedding at Cana. She was the one who taught Him right from wrong and everything about the Jewish religion. As it was the mother who was responsible for that. In that I can only think how well He was taught as He was so obedient on the Day of the Cross to God.

    You have called her a “whore.” The mother of Jesus Himself. She is the mother of the King of Kings, which makes her if you believe He is King, the Queen Mother. If He loved and honored her, which He did, so can we. Anything Jesus did such as this, we can also. She is in heaven right now with Him. How do you think you just made Him feel?

    She is not a Catholic Mary nor a Protestant Mary she is Mary the mother of Jesus, who the Holy Spirit impregnated, and whom God Himself chose as a vessel to come to earth and dwell within her womb for nine months. Man God, Jesus, is the Son of God and Mary. Would not you think there is something a little special about her?

    You know you warned me one time, and I am not warning you, but I pray God has mercy on you. Are there no lengths you will not go to just because you hate the Church? Jesus loved her and loves her. All I am asking you to do is think about that.

    If you love Jesus at all, think about Him looking down at His mother on the Cross. Think about His blood probably hitting her on the face, as she looked at her Son. Think about what both of them and our Father went through on that day. I am not asking this for the Church, but please show just a little respect for that if nothing else. You must have a mother how do you think she would have felt if it were you on that day. Watching her son get whipped, beaten, nails in your hands and feet, thorns in your head. Would not you look at your mother and almost die for what she was going through also. Would you not love and honor her for that if you could? Jesus did. If I knew your mother and you were the one on the Cross would you not look at me and say, “Please love and take care of her. Never forget what she has been through on this day.” Would you not do that for your own mother? Wouldn’t you want me to show her kindess and love?

    Anyone who loves Jesus and does not love His Father and does not love His mother is not a part of Jesus, because He did. This has truly brought me to tears, as I know how you have just hurt them. This causes me such anquish in my soul.

    I do not care if you approve this or not, as this is so horrible to me, I had just as soon it not be in my comments. I am just talking to you like a friend. Sandy

    1. Dear Sandra.

      Good to have you back on this site:

      You wrote:

      You have called her a “whore.” The mother of Jesus Himself.

      My comment:

      Absolutely not. You do not want to listen, and you do not want to understand. My point is that Catholic Mary, whom ever she is, is not the mother of Jesus. She is a pagan copy-cat that makes the sinners who adore, venerate or worship her liars in the eyes of God of the Bible. Liars who, if they do not repent, will not be able to make it into the Kingdom of Heaven.

      If you follow the Bible School on this site, you will see that I have made a strong case for the mother of Jesus. She was a Jewish Torah observant virgin who gave birth to the Messiah. Later she had many children, a sinner who was saved by her Son, and joined the believers.

      The Jewish mother of Jesus was surely not a harlot, but a woman who found favor with God. Blessed among women. I deeply respect her, teach correctly about her, and give thanks to God my Father for all He did using her.

      1. Dear James.

        Shalom, and love in Jesus.

        Thanks for blessing me. This kind of messages, will keep me blogging.

      2. Sometimes I need the encouragement too. It can be hard on true believers trying to spread the truth. Love ya brother and keep on blogging for sure.

    2. Dear Sandy,

      I am sad to say that you have completely misunderstood the history that you read. Christians love Mary as well and yes she was the mother of Jesus and yes we should honor her but she is not a Goddess or a God. God is your almighty Father in Heaven, Jesus Christ is his son who hung on the cross and was resurrected the only man ever resurrected and upon his leaving to prepare a place for the believer he left us the HOLY Spirit which is Jesus living within us if we ask him into our hearts to help us understand the truth from the lies we have been told by our deceived ancestors because of the Catholic church.

      Don’t you see, Jesus is the resurrected one not Mary. Mary was a humble servant of God whom bore Jesus until he returned to his father in heaven, he said he would go to prepare a place for us. Mary was just a vessel at that time for Christ to be born thru to fulfill his mission as the Jewish and Gentile Messiah.

      The Catholic Church puts Mary above the God Head and this goes against the word of God and pushes Jesus into the foreground. Jesus said, I am the truth the way and the life and only through me shall you come unto the Father. In the Book of Matthew which was foretold to happen from the old testament.

      I am a Catholic too but in my two year investigation of the Catholic Church and the whole Catechism and in comparing it to the holy bible it becomes a curse because of the things that have been taken away and added to the Holy Bible. There is a warning in the book of revelations at the end of the book of Revelations. A warning: Anyone to takes away or adds anything to the holy bible will have a curse upon him and his people. The Catholic Church has been disobedient to God in ignorance of the Holy Bible.

      In regards to Mary she said this in the Magnificat “look it up.” if you don’t believe me

      My soul magnifies the Lord,
      And my spirit rejoices in God my Savior.
      For He has regarded the low estate of His handmaiden,
      For behold, henceforth all generations shall call me blessed.
      For He who is mighty has done great things for me, and holy is His name. And His mercy is on those who fear Him from generation to generation.
      He has shown strength with His arm:
      He has scattered the proud in the imagination of their hearts.
      He has put down the mighty from their thrones,
      and exalted those of low degree.
      He has filled the hungry with good things;
      and the rich He has sent empty away.
      He has helped His servant Israel, in remembrance of His mercy;
      As He spoke to our fathers, to Abraham and to His posterity forever.

      Glory be to the Father and to the Son and to the Holy Spirit.

      Mary says herself my dear lady that she is but a humble handmaiden not a Goddess. The real Mary would never call herself a goddess nor depict herself the way the Catholic apparitions have…NEVER! This is Satans trickery and deception.


      May God guide you to study the word of God with deciples that understand the whole word of God. YOu will not find such individual in the Catholic hierarchy They have been deceived with man made traditions and must turn back to the Father, Son and the Holy Spirit for Spiritual Guidance to be saved.

      Praise be to God the Father, his precious son Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit.
      And thank you Mary the humble servant of God who bore Jesus Christ who rests until the first resurrection after Christ Returns with the rest of the believers in Christ.

      My name is Susan and I am a believer in the whole inspired word of God…THE HOLY BIBLE which teaches us the truth about the Gospels and keeps us on the straight and narrow path to our Heavenly Father.

      1. The Catholic Church does NOT ay that Mary was Resurrected…Resurrection was done by Christ alone as he was able to do the act Himself, due to the fact that he was God. Mary was Assumed into Heaven, who else is “the woman” in Revelation? Mary had NO other children…if she did, then as a woman of her times, she would have been cared for by her other son’s..But no, John was given her his mother. We can also assume from this that Joseph has died. “Brother’s and sister’s and Brethren are used throughout the Bible.
        Jews especially Orthodox Jews are VERY particular with naming their children. You will not see “junior’s or any other suffix for men or woman. Look at what happened when Zachariah announced that his son would be named “John”? The people questioned that “none of your ancestor”s have this name. Jews generally name their children after a deceased family member or at least similar to it in the case of girls. Why then in John 19:25-27 It states the fact of Mary being put in the care of John? The fact that in John19:25 It states that “Standing by the cross of Jesus were his mother Mary, and her sister, Mary the wife of Clopas. No Orthodox Jewish family would have two daughters named “Mary” My husband calls me his “closet Jew” because I went to school with several Orthodox Jews..they would go to kibbutz’s over the summer, go to Sh abbot Friday’s at sunset and remained resting for the Sabbath…no driving, no working etc. I have also studied Judaism and know this could and would not have occurred.

    3. I am a Catholic,and we have been told many thinjs that are not true.This one is the “gateway” “drug” that leads to further error.There is only one God,one Lord,one Savior.Mary has been given all of his titles.That is blasphemy.

  2. Dear Ivarfjeld,

    I read some of the things you write and find some very imformative. I will not say I do not. Like I said on this, to me she is not Catholic or Protestant. She is Mary the mother of Jesus and I love her and honor her because her Son did and does.
    I love her Son also more than my life, and there is someting inside of me that when I feel He is hurt, my soul just cries. I cannot help that.

    As far as understanding I understand the love of Jesus and that is what matters to me.

    I have to ask you this question. Where do you get she had many children? I have never found one thing which said she had other children?

    As far as Jesus using the word “brothers” you know as well as I do I am sure this was a word used over and over in the Bible for those who were truly of no blood relation. Jesus called the Apostles His brothers. I think in Acts I will check it out later if I am wrong will correct but Peter called 120 people his brothers. I know Peter did not have 120 brothers. I truly want to know where you get this.

    Take care and I truly did not want to offend you in any way. This just hurt me because of the Day of the Cross. Sandy

    1. Dear Sandy.

      I have made my case in the articles about Mary, the Mother of Jesus. I feel I do not need to repeat my self. That the Catholic Church has denied Mary the mother of Jesus her Jewishness and her humanity, is a crime against her legacy. Rome has made her a goddess and an idol, an insult to the Jewish people.

      She was a family woman, and enjoyed with her husband. Also a sexual life, that resulted in a big and blessed family. The Papal claim that Jesus was a loner, is a lie. He was the firstborn of Mary, and after him came the second, third and so on.

      Dearest sister. Keep on loving the Son of God, who died for your sins. Pray to your Father in Heaven in His name, and only in His name. When you confess with your lips and believe in your Heart, that Jesus the Messiah has risen from the death, you shall be saved. Amen.

      1. The crime you refer to is imagined. We never deny Mary her humanity. A divine being cannot bear human children. Jesus was 100% human. We do not claim Mary to be divine. That’s blasphemy and heresy. She took care of Joseph and his children dutifully, but she was a consecrated virgin, and knew no man.

        To honor Mary is to honor her son. Jesus.

        I think your claim that we give too much attention to Mary is vacuous. How much attention is enough, to you? Is it ‘good enough’ that we sing Silent Night every year and ignore her the rest of the year? Catholics don’t think so. God told us, in the commandments to honor our mother and father. Jesus followed the commandments perfectly. He honored his mother. We follow his example and honor her as well.

      2. Dear David.

        Your comment:

        She took care of Joseph and his children dutifully, but she was a consecrated virgin, and knew no man.

        My question: ?????

      3. Ivar, the Protoevangelium of James is pretty clear. I know you’re going to tell me that it’s not scripture, but it is highly regarded as nearly canonical. From this we know of Mary’s early childhood and the circumstances of her birth and consecration. This proves Mary’s perpetual virginity long before there was a Roman Canon. This was the belief of the Church before the dogma was ever declared.

