Endtime unity around false Marian theology

The International Mary of Nazareth Center in the city of Nazareth will be inaugurated Friday by the Latin Patriarch of Jerusalem.

On the feast of the Annunciation, just across from the Basilica of the Annunciation, an international, interreligious center dedicated to Our Lady is set to open.The International Mary of Nazareth Center will be inaugurated Friday by the Latin Patriarch of Jerusalem, His Beatitude Fouad Twal.

The Roman Catholic Patriarch of Jerusalem does his very best to deceive the Jewish people.

At 5 p.m., an ecumenical celebration will bring together representatives of the Churches of the Holy Land.

The following day, the center will open its doors to the public.

The International Mary of Nazareth Center has an ecumenical aim and promotes interreligious dialogue.

The Center showing in one of the rooms the way in which the Virgin Mary is perceived by the Eastern Churches, in the Quran and as a Jewish woman.

Source:  Zenit.com

Here is another site, that explains to the reader the true motive behind this Marian center in Nazareth.

Ecumenical in its approach, the aim is to show Mary in the Christian, Jewish and Muslim worlds by means of contemporary audio-visual techniques. A one-hour visit can include the biblical terrace gardens and chapel on the roof, with wonderful views over Nazareth. There will also be a restaurant and gift shop.

My comment:

There is nothing in the Bible that tell us to promote and end time unity across religions.

The Catholic Church has its own agenda, to bring unity between Catholics, Christians, Muslims and Jews. Those who start to support this religious movement, will end up supporting the last anti-Christ that will appear in flesh.

Another Roman Catholic chapel of deceptions has come up in Nazareth.

To use “Jesus” as an end time unity factor, is not possible. Because very few can accept that Jesus of the Bible is the only way to Heaven.

Neither are they willing to repent, and Obey His teaching.

The majority of the Jews feel that they do not need to be washed by the blood of the Messiah.

The Muslims claims Jesus is not God, and the Catholics feel that faith in Maria is a better way to be saved.

The Roman Catholic “Mary” can be used to get “end time unity”. Because she does not teach anything, and therefore is no challenge to any religious person. Since Mary of the Bible does not have a teaching or righteousness of her own, it is easy to create a man made theology around her, add human wisdom and doctrines taught by demons.

The mother of Jesus has not paid with her blood for the sins of the World, nor was she crucified for your sins.

Since faith in Mary can not save anyone, the Vatican has added to the scriptures to make her a co-redeemer to her son. The Papal religious movement claims she was born without sin, lived a sinless life, never had sex with her husband, and was taken sinless up in heaven in body and soul.  That makes “Catholic Mary” a pagan goddess, that has absolutely nothing to do with the Biblical faith in Jesus the Messiah.

The teaching of Rome also robs the mother of Jesus from her Jewishness. In stead of being a Law obeying Jewish girl, she has become a spiritual prostitute that promotes worship of idols, and her self being the pagan “Queen of Heaven”.

1 Timothy 2:5
For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus.

There is simply not a single line in the Bible who speaks about “God the Mother”, or “The Mother of God”. The Jewish virgin Miriam must be crying tears of blood over the wicked people who have elevated her above men, copied her ID and made her a goddess.

What blasphemy. What a shame.

The Vatican is a truly a house of demons. If you want to have eternal life, please run for your life. Have nothing to do with the evil deeds of darkness of the Pope and his followers.

First published: 24.03.2011.

Written by Ivar

74 thoughts on “Endtime unity around false Marian theology

  1. Speechless (Somewhat) What life do you have but to attack the Church? Read the Bible. Listen to the Story of Scott Hahn and read the book Surprised by truth. I dare you. What is wrong with wanting unity and peace between religions.

    Proud Catholic (and always will be. I have been strengthened in faith by the TRUTH of His Word.)

    JKB

    1. you are very ignorant, you perish because you want to perish,you make the right choice or you dont,thanks to the vatican people are confused about the bible. they accept everything. dude , you are a moron , with all the information you get in this website and plus the bible in your hand you should know better by now. i want to unite with killer muslims and people who deny jesus christ , are you kidding me.We need to unite to teach the gospel to them and that jesus christ is the messiah and the only way, am ok with this unity but not with the unity that we are from diffrent religions and we are worshiping the same god cause is not it just plain wrong.no excuses i will not boast on how much catholic i am or how much christian i am , i will only boast on jesus christ alone. and by the way god send his son to the cross so he can forgive us from are sins and save us from the wrath, not so i can call myself a proud catholic or a proud christian, is so i can tell other people what he did for me so they can get save too, if they have faith in jesus christ and believe, am over people calling themselves a proud this and a proud that , why dont you take your time to share the gospel instead, you are not a proud catholic you just think you are better than everyone else ,i bet you spend your whole day judging people.

      1. Also, I am female, and I find the use of the word “crazies” offensive. You have no idea what the mentally ill go through, you should not label people. Past that. I’ll spell it out: The church believes that muslims are “on the path of salvation” only ONLY because they believe that a god exists. Therefore they are more likely than an athiest to convert to Christianity and be saved. Read it in the catechism last night. It says they are more likely to be prepared to hear the word of God because they are already searching for God.

      2. Dear Jkbho07

        Shalom.

        Are Muslims searching for God?

        You wrote:

        It says they are more likely to be prepared to hear the word of God because they are already searching for God.

        My reply:

        Truth-seekers are searching for God. They shall find the truth about Jesus being the only way to Heaven. Muslims who rejects that God has a Son, is not searching for the truth. They have submitted to a religious spirits from the Bottomless pit. If they are not delivered and leave such falsehood, they will all perish.

