The Popes claim Popes are God’s

“The Pope and God are the same, so he has all power in Heaven and earth”.

The Vatican claim the Pope is the replacement of Jesus on Earth, and the “Holy Father”.

This is a claim” Pope Pius V, quoted in Barclay, Chapter XXVII, p. 218, “Cities Petrus Bertanous”.
Pope Pius V was Pope from 1566 to 1572.

Pope Boniface VIII came 18th of November 1302 with a bull named Unam Sanctam.

 Therefore, of the one and only Church there is one body and one head, not two heads like a monster; that is, Christ and the Vicar of Christ, Peter and the successor of Peter, …

 Therefore whoever resists this power thus ordained by God, resists the ordinance of God [Rom 13:2], unless he invent like Manicheus two beginnings, which is false and judged by us heretical, since according to the testimony of Moses, it is not in the beginnings but in the beginning that God created heaven and earth [Gen 1:1].

Furthermore, we declare, we proclaim, we define that it is absolutely necessary for salvation that every human creature be subject to the Roman Pontiff. (Unam Sanctam in English and Latin)

Pope Pius V in his bull Regnans in Excelsis, deposing England’s Queen Elisabeth in 1570, made that argument in the following claim:

He that reigneth on high, to whom is given all power in heaven and earth, has committed one holy Catholic and apostolic Church, outside of which there is no salvation, to one alone upon earth, namely to Peter, the first of the apostles, and to Peter’s successor, the pope of Rome, to be by him governed in fullness of power. Him alone He has made ruler over all peoples and kingdoms, to pull up, destroy, scatter, disperse, plant and build, so that he may preserve His faithful people (knit together with the girdle of charity) in the unity of the Spirit and present them safe and spotless to their Saviour.

Source: Bible

My comment:

Martin Luther belled the Pope as an Antichrist. For many reasons.

1. No man can claim to the be replacement of Jesus on Earth, the “Vicar of Christ”. The Holy Spirit is the only replacement for Jesus on Earth.

2. No man can claim to be “the Holy Father”. Only God the Father is the “Holy Father”.

3. No man can claim to be infallible in matters of correct interpretation of scripture. Only God is infallible.

4. No man can claim to have the authority to exclude people from the Kingdom of heaven, if they do not believe in his doctrines, power and authority.

The Bible is crystal clear that a man with such a theology will appear.

 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4

Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God’s temple, proclaiming himself to be God.

Jesus also warned about false Messiah’s appearing, trying to deceive the very elect.

 Matthew 24:24
For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect—if that were possible.

You can not accuse your pastor, nor your priests, the day you face judgment because your accepted an antichrist as a Christian leader.  You have the Bible, can read, and your have a direct link to Jesus. You can ask Him questions, and He do sure what to guide you on the right path.

Written by Ivar

124 thoughts on “The Popes claim Popes are God’s

  1. Because they did not want to retain God in their hearts, they’d rather have the ‘gold of the world’, power in the world and the preeminence before Men! This is was and will always be a Demonic Spirit that wants to lead many away from The Lord Jesus Christ, for they know their time is short before HE return. When those who refuse to repent and turn to the Lord Jesus Christ, these demons will forever ”mock” all that believed them as they also for eternity torment them!

  2. The Popes claim Popes are God’s It is a lie.
    You are twisting the words of both popes and God’s.

    I strongly believe the Pope has the authority for God’s church on earth right now.

    If you say NO, then point who is holding the authority of Christ’s church now? I want to follow them
    Because Jesus gave this to one person Peter. not to all the disciples.

    1. The authority of Christ’s church is with Christ. The keys are with everybody that preaches the Gospel. The “pope” is a satanist. Every “pope” is a satanist.

      1. It is better to show the scripture or any doctrine for your claim (The keys are with everybody that preaches the Gospel.) So that I too follow.

      2. Andy you seem to miss one of the fundamental tenets of Christianity, and that is love isn’t it? Or do I not inderstand the bible at all?

      3. It is a fact, Greg, that you don’t understand the Bible at all. Love must have truth (1 Corinthians 13:6). If it is not true, then it is not love.

        I don’t want your “love”. I have Jesus’ love, which always contains truth.

      4. @Andy:
        Remember my friend, as before the time Jesus became betrayed. He gave us His “OWN” commandment: “LOVE ONE ANOTHER, AS I LOVE YOU, YOU SHALL LOVE EACH OTHER”.

        AND His commandment is of God the Father, agree?. You claim that you have Jesus’ love but what kind of love do you have? The love of exposing people’s weakness? The love of judging people’s faults? The love of accusing people’s sins?

        Think of yourself. Do you dare to beat your chest and say before God that “I AM FULL WITH YOUR DOCTRINE AND I AM UNDERSTAND ALL OF YOUR WILL, YOUR PLAN, YOUR WORD. I HAVE NO WEAKNESSES IN MY DOCTRINE SO THAT I MAY JUDGE PEOPLE THAT THEY MIGHT NOT UNDERSTAND YOU BUT ONLY ME”. Say it and you do not have to read the rest of my message.

        To me, Jesus’ love is forgiving people’ fault. Look not at their sins but their good will and works. Do not judge for not become judged. Be humbled always for in the last day we will be exalted. Be aware of claiming somebody’s weaknesses, we have also.

        You and me and the Catholic Church are all sinners on this earth. You have your sins, i have my sins, the Pope has his own, the priest’s and whoever’s. We are all equal to each other.

        But Jesus had given the authority of the preaching his gospel TO the apostles. AND the Catholic Church is their successor. Believe in the apostles AS we believe in Jesus for he who believe in the one whom I sent that he who believe in Me. Obey God’s word.

        Even the apostles were all sinners. BUT Jesus had gave them His permission to teach His people, to take care of, to be the comforters, to forgive men’s sins (Not by man’s power but God who had given them His authority), to be the leaders of the Church (See ACT, who was leading Christ’s children in His name? WHO?)

        You can say to me that: “According to the Bible that only Christ said “I have been given the authority over heaven and earth and under earth” AND your conclusion is only Christ has His only own power. Remember this, when your boss runs the company. By his authority over the company, he can pass it to you when he is absent. You got me?

        You may say that: “God is not the boss who runs the company. He is almighty, so even Christ had been came back to Father’s hands. He still can run His Church by His power and authority”. So i say to you. If God was as you say. He would have run His Church with the Holy Spirit alone. Piss off the sinners, they are not worthy to teach God’s wisdom to people. And no more baptism, no more the apostles, no more the visual things that people may trust in. Because Christ can do everything ALONE AS YOU SAID. But my friend, even thou Christ can do everything on his own will BUT His will was to have his children become the fishers of men in the guidance of the Holy Spirit. You got me, again?

        So, the Catholic Church has Her faults, agree? As i said, we are all sinners and we are Christ’s children. Our job is to forgive each other’s sins so the Father may forgive your sins. Whatever bad the Catholic Church did, now the sins are all in the past. Can you forgive their sins by yourself? Can you look at the Church in the present, how good is Her?