      4. Dear David.

        From the day God spoke to his elect, Satan started to speak to his children. The devil has produced many books. I am sorry to say, that you are lost in the jungle with the serpent. Make a U-turn, and go back to the Church you left. Than ask the Holy Spirit to remove the spiritual blindness that have lead you astray.

      5. See how well I called it? This book has been held in very high regard, and was one of the last to be excluded from the Canon. It is considered historical, and has been since the time of its writing.

        I asked you a question which you didn’t answer.

        What is your authority to declare these things???

      6. Dear David.

        Please bear with me for rebuking you for your own good.

        You ask by «which authority I declare these things»

        Let me again quote scriptures in context to our debate:

        Gal: 1:1

        «Paul, an apostle—sent not from men nor by man, but by Jesus Christ and God the Father, who raised him from the dead».

      7. Ah, but your interpretation has no authority. You are applying your interpretation to Sacred Scripture. I am not giving my interpretation, but the interpretation of the Catholic Church, which is, by definition, the interpretation of the apostles, popes, and Early Church Fathers guided by the Holy Spirit. We know this is the correct interpretation because it is the interpretation that was passed down through the traditional teachings of the apostles.

        “For, after the ascension of the Lord, the apostles handed on to their hearers what he had said and done, but with that fuller understanding which they, instructed by the glorious events of Christ and enlightened by the Spirit of truth, now enjoyed.”

        John 2:22; 12:16; 16:12-13; 7:39, 14:26

  3. So be it, but I still want to know where you read she had other children, if nothing else I am curious. You keep on loving God also and His Son who died for your sins. Take care Sandy

    1. Dear Sandy.

      The key is to do a study of the Biblical word: «firstborn», and read the firstborn of Mary correctly. There are several example in the Old Testament of the correct Jewish use of this word, an expressing of at least two siblings.

      Here is one example.

      Genesis 43:33 (NIV)
      The men had been seated before him in the order of their ages, from the firstborn to the youngest; and they looked at each other in astonishment.

      Genesis 43:33 (New King James).

      And they sat before him, the firstborn according to his birthright and the youngest according to his youth; and the men looked in astonishment at one another.

      The concept of being the firstborn is clearly separated from the concept of being the Only child.

      Luke 9:38 (Both NIV and New King James)
      A man in the crowd called out, “Teacher, I beg you to look at my son, for he is my only child.

      The Gospel writers wrote about this only Child, as also Isaac being the only child of Abraham. Even though Isaac had a half brother.

      Genesis 22:2
      Then God said, “Take your son, your only son, Isaac, whom you love, and go to the region of Moriah. Sacrifice him there as a burnt offering on one of the mountains I will tell you about.”

      Hebrews 11:17
      By faith Abraham, when God tested him, offered Isaac as a sacrifice. He who had received the promises was about to sacrifice his one and only son,

      Jesus was no the only child. He was the firstborn of Mary.

      In the first chapter for the letter to the Hebrews, there is a concept of Jesus being the firstborn of God. That is another issue. It can best be explained by reading Genesis chapter one: God said: «Let us make man in our image». The word «us». is an expression of God the Father not being alone «up there», before the creation. Jesus the Son is also the Alpha and Omega, the creator. Not a created being. Also explained in John chapter one. The Word (Jesus) is God.


  4. Ivarfjeld,

    I did a study on the firstborn. This is what I learned that in the terms of the Bible and in those days the word firstborn meant “the one who opens the womb” and had nothing to do with if there were other siblings or not. The Strongs explains it as this, number 1069 “to burst the womb.” “bear or make early fruit of woman or tree” also from 1061 to give birthright make firstborn be firstling bring forth first child. (This is Hebrew translation)

    Jesus was the “firstborn” of Mary opening her womb. I did a study on Jerusalem for three years as some of these terms I had to understand, in order to understand the Bible and what it meant.

    So just sharing what I learned. Sandy

  5. Shalom Ivar, Following your correspondence with Sandy, I may point to Matthew 1:25,Key word “until” – NIV Bible or Keyword “before” – Good News New Testament. Perhaps it may throw some light on the matter.

    1. Ozzy.

      Let me quote the Jewish Bible, online, who quote what everybody knows is a fact in a husband and wife relationship.

      Matthew: 1:25: but he did not have sexual relations with her until she had given birth to a son, and he named him Yeshua.

      To deny this Jewish married couple a natural sexual relationship, have no base in Biblical truths.

  6. “And a great portent appeared in heaven, a Woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars; she was with child and she cried out in her pangs of birth, in anguish for delivery. . . . [S]he brought forth a male child, one who is to rule all the nations with a rod of iron, but her child was caught up to God and to his throne. . . . Then the dragon was angry with the Woman, and went off to make war on the rest of her offspring, on those who keep the commandments of God and bear testimony to Jesus” (Rev. 12:1–2, 5, 17).

    There is a lot of debate about what the symbol of this Woman represents. Different.aspects of the symbol point to different possible meanings for it.

    Unfortunately, most of the debate over what the Woman represents is misdirected because it does not take into account the way that Revelation uses symbolism.

    The vision contains “fusion imagery,” in which one symbol is composed of elements from several different things. For example, the four living creatures John sees around God’s throne (4:6–8) are a fusion of elements from the cherubim seen in Ezekiel (Ezek. 10:1–14) and the seraphim seen in Isaiah (Isa. 6:1–5).

    Similarly, the priest-elders John sees around the throne (4:4) are numbered twenty-four because they are a fusion of the twelve patriarchs of Israel and the twelve apostles of Jesus, a symbolism which occurs at the end of the book (21:12–14), where New Jerusalem is seen to have twelve foundations with the names of the twelve apostles and twelve gates with the names of the twelve patriarchs.

    The beast from the sea in chapter 13 is a fusion of elements from the all four of the beasts the prophet Daniel saw emerge from the sea in chapter 7 of his book.

    Polyvalent symbolism, in which symbols have more than one meaning, also is part of Revelation’s imagery. For example, the seven heads of the beast are said to be both seven mountains (Rev. 17:9) and seven kings (17:10).

    The Woman in Revelation 12 is part of the fusion imagery/polyvalent symbolism that is found in the book. She has four referents: Israel, the Church, Eve, and Mary.

    She is Israel because she is associated with the sun, the moon, and twelve stars. These symbols are drawn from Genesis 37:9–11, in which the patriarch Joseph has a dream of the sun and moon (symbolizing his father and mother) and stars (representing his brothers), which bow down to him. Taken together, the sun, moon, and twelve stars symbolize the people of Israel.

    The Woman is the Church because, as 12:17 tells us, “the rest of her offspring” are those who bear witness to Jesus, making them Christians.

    The Woman is Eve because she is part of the three-way conflict also involving her Seed and the Dragon, who is identified with the ancient serpent (the one from Eden) in 20:2. This mirrors the conflict in Genesis 3:15 between Eve, the serpent, and her unborn seed—which in turn is a symbol of the conflict between Mary, Satan, and Jesus.

    Finally, the Woman is Mary because she is the mother of Jesus, the child who will rule the nations with a rod of iron (19:11–16).

    Because the Woman is a four-way symbol, different.aspects of the narrative apply to different referents. Like Mary, she is pictured as being in heaven and she flies (mirroring Mary’s Assumption). Like the Church, she is persecuted by the Devil after the Ascension of Christ. Like Israel, she experiences great trauma as the Messiah is brought forth (figuratively) from the nation. And like Eve, it is her (distant) seed with which the serpent has his primary conflict.

    Conversely, portions of the narrative do not apply to each referent. Mary did not experience literal pain when bringing forth the Messiah, but she suffered figuratively (the prophecy that a sword would pierce her heart at the Crucifixion). Eve did not ascend to heaven. And the Church did not bring forth the Messiah (rather, the Messiah brought forth his Church).

    English words have many meanings. ‘Love’ has many, so do the words ‘all’ and ‘until’. First-born only refers to the first-born. There does not have to be a second.

    1. Dear David.

      We have gone through all this before. Please believe in the Word of God as it is written.

      You wrote:

      The Woman is the Church because, as 12:17 tells us, “the rest of her offspring” are those who bear witness to Jesus, making them Christians.

      My reply.

      Yes, the offspring (not the woman) is the Church. We are all the children of the woman, the Jewish nation, who birthed the Church. All the first Christians were Jews, all the Apostles were Jewish. The first Church was formed in the district of Judea in Israel, and all the first Messianic Jews were reading from the Jewish scriptures.

      Dear David. All about our faith is Jewish.

      1. I do not disagree in the slightest that the Catholic faith, of which you are a branch (coming from the apostles…), stems from the Jews. Absolutely. That does not change one bit what I said above.

        Ivar, you are free to believe what you want. I’m not even trying to change it. But when you misrepresent my faith, I will call you on it. We do notworship Mary, we do not claim her to be divine. We give her her due as Mother of God., which means as I explained elsewhere. Don’t try and put your own spin on what it means. It means what we say it means. We don’t mean what you say it means. Look at the definitions of these terms. Don’t infer your own meaning on them.

      2. Ivar
        You said we are all children of the woman, the Jewish nation.
        Consider; The nation that God told Abraham that he would make of him the way I have thought this through is a nation of people who are believers like him. These are are
        true believers. As Paul said in Gal.3 He says that only believers are the children of Abraham. As Jesus told jews in Jn.8 I know you are Abrahams descendants but Abraham is not your father thus they were not his children because they did not believe. Could it be that the woman spoke of in Rev.12 is the nation of true believers.
        Consider; Believers of the Old testament were the ones that were awaiting for messiah,not unbelievers.Unbelievers would not care and nor did they believe he was who he said he was. It was people of faith
        that were waiting for Jesus to come. Yes he was from the Jewish race as prohesied
        but did it really matter if it was because it was the jewish nation or from the nation of believers from Abraham. After all It was Jeremiah Who said that the mother (Sarah) of Israel was a hitite And your father(Abraham) was an amorite or visa versa These were hardly jewish
        Thats my two cents
        Have a great day Ivar
        and may Jesus bless you

  7. You are welcome. I have learned from you also.

    Now on Matthew 1:25 again we are taking the word “until” in our English language to mean somthing which is in the future. Like I did not take my medicine “until” I opened the bottle. Meaning I will take my medicine in the future of opening that bottle.