        Roman Catholic leaders are truth-mockers. They have the Bible is their hand, but tells their flock not to believe what is written. The Word of God has been made null and void, and replaced by the doctrines of the Vatican. Such people shall burn in the fire of Hell, and there shall be no end to their pain and agony.

        This is the truth. You can accept this, and beg Jesus for mercy. Or you can reject this message. It is your choice.

      3. Jib.

        The church is trying to unite with Islam. Do a search on catholic /islam dialogue.
        I wish I could talk but I have to go. We’ll continue later.
        Clo..please be respectful and a witness for Jesus. Be kind and speak truth in gentleness.
        JKB
        I pray healing for you and freedom in Jesus. May you be blessed by His mercy and deliverance. Amen.
        sue

    2. GUEST WHAT? I have mentally ill and homosexuals in my family and while other people reject them i reach out to them and they are happy around me and am happy around them beacause they know am not fake am real.please pray for them and other people you have come across that are the same, and also lady, am not against you the reason am saying this stuff is for your own good, i dont understand how the information is right in your face and you dont get it, you are love by everyone here and most important by are heavenly father ,i use to believe just like yourself and say most of the stuff you say and when i hear people talking like this i remeber how ignorant i was , am not perfect you are not perfect nobody is, sometimes is going to hurt when people come straight foward on you, i rather have someone come and talk to me like this than giving me a -lolli pop- and tell me that everything is ok and that we should worship jesus christ any way we want even if we are from the church of satan, COEXIST idea is wrong , jesus christ is all we need.

  2. Dear Jkbwh07,

    I actually sat in his class as I attended the University he teaches at.
    This year I left the Catholicism after giving my life to Christ ALONE.
    Unity among religions is what the antichrist will rule over. Jesus said:
    Matthew 10:24
    “Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I have not come to bring peace, but a sword.”

    The peace that is coming is a false peace. There will be a one world religion and the RCC is leading the way. The Catechism says that Muslims are included in the plan of salvation, and Hindus and Buddhists can achieve divine enlightenment through their false gods.
    Scripture says the opposite:
    Do not be yoked with unbelievers…
    I dare you to keep searching and see what your church is doing the political sphere, calling for world government and trying to unite religions for the one world religion.Check my blog, I have lots of articles about it.
    Please check out this site:
    http://www.bereanbeacon.org

    Peace,
    Sue

    1. I find that a very strange statement, that Catholics believe Muslims and Buddhists and Hindus are a-ok. I have a catechism right here beside me and it says no such thing, has never said such a thing, and never will. One sentence I decided to leave off my post, but is seemingly needed now, is that we should not argue about who is right, we should live in peace, but no one is saved except through Jesus Christ. But best believe that one day everyone will kneel and confess he is Lord above all.

      1. Do you have the Vatican 2 book? I’m sorry, the Muslims in the plan of salvation in in the Catechism and the Buddhists and Hindus is in Vatican 2. I will try to find it. Be right back.

      2. Taken from the Vatican web site:
        http://www.vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_decl_19651028_nostra-aetate_en.html

        3. The Church regards with esteem also the Moslems. They adore the one God, living and subsisting in Himself; merciful and all- powerful, the Creator of heaven and earth,(5) who has spoken to men; they take pains to submit wholeheartedly to even His inscrutable decrees, just as Abraham, with whom the faith of Islam takes pleasure in linking itself, submitted to God. Though they do not acknowledge Jesus as God, they revere Him as a prophet. They also honor Mary, His virgin Mother; at times they even call on her with devotion. In addition, they await the day of judgment when God will render their deserts to all those who have been raised up from the dead. Finally, they value the moral life and worship God especially through prayer, almsgiving and fasting.

        Since in the course of centuries not a few quarrels and hostilities have arisen between Christians and Moslems, this sacred synod urges all to forget the past and to work sincerely for mutual understanding and to preserve as well as to promote together for the benefit of all mankind social justice and moral welfare, as well as peace and freedom.

        Religions, however, that are bound up with an advanced culture have struggled to answer the same questions by means of more refined concepts and a more developed language. Thus in Hinduism, men contemplate the divine mystery and express it through an inexhaustible abundance of myths and through searching philosophical inquiry. They seek freedom from the anguish of our human condition either through ascetical practices or profound meditation or a flight to God with love and trust. Again, Buddhism, in its various forms, realizes the radical insufficiency of this changeable world; it teaches a way by which men, in a devout and confident spirit, may be able either to acquire the state of perfect liberation, or attain, by their own efforts or through higher help, supreme illumination. Likewise, other religions found everywhere try to counter the restlessness of the human heart, each in its own manner, by proposing “ways,” comprising teachings, rules of life, and sacred rites. The Catholic Church rejects nothing that is true and holy in these religions.

      3. i can say, no one is saved except through jesus christ and that one day everyone will kneel and confess he is Lord above all, but if i yoke and unite with carazies than am not believing. how you going to unite with Muslims and Buddhists and Hindus and then said those words , what you are doing sir , is confusing people.

    2. Reading my book here and it states indeed that muslims and others are in the plan of salvation because any goodness in their religion readies them for introdution to the gospel of Christ.

      1. JKB, the encyclical is very clear. I’m not sure if you are reading the encyclical or catechism. The RCC states that Buddhists CAN achieve SUPREME illumination and PERFECT LIBERATION through praying to their false gods.

        This is false. This is an approval of their religion. They are not getting them ready to hear the gospel. They are accepting their religion as valid. How can praying to a false god give you liberation or freedom? It can not. Praying to “Buddha” is praying to demons. Demons do not bring freedom.
        I pray you can see this.
        I have to go for now. Please come back tomorrow, or go to my blog by clicking on my name and we will chat some more.
        Thank you for sharing your thoughts. I hope we can continue our conversation.
        Love in Jesus,
        Sue

    1. This is completely out of context and in fact my mother and I converse quite openly about our disapproval of any upcoming One World Government, we, as catholics, believe it is a end time sign.