        You may think: “Devils helped the Catholic Church”. Wow, do the devils now know how to support God?

        Our Catholic’ doctrine never teach you to expose someone’s sins FOR CHRIST’S SAKE.


      5. Sinner2010,

        You said: But Jesus had given the authority of the preaching his gospel TO the apostles. AND the Catholic Church is their successor.

        My comment: Jesus gave the authority for his word to be preached, BUT the catholic church IS NOT THEIR SUCCESSOR. Jesus gave authority for the TRUE WORD his word to be preached, and the popes and catholics have twisted the Word of God, to suit their demonic idol worship of statues and bones. And the Word of God is clear, whether you like it or not, unless I AND U, AND EVERYONE does not repent from theirs sins, they will not see the kingdom of heaven.

        1 Corinthians 6:9-11
        Don’t you realize that those who do wrong will not inherit the Kingdom of God? Don’t fool yourselves. Those who indulge in sexual sin, or who worship idols, or commit adultery, or are male prostitutes, or practice homosexuality, or are thieves, or greedy people, or drunkards, or are abusive, or cheat people-none of these will inherit the Kingdom of God. Some of you were once like that. But you were cleansed; you were made holy; you were made right with God by calling on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

      6. Sinner1210, the catholic church is a demonic thing, and every “pope” holds the office of a satanist.

        Love tells the truth. And false teachers are to be exposed and avoided, the Bible says it.

        So you wasted your typing fingers. Catholicism is evil. I hate evil. I love Jesus.

      7. @ Andy and Gloria
        He who has ears, let him hear.
        The world will hate you. It hates me first.
        You will be rejected as they rejected me.
        Do not through things that holy to the pigs and dogs for they will come back and bite you after trampled on them.

        You know what i mean…

        I still remember these things when i am typing this last message to you: “go studying first before talking”

      8. Sinner1210, the world does hate true believers in Jesus Christ. That’s why the catholic cult murdered so many Christians. Catholic is not Christian

      9. I will speak no more in order to defend the Catholic Church for the our kingdom does not belong to this world. You may accuse anything on this earth i wont give a glance to. Beware the last day, true christian called by yourself.

      10. Sinner2010,

        It is proven catholics do not follow the Word of God. For example, God tells us he detests idol worship. Yet, you and your catholic followers, kiss dead bones, and pray to statues that can do nothing for you.

        You do not need to defend them. what you need to do is repent.

        1 John 5:21 Little children, keep yourselves from idols.

        Jonah 2:8 Those who pay regard to vain idols forsake their hope of steadfast love.

        Colossians 3:5 Put to death therefore what is earthly in you: sexual immorality, impurity, passion, evil desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry.

      11. @ Gloria. I dont mean to defend my Church not by Her weaknesses but the Truth which is contained in. I am loyal to the Catholic Church which was founded by Jesus Christ.
        I will repent my sins of course but i will not repent for being a Catholic member.
        As i said before. And i can not reason with you while you are not hearing. You have the internet now, have you ever try to search these key words:”why does Catholic have statues?” or “Catholic’s view of Mary” or anything you want to.
        We had already answered all of your accusion for a long time ago. Yet you have not listen to it.

        Anything bad you thought about Catholic was from your own attention and yes, you did not understand us as Jesus Christ himself.
        You can live with your own vision. God will judge you. And if you think its right. You will stick with it. But beware. Watch yourself 1st before accuse somebody. You are no better than us

      12. Dear Sinner 1210


        You wrote:

        @ Gloria. I dont mean to defend my Church not by Her weaknesses but the Truth which is contained in. I am loyal to the Catholic Church which was founded by Jesus Christ.

        My reply:

        Let us take this point by point:

        1. I dont mean to defend my Church.

        I guess God the Almighty is able to defend Him self, and also His Church on the face of the Earth.

        2. not by Her weaknesses but the Truth which is contained in.

        The truth is not contained in any Church. The truth is found in the Bible. The World of God is standing firm in the Heavens. No man can change the Scriptures, without bringing a curse down on his own head.

        3. I am loyal to the Catholic Church which was founded by Jesus Christ.

        You might be loyal to the Catholic Church. But that will surely not save you. You have to be loyal to Jesus, and obey His commands.

        The very idea that Jesus founded the Catholic Church is one of the blunt lies that have been told millions of times. But it is still a lie.

        The first believers in the Messiah were all Jews living in Israel. Peter was a Jew, a sinner and a married man. To claim this Jew to be the first Pope, is a product of lies. Systematically been told to deceive people, and presented as truth and “Petrine theology”.

        Only people who are blind, insane, or bluntly God-mockers can believe in such stuff.

        Please renounce this evil. You need to repent, or you will surely perish.

      13. Catholicism teaches a works-based doctrine that can’t save anybody, so catholicism is from satan, not from Jesus.

      14. Dear Andy.


        You wrote:

        Catholicism teaches a works-based doctrine that can’t save anybody, so catholicism is from satan, not from Jesus.

        My comment:

        It is easy to explain this, if people are willing to believe and obey the Word of God. Jesus has paid for all sins. People will be saved today, if they are willing to submit to the truth.

        Copy-cat “Jesus” can not save anyone. The “Jesus” preached in the Vatican is a copy.

      15. @ivarfjeld:
        You have your points and i have mine. I wont say who is gonna wrong or right, but i let the decision yours.

        Above everything, i want to ask you: “who or what are you can judge me that i will surely perish? What authority that was given to you?” Is that the word from “Christian” which you and your friends called of yourself, Mr. “Christians”?

        I will tell you this basic knowledge when you truly follow Jesus: love one another and do not judge but forgive. Jesus teaches us not to condemn anyone. What did you do? Jesus teaches you to be humbled. What are you?

        Ok, lets back to your comments:

        I will follow yours:
        1/ “I guess God the Almighty is able to defend Him self, and also His Church on the face of the Earth.”

        – That is why i do not have to defend the Catholic Church but still She stood firmly for 2012 years and forever more. (according to the Bible. i am sure that Mr. Christian knows where to find it in the Bible. Well, you can say the Church which Jesus mentioned was our Faith. Well seem likes it does not sound familiar with the word “rock” or “peter”. Try to think logically: rock – build – church is more logical than rock – build – faith?)

        2/ “The truth is not contained in any Church. The truth is found in the Bible. The World of God is standing firm in the Heavens. No man can change the Scriptures, without bringing a curse down on his own head.”

        – Remember who did Jesus Christ send out to the world for the preaching job. Did Jesus Christ sent out a book? The Scripture which was mentioned in the Bible (hint: it is from the letters) was the Old Testament. (Are you still reading?). And please when you find the verse which mentioned the Scripture in the Bible, try to read a little below. I ask you: Do you find the world “profitable”? When you found it, try to read that verse and figure out by yourself: Did the Scripture ALONE teach us or both the apostles and the Scripture?