    The word “until” “not until” in the Greek is an action which describes the past (heos hou) He knew her “not until” she bore a son means he knew her “not up to the point” that she bore a son. It has nothing to do with Joseph’s relationship with Mary after she gave birth to Jesus.

    Examples: Mt. 5:18 “For truly I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the law until it is all accomplished”
    This does not mean that after heaven and earth pass away all will no longer be accomplished. Meaning it was accomplished in the past.
    When Jesus said, He would be with us always, until the end of the world. Mt. 28:19 He did not mean He would not be with us after the end of the world. Meaning He would be with us always from the past.
    Luke says that Anna was a widow until she was eighty-four. Luke 2:37 This does not mean that she was not a widow after eighty-four. Meaning she was still a widow from the past. Michal the daughter of Saul had no child to the day of her death, 2Sam. 6:23 does not mean she had a child after her death.

    You have to kind of see these things in the context they are written and try and figure it out. This is why I took classes for three years on Jerusalem as to me I could not understand the Bible if I did not understand Jerusalem and some of the terms used. I came to the conclusion when I put the way I view words in the English language into the Bible, it made it very confusing for me. At times it made the Word seem to contradict itself, I knew that was not the case so I had to learn what some of these words meant.

    Again just something I learned. Thanks to you both, Sandy

  8. Sandy.

    Why do you make this so complicated?

    Go into your room, say with a laud voice: Mary the Mother of Jesus had sex, and was blessed with many children.

    Say it…The truth shall set you free.

      1. King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
        But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned

  9. Dear Ivar,

    No thanks. I do not make things complicated. I have learned what I have learned. I have done it through deep study. Truly it was in response to Ozzy and I am sorry if it made you mad. But I know what I told you was true. You want us to take what you say at face value and I am going to do that.

    You are always telling me “the truth will set me free.” All right I went and found out the truth about some of these things. I realized the Bible was written many times and maybe how I was seeing Scripture in my English language was not what it truly meant. I found out the way I read things on some were not the truth and it was not setting me free.

    What I gave to Ozzy is the difference in the languages and nothing else. So do not get so mad.

    I should have just stayed done I guess. Now you see how we feel when you post some of the things you do. It kind of gets aggravating doesn’t it?

    God Bless

    1. Dear Sandy.

      Shalom. (peace).

      You wrote:

      I realized the Bible was written many times and maybe how I was seeing Scripture in my English language was not what it truly meant.

      My comment:

      This is the most amazing statement. Try to tell this to the children who goes to school, who read their books in a bid to answer the exam. You are basically accusing God of being a liar.

      The Bible means what it says. The Jewish Faith of Mary the mother of Jesus is so simple to understand, that not even a fool shall be capable of getting lost. But Catholics perish because they refuse to believe the truth, but rater listen to children of the devil, who claim that the Word of God can not be understood, but needs to be twisted and put out of context. That is what Rome is all about.

  10. I believe I also said, “I also read things on some which were not the truth, (meaning not that the Word of God is not true, but the translation is not true according to Greek/Hebrew text) You know that is what I meant.

    Calling God a liar? Come on is this the best shot you have? I would in no way ever call God a liar and as much as I love Him you know that yourself. But if you think the English verison of the Bible did not lose something at times in it’s translation you are only deluding yourself. That is why the Strongs Concordance came to be, because some words in the Bible have an entirely different meaning then they are in English. The Bible was not first written in English. Remember those people lived in Israel?

    You hunt and try to find something you can hurt someone with so you can be right. It is just like you telling me you would apologize and repent if I could prove to you Jesus quoted out of Sirach. Then I did and you did no such thing. You lied to me, is that being a child of God? You broke a commandment.
    So right there tells me how dedicated you are to being so right. Right unless you are proven wrong, then you sing a different tune and come back with something else. Then have the nerve to tell me, “The truth will set you free” when you lied.

    It is not about you Ivar. It is not about me either. I do not know when God relinquished heaven to you. I must have slept in that day, that He told you, you could keep people in heaven or keep them out. You do not know where the soul of one Catholic is, do you? You might think they are all in hell, but you do not know. The reason you do not is because that is between God and that soul.

    You know if satan was smart would it not be better for him to give all the things of this world to the true children of God? That way they would become numb to the Truth, blind to Christ, and deaf to the Word. But you know what instead he gives more to those who are already blind, yet think they are not, and gives persecution to those who are true follwers of Christ, therefore leading them to greater worship, greater prayer, and greater faith. So persecute us all you want, because that is going to be the outcome of it for us. Greater worship, faith, and prayer. When we are persecuted do you think we go to you, or God? Don’t you realize I will pray to God tonight for you to stop persecuting us. We are persecuted because Jesus was.

    All I did was tell what the word “until” was in the Greek. Leave it alone, and for the love of God leave us alone. What do you gain by this? Nothing.

    Forgive me but I have had enough, this is just stupid and it is stupid of me. Sandy

    1. Dear Sandy.

      John 8:44
      You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.

      The truth is that «Jesus of Rome» is a copy-cat Messiah. There is no truth in him. He is a liar, and those who are his followers twist, and quote Bible verses out of context. Lucifer wanted to be worshiped as God, and many people call him God. When Lucifer is at his most dangerous level, He calls Him self «Jesus». Thats why many people who claimed to know Jesus, will end up in Hell.

      Marianism is a satanic lie, and Catholic Mary is holding a «Jesus» that is a liar, just like her. They are copycats of Tammuz and Semiramis form Babylon, telling us that we cant understand the Bible, but needs pagan priest to make us sin and do religious stuff to «save us».

      Matthew 7: 21-23

      “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!

      Which law is Jesus talking about? The Law of the Bible. Read it, obey it or perish.

  11. Whatever Ivar……. Use those Scriptures for yourself. I’m done. If I perish I perish doing what I feel God has called me to do, and I am not going to let you divert me from that. He talks to me also.

  12. I tell you what. I did a post called Go to the Heart of Jesus Instead of the Compelling of Love of the Heart of Man. I did this post because of the compelling love of the heart of man to tell others they are going to hell. If you read it that is exactly how I feel about it.

    It is also posted on the Catholic wordpress blog. That is all I am going to say tonight. Also if you would read my about and that will let you know about me and how I feel. There is also a page called what matters most at the end of the day and there you will find out what is important to me. If you care to there are also some post giving scripture about the very things you say are going to “send me to hell.” If you care to learn go there. If you do not, then don’t. But keep your compelling love you have for me to always be sending me to hell to yourself. You send me there so much they have a chair with my name on it now.

    1. Dear Sandy.

      Your comment:

      But keep your compelling love you have for me to always be sending me to hell to yourself. You send me there so much they have a chair with my name on it now.

      My reply.

      I am not sending you anywhere. I am called to tell the truth. By the Word of God, you were born. And by the Word of God you will spend the eternity in Heaven or Hell.

  13. Okay then I am going to hell. Be happy, sad or whatever. Man give it a break. You are obsessed with me going to hell. You know part of being Christian is discipline and restraint. Try to put a little of this in your life. There is a time to speak there is a time to be silent. The time to be silent is now. So let us just go to bed and tomorrow will be a new day.

    I told you go to my blog. If you do not want to fine. Get some peace in yourself, please………….

  14. It’s obvious that “IVAR” is a Baptist, as when you hear anyone that blasphemous against Jesus and Mary, this is what they have been taught. Ivar ” thou protestest too much” therefore you are showing your great interest in the Catholic Church, and there’s no doubt about that! These people must knock the Pope and Rome every chance they can, so they can at the same time deny that Jesus spoke to St. Peter saying “UPON THIS ROCK I BUILD MY CHURCH.” The descendants of St. Peter are the Popes that have come down through the ages. This is why they MUST deny sainthood also, so that they can call St. Peter a farce too. This is the bottom line with all these manical accusations against Catholicism. They must try to rein in the weak minded lost souls, as the devil roams the earth seeking the ruin of souls. The thing is that Ivar is doing a lousy job at convincing people here. Everybody who sees this Ivar dudes ranting should walk away and have a good chuckle to themselves, as only fools could take him seriously. Isabelle Windchime Cherokee tribe of CA.

    1. Dear Isabella.

      Shalom, and welcome to this site.

      I have no problem being called a lot of things. But please use scripture to expose my errors. I am using scripture to expose the Pope and the religious system of Rome.

    2. Greetings Isabella,

      It might interest you to know that the Apostle Peter never made it to Rome, neither was He buried there. The Roman Babylonian Church has been making up a lot of lies and man-made doctrines (Mark 7:6-9) to deceive and trap their adherents. I have investigated the Roman church for 20yrs lived and associated with priests some who are bishop today.. Peter died and was buried on Mt olives, Mary lived the rest of her live in Efesus after John the beloved was banished to pathmos. She too was buried in Efesus.

      The popes of Rome are sitting on top of these revelation as they know the harm it will unleash if the deceived faithfuls know the real truth. If the Bible did detail the account of The gentile apostle in Rome how could it omitted that of the man who was supposed to be the Rock of which vatican stands and draws its authority?

      Search the scripture for guidance its the highest authority and for in them ye find eternal life .

    3. I don’t think Baptist’s are THAT off, however, as we all know that there are over 30,000+ denominations, most saying they are “non-denominational”, but have a pastor they all worship. It’s like a circus…people running into a huge theater, nothing solemn, or reverent about them. I notice this too, and you will know by their fruits…No Catholic priest during ANY Mass, and I go almost daily, (We want to know Jesus in the Breaking of the bread) that often, has EVER spoken badly about a protestant Church…go to a Protestant church, and they’ll try to brain wash you and point out one sentenced verses without entire chapters to keep it in context to pull you away. The unfortunate thing is poor formation. Parents send their kids to Catholic schools, you hear it all of the time…”Well, I went to 12 years of Catholic school!” yes, but did your family go to Mass as a family. Was God #1 in the family? Is there prayer before meals? Is scripture reading done, any devotions? A school cannot be responsible for a’s the parent’s Most parents after baptism, don’t show up until forced to by the CCD instructor and pastor who will not confirm someone who has no intention of practicing their faith. They are the “hatched, matched, and dispatched” Catholics. Want the nice Baptism, a beautiful Church wedding and a big to do when they’re dead.