      1. Jkb,

        It is happening. The Pope backs the United Nations and many of their plans. Last year the Pope said we need a stronger UN with teeth.
        http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8137849.stm

        I researched for about a year everything the Vatican said and did..in politics and “inter-religious” dialogue. I searched the scriptures and compared them to the Catechism. I had no choice but to leave and follow the scriptures. There is so much contradiction in RCC teaching compared to the Bible. I have already read Catholic apologetics and many of my professors were apologists.

      2. Dear jkb,

        I am glad you disapprove of world government. And I’m glad you see it as an end-time sign. You are correct.
        You need to ask yourself why is the pope promoting it? What’s in it for him?
        Remember during the Inquisition, the Church has supreme power and used civil power to attain her goals. That is how she could murder people without getting her hands dirty.
        The RCC is a political state. Our Lord did not intend for the church to be a political worldly church, but a fellowship of believers. We are not of this world, this is not our home.
        My sister, I tell you these things with a complete understanding of your mind-set and theology.

  3. # The ratification of Nostra Aetate (NA) in October 1965 by the bishops of the Second Vatican Council set in motion a dynamic that continues to shape the modern Church. It is intended to be a teaching about the relation of the Church to people who belong to other religious traditions, with particular attention paid to Jews (the longest section of the Decree), Moslems, Hindus and Buddhists. It is useful here briefly to summarise some of the things which the Council acknowledges about these religious traditions: In Hinduism people explore the divine mystery and express it in myth and philosophy; they seek release from the trials of life by asceticism, mediation and recourse to God in confidence and love.
    # Buddhism proposes a way of life in which people can attain a state of perfect liberation and reach supreme illumination, either through their own efforts or with divine help.
    # Muslims worship the one, merciful and almighty God; they endeavour to submit themselves to God’s decrees, venerate Jesus as a prophet, revere the Blessed Virgin and await judgement and the rewards of heaven.

  4. What wrong with wanting unity and peace between religions? Seriously?

    I am really afraid for all the souls out there that are going to be fooled into thinking this way. No one is trying to attack the church as you say. They are trying to open people’s eyes to the simple truth of the gospels and of Jesus Christ. His word tells us exactly what’s wrong with peace and unity among religions. Read it, I dare YOU!

    The people who write the articles on this site are writing them based purely on what the Bible tells us… so if you have a problem with scripture or don’t believe it…. here’s what you can do– read it for yourself and take it up with the divine author and editor.

    You know what they say about opinions– we all have them… but scripture is not opinion, it’s fact and law. These folks have not distorted it, as certain other churches have done, and added to the word of GOD. GOD is very specific about what will happen to those who add or take away from His word. The people practicing religions that have done this among other things, such as practicing idolatry, revering men that are sinnners like all others, etc– need to take a long, hard look at what they’re submitting to.

    The only way that religions can unite is to take Jesus Christ out of the equation…. is that what you would have them do? How can people who believe in Jesus Christ unite with those who serve other gods that have nothing to do with Him? Have you thought carefully at all about what you’re saying?? What you’re saying is that it’s all o.k. and that everyone is promised eternal life and that it’s ok to continue preaching and spreading lies that will send people to hell. People need to know the truth.. there’s only one way to obtain eternal salvation, and that’s by the precious blood of Jesus Christ alone. All other religions are false, and void. That’s reality, and I hope more people open their eyes to it soon for their soul’s sake.

    1. The only thing I can say here without taking up a book of pages is…. The Bible was put together by the RCC, it didn’t just fall out of the sky….

      1. Dear JKbwho07

        Shalom, and welcome to this site.

        You wrote:

        The only thing I can say here without taking up a book of pages is…. The Bible was put together by the RCC, it didn’t just fall out of the sky….

        My reply:

        This is a very common misunderstanding. The Bible is a 3.000 year old book. The scriptures was written in Hebrew and Aramaic, not Latin. The Jewish Cannon was completed 1.500 years before there was a Roman Catholic Church, with its center in pagan Rome.

        The Bible was there when Jesus walked the earth. He taught from the Torah in the synagogues. The New testament is basically a confirmation of the Old Testament, where Jesus confirms the scriptures.

        When the New Testament cannon was put together and closed, the Roman Catholic Church did not control the Christian World. In 325 A.D there were multiple synods in the Middle East that did not accept the Bishop of Rome as anything but a puppet for the Emperor of Rome.

        Please read history.

        The Roman Catholic Church captured and lead Western Christianity astray from around 500 A.D. Slowly the idol worshipers lead the whole Europe into the dark ages. But there was always been a Church of true Messianic Baptists, that rejects the falsehood of Rome. People who serve Lord Jesus of the Bible, with all their heart, soul and strength.

  5. “The Vatican is a truly a house of demons. If you want to have eternal life, please run for your life. Have nothing to do with the evil deeds of darkness of the Pope and his followers” – amen.

    The woman who sits on seven hills is calling those in darkness to follow her. She is the “Mother of Harlots.” (Revelation 17) She will lead many to darkness. There is no truth in her; Mary “the Queen of the Heavens” is the “Mother of mankind” according to the website for this new center (“God wants us to approach Him through Mary” they say):

    “Mary’s life was in all truth a perfect “fiat” and God bequeathed to her special glory exceeding that of any other creature. Mary is the Queen of the Heavens and the Earth, but she is above all the Mother of God and the Mother of mankind. God wants us to approach Him through Mary, as He came to the earth through His Mother. It is very difficult to speak about Mary without decreasing her brilliance and her greatness.”

    http://www.mariedenazareth.com/5.0.html?&L=1

      1. JKB,

        The problem here is Scripture says no one should pray to the dead and only to GOD. Jews would NEVER pray to the dead. Which apostle advocated praying to the dead? None of them. After Stephen was martyred did any of them ask Stephen to pray for them? No.
        How are you certain they can hear you? Only God is omnipotent, can read your thoughts and is omnipresent. To say a created being can do the same is to give humans the same attributes as God.
        The difference between me asking my pastor to pray for me and me asking Mary to pray for me, is Mary is DEAD. She is in the spirit rehlm and as I said, to say she can ‘hear’ you is giving her attributes of God alone.