        – More over, the truth in the Catholic Church that i mentioned was the truth of the authority of the Catholic Church. Again, please check the Bible and be sure about that Jesus Christ gave His apostles the authority to teach and to forgive IN THE GUIDANCE OF THE HOLY SPIRIT. AND HE WHO DOES NOT LISTEN TO HIS APOSTLES, HE WHO DOES NOT LISTEN TO JESUS CHRIST.

        – Do you want to change my sentence into “HE WHO DOES NOT UNDERSTAND THE BIBLE ALONE, HE WHO DOES NOT UNDERSTAND JESUS CHRIST.”???????????????????????

        3/ “You might be loyal to the Catholic Church. But that will surely not save you. You have to be loyal to Jesus, and obey His commands.

        The very idea that Jesus founded the Catholic Church is one of the blunt lies that have been told millions of times. But it is still a lie.

        The first believers in the Messiah were all Jews living in Israel. Peter was a Jew, a sinner and a married man. To claim this Jew to be the first Pope, is a product of lies. Systematically been told to deceive people, and presented as truth and “Petrine theology”.

        Only people who are blind, insane, or bluntly God-mockers can believe in such stuff.

        Please renounce this evil. You need to repent, or you will surely perish.”

        Be sure that you are reading.

        – As i am loyal to Jesus Christ so i am loyal to His Church – the Catholic Church. The Church wont come first before Jesus. I can not fully obey his commandments. Can you? For i am a sinner and i will break His commandments BUT i merely know how to CONFESS, to TURN BACK, to REPENT, to DETEST. That is the Catholic Church teachings, God’s.

        – The Catholic Church was truly founded by Jesus Christ and it is now a lie. For Peter was the first Pope and his successors are the leaders of the Catholic Church.

        – Peter was the first Pope was not a lie. Peter is a sinners, so be the Popes. And please Mr. Christian, find for me the verse which mentioned Jesus Christ COMES TO CALL THE SINNERS, NOT THE RIGHTEOUS. Jesus SENDS the most holiness the Holy Spirit to those He has chosen for their guidance. THAT IS WHY THE APOSTLES – SINNERS CAN BE WORTHY TO TEACH JESUS’ GOSPEL.

        – Have you ever questioned yourself that you are going in the right way? In the true way of worshiping God by fully understand His Bible? In the very true way that you denied the Catholic Church (the apostles’ successor) by not hearing to them as you are not hearing to Jesus Christ???

        – Only God knows who is right or wrong, who is evil or not and condemn them by the Heavenly Judgement. Again, what are you Mr.Christian? while you are judging your kind with your human nature judgement.



      16. – The Catholic Church was truly founded by Jesus Christ and it is NOW a lie. For Peter was the first Pope and his successors are the leaders of the Catholic Church.

        correct: – The Catholic Church was truly founded by Jesus Christ and it is NOT a lie. For Peter was the first Pope and his successors are the leaders of the Catholic Church.

      17. Sinner,

        I’ve said before and it seems to get lost on you folks. How did Peter get to be the first Pope when Paul’s ministry was to the Gentiles and Peter’s to the Jews. Galations 2:7-8

        “7 On the contrary, they saw that I had been entrusted with the task of preaching the gospel to the Gentiles,[a] just as Peter had been to the Jews.[b] 8 For God, who was at work in the ministry of Peter as an apostle to the Jews, was also at work in my ministry as an apostle to the Gentiles.”

      18. Sinner2010,

        That Peter was the first pope is a horrible lie. Peter did believed in Christ completely, and did not twist the Word of God around as your “popes” have done.

        Your comment: Remember who did Jesus Christ send out to the world for the preaching job. Did Jesus Christ sent out a book?

        My comment: 2 Timothy 3: 16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,

        did you read that correctly? All scripture is GOD BREATHED.

        You have no basis or proof of any of your ridiculous claims of the catholic church. You are being deceived, and are spreading the deception. Repent, for the time of Christ is near!

    2. Oldman, When Jesus departed He told everyone to wait and the Comforter would be sent. That person is the Holy Spirit. He did not tell Peter to take control and get on with business, He told them to wait for the one that would lead, empower, comfort. Read the book of Acts and learn that even Peter needed the Holy Spirit. The idea of the pope as God on earth is a lie!.

      1. The Holy Spirit will not work on the unfaithful ones and He will not come into the chosen ones.
        The Holy Spirit guided and Peter obeyed. The Holy Spirit guides and the Pope obeys.
        Jesus Christ did tell Peter to take care of His sheeps, Did not He?
        The Pope is God, who said that? Was he your fellow who said that? The one is same like you? The one has the problems in his doctrine same like you?
        The Pope is NOT God but His Vicar.

        That’s all, i am out.

      2. Sinner1210,

        God specifically states, do not praise statues or bones.

        Colossians 3:5 Put to death therefore what is earthly in you: sexual immorality, impurity, passion, evil desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry.

        Yet, you choose to bow to things that are either possessed, or can do nothing for you. You go against what God has commanded.

        That the Holy Spirit guides the Pope has got to be a ridiculous statement. For the Holy Spirit guides true believers of Jesus, not one’s who are sinners and call themselves “the holy father.” There is and always were one Holy Father, and that is GOD.

        Revelation 20:10 And the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

    3. This has to be one of the better comments made on this site. More accurate anyway. Just out of curiosity, wasn’t Jesus supposed to be bringing love peace and harmony? If so why does this site preach so much hate? Catholics I can understand considering what they did historically. Islam because they have a different religion? Judaism? The same? Pagans? The same?

      Is it then that anyone who is different is a figure of hate? Didn’t hitler teach anyone anything? Why can’t people learn from the past? Pure blind prejudice and it’s a vicious self repeating cycle. What happened to converting people through love? I thought that was the point of Christianity? But when we give in to our base emotions and teach the religion of hate, do you really think you are preaching Gods’ love for mankind?

      Or maybe I have totally misunderstood what Jesus came to earth for. I don’t know, what I do know is that it is very unsettling reading people teaching hatred of our fellow man and the total intolerance of another man’s beliefs.

      Anyway like I said earlier, this is one of your better articles.

      1. What you call “hate”, I call defending the truth.

        Lies are hate. The pope and catholicism are full of lies, so the pope and catholicism are ministers of hate and satan.

      2. Andy you really need to get out of your bubble man. Every word you preach is vindictive and hateful, look in the mirror before you judge anyone. The bible does after all warn not to judge others lest you be judged yourself. So if you are a christians as you profess think of that.

      3. I know the Bible, and I know that discernment of doctrine is not judging. So I recommend that you study the Bible at some point in your life, you will learn much.

        Name-calling belongs on the elementary playground. If you feel that name-calling will do anything to me, you are wasting your time.

        Feel free to call me “hater”, “bigot”, “loser”, etc etc. It will do nothing to me. I have Jesus, and His Word, the Bible, and your words are about as worrisome as a cloudy day.