  15. Who the hell are you guys to decide who is right? has anyone every seen Jeses and his mother Mary? No. the Picture shown above was made by a human. The person who wrote the above things is really a a**h***. If you notice properly everyone is after Jeses Bcoz they all know that he is a real god. So, why wasteing time on these f***ing things.

    1. Dear Justin.

      Shalom, and welcome to this site. Since you sensor your own filthy language, I will approve your comment. I have not used bad words, but have only used the Bible to explain my views.

      You have the right to not believe in th Bible. I have the right to tell you that the Bible is the truth. Jesus loves you, and she shed His blood for you. Return to Him and He will save you. Amen.

  16. Dear ivarfjeld,

    I do know that the Bible is true and right, the only reason I used bad words is to let the above people know that they are wrong. The way they think is horrible, ahaaaa…..Look we are on 21st century and the people of this time don’t understand the proper word and language…m not very religious but I do love jeses and try to follow his words but seriously I don’t care what the people thinks abt Jesus and his mother..I seriously don’t like people talking wrong abt Jesus but everyone has their own point of view…and I can’t stop them thinking like that..let them think whatever they want..let us do our own work…life is very short and we need to enjoy it…lol…remaining all do hell with you and with your religion…and lastly I just wanted to tell everyone that be perfect and tell other to be perfect…take care everyone and don’t think naughty…lol

    1. Dear Justin.

      You wrote: life is very short and we need to enjoy it…l

      My reply:

      Jesus has given us eternal life. Life on Earth is not the purpose of our existence. We are strangers and aliens in this wicked and fallen World, While we are here, we have to shine among men, but also be salt. On of the things we are called to do is to rebuke and correct in love.

  17. I apologise for not using specific examples or proper terminology. I only wish to express my genral feelings after reading this web page.

    First off, I am greatly admired by the fact that the author of this site allows for others to post their comments. Lately I have been asking myself some questions regarding what is written in the bible and religous groups. When seeking information on websites often they porvide information and leave no opportunity for others to refute their arguments.

    Second, after reading through the New Testament and then hearing the Chatholic views on Mary I was extremly surprised. One thing I was told is that Catholics belive that Mary is the queen of Heaven?? Where is this in the bible? I just do not see the basis of this.

    Again, I am no Theologian. But, if a man on an island who had never been exposed to religion or the bible was asked to read the bible, what would he have to say about Mary, other than that Mary was the mother to our Saviour (and a very special person, chosen by God for such an important role). IMO, if Mary was the queen of heaven the bible would have made it clear/clearer.

    1. Dear Mike.

      Shalom, and welcome to this site. Thanks for this comment:

      I have been disappointed visiting blogs that does open for comments. I believe in the free expression of opinions, and open debate on faith. People with an open mind have to be ready to be rebuked.

      In regards to the truth about the Roman Catholic Church, most evangelical Christians do not know what kind of spiritual force that is behind the Vatican. Protestant leaders who indulge in activities with Rome, are either spiritual blind of cowards who keeps quit. Martin Luther, John Calvin and other reformers risked their life by telling the Catholics the truth. The Pope in Rome is an anti-Christ.

    2. If Solomon honored his mother so highly, as his queen mother(despite being born out of wedlock by a prostitute),how much more would Christ, perfect in love and in faith, honor HIS mother?
      The most loved quote here is not really stated…Rv12:1-5 John wrote of the “woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head, a crown of twelve stars”. bore a son, “destined to rule all the nations”. this is John, the Apostle’s dream…He is given Mary to care for and this is his vision in his dream that he has. If anyone was going to see anything going on with Mary,(call it a prophesy if you want), I would think that the one who continued to care for her would have this revealed to him?

      1. Kathleen,
        The catholic church has managed to twist what Revelation 12:1-5 stands for. Jesus is actually speaking about the Nation of Israel in those verses. The twelve stars are the twelve tribes of Israel. Mary was human like you and me, who needed to accept Jesus Christ as her Savior and believe in Him. There is no other way to get into Heaven.

      2. You do not have to understand the Ways of God – you must simply accept them

        “I never asked you to understand the Mystery of My Divinity, because the souls who truly love Me will love Me because of Who I Am and not what I bring. They will not seek out glory for themselves. They will not develop their spirituality to merely gain a foothold in My Kingdom. They will never use their knowledge of Me in a boastful way to score points. The souls who will reside within Me are the souls who ask for nothing, only that which they ask for the good of their own souls and that of others.

        When you say you represent Me, you do not talk and shout about how much you say you know Me. You must simply show love to others and follow My Teachings with a soul, which is empty of pride. So, if you are truly Mine, you will spend less time trying to define what I have told you; what I have taught you and what I promised. I ask that you come to Me and spend more time in quiet contemplation with Me. When you do this, I will reveal Myself to you more clearly and you will know in your hearts what it really means to serve Me truly. ‘
        -Your Jesus

      3. Dear Oldman

        Shalom, and love is Jesus.

        I see you have got a new signature: -Your Jesus…!.

        Please debate on this site, and use scriptures. The kind of “Jesus” you flag on this site, seems to be quite lawless.

      4. Oldman’s “Jesus” is another Jesus, not the Jesus in the Holy Scriptures. Beware this is contemplative, mysticism and leads to Romanism.

        Oldman continues to try and recapture some of the lost brethren – those who have been blessed with breaking away from Romanism.

        The material that Oldman quoted without properly attributing the source is from Chautard based on his 1907 pamphlet which led to the book in 1946.

        This material is from the same satanic source as that found in:

        “A Return to Love: Reflections on the Principles in A Course in Miracles” (Williamson);
        “A Course in Miracles” (Schucman);
        “Jesus Calling” (Young);
        “God Calling” (Russell).

        Bottom line: Become born again and read the Holy Scriptures. You do not need a “new” revelation from a “voice” while placing yourself in a contemplative state (meditation) to grow closer to G-d. Cry out to King Jesus (Y’shua) to make you born again, and then turn from your ways, repent and be saved from everlasting torment.

  18. 46. While he yet talked to the people, behold, [his] mother and his brethren stood without, desiring to speak with him. 47 Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee. 48 But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren? 49 And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren! 50 For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother. (Mathew 12)

    Why did Jesus say these words? Because he was well learned in the pagan religions of the Gentiles and He knew that worship of the Mother was customary in most if not all pagan religions. At that moment in history some were willing to bow to Mary so He told them that if they were obedient to Him they could all be his brother, His sister, or His Mother. Would it not be better if you, the one who is reading, could be His Brother, Sister, or Mother? So you have no reason to bow to Mary. You are all made equal to her is you obey Him.

    The Devil’s way is deceite, and to have us all to think that worship of Mary is the way to get closer to God. But here I have listed the scripture, how can you argue with it?

    For it is true. The church of Jesus is descibed as a “chaste virgin” and the “church of the Serpent” is described as a whore. Why?.. because she fornicates with the world, in more than one way, through her doctrine. And through this doctrine she causes the “falling away”.

  19. I believe that the whole point in relation to Mary mother of Jesus and the wife of Joseph, is that even if (let’s imagine) she didn’t have sexual relations with her husband Joseph, that would not make her better or more precious to God. God created man and woman and he created humans to reproduce by means of having sex. There is nothing wrong with having sex (within marriage, extramarital or before marriage is a sin).God loved Mary and she found favor in his eyes not because she was a virgin her whole life, but because God loves all humans. In fact, Paul said in the 1 Cor 7:5, that husband or wife is not to deprive the spouse from sexual relations. By doing this Mary would do wrong in the eyes of God. There is no reason why she should not have sex with Joseph, after Jesus was born.

  20. Psalms 69

    (Ps 69:8 [KJV])
    I am become a stranger unto my brethren, and an alien unto my mother’s children……………………..
    21. They gave me also gall for my meat; and in my thirst they gave me vinegar to drink.

    dear friends this prophecy clearly shows that mary
    should have more than one child.

  21. I appreciate much of what you have to say and write ….but on this I must correct you. “That woman is the Jewish nation, who birthed the 12 tribes of Israel.”

    The woman in Revelation 12 is not Israel [Jewish Nation], but Jerusalem above [see Galatians 4:26]



  22. It has always boggled my mind how Catholics can insist they are Christian, but are blind to the fact that they are actually members of a pseudo-Christian cult that will in no way be considered worthy of salvation on judgment day. Almost everything the Catholic Church teaches is considered an abomination according to the bible, but you can’t get through to them. The pagan rituals they follow are far more important to them than reading the bible and following what it says.

    This site alone has enough information to make this point, a simple Google search of “Roman Catholic Church” does the same, as does a Youtube search, especially for David Hunt’s movie “A Woman Rides the Beast”, but even all of that is not enough. Catholics are like the Pharaoh of Egypt, who after witnessing all the plagues, the killing of first born, etc., still could not see the truth. It’s actually quite sad because I know many great Catholics as well, but it matters nothing how good a life you think you’ve lived in you’ve been following a “different gospel”, especially one that opposes almost everything that the real Gospel teaches.


    Time is getting VERY short!


  24. Mat 13:53 And it came to pass, that when Jesus had finished these parables, he departed thence.
    Mat 13:54 And when he was come into his own country, he taught them in their synagogue, insomuch that they were astonished, and said, Whence hath this man this wisdom, and these mighty works?
    Mat 13:55 Is not this the carpenter’s son? is not his mother called Mary? and his brethren, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas?
    Mat 13:56 And his sisters, are they not all with us? Whence then hath this man all these things?
    Mat 13:57 And they were offended in him. But Jesus said unto them, A prophet is not without honour, save in his own country, and in his own house.

    If words like these were written about anyone else, in any other book, say the biography of John Doe, would you have a problem with the John Doe having brothers and sisters? I don’t think so. So, why is there a problem with Jesus having brothers and sisters? Is it because you believe the popes more than you believe “what is written”?

    The Bereans were mentioned in the book of Acts. After hearing Paul, they searched the sciptures to see if what he said was true. There are many people who followed that example and found out what the popes have said wasn’t true. This is one of those things.

    Mat 13:55 Is not this the carpenter’s son? is not his mother called Mary? and his brethren, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas?
    Mat 13:56 And his sisters, are they not all with us? Whence then hath this man all these things?