        We only have one mediator, Christ Jesus.

        1 Timothy 2

        1I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men;

        2For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.

        3For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;

        4Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

        5For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

  6. You are right about the old testament, but I’m sorry to say, not the new. You are following lies that enemies of the church have spread, that satan has spread. I have read history on the fact that the RCC put together the Bible in 300 ce

  7. Dear JKb,

    Welcome back.Good to have you here.

    He is not spreading lies.

    It cannot be proven that the Catholic Church is solely responsible for the gathering and selection of the New Testament books. In fact, it can be shown that the New Testament books were gathered into one volume and were in circulation long before the Catholic Church claims to have taken its action in 390 at the council of Hippo. In the following we list some of the catalogues of the books of the Bible which are given by early Christian writers.

    * 326. Athanasius, bishop at Alexandria, mentions all of the New Testament books.
    * 315-386. Cyril, bishop at Jerusalem, gives a list of all New Testament books except Revelation.
    * 270. Eusebius, bishop at Caesarea, called the Father of ecclesiastical history, gives an account of the persecution of Emperor Diocletian whose edict required that all churches be destroyed and the Scriptures burned. He lists all the books of the New Testament. He was commissioned by Constantine to have transcribed fifty copies of the Bible for use of the churches of Constantinople.
    * 185-254. Origen, born at Alexandria, names all the books of both the Old and New Testaments.
    * 165-220. Clement, of Alexandria, names all the books of the New Testament except Philemon, James, 2 Peter and 3 John. In addition we are told by Eusebius, who had the works of Clement, that he gave explanations and quotations from all the canonical books.

    * 160-240. Turtullian, contemporary of Origen and Clement, mentions all the New Testament books except 2 Peter, James and 2 John.
    * 135-200. Irenaeus, quoted from all New Testament books except Philemon, Jude, James and 3 John.
    * 100-147. Justin Martyr, mentions the Gospels as being four in number and quotes from them and some of the epistles of Paul and Revelation.
    * Besides the above, the early church fathers have handed down in their writings quotations from all the New Testament books so much so that it is said that the entire New Testament can be reproduced from their writings alone.

    Thus, the New Testament books were in existence in their present form at the close of the apostolic age. As a matter of fact, the apostles themselves put their writings into circulation. “And when this letter has been read among you, see that it be read in the church of the Laodiceans also; and that you yourselves read the letter from Laodicea.” (Col. 4:16). “I charge you by the Lord that this epistle be read to all the holy brethren.” (1 Thess. 5:27). The holy Scriptures were written for all (1 Cor. 1:2; Eph. 1:1) and all will be judged by them in the last day (Rev. 20:12; John 12:48). Jesus said that His Word will abide forever (Matt. 24:35; 1 Pet. 1:23-25).
    http://www.bible.ca/cath-bible-origin.htm

  8. Thank you so much for writing this article. The gospels do say that Joseph kept Mary a virgin until Jesus was born, not for the rest of her life.
    Hebrews says we can “boldy approach the throne of grace” ourselves.
    I agree with what you said about Mary. We should be worshipping our King who came to earth from paradise and died a horrible death for all of us.

    1. Dear Holly,
      Catholics do not WORSHIP MARY we venerate her! Read the Catechism of the Catholic Church and stop misquoting what they believe! If Jesus honored his Mother (as the Commandments say) then certainly I can honor the “Mother of my Lord” as Elizabeth said to Mary.
      as regards to Mary not being a perpetual virgin, and possibly having brothers Jn. 19-27 clearly places Mary in Johns charge. Jesus would not have done this if he had brothers. This gesture would have been highly disrespectful.
      If you take Mt. 1:25 literally ” He had no relations with her until she bore a son…” concluding that this passage implies that Joseph had relations with her after Jesus was born is a misinterpretation of the term “until” as it is used in scripture. In the bible the the word “until is often used in scripture in a specific way to imply only the fulfillment of certain conditions. It indicates nothing about what occurs after those conditions are fulfilled.
      therefore, the verse in question does not in any way imply that Joseph and Mary had relations after Jesus’ birth. It only states that they did not up till that point.
      look at 1 Cor. 15:25- He must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet” Clearly , Jesus reigns after that as well
      MT. 28:18-20 “….Behold I am with you until the end of the age” who would onclude from this that Jesus will no longer be with us after the end of the world?
      2 Sam 6:23- ” And so Saul’s daughter was childless to the day of her death.” She obviously did not have children after her death.
      Jn. 5:17-“… Jesus answered them, ” My Father is at work until now, so I am at work.” did the Father stop working upon the birth of the Messiah?
      I venerate Mary and give her the honor that she is due. I WORSHIP the Holy Trinity period!!!

      1. I literally just clapped to an empty room, thank you for this. I have never made the note that Christ put Mary in John’s charge, this being a sign he did not have brothers. Thanks!