    4. Hi Oldman, correct me if I am wrong, but didn’t the pope claim to be infallible in matters of the faith? And if so he puts himself above the rest of mankind. A noble theory maybe, but then you get the Borgas popes, now they were a rotten bunch in any mans books, they bought their position in the papcy with wheel barrows of gold didn’t they? Now tell me how infallible they were? And please be honest Oldman. So please Oldman, I don’t believe the pope has the right to claim to be infallible. And if he is not infallible, how can he then direct matters of faith? Just asking Oldman, just asking. Remember the Borgas before replying.

      1. “And though the walls may develop cracks, the foundation is solid. Will you not remain and patch these cracks, My children?…”

        “Peter was My first Pope and your first Pope, and as all others who followed him, they must be accepted. Be they weak or noble, be they with sanctity or unholiness, they must be accepted and followed….
        “I ask you not to judge another. You may counsel, you may give your viewpoints, but no violence must be used. And I do not want schism. I do not want any interference from separated brethren in My Church. They must be brought back. Convert the unbeliever! You must remain united with Rome.
        “The gates of hell shall not prevail against My Church, for a cleansing will come about and all that is rotten will fall! And My Church shall be restored to its former glory!” – Jesus, June 9, 1979

  3. According to recent alert messages given to Maria Divine Mercy, the NEXT POPE may be the FALSE PROPHET !.
    This Doesn’t necessarily mean that the current pope is evil.

    1. Oldman,

      The current pope IS evil. He spreads lies, allows people to praise statues, kiss bones. He has the chance to rise, and say the Word of God is the complete truth, repent from the lying, repent from the worshipping of bones. Yet, he continues to lead many to the wide gates of hell.

      1. Gloria

        Popes are the wolf in sheep clothes deceiving God’s chosen people, It simple boring that Oldman is here to defend papal church,
        Outrageous Claims Made For The
        Not only are outlandish claims,
        such as those above, made
        regarding the authority of the
        pope, but he is addressed by
        various terms (Supreme Pontiff,
        Holy Father, etc.) which belong
        only to God. No such terms were
        given to a mere man in the holy
        Scriptures. The term “Holy Father”
        is used only once in God’s word. It
        is used by Jesus in John 17:11 as
        He prayed to God the Father. For a
        mere man to assume the authority
        and titles which belong only to
        God, is surely the height of
        arrogance and blasphemy. If not,
        why not?
        1. The New York Catholic
        Catechism, under: Pope,
        says, “The Pope takes the
        place of Jesus Christ on
        earth…by divine right the
        pope has supreme and full
        power in faith and morals
        over each and every pastor
        and his flock. He is the true
        Vicar of Christ, the head of
        the entire church, the father
        and teacher of all Christians
        He is the infallible ruler, the
        founder of dogmas, the
        author of and the judge of
        councils; the universal ruler
        of truth, the arbiter of the
        world, the supreme judge of
        heaven and earth, the judge
        of all, being judged by one,
        God himself on earth.”

  4. What arrogance this man has, but he is no match for the real God and will very soon find out he is not the replacement of god on earth!!!

  5. Every “pope” is a satanist. All who follow him, are in the depths of satan, having received the doctrines of man and the continuation of the devil’s doctrines from babylon.

    1. Andy what are the doctrines of babylon? Humour me here a little will you. It sounds very, how shall I put it, profound!!! But please get these doctrines for me! I haven’t yet come across the doctrines of Babylon so it will be interesting reading I am sure.

      1. The pontiff, aka pontifus maximus, was a title from pagan Rome, and they stole it from the babylonian false religion.

      2. Babylonian false religion, like I said earlier it sounds very profound, but what were its general beliefs andy? Stop ducking the question and answer it lucidly please. Can you do that Andy? Not just words but some proper facts? Please don’t insult me by quoting drivel that cannot be verified either. Thanks

      3. Greg,

        Why are you here? If you are not inviting witches to talk, you are defending catholics.

        Again, are you really hear to learn the Word of God, or are you lhere to try and cause confusions with your posts?

      4. Andy where is the information/ documentation for this drivel of yours? I did ask you to give me something I can read up, not just hearsay. I think you are making up a wonderful story here, I thought a commandment was that thou shalt not lie? So if you are a christian, think of this before answering!!!

      5. Greg, I owe you nothing. If you don’t believe it, then don’t believe it. I won’t care. Go worship your “pope”.

      6. ivarfjeld, thank you 🙂 May the Lord Jesus bless you richly as you continue to serve Him on your blog. Know that your blog is visited by people like me around the world every day, and we are encouraged and edified by your stand for Biblical truth. The Lord bless you! 🙂

  6. Hells fire will be hot and liers shall have a place in it..anyone that says there Jesus.and there not is evil he is pure and holy and died for are sins there is know other…

    1. Aaaah Gloria I seek answers and truths, and I will find them, somewhere somehow. I just would like honest straight forward answers hey, not brash indefensible statements. After all isn’t christianity the enlightened path? So yes Gloria I am seeking truth, not just a single persons point of view. Actually if you read my posts properly, you would see in fact that I don’t defend the catholics either. But when criticising the catholics, a person who is a protestant has to remember that their own religion came down through the catholics even if it is distorted. You remember the crusades gloria? The catholics led those, didn’t they? Mostly for money if the truth to be told, nothing to do with faith as such catholics like I said before are basically mithraists using different names. Then again some schools of thought suggest that paul himself was a roman spy. I haven’t been able to verify or disprove that Gloria, my point is that religion and dogma are extremely tricky. Now you like quotes so let me quote revelations to you, a verse that terrifies me “rev 22:18 I, John, solemnly warn everyone who hears the prophetic words of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to his punishment the plagues described in this book.19 and if anyone takes anything away from the prophetic words of this book, God will take away from him his share of the fruit of the tree of life and of the Holy City, which are described in this book.”

      Now Gloria I take this to mean that the entire bible is to be read and learnt from, not just the bits that suit ones temperament. Secondly I had to question the bible itself, is it the correct bible? Why is the catholic bible different to the protestant bible etc? Now the first bible compiled was done by the catholics etc, you do remember what I quoted before from Laurence Gardner don’t you? If not I can always post that again just as a reminder. Now my next question was that if the catholics compiled the bible and were wrong, how could the protestants be right if they had cut out some books from the bible? So in essence to be a christian, according to that bible verse I quoted you, the first thing to do is to make sure you have the correct bible wouldn’t you say? Now your friend reckons that nkjv etc is correct, and this is generally accepted as being so, and being the most accurate. BUT that doesn’t take away the fact that the general order of books in the bible, as well as what was to be printed and what not, all originates from the catholics. The catholics added to the bible didn’t they? Yet all bibles today, carry that bit of added literature. You do remember what I wrote about that don’t you gloria? If not I can re quote it for you. My point is simple, is the bible correctly compiled? If not why not? Surely people speaking about Chroist should have known him in life? Let’s face it Gloria, if someone claims to have visions of Christ we tend to call that person deluded don’t we? Anyway I hope this answers your question to your satisfaction, I seek truth and will find it sooner or later.