    I can picture the Lord asking you the same question He asked others, “How readest thou?” “Have ye never read?” “Is it not written?”

    Mat 13:55 Is not this the carpenter’s son? is not his mother called Mary? and his brethren, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas?
    Mat 13:56 And his sisters, are they not all with us? Whence then hath this man all these things?

  25. The woman of Revelation 12 is now here… God is very precise: A woman delivers the true word John1:1, Rev 12:5, Rev 12:13 who restores Acts 3:21 all things to the world before Christ’s return. This woman exposes the lies of Satan who has deceived the whole world Rev 12:9. This woman creates a new thing in the earth by fulfilling God’s promise to Eve Gen 3:15, Jer 31:22, Isa 14:16. She is meek like unto Moses Num 12:3, she was raised up Acts 3:22 from the Laodicean church that becomes lukewarm because they refused to hear her Rev 3:14-17. She is also bold like Elijah Matt 17:11, her witness alone turns the hearts of the fathers to the children Mal 4:5-6 to prepare a people for the Lords return before the great and dreadful day of the Lord Matt 17:3, Luke 9:30. Moses and Elijah are together with the word Matt 17:3 they all three are in this one woman. Those who will not hear Acts 3:23 the true word of God now delivered to the world free of charge, as a witness, at the heel of time from the wilderness Rev 12:6 will not be allowed inside the walls of God’s coming kingdom from heaven Rev 21. This true word turns the hearts of the fathers to the children of God by giving the truth that not one child of God will be put in a hell fire no matter what their sins. It never entered the heart or mind of God to ever do such a thing Jer 7:31, Jer 19:5. God created evil Isa 45:7 to teach his children the knowledge of good and evil Rom 8:7, Gen 3:22 so that at their resurrection they become a god Matt 22:29-30, Ps 82:6. Prove all things. Be a workman that needeth not to be ashamed. You cannot rightly judge this unless you read all that has been written by this woman first Pro 18:13 check out the bruising of Satan.

  26. The Holy Bible only gives a few verses to Miriam but the Quran in gives a whole chapter called Suran Al Miriam and has given 98 verses to this exalted woman.But one thing I never understand ( I am a Hindu who reads everything religious) why the Muslims dont believe in the death of Jesus.

    Listen to verse 33 what the Al- Masih says in this Surah
    Peace be on the day I was born
    Peace be on the day I die
    And Peace be on the day I am raised alive!!!

    In spite of my Hindu background – I believe that the Quran was sent down from above!!

    1. Vijay wrote,

      “In spite of my Hindu background – I believe that the Quran was sent down from above!!”

      You’re mistaken Vijay. The Quran was sent up from the pits of hell.

      Vijay also wrote,

      “But one thing I never understand ( I am a Hindu who reads everything religious) why the Muslims dont believe in the death of Jesus.”

      It’s because the Quran is an antichrist book.

  27. Why are the little girls wearing wedding veils..been told a ba-zillion times but it’s still not right…is she marrying the Queen she puts the wreaths on? Also the scale of a real baby in the arms of a Mother is not seen in any of these pictures Catholics portray…perhaps this religion came from some perverted Sex-Female thing, all the men have to bow down to them (the Queen bee)…hmm…it’s still sick!

  28. The bigotry and narrow-mindedness – not to say hatred – of the anti-Catholic fundamentalists on this page (beginning with the original article) is truly astounding. Those who stubbornly and dogmatically cling to the idea that the woman of Revelation 12 who gives birth to the Messiah has nothing to do with Mary seem to be more driven by anti-Catholic prejudice than by impartial and fair exegesis of Scripture.

    Congratulations to Sandy and David who make the Catholic case charitably and convincingly. Mary/Miriam in the New Testament is portrayed as the Daughter of Zion who is both virgin and mother – in fact our own loving Jewish mother. I would not like to be in the place of those who will one day appear before the King of the Jews and have to explain why they have scorned His mother.

    1. Mary is not a perpetual virgin as universal(catholic) believe..she birthed other children. Mary knew Joeseph .. he devirginized keep your false traditions for your own judgement when Yahusha says I never knew ewe.

  29. Ariel wrote,

    “Congratulations to Sandy and David who make the Catholic case charitably and convincingly.”

    It wasn’t convincing, except maybe in the eyes of a Catholic.

    Ariel also wrote,

    “The bigotry and narrow-mindedness – not to say hatred – of the anti-Catholic fundamentalists…”

    No one here hates Catholic people. What they do hate is wrong doctrine and there is nothing wrong with that.

    Rev 2:15 So hast thou also them that hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitans, which thing I hate.

    I think the devil sowed the Roman Catholic early church fathers and papal tares amongst the Christian wheat. I think Paul told us also these guys would come along.

    Act 20:29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.
    Act 20:30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.

    So, we know the Lord said to leave the tares alone and He will take care of them at the end of the world, Matthew 13. The brothers and sisters don’t kill or persecute the tares, they expose false doctrine. The Catholic church thought they were supposed to persecute and kill the tares, aka inquisitions, wars and pogroms. They can’t seem to get anything right, or at best, very little.

  30. Funny. Strange. First time I see this article.

    As a catholic, I was very devoted to Mary of Fatima, Lourdes , Miraculous Medal, Guadalupe, and a few other Marys, too.

    Once I vowed to follow the 1st of the 10 commandments, i renounced these Mary’s and now have true peace in my soul.

    What a scam these Mary’s are . Why settle for another human when we have Jesus who promised us: ““I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.” (John 14:6).

    Are you a daughter of Mary? Like me, maybe you find great comfort in her maternal-ness ? Renounce it. Renounce your emotional ties to another human. Ask God for forgiveness and make Jesus the only King of your heart. You won’t regret it.


    1. Kay,
      How much of the Catholic faith have you studied? From your comment, it seems like the answer is probably “not much.”

      It is absolutely elementary in the Catholic faith that Mary does not replace or compete against Jesus but leads us to Him, as I have witnessed in my own life.

      By rejecting Mary, you are also rejecting much of the Sacred Scriptures. See here for the biblical foundations of Mary’s role in salvation history: http://www……Cencored. External links not permitted. Editor…..word_of_god

      1. Ariel,

        I pray you find peace in Jesus alone.

        Three years in a convent located in Rome, Italy…3 years studied at Franciscan University of Steubenville…very devout catholic for +40 years…owner/reader of 100’s of catholic books including the Catechism, True Devotion to Mary, encyclicals…studied under Scott Hahn….mass with and in JPII private chapel inside the Vatican…student of Ignatius, Francis, Teresa, Therese and mostly mother Mary….

        Dear Ariel: I did not receive the great outpouring of the Holy Spirit until I vowed my heart to Jesus alone. I do not renounce biblical Mary. I simply
        view her as my deceased sister-in-
        faith and no longer pray to her nor do I pray to any dead person.

        The Catholic Church has added tradition to scripture. this tradition often contradicts the Word of God. I no longer put tradition in equality to the Word of God.


      2. Kay, that is really surprising, that you claim to have had such a formation and that you forsook the truth of apostolic and historical Christianity.

        You should know better, that tradition does not contradict the word of God, that the apostolic Church preceded the New Testament, that Mary is fully human and not divine, that she represents the fullness and perfection of discipleship and does not “compete” against Jesus. How did your concept of the communion of saints become so stunted and so out of sync with the beautiful vision of the saints in heaven praying for the saints on earth that we see in the book of Revelation?

        Surely you know that the Protestant version of Christianity that you have embraced is a new kid on the block, completely disconnected from Judaism and from all the early Churches of East and West?

      3. Ariel,

        There is no salvation in a church. I am not saved thru some faulty historical line of history which is wrought with human manipulation. Is Salvation only for those with ‘formation’. Can I build a stairway to heaven with obedient acts to tradition? No. My salvation comes from the Lord. And I am not condemned in Him.

        I testify humbly that I was never ‘born again’ in Gods Spirit until I stopped dividing my heart to reverent talking to saints.

        This is my last post. Peace, Kay

      4. Ariel,

        You said: It is absolutely elementary in the Catholic faith that Mary does not replace or compete against Jesus but leads us to Him, as I have witnessed in my own life.

        My Comment: Where does it say that in the Word of God?

        I can bet nowhere.

        But it says this: Luke 4:8 8 Jesus answered, “It is written: ‘Worship the Lord your God and serve him only.’

      5. Kay: true, salvation is found in Christ. All the more what a sad story that you have left the firm foundation that Jesus himself established upon the rock of Peter in favor the ever-shifting sands of Protestantism and its subjective traditions of men. What a tragedy that you have forsaken the Real Presence of the living Lord in the Eucharist.

  31. Gloria: of course we worship only the Lord our God. That goes without saying.

    but where do you get your definition of “Word of God”? What is the “Word of God”? You might say “the Bible”, but where does the Bible ever say that the Word of God is limited to the pages of the Bible? The truth is that it never says such a thing. The apostolic Church existed long before the New Testament.

    St. Paul affirms the importance of oral tradition: “stand firm and hold to the traditions that you were taught by us, either by our spoken word or by our letter.” (2Th 2:15)

    “Now I commend you because you remember me in everything and maintain the traditions even as I delivered them to you.” (1Co 11:2)

    And do you know what Paul calls the “pillar and bulwark of truth”? Not the Bible but the the church of the living God.” (1Tim 3:15)

    Yes, Sacred Scripture is the Word of God, but the Scriptures were born out of the Church and its apostolic tradition. When you reject the Church, you also reject the teachings of Scripture and, indirectly, you reject Christ.