      2. Pat,

        In Judaism and in Catholicism..marriages are not NOT considered marriages unless they are consummated. In fact, according to the church, if the couple does not have relations after marriage, they aren’t even considered married!
        You mean to tell me, Joseph, who could have been tempted to sin(especially if his entire life was forced to be celibate), was married, and could not have relations with his wife..which was necessary to be a true marriage?
        Marriage is good and holy. Did Joseph and Mary sleep apart in separate rooms? This is a fairy tale. They were MARRIED and lived as married people, obeying Jewish laws.
        the RCC has made Jewish Miriam into a goddess..untouchable, sinless, can be prayed to and can answer prayer and perpetual virgin. The Church received many Greeks into the church with this philosophy..it was so similar to Greek goddesses and gods. Constantine allowed so much paganism into the church, cut off the Jewishness of the church, demanded passover not to be celebrated and on and on.
        Sue

      3. Pat,
        Shalom.
        You said:
        n. 19-27 clearly places Mary in Johns charge. Jesus would not have done this if he had brothers. This gesture would have been highly disrespectful.

        My comment:
        This does not prove Jesus did not have brothers.
        At the time of His crucifixion, Jesus’ brothers were unbelievers.
        Why would He entrust his mother to his unbelieving genetic brothers that had no faith in Him?

        He loved John. And John stood with Him by the cross…where were his brothers? Not around.
        He entrusted His mother, a believer, to John who was a believer.
        Jesus said ..
        Mark 3:3-5
        “Anyone who does God’s will is my brother and sister and mother.”
        Jesus said believers are true family, not necessarily genetic family. The bond of believers transcends genetics, therefore it would not be an insult to entrust Mary to John, fellow follower of our Lord.In His compassion He made sure his mother was in constant spiritual support and physical support as all believers took care of each others temporal needs.

      4. Pat,

        You said: Catholics do not WORSHIP MARY we venerate her! Read the Catechism of the Catholic Church and stop misquoting what they believe!

        My Comment: One of the meanings of veneration is this: veneration – idolatry: religious zeal; the willingness to serve God

        Now compare that Pat, to what the Word of God says about idolatry (see below Exodus 20:3-6), and you will see that the people who praise Mary is worshipping idols, and is against the word of God.

        Exodus 20:3-6 “You shall have no other gods before me. “You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. You shall not bow down to them or serve them, for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and the fourth generation of those who hate me, but showing steadfast love to thousands of those who love me and keep my commandments.

  9. Gee, I seem to remember that Jesus spoke to Dead People, ummm… who was it? Oh Yeah Moses and Elijah! he did it in front of Peter, James and John.
    We who believe in Christ do not die, but have eternal life in Him. If you make it to heaven and I pray that all of you will then you will see God face to face.You are part of the body of Christ ALIVE not dead, now in heaven while some are still on Earth.
    Saints in heaven are merely an extension of the body of Christ. And since they now are in God’s prescense they surely can also pray for us and we can ask them to pray for us along with praying directly to Jesus.
    Alas on the Bible debate about the Catholic Church at Hippo did indeed put together the Bible as you have it. Sure the Bible is a collection of books that were written before the council of Hippo, some being accepted some of the books were in question but it is
    at the Council of Hippo that finalized what was to be accepted and what was not to be accepted through the Guidance of the Holy Spirit. There were other Gospels floating around at that time and the Catholic church settled officially that question.

    Dear JKB, there is a great book written by a former Protestant Dave Armstrong (now Catholic) called a Biblical Defense of Catholicism. You would really find it insightful and well worth the read!!!
    Catholicism can be defended BIBLICALLY!!!

  10. Dear Pat,

    Peace be with you. Thank you for your comments.

    There is quite a difference in Jesus speaking to Elijah and Moses than us, mere humans, calling on dead humans to intercede for us. There is ONE mediator, our Lord Jesus who intercedes on our behalf at the Right Hand of the Father. No one else. Just because the saints are in heaven does not mean they have His attributes of being omnipotent.
    Pat do you know of any apostles that prayed to the dead?
    Our faith stems from the Jewish faith. I don’t know any Jews that pray to the dead. It would be considered deadly sin.
    Blessings.
    Sue

    1. Sue,

      Where is it said that Jesus had brothers and that they were non believers. I cannot fathom that someone could grow up with God in their home and to not believe Him. (posted here because there was no reply button to your other post)

      JKB

      1. Did they believe in Jesus?
        Acts 1:14 says that Jesus’ disciples “all continued with one accord in prayer and supplication, with the women and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with His brothers.” So, eventually, His brothers eventually became believers, and one of them, James, even became a Christian leader. But that’s after Jesus’ resurrection. Here, they “did not believe in Him” (John 7:5), considered Him to be an embarrassment to the family and are taunting Him to “Depart from here and go into Judea” (John 7:3) and “show Yourself to the world.” (John 7:4)