      1. Just to interject here, why do you say the KJV is most correct or accurate? Chase down the history of KJV and you’ll find that, no, it isn’t a spiritually inspired translation. In fact, the King James commission was to write a common language translation that would please both the Conformists and the Puritans at the time. The translation comes from the Vulgate and has made up words in it. Case in point, the KJV says God created evil ( Isaiah 45:7), The fact is that there isn’t even a Hebrew word for evil. The correct word is rah or wickedness, with the Hebrew inferences towards calamity, travails and crisis. Then take the route of old English to modern and it really falls apart. The KJV is a doctrine bible, so you kind of ignorantly answered your own question.

      2. Greg,

        I have been in the presence of Christ. Jesus has spoken to me. You want to call me deluded? I’ll happily be deluded if it means Jesus is near me, until we are together forever with him.

        That’s the difference between me and you. I have found the truth in Jesus Christ. You have the truth right in front of your face, and yet you are blinded to it. It amazes me that you are ready to believe lies, then that only Jesus Christ can save you. It isn’t complicated. Jesus loves you, he wants you to come to him. It is the most amazing feeling knowing Christ cares for you that much.

        I feel sorry for you. You are what they call in the bible, hardened hearts, or always seeking something you will never find, because you’d rather believe in the lie.

        God Bless,


    2. Lol andy your very reply and the manner in which you said it answer my question that I put to you, you have no idea of what you are talking about and are a liar unless you prove otherwise, which goes againsty the teachings of the bible doesn’t it? Thou shalt not lie andy, remember that. Liars have no place in heaven remember?

      1. Not really fingers, now you throw the entire debate even more open, if the kjv which most people regard as being the most accurate, is incorrect as you say, it means that there is no bible that is accurate at all and it makes my point even more. The kjv is a translation, we all know that. It is supposed to be the most accurate translation. Even other members in this site have said that. Now you say it is not the rihht bible to follow etc. It doesn’t answer any question, what it in fact does is make my questions even more relevant, which bible does one begin to follow? Your statement highlights the entire question about which bible to follow and shbows your ignorance in thje matter as well. Dean on another commentary was claiming the kjv as the correct bible, amd dean does make a lot of comments here. So then he also needs enlightenment. Isn’t amazing how a person asks a question, and receives totally different questions, from the same group of believers as well?

      2. Hi Gloria, who gave you the right to judge me? You have been touched and feel you are in the presence of God? I am extremely glad for you. Now you say I am what is known as hard hearted? I dunno about that lady, I have just walked a very different road to you is my guess. I have learnt to try and be tolerant of others, and to try and have empathy for them to better understand them. It is not easy doing that, but it is what I pray for every day, it is also why I seek God so fervently, so please do not judge what you do not know you are in fact judging. Afford me the courtesy of seeking the truth I am looking for without judgement.

      3. Greg,

        To tell you that I have been in the presence of God, and have felt his love for me, means I would want you to feel the same thing. It means that I know Christ loves you too. To lead you in the right direction isn’t judging you. What I’m telling you is once you found Christ, there is no need to search anymore.

    1. Dean kevin heyes 28th october was writing about the kjv of the bible being 95% accurate etc finger, I see you also commented on that forum. It was the forum about paganism in the catholic church. Now if mr heyes is wrong, as you have claimed with your previous text, he is also in need of enlightenment as much as I because I thought in fact he knew his facts, even if rather grudgingly on my part.

      You see Gloria I seek the truth and what one person tells me I do take heed of. But its really confusing when your regulars here all give me different information. Do you begin to understand my confusion now Gloria? Finding the truth when everyone has their own version of it is extremely difficult. So I hope you see I am trying to learn.

    2. Hi gdfinger you have made a common mistake ! the Vaudois old latin Vulgate ,a highlly acurate ,and known amoungst early Christians to be GODS preserved WORDS was used in the KJV….. .however the later Roman catholic latin vulgate wrongly mixed words from the perverted Alexandrian Greek Old testoment!…. you see gdfinger when it comes down to the truth and indisputable facts the Roman catholics have at every turn tried to keep GODS breathed WORDS from the people by blatantly corupting our Bible… the KJV correctly used the word evil in ISAIAH 45:7 ….evil used in this verse translates as “times of distress” as words in ancient hebrew spoken by GOD had maney meanings depending on the contex of what was being said .

      1. Hey Dean it gives me great pleasure in actually agreeing with some one on this forum. You never did answer me from the pagan area, where in fact does your bible end its mark gospel? Just asking hey. And couldn’t agree more about the catholics perverting the bible for their own ends, mostly to sideline women. That’s why I ask where mark ends in your bible.

      2. LOL, funny how you answer the question hoping to upbraid me, yet the answer proves my point. From what you’ve stated, you would then need a translation of the KJV to figure out what it says. As I pointed out, the commission for that translation was to create a doctrinal bible, not an accurate translation. They, at the time lacked reliable documents we presently have, also. You, yourself, had to ADD a translation of the word evil because the contemporary meaning of evil is a matter of the heart, not disaster, calamity, etc.

        Definition of EVIL
        a : morally reprehensible : sinful, wicked
        b : arising from actual or imputed bad character or conduct
        a archaic : inferior
        b : causing discomfort or repulsion : offensive
        c : disagreeable
        a : causing harm : pernicious
        b : marked by misfortune : unlucky

        Today, tornadoes, hurricanes, earthquakes are called acts of God. How is it that the secular can rightly apply the Word of God yet the religious can’t? This word came up because someone was trying to convince me that God created evil. Doctrine created on a word is wrong. So, no, the KJV isn’t the God breathed word you say, as you said it. The total reliance of the KJV is the root of many heresies as much as the RCC or Greek Orthodox. Taking the above example, the NIV says, ” I bring prosperity and create disaster,”. Which is more accurate? Reading it straight forward or having to have you explain it, like having to go to an RCC priest to explain it?

        To answer Greg, you need to be Berean about your studies. A parallel bible is invaluable. It’s clear you have Internet so Biblegateway is very handy, they have some 35 translations, though some are clearly apostate (post 1984 NIV begin using socially acceptable words as opposed to accurate words). They even have the Orthodox Jewish Bible to find the actual Hebrew word. KJV is handy because the Strong’s Concordance is built on the KJV and in the Strong’s Concordance you can often get the Greek or Hebrew to look up.

        So Greg, take what we say, then check it out. Iron sharpens iron, and I’ll be the first to say I’ve been wrong, or God has revealed to me a subtle difference. I won’t know everything until I’m dead and with the Lord. When challenged, go back and see where you you got the notion and weigh it in God’s Word and the Holy Spirit.