    1. Rarely when you see the phrase “Word of God” does it pertain to scripture. Most always if not always pertains to Jesus Christ. A passage of scripture that is always preached incorrectly is Hebrew 4:12,13
      For the word of God is living and powerful,and sharper than any two-edged sword,piercing even to the division of soul and spirit,
      And of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. 13.And there is no creature hidden from HIS sight, but all things are naked and open to the eyes of HIM to whom we must give account.
      Verse 12 is always preached about as being the written word. I have never heard it preached otherwise. The learned teachers teach it that way and bible commentary writes about it that way.
      But that teaching is incorrect. To teach it meaning scripture is out of context of the whole chapter. It can be applied to mean written scripture, but in its context applying it to scripture is wrong teaching. Scholars, pastors(trained,and learned) do this all the time. Verse 13 must go along with 12. The word of God is
      Jesus Christ. He is living,he is powerful, he is sharper, he pierces the soul and spirit even to the joints and marrow. He is a discerner of the thoughts and intent of the heart. No creature is hidden from Jesus Christ. All things are naked and open to Jesus Christ to whom we must give account.. This is just one example. There are many. Taking verses out of context and making them fit ones particular teaching is done all the time and
      People believe and accept it as truth and before you know it we have a whole new theology. Teachers will be held responsible
      For it. They are blind and they lead the blind to a deeper blindness

      1. Dave1543: you are not paying attention to what I wrote. I wrote not about “membership” but about the fact that by forsaking the Eucharist Kay has forsaken the Lord, or at least the closest and most intimate union with Him and His love. It’s a big loss for her.

    2. Ariel,

      You said: of course we worship only the Lord our God. That goes without saying.

      My comment: So then why do you bow down to the Pope, and call him father? Why do bow to Mary and Pray to her? When the Word of God says do not worship idols.

      Isaiah 46:6-10 Those who lavish gold from the purse, and weigh out silver in the scales, hire a goldsmith, and he makes it into a god; then they fall down and worship! They lift it to their shoulders, they carry it, they set it in its place, and it stands there; it cannot move from its place. If one cries to it, it does not answer or save him from his trouble. “Remember this and stand firm, recall it to mind, you transgressors, remember the former things of old; for I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like me, declaring the end from the beginning and from ancient times things not yet done, saying, ‘My counsel shall stand, and I will accomplish all my purpose,’

      Ariel, i implore you to stop bowing down to things that cannot respond to you. Stop feeling dead flesh. You need to turn away and follow the Lord your God, and no one else.

      1. It’s a waste of time to talk to you guys. You are apparently more interested in remaining in your blind anti-Catholic prejudice than in a sincere desire for truth. God bless

      2. That’s all you got out of what has been said to you ….because that is all you wanted to get…it’s the only way you can justify your refusal to lift Jesus Christ up instead you defend the Catholic Doctrines with your life….sad..very sad….the Catholic Church did not die for you on that Cross…neither did any of the other children Mary had (which you more than likely deny that she had any other children than Jesus)…but that is an assumption for one who is so dogmatic about a Religion that started 300 years after the Death, Burial and Resurrection of Jesus Christ…

      3. Ariel,

        I see you have no legitimate response to the catholic’s false worship of dead flesh, pope etc.

        May you see beofre it is too late, that Jesus christ is the only one you should serve always.


      4. Gloria,
        I didn’t answer because you are obviously not open to the truth. You are so stubbornly entrenched in your irrational anti-catholicism that I doubt any Scriptures or amount of common sense could convince you. We do not worship the pope or “dead flesh.” That you are able to utter such stupidities in the age of information, in a day and age when you are actually able to inform yourself easily is truly astounding.

        We do not “worship” to the pope. We only worship God. We love the pope and respect him, similar to the way we would respect an important head of state. Jesus gave to Peter the keys of the kingdom of heaven, so what is wrong in respecting the office that the Lord himself established? Similarly, we love Mary the mother of the Lord just as Jesus loved her. Rev 12 clearly shows that the mother of the Lord is engaged in spiritual battle against the devil, and that all those who follow the Lord’s commandments are her children.

        Gloria, I implore you to take action against your blind prejudice and ignorance, and start learning seriously about the Catholic faith before criticizing something of which you know nothing about but the most primitive and ridiculous caricatures.

      5. Andrea, you wrote: “…a Religion that started 300 years after the Death, Burial and Resurrection of Jesus Christ…”

        This too is nonsense. Complete myth and fantasy that has nothing to do with truth or reality.

        Here are some quotes from the early Church Fathers who show that the Catholic Church was well established in the second century, when the Church was still persecuted by the Roman Empire:


      6. Ariel….Those that know the Lord Jesus Christ will follow Him…and they know His voice….

        Ariel ….Fact is you are in the ”wrong line”…bantering words across the miles of space while you press on toward that wide gate.

        May God have mercy on your soul

        *hint…you’re on dangerous ground

      7. Ariel,

        You do not have to answer me. That does not change the facts that you have joined a religion that has distorted the Word of God, that have comitted many acts against what God has taught us.

        You said: That you are able to utter such stupidities in the age of information, in a day and age when you are actually able to inform yourself easily is truly astounding.

        My comment: 2 Timothy 3:7 Always learning and never able to arrive at a knowledge of the truth.

        It’s a perfect verse to describe you. You claim to learn, you claim to be an expert, yet the truth in HIS WORD, and still you are blind.

        You said: We do not “worship” to the pope. We only worship God.

        My comment: That is a lie. You even go as far as calling the pope holy father, a sinner like you and I.

        Matthew 23:9 And do not call anyone on earth ‘father,’ for you have one Father, and he is in heaven.

        You said: Gloria, I implore you to take action against your blind prejudice and ignorance, and start learning seriously about the Catholic faith before criticizing something of which you know nothing about but the most primitive and ridiculous caricatures.

        My comment: I do not know what to say to a person who has hardened there hearts against Christ, and have chosen to believe in lies. Except that though I do not know you, I pray that you open your eyes, and heart to see the truth. The catholic religion leads many to the wide gates of hell. When we all stand before Christ, we can never say “we never knew.” Repent before it’s too late.

      8. To the editor of this blog: your censure is a disgrace. I am trying to provide some evidence from the early Church fathers to support my claims, and they get deleted. So much for having an earnest conversation here when the local Gestapo deletes any serious evidence that I try to post. I will let you guys continue to revel in your ignorance and anti-Catholic prejudice, which is apparently more important than truth and charity. I am grateful that I have a very close relationship with Christ. I used to be evangelical and it was by talking with prejudiced people like you that I realized how fundamentalist views such as yours are unbiblical, and this helped me to become open to looking into the claims of the Catholic Church. There I found the fullness of Jesus Christ my Lord and Savior.

      9. Dear Ariel

        Shalom, and love in Yeshua.

        Your latest post is a disgrace, calling the editor’s of this blog for “gestapo”. No one forced you to enter this site, and you are free to leave. Basically, I do not want this kind of religious filth on News That Matters. Please leave. May Jesus the Messiah have mercy on your soul, and free you from your terrible bondage to the Papacy. Amen.

      10. ivarfjeld:
        apologies for the “gestapo” comment. I probably got carried away. But perhaps you can try to understand that it is frustrating to try to simply support your comments with testimonies from the early Church Fathers and to see them get deleted for no reason.

        On the other hand, your ridiculous comment about “bondage to the papacy” demonstrates that you, also, understand nothing about the papacy and about how Catholics view it.

        What exactly is your source of information anyway? Which of the writings of recent popes have you read? Since you have such a strong opinion, surely you must have read Benedict’s encyclicals on love and hope? Or his books on Jesus of Nazareth? Or surely John Paul II’s “Redeemer of Man”? Or you must have heard or read all of the popes’ weekly teachings in these last years?

        Please tell me what genuine sources you have read so I can know that your opinion is based on fact and not on ignorance and prejudice?

        You are free to disregard Mat 16:18-19, Lk 22:32; Jn 21:15-17; all the passages in Acts showing that Peter held the leadership in the early church, as well as the overwhelming historical evidence that the successors of Peter continued to exercise this leadership role in the following centuries (I would post some quotes but they will probably get deleted by those editors who prefer prejudice to facts) – you are free to ignore all these things if you like, but at least have the common courtesy to give the benefit of the doubt to Catholics who wish to take Scripture and early Church history seriously.

        Prejudice and arrogance (about presuming your own salvation while rejecting that of other believers in Christ) are not, as far as I can recall, fruits of the Holy Spirit.

      11. Dear Ariel.

        Shalom, and love in Jesus.

        A hypocrite is not know for what He says. But for not walking the talk. You might teach correctly from the Bible, but practice lawlessness.

        The problem with the papacy, is that the Pope do not even teach correct about Jesus of the Bible. His “Christ” is a copy cat. And a copy cat can not save.

        The most spectacular and grave error of the Roman Catholic Church is the papacy it self. The very idea that you can mock the scripture, by calling the Pope “The Holy Father”. Jesus gave us a stern warning, not to call any spiritual leader or priest for “father”. Jesus called His Father God in heaven for “Holy Father”, the only Holy Father there is.

        The Roman Catholic Church seems to be saying: To “Hell” with the scripture. We are a law of our own. The office of the Pope is devilish, deceptive and demonic. The Papacy claim to know Jesus the Messiah, but makes a mockery out of His teachings.


        No created being can ever be the “Vicar of Christ”. That is the task of the Holy Spirit, the only replacement for Jesus that have ever been. To take the role of the Holy Spirit is sin against the Holy Spirit, a sin that will never be forgiven.

        Ariel. If you are going to escape the eternal fire of Hell, you have to renounce the evil of the Papacy. I have to warn you, so your blood does not come on my hands.

        I have told you this, because i love you. I love Roman Catholics enough to tell them the truth.

      12. ivarfjeld:

        I appreciate your concern for my salvation, but you have not answered a critical question: what exactly have you read of the pope’s writings?

        Answering this question is essential to determine whether you know what you are talking about, and whether you are speaking out of informed knowledge or out of ignorant prejudice. So far, your words seem to indicate the latter. You have not given any indication at all that you know what you are talking about. It seems like you have only read anti-Catholic propaganda and that don’t have a clue about what the pope actually teaches. But if you are able to prove the contrary, then I am ready to stand corrected.

        As for your concern regarding calling the pope “holy father” I would try to answer you, but unfortunately the local censor of this blog makes intelligent discussion nearly impossible by deleting all links and quotations, so unfortunately I can’t say very much. However, in a nutshell, the Bible is full of examples of symbolic fatherhood such as the following verse from St. Paul:

        “I do not write this to make you ashamed, but to admonish you as my beloved children. For though you have countless guides in Christ, you do not have many fathers. For I became your father in Christ Jesus through the gospel” (1 Cor. 4:14–15).