  11. I thought Elijah and Moses were humans. Do you know something I don’t? The departed saints here being Moses and Elija are pictured as being intensly interested in earthly affairs, just as angels are portrayed throughout the Bible. It is neither logical nor plausible to deny that these saints pray for us.If they are aware of our affairs it follows that they can “hear” our petitions.
    If you look at 2 Maccabees 15: 13-14; “Then likewise a man appeared, distinguished by his gray hair and dignity, and of marvelous majesty and authority. And Onias spoke saying, ‘This is a man who loves the brethren and prays much for the people and the holy city, Jeremiah, the prophet of God.'”
    this is an account of a vision seen by Judas Maccabeus (15:11). Onias, a deceased high priest, appears praying with outstretched hands, for the whole body of Jews (15:12). He proceeds to introduce Judas to the prophet Jeremiah, who had been dead for centuries, yet who according to Onias, intercedes much for the Jews. Jeremiah also speaks to Judas(15:16). Thus here is an undeniable proof of the intercession of (dead) saints on behalf of the inhabitents on earth.
    If you question this Sueliz because this is in the Apocrypha, similiar information is conveyed in the Protestant Bible in Jeremiah 15:1 ” Then the Lord said to me, ‘Though Moses and Sanmuel stood before me, yet my heart would not turn toward this people.'”. Here it appears that God recieves the prayers of the dead saints as a matter of course. Moses and Samuel were both known as intercessors, and Jeremiah lived centuries after both men.
    I never claimed that the Saints are omnipotent. Only God is. How you came to that conclusion is puzzeling?
    I do believe that there is only one mediator our Lord Jesus. I never said there was not. I do know that I can ask my brothers and sisters in heaven to speak to Jesus the mediator as you ask your friends to also pray for you to Jesus.
    Rev 5;8 and 8;3-4 speak of the prayers of the saints. It does not say only saints on Earth.
    Our faith indeed stems from the Jewish faith.
    I do not pray to the dead, I pray to the Saints who are alive in Christ for intercession and also directly to Jesus. I consider the saints my heavenly family who are keenly interested that I make it home!
    This is not idol worship! They are not God to whom the only worship belongs. The only difference between you and me is that you only employ the saints on earth for intercession , who do not behold the face of God.I choose to ask all the saints on earth and in heaven to pray for me, while I also pray to Jesus.
    Pax Christi,
    Pat

  12. Pat,

    Maccabees was added to scripture after council of Trent to counter-act the Reformation. The Jews reject Maccabees as His Word and do not consider the apocrypha to be the Word. None of these books were quoted in the New Testament and are not scripture. Historical text, yes. The Word of God? No.

    You only believe the Saints (capital S) are saints after the RCC declares them as such after they are dead. This is another lie. In the Bible the LIVING are saints (and SAVED), but the RCC says you can not say you are saved or you will be anathema! There is no assurance of salvation in Catholicism. That is dogma. The saved on earth are the saints, but the RCC says you can become a saint when you are dead. NO! Yes, there are saints alive and saints in heaven, but I do not believe they can “hear” me and my prayers in my heart. Only God can see the prayers
    of the heart.
    commentary on Jeremiah:
    2. He will not admit any intercession to be made for them (Jeremiah 15:1): “Though Moses and Samuel stood before me, by prayer or sacrifice to reconcile me to them, yet I could not be prevailed with to admit them into favour.” Moses and Samuel were two as great favourites of Heaven as ever were the blessings of this earth, and were particularly famed for the success of their mediation between God and his offending people; many a time they would have been destroyed if Moses had not stood before him in the breach; and to Samuel’s prayers they owed their lives (1 Samuel 12:19); yet even their intercessions should not prevail, no, not though they were now in a state of perfection, much less Jeremiah’s who was now a man subject to like passions as others. The putting of this as a case, Though they should stand before me, supposes that they do not, and is an intimation that saints in heaven are not intercessors for saints on earth. It is the prerogative of the Eternal Word to be the only Mediator in the other world, whatever Moses, and Samuel, and others were in this.
    Blessings.
    Sue

  13. Sueliz,
    Regarding Mary and brothers of Jesus. Jesus growing up Jewish would have respected Jewish culture and it would be unlikely that if he had brothers he would have handed Mary over to John. Your comment about Jesus having brothers who were unbelievers is a new one to me. Where is that exactly in the Bible?
    When Jesus was found in the temple at around age twelve, there is no comment about him having brothers or sisters, this is also the last time we hear of Joseph. It seems like a big leap to make this comment.
    Since Jesus was the first born any younger brothers would not speak harshly of an older sibling. In the Jewish hierarchical structure of society at that time they would have risked being stoned if they spoke out against Jesus. If you are referring to Mk 3:21 or Jn7:3-4 they probably were cousins or fellow tribesman.
    Indeed Sueliz marriage is good and holy and in the Catholic Church a sacrament. But to say that it would be impossible for Mary to remain a virgin might rustle St. Pauls feathers a bit. 1 Cor 7:37-38 ” The one stands firm in his resolve, however, who is not under compulsion but has the power over his own will, and has made up his mind to keep his virgin, will be doing well. So then, the one who marries his virgin does well: the one who does not marry her will do better.” To Paul, the celibate state is always preferable to the conjugal state for thos who have the discipline to maintain it. For those who cannot, the conjugal state is preferable to a life of sin. It is hardly surprizing that a woman of Mary’s faith would have followed the the path of greatest piety.
    also 1 Cor.7:29 and Rev 14:2-5 speak of virgins.

    1. Dear Pat.

      Shalom.

      You wrote:

      Indeed Sueliz marriage is good and holy and in the Catholic Church a sacrament. But to say that it would be impossible for Mary to remain a virgin might rustle St. Pauls feathers a bit.

      My comment:

      If Jewish Mary was married, and did not give sex to her husband, she lived a hopeless life in sin. Because the wife’s body belongs to the husband. Paul told virgins to stay unmarried. Not to marry, and remain married virgins. The Roman Catholic doctrines of sexless Mary is demonic, and only serves the purpose of mixing the true faith with paganism around the “Queen of Heaven”, a sinless goddess.

      1. Dear Ivar,

        That is the truth brother.
        It is a sin to deny your spouse.Scripture says to only abstain during agreed periods of prayer as to not be tempted.

        Sue

    2. Pat said: “Your comment about Jesus having brothers who were unbelievers is a new one to me. Where is that exactly in the Bible?”

      John 7
      Jesus Goes to the Festival of Tabernacles
      1 After this, Jesus went around in Galilee. He did not want to go about in Judea because the Jewish leaders there were looking for a way to kill him. 2 But when the Jewish Festival of Tabernacles was near, 3 Jesus’ brothers said to him, “Leave Galilee and go to Judea, so that your disciples there may see the works you do. 4 No one who wants to become a public figure acts in secret. Since you are doing these things, show yourself to the world.” 5 For even his own brothers did not believe in him.