        I hope that helps a bit for you,


      3. It simply apears futile to continue this debate if the pair of you mix up the KJV ,NKJV ,NIV in your arguments,…., as first I have to work out your error …..,then explain it ….,and then answer your post ….., it is also quiet clear that you Greg do not want honest debate, as this queastion you ask ? where does the book of MARK end in my Bible ! I have made it perfectly clear I only use the KJV and if you are as knowledgeable as you make youself out to be, you would know full well the KJV containes the” disputed 9-20 verses” and writely so !…. ,these verses were not in the catholic recycled Codex Vaticanus manucsripts ,thus left out of some of there bible interpretations… and not to down play the role of women ? let me guess… you got that conspirscy theory off the shelf in your local bookshop ! ..OH yes… for the record… GOD did not create evil, but HE sure as hell is going to destroy it……..

      4. Dean,
        I’m not sure what you mean about mixing up NIV, KJV and NKJV. I hate to break it to you but my NIV has those verses you cling so dearly to, but with the caveat, ” the most reliable early manuscripts and other ancient witnesses do not have Mark 16:9-20″.

        I’m not sure what your problem is with that, given that historical and archeological discoveries have brought about more reliable manuscripts than those available to King James men. I need to note that the version I use for my daily reading is meant to be an accurate translation, not a doctrinal bible like the KJV, so the translation teams were a cross section of faiths, unlike the KJV who were all Anglican clergy. “Further, the King gave the translators instructions designed to guarantee that the new version would conform to the ecclesiology of the Church of England.”

        What you do seem to have is a problem with doing a thorough search of the scriptures in anything but the KJV. Perhaps it’s because your faith dogma gets challenged. Many doctrinal dogmas fall apart without the specific words from KJV and that’s a problem. You don’t really want to debate the issue, you simply want everyone to accept your position unequivocally, not unlike the RCC folks that comment here. And that’s a problem.


      5. gdfinger…….its this simple, when a Christian reads and studies a ” bible” which was based on manoscripts, binned by early Christians because they knew them to be flawed and then revised by Wescott and Hort, two men comissioned by the catholics who where of the opinion Mary was equal to JESUS ,beleived in Darwism ,and professed they spoke to spirits ,well that makes you hypocritical Now being a Christian should you not study a Bible kept pure by GOD thru his early church and beleived to be by most Christians, HIS BREATHED WORDS……is it not my duty as a follower of JESUS to bring this to your attention ? Understand if you will …I dont belong to any religeon or church or denomination and never have, I have never even stood before a preacher or preist , so I dont understand what this dogma is or what it has to do with the truth,so you carry on with your roman catholic bible if you wish its your choice .

      6. Dean,
        “Now being a Christian should you not study a Bible kept pure by GOD thru his early church and beleived to be by most Christians, HIS BREATHED WORDS……is it not my duty as a follower of JESUS to bring this to your attention ? ”

        You seem to be pretty circular here. You appear to be defending the KJV against some catholic bible in your discussion with me, though I’m not talking about any catholic bible. So, you want me to take as authoritative, over a more accurate contemporary translation, your KJV, which was translated by those that brought divorce into the church. For all their plethora of sins, at least the catholics didn’t do that.

        You keep bringing up the Alexandrian Greek Old Testament, what does that have to do with manuscripts from the original Hebrew?

        I’ll concur with you that catholisism and orthodox buried the power of the Holy Spirit and replacing it with the precepts of men from the get go, which the church has had a difficult time of overcoming, but to call a translation commissioned to be a happy medium between two doctrines the only authoritative Word of God is an apostasy in itself and you become no better than the catholic. As I said before, when you have to go to a pastor to translate the thing for you, you might as well go to a priest and get an opinion, no difference.

        “I dont belong to any religeon or church or denomination and never have, I have never even stood before a preacher or preist , so I dont understand what this dogma is or what it has to do with the truth,so you carry on with your roman catholic bible if you wish its your choice .”

        As I’ve said, I’m not catholic, nor do I read a catholic bible. Well, I stand corrected, I occasionally read the Apocrypha for entertainment. To answer you, if you’ve never put yourself accountable to any man for leadership (allegedly the very thing that makes your KJV authoritative) and you allegedly are fastidious in your studies, you’ve absorbed the built in dogma of the KJV. And perhaps it’s time for you to darken a church door because even your KJV admonishes,

        “Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.”

      7. ?.finger ..If one had to remove my writeings and your dance with words from your post it would be renderd void of any substance ?????????

      8. Dean,

        Here I thought I was adding substance to your prating.

        So case in point I’ll add a discussion from one of your proponents that even condemns the NKJV. From regarding Acts 3:25,6 and as always having to go into subject argument as opposed to accuracy:

        ” In the KJV, we find that Jesus is God’s Son. In the NKJV, we find that He is God’s servant. These are clearly not the same! The Greek word found in the text here is “pais”. It can be used in Greek for either “son” or “servant.” So which one is correct here?

        The solution is simple: look at the context in which it is used. In English, we have many words that can have more than one meaning. If a translator, going from English to another language, came across the word “bear,” he would have a choice of meanings. But it wouldn’t take rocket science to figure out which one to use.

        Has your Bible been changed?If the passage described a man with a heavy burden, the translator would understand that the man is going to “bear,” or “carry” the burden. If, on the other hand, the passage described a hairy beast climbing a tree, the translator would understand the correct meaning here applies to a forest-dwelling animal that will eat nearly anything it finds. It’s not really very hard.

        Now look at the Bible passage above. What is being discussed?

        “children of the prophets”
        “covenant which God made with our fathers”
        “in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.”

        It’s clear, isn’t it? The passage is talking about “children,” and “fathers” and “seed.” The word “pais” means “son.” But the New King James translators chose “servant.” Why? They were not alone. The New World Translation, created by the Jehovah’s Witnesses who deny the deity of Jesus, translated this word “servant” also. So do the NIV, ASV, NASB and other modern Bible translations.

        Could it be that these modern translators disagree that “pais” can be translated “son?” No, the NKJV committee translates this very word as “boy,” “child” or “son” in Matthew 2:16; 17:18; 21:15; Luke 2:43; 9:42; and John 4:51. Yet they refused to translate the word as “son” in this powerful sermon where Peter presents Jesus as Messiah and Son of God.

        One has to ask, why were these translators so determined to deny the deity of Jesus in this passage? Is this a Bible you can trust with your eternal destiny? ”

        Unfortunately the commentator forgets that Jesus is the “suffering servant” but this “change” challenges the doctrine of the KJV. More accurately then the Hebrew says “…Hashem raised up his EVED [Moshiach], sending him to give you a bracha, turning every one of you in teshuva away from your wicked ways.” or in other words, EVED [Moshiach] equals “His servant Messiah”.

        I’ve had far too many discussions of KJV worshipers over inaccurate words put in by the KJV translators to support doctrine. And as the above author so readily shows his fear of losing something because he himself lacks the Holy Spirit.

        Sorry if you consider this a lack of substance, perhaps you need to grow up now. We will pray for your revelation.