        If Jesus had meant “call no man father” literally, then I hope you don’t ever call your own father “father” or your teacher at school “teacher”. Anyone can figure out that many things in the Bible are hyperbole or exaggerations to make a point. Or do you perhaps cut off your arm and pluck out your eye when these lead you to sin?

      13. Dear Ariel.

        Shalom, and praise Jesus.

        I have been a not believing, but practicing Roman Catholic, for many years. I was in a group of Catholics covering up the sex crimes committed by our local parish priest, whom the Archbishop sent in hiding out of the country.

        I have studied the catechism of the RCC, and knows Catholic teachings better than many Roman Catholics. I have read about 100 of letters of Popes, Cardinals and Bishops, but not the last books of Ratzinger.

        You wrote:

        “I do not write this to make you ashamed, but to admonish you as my beloved children. For though you have countless guides in Christ, you do not have many fathers. For I became your father in Christ Jesus through the gospel” (1 Cor. 4:14–15).

        If Jesus had meant “call no man father” literally, then I hope you don’t ever call your own father “father” or your teacher at school “teacher”.

        My reply:

        Roman Catholics are deceived to believe in a Jesus that is a little bit mad, confused and who contradicts Him self. You are one of them. Paul DO NOT demand to be addressed as “Father”. He says he has become a father figure.

        That is inline with what Jesus has taught. Even a child will be able to understand what I am trying to say. But not Roman Catholic adults, who have accepted a religious spirit who leads to spiritual blindness in regards to what the Holy Spirit explains.

        DO NOT call any priest for “Father”. The Holy Spirit within me, convicts me not to participate in this kind of blasphemy. I will rather face the inquisition tribunal and be beheaded, that to obey the Roman Catholic religion.

        I am now a free man, who can worship God in Spirit and in truth. Saved for eternity by the blood of Jesus.

        You need to Repent, or perish.

      14. ivarfjeld,

        I’m sorry to hear that you were directly involved in some of the scandals that have wounded the Church. No doubt this has influenced your negative opinion of it.

        100 letters of popes? For example? Could you name a few encyclicals?

        If you “know Catholic teachings better than many Roman Catholics”, then how is it that you show no evidence at all of understanding Catholicism?

        You know, I used to be a fundamentalist Christian like you, and it’s by talking with people like you, and being confronted with this type of judgmental prejudice that pushed me away from fundamentalism into the Catholic Church. There I have found the true peace of Christ on the Rock of Peter that was so elusive before in the constantly shifting sands of the fundamentalist Christianity that you espouse, where every believer is an authority in himself/herself. My relationship with Christ has tremendously grown since then in a way that was previously impossible.

        Since you take Jesus’ words so literally, have you then cut your arm or plucked out your eyes when these lead you to sin? And I hope you never call your biological father “father” and never call school teachers “teacher”, because Jesus has also forbidden this, apparently.

        I am also a free man, free to worship God in spirit and in truth. Except that I am less judgmental than you are. Unlike you, I prefer to avoid the arrogance and pride of making a judgment regarding your salvation, as you do to me, even though you have never met me.

        I was not aware that arrogant judgement and pride are fruits of the Holy Spirit?

      15. Dear Ariel.


        You wrote:

        100 letters of popes? For example? Could you name a few encyclicals?

        My reply:

        It will be fruitless to communicate with you, since you do not base your communication on the truth. I never stated that I had read ‘100 letters of the Popes”. This is a typical twist that leads to gossips, false statements, and eventually lies.

        I am not going to participate in your distribution of lies. Our conversation will end with this reply.

        It is difficult to communicate with Roman Catholics, who do not have the Bible as the highest authority in matters of faith. Because you will be jumping around topics, and mixing in human wisdom with the not fallible Word of God. This leads to confusion, deception, and eternal separation from God in the flames of Hell.

        When we point out the errors, and outright blasphemy of the Papacy, we are branded as “arrogant” and “full of pride”. In stead of looking into the matters of false doctrines, and acknowledging the bad fruits, you keep on attacking the messenger. You defend the criminal priests, bishops and cardinals on your midst, and put more sorrow and pain to the victims of these crimes. Sexual crimes, rape of altar boys, support for totalitarian regimes, etc, are not fruits of the Holy Spirit. But fruits of being sold out to Satan.

        Repent or perish.

      16. You guys apparently don’t realize how you are driving people away from Jesus and from Christianity with your extremely narrow, fundamentalist, subjective interpretation of Scripture. You don’t realize that Christians all over the word at every time in history have believed in Christ in different ways than yours. Most Christians have believed in the apostolic forms of Christianity that have existed since the first centuries of the Church. You don’t realize how the narrow fundamentalism you subscribe to is a totally novel “tradition of men” that didn’t exist until even 100 years ago. Even the first reformers (Luther, Calvin, etc…) had much more “Catholic” beliefs.

        And you don’t realize the irony of your arrogance: You attack the pope, and at the same time you enthrone yourselves as private “popes” who know all the truth and all the correct ways to interpret Scripture, no matter how many other saints and great men and women of God have believed otherwise.

        Frankly, between following Christ with great saints and martyrs such as St. Ignatius, Augustine, Francis of Assisi, Thomas Aquinas, Teresa of Avila, St John of the Cross and John Paul II, and following your gloomy and ignorant “repent or perish”, it’s a pretty easy choice.

        I just hope the Lord will give you the humility and wisdom to understand what damage you are doing to Christianity and how many people you are pushing away from Him and from the Kingdom.

        Fortunately I have a strong relationship with Jesus, so nothing you can say really phases me, but it’s heartbreaking to think of others who may have a weaker faith and be confronted with your harsh, arrogant and ignorant preaching.

        God bless,

      17. Ariel,

        You said: You guys apparently don’t realize how you are driving people away from Jesus and from Christianity with your extremely narrow, fundamentalist, subjective interpretation of Scripture.

        My Comment: Yet, when we point out the errors of the catholic church against the Word of God, you refuse to budge and admit your wrong.

        We can go round and round in circles with this, but your heart is too hardened to see the truth, and you are so engrossed in the catholic lie, that I truly fear for your soul.

        Ephesians 4:18 They are darkened in their understanding, alienated from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them, due to their hardness of heart.

    3. Gloria: the “errors of the catholic church against the Word of God” only exist in your narrow imagination. They don’t exist in reality. No Church is more biblical and faithful to the heart of Jesus than the Catholic Church. I know, I have experienced both forms of Christianity. Your narrow fundamentalism, which I belonged to for about 7 years, is only a pale shadow of the fullness of the Lord that is found in the Catholic Church.

      1. Ariel,

        Why are you here? Please leave this site. You are not here to learn about Jesus Christ, but to spread your lies. You have been warned you need to repent or perish. That is the last I will say to you.

  32. Ariel wrote,

    “…What a tragedy that you have forsaken the Real Presence of the living Lord in the Eucharist.”

    I think it is a good testimony that Kay has. The Lord led her out of that darkness, as well as many others. No Catholic or Protestant is going to heaven by membership in their church. Christians, the souls who have been born again of the Spirit, are the brothers and sisters who will be with the Lord. Not the ones that are still in Adam.

    1. Dave1543: you are not paying attention to what I wrote. I did not write about “membership in a church” but about the fact that by forsaking the Eucharist Kay has forsaken the Lord, or at least the closest and most intimate union with Him and His love. It’s a big loss for her.

      1. Ariel,

        I understand exactly what you wrote. It doesn’t sound like Kay has forsaken the Lord to me. It sounds like she got saved.

  33. That’s because you don’t understand the Eucharist and you have probably never encountered the Lord in this depth of intimacy. The difference between being content with mere a “personal relationship” with Jesus by faith and receiving the Eucharist is the equivalent of the difference between two spouses who maintain their relationship by talking on the phone and two spouses who come together in the conjugal union. The former may truly have a “personal relationship” but it’s far from the level of depth, intimacy and love of the latter.

    1. you said ….”mere a “personal relationship” with Jesus by faith …”

      You’re like the Donner Party that knew so much, they wound up eating their dead…have no fear …that crazied spirit has entered the blinded by those who want ”more than Jesus”…so you “get” a Deeper Jesus….it’s called ”another jesus”…from the pit of hell…that’s the DEPTH you wanted and that’s the Depth you got…May God help all those who are foolish enough to listen to you…and if by chance you may be granted the gift of repentance ..your traitorous soul may be saved..

      1. Hi Andrea,
        Just wanted to say thanks for your prayers for my daughter.
        Everything turned out fine with no problems. PTL

      2. My dear friend, you don’t know what you’re talking about: “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. (Joh 6:53)

        “After this many of his disciples turned back and no longer walked with him.” (Joh 6:66)

        Are you also walking away from the Lord like these disciples, refusing to believe what he said about His flesh and blood?

      3. What are you talking about?? you made a statement about ”the mere relationship with Jesus” that there was ”more”…as a relationship you referred to as a man and a woman on conjugal relationship?? so you tell me what exactly is ‘more than a personal relationship with the Lord of Glory??

      4. It goes like this: we all have “personal relationships” with lots of people. You might have a “personal relationship” with the waiter at the restaurant where you like to eat or with the cashier at whatever store you go to. You might have a “personal relationship” with your friends or members of your family. But all these relationships can involve little commitment or sometimes none at all. Not so in marriage: the commitment to one’s spouse has to be total, involving body and soul, and for life.

        In the same way, having only a “personal relationship” with the Lord is not enough. He wants a *covenant relationship* with us which involves the totality of our being. This covenant relationship is actualized most fully in the sacraments that He has instituted, and especially through the Eucharist where He gives us His body and blood, soul and divinity.

        This is why if you don’t receive the sacraments you may well have a “personal relationship” with the Lord, but this is kind of like having a telephone relationship with your spouse. It’s certainly something, but not exactly the fullness of what the covenant union is supposed be.