      Did you see that in verse 5? Verse 5 says FOR EVEN HIS OWN BROTHERS DID NOT BELIEVE IN HIM.

    1. Dear 4Holyg.

      Shalom, and welcome to this site.

      I hope and pray that the debate on this site will decent, full of love and grace. There can be no true love, if we do not tell lost souls the truth about the fire of Hell. We have a Heaven to win, and a Hell to escape.

      Who has hurt you?

      Please tell me, and I will take a look into this comment.

      1. Dear ivarfjeld,
        Thank you for the encouragement. You are right; however, I probably should not have made my last comment. I was just upset. I have had time to think about it and do not want to cause any trouble.
        I only made one comment before that one and you can look at it and the reply to it. I just don’t want to point the finger.
        I appreciate your concern and your kindness.

  14. Sueliz,
    That is conjecture and interpretation on your part. You have no authority to even tell me that I am wrong in the way I interpret scripture since in the Protestant religion you have fractured and all think you are an authority on scripture.You fight amongst yourselves on who is right. Everyone can read scripture, but not everyone can interpret it. That is why I will stay with the Church that Jesus founded not Luther or Wesley or Knox.
    As far as the Apocrypha this was in general use during Jesus’ time. It was not added in the council of Trent as you state but was removed by the Protestants. Almost all of the Early Church fathers regarded the Septuagint as the standard form of the Old Testament. The deuterocanoical books were in no way differentiated from the other books in the septuagint, and generally regarded as canonical. St. Augustine thought the Septugint was apostolically sanctioned and inspired, and this was the consensus of the Early Church.
    Many Church Fathers such as St. Irenaeus, st. Cyprian and Tertullian cite these books as Scripture without distinction. others mostly from the East (for example, St. Athanasius, St. Cyril of Jerusalem and St. Gregory Nazianzen) recognized some distinction, but nevertheless still customarily cited the deuterocanonical books as Scripture.
    The Church councils at Hippo(393) and Carthage(397,419) influenced heavily by St. Augustine, listed the deuterocanonical books as Scripture, which was simply an endorsement of what had become the general consensus of the Church in the West and the East. Thus the Council of Trent merely REITERATED in stronger terms what had already been decided eleven and a half centuries earlier, and which have never been seriously challenged until the onset of Protestantism.
    Since these councils also finalized the sixty-six canonical books that all Christians accept, it is quite selective for Protestants to DELETE seven books from this authoritative Canon. By what Authority did Luther have to delete these books???
    The earliest Greek Manuscripts of the Old Testament, such as the Codex Sinaiticus(fourth century) and Codex Alexandrinus(c. 450) include ALL of the Deuterocanonical books mixed in with others and not separated.
    The practice of collecting the Deuterocanonical books into a seperate unit dates no further back than 1520.
    In other words a novel innovation of Protestantism.This is admitted by, for example , the Protestant New English Bible in its “Introduction to the Apocrypha.”
    Protestants following Martin Luther, removed the deuterocanonical books from their Bibles, due to the CLEAR teaching of doctrines that had been repudiated by Protestants, such as prayers for the dead (tob. 12:12;ac15:14;and the intermediaryintercession of Angels(Tob 12:12,15.
    Luther was not content to let the matter rest there, and proceedd to cast doubt on many other books of the Bible that are accepted as Canonical by all Protestants. He considered Job and Jonah mere fables, and Ecclasiastes incoherent and incomplete.He wished that Esther(along with 2 Maccabees) “did not exist”and wanted to “toss it into the Elbe river”
    Luther rejected the New Testament Canon (‘chief books”)of Hebrews and James (“epistle of straw”), Jude and Revelation, and he placed them at the end of his translation, as a New Testament Apocrypha. He regarded them as nonapostolic. On Revelation Luther said “Christ is not taught or known in it.” These opinions are found in Luther’s Prefaces to biblical books, in his German translation of 1552.
    It was about 60 years after Christ that the Jews did not consider it part of the Old Testament.
    Pax Christi
    Pat

    1. Dear Pat.

      Shalom.

      I do not want long Papal booklets published on this site. Please answer my latest comment, about the sexless Jewish Mary.

      Please also answer me:

      The Bible says we should not call a priest or religious teacher for “father”. Why do the Roman Catholic Church call their priests for “father”, and brand the Pope as “The Holy Father”?

      If you do not reply, I will request my co-editors to request you go to other sites with your deceptions.

      1. Jesus himself refers to Abraham as Father Abraham and Paul refers to HIMSELF as our “father in Christ”
        1 Corinthians 4:14-16 (New International Version, ©2011)

        Paul’s Appeal and Warning
        14 I am writing this not to shame you but to warn you as my dear children. 15 Even if you had ten thousand guardians in Christ, you do not have many fathers, for in Christ Jesus I became your father through the gospel. 16 Therefore I urge you to imitate me.

      2. Dear jkbwho07

        1 Corinthians 4:14-16 

        I am writing this not to shame you but to warn you as my dear children. Even if you had ten thousand guardians in Christ, you do not have many fathers, for in Christ Jesus I became your father through the gospel. Therefore I urge you to imitate me.

        This verse has been used to defend RCC doctrine’s, a bid to nullify the words of Jesus.

        Lets take a deeper look:

        Matthew 23:9
        And do not call anyone on earth ‘father,’ for you have one Father, and he is in heaven.

        Do Paul ask his students to address Him as ‘father”?

        Do Paul ask his students to address Him as “The Holy Father?”.

        Paul calls the Corinthians ‘Infants”. They obviously needs someone to raise them in faith.