      9. ?finger ,I have no idea what you are waffling on about ,Let me speek plainly and to the point ! Lucifer since the begining of time hates JESUS , as he is jealous of HIM , as he thinks he is better ! When he tempts our LORD in the wilderness ,this is evident in the way he trys to out-smart JESUS , but our LORD , wise to his deceitfull ways scorns/insults him by saying “,GET THEE BEHIND ME SATAN” So ask yourself who does this serve to remove these WORDS of our LORD from your NIV bible ? , ,

      10. Funny, I see you using the word Lucifer which is a word made up by the catholics and, sorry, not as old as the text you claim….

        You are seriously confused. Apparently, then, you must believe that God speaks in KJ English. Do you also believe that thees and thous are required for God to hear your prayer?

        Since you don’t seem to understand clarity, I’ll try once more. The NIV text is “Get behind me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to me; you do not have in mind the things of God, but the things of men.”

        And apparently that’s your problem, you have the things of men in your mind…

      11. ?finger… You are a lier if you say that your NIV bible has the verse “get behind me Satan” you can not disspute the facts in my posts, so you pick on trivial little things to score points, I will say it again, it is futile to debate this topic if you mix up the bibles ,you have probably made this schoolboy mistake, the NIV and the WEB/NIV are not the same……ps: do not waist my time any further

      12. Dear dean kevin heyes


        You wrote:

        You are a lier if you say that your NIV bible has the verse “get behind me Satan” …

        My reply:

        The best reply is to quote my NIV Bible:

        Matthew 16:23
        Jesus turned and said to Peter, “Get behind me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to me; you do not have in mind the things of God, but the things of men.”

      13. Hi Ivar.. my post to ?finger was clear that this was when Satan tempted JESUS in the wildeness . LUKE 4:8 which also happens to be my favourite ,thinking how our LORD could have squashed him like a bug, yet compossed himself with such strength and honour haveing you and me in mind ,Glory belongs to HIM alone

      14. Dean,
        It’s easy to dispute the information you post. I wish you did, in fact, post facts it would be an interesting debate. But, alas, you have been just prating. As Ivar pointed out and I state again, ALL the NIV translations say “get behind me, Satan.” including the physical bible in front of me.

        Now, you tell Ivar that somewhere you posted clearly you meant Luke 4:8. Thank you for the clarification. The Hebrew says this
        “Lukas 4:8

        Orthodox Jewish Bible (OJB)

        8 And in reply, he said to Hasatan, It has been written, ES HASHEM ELOHEICHA TIRAH VOTO TAAVOD (Hashem Eloheicha you shall fear and him alone you shall serve Dt 6:13)”

        Nothing about getting behind anyone, just like the NIV. Who does it serve to add those words to the KJV?

      15. ?finger…I say again you are a lier my post clearly speeks about Satan and JESUS in the wilderness, its still there in black and white ,it is you that is at fault ,and now try to wriggel away like a snake,but even a snake leaves a trail, and in this case its all there for all to read….. I bid you fare well

      16. Dean,

        You’ve seen the post in Hebrew. The only translations that reference “get thee behind me” for Luke 4:8 are KJV and translations of KJV.

        You’ve not answered the question, why did KJV add language? Wriggle like a snake out of that one. I’ve told you repeatedly that the KJV is a doctrinal bible, NOT an accurate bible.

        Repent and truly seek God’s Word and there may be hope for you.

  7. “And though the walls may develop cracks, the foundation is solid. Will you not remain and patch these cracks, My children?…”

    “Peter was My first Pope and your first Pope, and as all others who followed him, they must be accepted. Be they weak or noble, be they with sanctity or unholiness, they must be accepted and followed….

    “I ask you not to judge another. You may counsel, you may give your viewpoints, but no violence must be used. And I do not want schism. I do not want any interference from separated brethren in My Church. They must be brought back. Convert the unbeliever! You must remain united with Rome.

    “The gates of hell shall not prevail against My Church, for a cleansing will come about and all that is rotten will fall! And My Church shall be restored to its former glory!” – Jesus, June 9, 1979

    1. Dear Oldman.


      Peter was a Jew. A sinner and a married man. Peter was not a Pope.

      The Pope him self, claim to be Potifex Maximus. He is the successor of the Emperor of Rome. The Emperor of Rome claimed to be a “god”.

      The Vatican statehood was gifted the Pope by Fascist dictator Benito Mussolini.

      Why can you not accept the truth?

      Why do you continue to distribute lies and falsehood?

    2. Actually dean as i explained to you before it was the catholics who added in those extra verses. Read my post lol, and then double check the facts, and refer back to laurence gardner. And that’s a claim made by a scholar of the bible, not a layman as myself. Hence if the catholics did add those verses and they are in your bible, you tread a very thin line, bordering upon heresy. Just saying lol

      1. Bishop Irenaes of Lyons in 180 AD had these verses in his writeings ,he was a student of Polycorp {Bishop of Smyrna Revelations 2 }Polycorp was martyred in 156 AD and was a…. CHRISTIAN…. for 86 years and a desciple of JOHN the Apostle…… ,sorry to disapoint you, but I have found no mention of Roman catholic scribbles in the KJV Bible, neither has this Gardner sprouted up anywhere

      2. No it wouldn’t dean, go back to the paganism of the catholic church where we first chatted and I quoted the book and pages, if you really insist I will do so here again. I even gave page numbers of the book for you to go read. The catholics in short added the extra verses in order to sideline women. The other thing dean, what was he bishop of if not the roman church? Remember early christians were martyred in rome. Then Constantine converted Rome to “christianity”. But yes even the mithraic religion had bishops and mitres and sceptres etc. I have for a long time held the belief that catholicism is just another name for mithraism. The catholic church was about getting and maintaining power and as such was very much a political entity. But back in the days you talk of Dean, what was he bishop of I ask you again? Remember as such that there was no formal christian religion before the coptics, the eastern orthodox and the catholics. The protestants came after them. So please find a source that says where I can look up this bishop of yours.

    3. Thanks Dan will try to follow the advice. It has put me way back at the beginning and to reassess everything I thought I knew and take it from there. Do I just google bible gateway? Dean I don’t know what all those abbreviations mean I am afraid so cannot comment on what you said at all. Sorry

      1. Sorry Dean just checked on google/wikipedia for bishop ireneaus, and guess what? He is a roman see bishop, which means he is part of the catholic church. He is a saint in the catholic church and his feast day is on the 28th of june. Just saying dude, just saying, check it out and verify it for yourself if you want

      2. Greg ! what is it you are saying ? You said that the catholics wrote verses 9-20 in the Gospel of MARK to somehow down-play women ,but I have shown you from just one source that the Christians had these verses long before the roman catholic church was founded, so if this Gardner said in his book that the catholics made up these verses ,you have bean played ,so do yourself a favour and bin it or better still burn it as we would not want it to be re-cyleld into history

      1. that’s funny….and Jesus rebuked Peter also lolol…

        Matthew 16:22 Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee.

        Matthew 16:23 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.