      5. Whether you worship thru Catholicism or not, is your personal choice…’personal…that which is commitment between their doctrine and many other doctrines…some to good some to bad and confusion. However your ‘If you don’t receive the sacraments….with the Lord you do not have that personal relationship with him….my response to that dear heart is ”Hogspit”…yes …I wish to God your decision to be as dogmatic about Lifting up Jesus as you are the dogmatic rituals of the Catholic Church. There were ”many years”…the Catholic Church denied people either or the ‘blood (cup) or the body (wafer bread)…Only the priests could take part in that…so these poor souls were not in any way in a personal relationship with Jesus…(The Lord)…there were ‘candles sold to get people out of hell, they were not ‘as bad’ to deserve hell…but they were never able to come out of hell ”unless” their relatives ”sold their selves in sex for the priests, or their children sold in sex to the priests or…or….they had the amount of money to purchase that dearly beloved one out of hell into Limbo…lets not forget the ‘tender loving closeness with The Lord just some of the other Doctrines…you can ”only” take the Communion (Sacraments) once a month…or you can only take the Communion twice a month.. only on Sunday…only on Saturday…yet The Word of God says quite differently for ALL of these self imposed pious ‘wanna be gods’…your faith says it’s Okay for that Pope who for hundreds of years has been told to the public he is ”in the Place of The Holy Father on Earth…yet Jesus ..THE LORD…said ‘call no man Father’… there are so many contradictory things Sweetheart on what you claim and the basis you claim them it is really frightening…I for one often wonder ‘how was I so stupid to let a dumb demon feed me all those lies that I was fed’…yet you too will have your eyes open if you truly set yourself apart from all that you believe,..sit it up on a shelf and let God burn it with His Fire and what is left ‘you can count your Eternal Life on it will be TRUE’ …but until you or anyone has the guts to really take their entire belief and put it to the Test of The Holy Ghost you’ll be lead around by dumb stupid demons just like I was and a million others daily before me and after the day my eyes were opened…Keep in mind there is only ONE who died for us…Only ONE Sweetheart…and HE alone can show us and does every day and every night, how to draw nigh to God and we always will see, feel, hear, His presence…and be able to taste the Heavenly Gift..even smell (smile)…(and no I was not Catholic)…Blessed be the Name of the Lord God for ever more!

      6. Andrea:

        Your comments reflect such an astounding ignorance of everything Catholic that I wouldn’t even know where to begin to correct all your mistakes. Almost every single statement that you made above is wrong. I can only recommend that you begin to seriously inform yourself. This is a serious moral responsibility that lies upon your conscience. You cannot write such mumbo jumbo and nonsense, a long string of incredibly naive cliches, caricatures and lies without bearing some amount of guilt before God.

        If you are honest before God, may I suggest that you choose one of two options: either inform yourself seriously before saying another word about Catholicism. It seems to me fair that if you want to talk about a topic, then you should first have a clue about it. You do not live in the Middle Ages and you have all the correct information at your fingertips today. Or, if you choose to remain in this unbelievable ignorance, then at least have the humility to not talk about a subject of which you know nothing about.

        If you interested in learning, a good place to begin is the Compendium of the Catechism of the Catholic Church: http://www.vat……Cencored. External links. Not permitted. Editor. endium_ccc/documents/archive_2005_compendium-ccc_en.html

        Or, you can have a look at Catholics for Israel’s online Bible course:
        http://www.cath……Cencored. External links. Not permitted. Editor. urse/part-ii

        God bless!

      7. Dear Ariel


        I understand that you are in “Catholic for Israel”. Not all of us are illiterate, or have been indoctrinated to believe in the falsification of World History.

        It is correct that the Pope has always been “for Israel”. But the Papacy’s love for Israel is not based on a support for Jews to remain Jews.

        The Pope’s have always forced Jews to convert, so they can become good Catholics. During the age the Papacy forced Jews to be baptized, and to come for mass. If they refused to obey, the were expelled from the land. Like in Spain in 1482, and Portugal in 1498. Pogroms and even Inquisition have been a part of the Popes love for Israel. Judaizers were burnt at stake, with blessings of the Roman Catholic Bishops.

        In regards to Jerusalem, the Pope does not recognize the liberated and not dividable capital of Israel. The Pope occupied Jerusalem from 1099 A.D to 1291 A.D. The Papacy has always worked to retake the city, and make it a base for the Holy See. Rome can never be the eternal city, and there was never a Temple of God in the pagan capital.

        Ariel. Repent or perish.

      8. Ariel, The facts I have told to you …I have not lied to you, and all the facts that Ivar also laid out are not lies to you. When one hears something they have a choice to ‘defend what they believe’ or check out the Truth of the matter. In your case dear, you have chosen to believe a Lie not because it is profitable for you, but because it is profitable for the demons leading you on that fast track to destruction…. Jesus said is the reason people chose not to come to Him (believe on Him)…which is very sad and dangerous….”You love your sins more than you love HIM”…less you’d chose to believe His Word not the doctrine of devils…so He would heal you. I can only reiterate what Ivar said…Repent or Perish..

  34. I am getting edify,thanks,i want to know who is dragon and significance of chapter 12 to our present christian life

    1. Hello Dakaino,

      Grace and peace.

      Revelation 12:9 tells us that the dragon is none other than the devil himself. The woman is Israel, from whom ” a son who was to rule all nations with an iron rod” (Rev. 12:5) would descend. In verse 18, we read that the dragon goes to make war with her other offspring, the church, who keep the commandments of God and the testimony of the Lord, Jesus Christ.

      I hope this was of some help.

  35. Greetings Ivar,
    I am sure you know what indoctrination is, the worst form the popes of which Rome has adopted is “catch them young” for Catholics which I was once not an exception; it is harder to un learn a lie (doctrines and commandments of men) as thought by vatican than to learn a new truth (which only is new to the deceived). No one comes to the son except if the Father draw him.
    You need to be on the side of the truth to discern the lies of the Roman Church which is a modernised religion of the ancient Babylon.
    May Y’shua intervene to save our brothers from these endtime deception in the name of Mary for time is short.



  36. It goes back to Babylon and the wife and child of Nimrod; Semiramis and Tammus. Semiramis demanded the Jewish women to bake sacrifice and temple cakes to idols. And they did, unfortunately

  37. I agree the woman riding the beast is Papal Rome, but I disagree about the woman who gave birth to the male child. Obviously, it cannot be Mary. But I don’t see how it is the Jewish people in general. God has only had one covenant people in all time, one chosen people. People who have faith in the Messiah. Jew’s who do not cannot be a people of God. Old Testament saints, aka Old Testament spiritual Israel, aka the Old Testament Church was made up of mostly people in physical Israel, but not exclusively. Since the time of Christ it has been made up of Jews and Gentiles who trust in Jesus Christ. So I would say that since the woman was persecuted in the wilderness after the male child was born, she could be a picture of believer’s in any generation. Jews today who are of National Israel who reject the Messiah, would not be persecuted by the dragon for their testimony. As, 1 John 4:3 says, “And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ (Messiah) is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist.” So Jew and Genitle BELIEVERS seem to be persecuted (see FOXE’S BOOK OF MARTYRS), thus being the first woman. But I very much agree with you about Mystery Babylon and the Harlot being the false Roman system.

  38. Satan tries to demolish Christ’s Divinity by lowering all associated with Him. The cunning of the beast is beyond our comprehension.

    There is a MDM message regarding Revelation 12:1 . Let us wait and see what is going to happen soon.
    ….My role as Mediatrix of all Graces is soon to be realized, and as the woman chosen to be clothed in the rays of the sun, my time has come to help my Son in His final plan of salvation….
    —— Mother of Jesus

    1. Dear Oldman.


      You wrote:

      ….My role as Mediatrix of all Graces is soon to be realized, and as the woman chosen to be clothed in the rays of the sun, my time has come to help my Son in His final plan of salvation….
      —— Mother of Jesus

      My reply:

      This is not a quote from the Bible. It rather goes against the Bible, and make the scriptures null and void. That is the work of an anti-Christ, a false Messiah, a copy cat.

      1. The Mother of Jesus was Jewish, a Torah obeying virgin. She is not a Mediatrix, a co redeemer.
      2. The mother of Jesus was a sinner, saved by grace. She will not be ” clothed in the rays of the sun”. She is not coming back, not going to return to Earth. Not coming as a co-redeemer.
      3. The mother of Jesus will not help her “son in his final plan of salvation”. God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, do not need the help of any created being for their plan of saving mankind.

      Roman Catholics at large, believe in the appearances of “Catholic Mary”. This is demonic activities, false miracles taking place to deceive the elect, if possible. A true appearances of angles, will always be in line with scripture. If it is not, reject it as a message from Satan.

  39. On Dec 1, 2013 this MDM message reveals the Truth of Revelation 12:1 .
    My child, I am the woman clothed with the sun and it is the sun, which represents the Light of God in the world. Without the sun, there is no Light. Without Light, there is no Life. Without God, there is only death.

    My role as the Mother of Salvation, where I will assist my Son in this His final Mission, His final Plan to complete His Father’s Covenant to bring salvation to every soul, means that I will do all that I can to bring Him the souls He so desires. I wish it to be known that I have been appointed, not only the Queen of Heaven, but Queen over the twelve tribes of Israel. Twelve nations will reign in the New Jerusalem. The twelve stars, on my crown, which were placed upon my head by my beloved Son, Jesus Christ, during my Coronation, signify this prophecy. Each of these stars represents the twelve nations, which will evolve on the Day of Judgment.
    —— Mother of God

  40. This is what RCC is all about- a mixture of this and that, a sprinkle of some Bible truths, covered by a heavy dose of paganism, topped by a batch of mysticism, spirituality, etc., and finally, some blending, shaking and twisting – what is the end result? A confused and half baked concoction, er, church composed of Catholics who doesn’t know the WHOLE Bible truth and so believes any hook, line or sinker that the popes give them! I know this, because I was once a catholic, I know all about the church “traditions”, (been there, done that!) but when I started reading the whole Bible, I began to see inconsistencies with the teachings of the RCC and what is in the written Word of God. (Thank God that I’m now free and my “blinded eyes” can now see!!) Now, the topic about the woman in Revelation 12….please note that the book of Revelation is unique from the other NT books in the sense that it is mainly about visions, prophecies, signs and symbols, that are not meant to be taken LITERALLY!!. In fact, to prove this point, in some of the passages, the angel tells John the meaning or representation of the things John saw! Another fact, Bible scholars have maintained that a “woman” in prophecy stands for either a “church” or a “nation”. So where did RCC get this idea of the woman being Mary herself? (ah, from the supposed Marian apparitions!) But my main question is, out of all the various visions and symbols mentioned in Revelation why is the RCC giving much focus and highlight on this “woman”, while mum or vague on the other symbols/signs?

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