        1 Corinthians 3:1
        [ The Church and Its Leaders ] Brothers and sisters, I could not address you as people who live by the Spirit but as people who are still worldly—mere infants in Christ.

        Paul explains that he has become “their father” through the gospel, and request them to “Imitate him”. Just like a child imitates their fathers.

        Never, ever do Paul address him self as “Fr. Paul”. It is a sin.

        Paul does not contradict the scriptures. The RCC does.

    2. Dear Pat,

      When the Apostles lived on the earth there was no Vatican, no encyclicals, no Papal bulls, no Canon law. The Apostles traveled into the cities preaching the Word, the Hebrew scriptures and telling all the Good News. They didn’t have a Pope to interpret the Word, or had to read dogma to figure it out. The Holy Spirit leads believers into all truth, not mere men. Praise God.
      John 16:13
      When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.
      Little children accept Jesus when hearing the Gospel without worrying about interpreting scripture through an institution and political state. He’s given truth to the little ones, the poor, the unlearned, the meek and the humble. Amen.
      Blessings on you and yours.
      Sue

  15. What about where the Bible says that the church should stay “one” and “not divide” In other words, take care of the dissent in your fellowship and stay one, do not split. Also the Bible says that the gates of hell shall not prevail against her (the church of Christ) Now being that RCC is the oldest surviving church. And that all protestant churches have been started by men (or even women) one is lead to believe that RCC is the One and Only Church of Christ.

    1. jkbwho07

      Shalom.

      You wrote:

      Now being that RCC is the oldest surviving church.

      My reply:

      This is another big lie of the Vatican.

      The oldest surviving Church is the Thomas Church in Kerala in India. This Church was formed around 50-60 A.D, and is still there. The Thomas Churches pre-dates the Roman Catholic Church by 400 years, and was never under the Papacy in Rome. The Church split after the Catholic invasion of the Indian Ocean in 1498 A.D, some Churches forced in under the Papacy. There are still Thomas Christian Churches that rejects the Bishop of Rome.

      In a similar way, the Assyrian Church of the East was formed before the Roman Empire claimed the end to Paganism, and installed a Pope in the capital of paganism. Neither did this church accept the papacy.

      The first believers were Jews, Messianic baptists that baptized people with full immersion. Such believers were massacred by the anti-Christ in Rome. They have never submitted to the falsehood of the Italian papa, and they are still around. Gentile baptists carry on the legacy of true Christianity all over the World. The gates of Hell shall not prevail against this Church. Amen.

  16. shalom
    i do feel that you protestants and catholics are the same;none have the right to criticize the other,you are both in the same one direction,excuse me,with the people of other religions of the world.your disobedience
    to the holy scriptures brands you antichrist(anti-word)the bible calls The roman catholic the whore Rev17:1-9 and you the protestants the harlots.like mother like the daughter.she came out of her denying some dogmas and added your own.what do you say about the doctrine of trinity and false water baptism in the names of father,son,and the holyghost.even the catholics confirm that the early church baptised in the Name of the Lord Jesus Christ as it is seen in acts 2:38,8:12-16,10:48,19:1-6,when it is clearly stated that salvation is only in His name Acts 4:10-12,Luke24:47,COL3:17.
    We have a lot to say about these.I love you all urging we all go back to the holy bible or be lost as paul said in galatians 1:8-9
    with love

  17. Dear cy7,

    Shalom to you.

    Catholics and Protestants are not the same. Are we saved by Grace through Faith? Are we born again by infant baptism or surrendering our lives to Him?
    Catholics say salvation comes through the sacraments. The bible says “BELIEVE ON HIM AND BE SAVED”, it says nothing about needing 7 physical sacraments to be saved. Amen.
    The difference is day and night.

    Sue

  18. Two quotes from Our Lady of the Roses web site.
    Hard to argue with the source material.

    Jesus – “Better that a man has died in the womb of his mother than to disgrace and to bring discredit to My Mother (Our Lady of the Roses).” (11-22-75)

    “Remember, My children, come to My Mother; for in Her memory of Her human days upon earth, She above all humans created—sinless, without the stigma of sin, a perfect life upon earth without sin, and assumed into Heaven, body and spirit—She above all can direct you because She is your Mother; She is the Queen of Heaven, and the Mother of every human being upon earth.” – Jesus, August 14, 1979

  19. Dear Eric,

    Welcome to this site. Thank you for your comments.

    Why do you believe ‘private revelations’ and ignore the Word of God?
    The “visionary” was speaking to demons. These “messages” are in complete contradiction to scripture. Scripture is inerrant, ‘messages’ from people claiming to talk to an entity is not something to trust in. Trust in the scriptures which lead you to truth.

    Sue

  20. what we need is, go back to the Word of the Lord.we need to start first with the Acts 2:”38-42.for according to 1peter 3:21 baptism saves us just like water saved people in the time of noah.
    shalom

  21. Do you love the Lord Jesus more than she loves her Son?Did you give him your blood in the incarnation for your salvation or St Mary did? Did you get a sword in your heart upon His suffering? Maybe you put that sword?Can St Mary save you? Can St Mary cleanse you? Can you be saved without a godly repentance and going directly to the Lord Jesus Christ bowing on your knees and kissing His feet? All of you are right in a way or another but do not go for the wrong extremes.May God bless you all.

  22. “Queen of Heaven” is a title that goes back to waaay before Mary ever walked the earth. It is the pagan goddess that has many names—and the pagans who worshiped “her” presided over the slaughter of God’s people from antiquity. “She” is the Whore of Babylon and this fake “Mary” will be a rallying point of the one-world religion that is coming. The REAL, Jewish Mary would be quite offended to have her name used in this way. Maranatha.

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