    1. That’s just it though Dean, as fingers has already said, the original manuscripts don’t have Mark 16:9-20, therefore where did they come from and why were they added? Bear in mind that at the end of relevations we are warned not to alter the bible in anyway lest we lose the glory of heaven etc. Therefore it follows that if the bible manuscripts have been altered in anyway, we need to find a bible which is printed according to the manuscropts and not the earthly desires of men.

      1. Anyway Dean tonight I shall quote from Laurence Gardners’ book for you again, or alternatively you can go back to the catholic church and paganism forum and read it there, I did explain to you there how the bible was originally compiled. And I also explained to you there who Laurence Gardner is.

  8. Hi Dean, this is for you, the history of the bible.

    Report Abuse
    Best Answer

    In 397 A.D., the Catholic Church gave a definitive decision as to which writings and books should be admitted into the Bible and which should be rejected, and every book which is in the Protestant New Testament today, was put there by Pope Siricus and the Catholic Bishops in the year 397 A.D.

    The Canon was fixed in the 4th Century when Pope St. Damasus blessed the findings of the Council of Rome in 382. This was reaffirmed in his letter on the Canon to the Bishops in Asia Minor in 405. In 418, the canons of the 16 North African Councils were declared official Church teaching by the Pope. In 787, Nicea II reaffirmed the authority of these councils. In 1483, Pope Eugenius wrote the Letter to the Jacobites as the closing act of the Council of Florence and there he affirmed the Canon of Hippo. St. Augustine, St. Thomas Aquinas, St. Ambrose, St. Gregory the Great, St. Albertus Magnus and all of the major fathers of the Middle Ages affirmed the Canon of Hippo.

    The Bible was divided into chapters by Bishop Stephen Langton in the 13th century, and into verses in the 15th and 16th centuries. Protestants who use chapter and verse numbers are following a Catholic practice. The first Bible to be printed in the modern chapter-verse format was Stephanus’ Latin Bible of 1555. The first English Bible to incorporate these divisions was the popular Geneva English Bible of 1557, which was a forerunner of the 1611 King James Bible.

    Luther’s Protestant Bible came out 1520 and before his Bible the Catholic Bible had been translated into Spanish, Italian, Danish, French, Norwegian, Polish, Bohemian, Hungarian and English, there was exactly 104 editions in Latin; 38 editions in German language, 25 editions in Italian language, 18 in French. In all 626 editions of the Bible with 198 in the language of the laity, had been edited before the first Protestant Bible was sent forth into the world.

    Answer by Illuminator 2 years ago Report Abuse

    I hope this will help you understand the compilation of the bible which you seem to not understand.

      1. Lol Gloria that’s on google hey. So tell me where did your bible come from? What i have just taken off google you say is lies? Then where did the bible origiante? The vatican still has many manuscripts, and hasn’t let the poublic see many of them. But yes what I put up just now is accurate as far as I can see and correlates with all the other facts I have read about how the bible was compiled. You don’t want me to quote some of the atheists I am sure, and personally I don’t go along with their point of view, but that’s neither here nor there. I am talking of solid facts Gloria. The manuscripts from which the writing were taken!! Some of those manuscripts they have actually been able to date to around 65 AD, did you know that? That makes them like first hand eye witness reports!! If you like I can quote the entire report to you, just give the word and I shall but I presume you aren’t interested in those sort of facts, you just want to praise God’s Holy name the entire time don’t you?

        What is it about the catholics that you detest so much? And no I am not defending them, and am tired of you saying I do. I just like to remain level headed. You want to go through the crimes of the catholic church? Start with their crusades, then move onto their inquisitions, of which the new pope was high inquisitor of the latest inquisition in the 90’s. Then you can discuss how they annhilated different beliefs, eg.the cathars, known as the albigensian crusade. What about the heretics? What about the incas? Civilizations wiped out by the catholics. I have gone through all that Gloria, and they are as guilty as hell in my view but it is not my place to judge them, that’s for someone better to do. I can do the catholic bashing but choose not as I am far from perfect. I only seek answers to my questions, and if it menas I have to crack a few eggs to make the omlette so be it. Does that answer your question Gloria?

      2. So now you’ll sit there and tell me, everything that is posted in google is the truth?

        Oh Greg, again your not here to learn, but to cause confusion and lies.

      3. Hey tivani, a very impressive statement you make there. Anyway this article I got off the internet. Found it quite interesting as well.

        Rene’s Reading Room

        Interesting question – Who chose which gospels finally included in the Bible?

        “More than eighty  gospels were considered for the New Testament, and yet only a relative few were chosen for inclusion – Matthew, Mark, Luke and John among them.” 


        Who chose which gospels to include ?

        The Bible, as we know it today, was collated by the pagan Roman emperor Constantine Great… It was all about power…Many scholars claim that the early Church literally stole Jesus from His original followers, hijacking His human message, shrouding it in an impenetrable cloak of divinity, and using it to expand their own power …thousands of documents already existed chronicling His life as a mortal man.  To rewrite the history books, Constantine knew he would need a bold stroke…The earlier gospels were outlawed, gathered up and burned…Fortunately some of the [earliest] gospels … survived.  The Dead Sea Scrolls were found in the 1950′s…and.. the Coptic Scrolls in 1945 at Nag Hammadi… confirming that the modern Bible was compiled and edited by men who possessed a political agenda…the modern Church’s desire to suppress these documents comes from a sincere belief in their established view of Christ …”

        This is a very interesting question and I would suggest that you research the subject matter and then make up your own mind. I would say that it is extremely important that we uncover the truth regarding this matter. Remember blind faith cannot stand in the face of adversity. It is only when you are able to face the facts of a matter that you become confident about a perception that you hold as “truth”.


        Now if this is true, I want to know what the other 76 gospels are. It is said the vatican has stacks of literature in its library that is not safe for the general populace to read so we will probably never know. Would like to know why they hid it away from the flock.

        Finger you ever heard of the other gospels? Is it possible to read them anywhere?

      4. Greg,

        You truly should be spammed from this site. You spend more time copying and pasting lies, then actually trying to learn the Word of God.

        Do you believe that the Word of God is God speaking? The entire Word?

      5. To set the record straight gloria, none of what I have quoted, as far as I know is of catholic origins. Most in fact are anti catholic, and claim to be trying to set the records staright. The quote on changing the bible etc, is to show how much damage the catholics have cuased in fact. What about the manuscripts they keep away from the general populace? Who died and made them God that they can decide who can read what? Censorship causes grief. It is like the way the catholics didn’t want the bible originally printed because they didn’t want the laymen to read it.

        Anyway Gloria if I have caused any offence with you I do apologise. That was not my intent at all. Like fingers said though, is a good reference site. And is really fascinating.

      6. Greg,

        Do you believe the Word of God is God speaking to us? Do you read the Bible sincerely, and try to understand what Jesus is telling you?

        The fact is -is that Christ comes soon. And understanding his Word, accepting Jesus brings us closer to him.

    1. Dear Greg


      You wrote:

      Luther’s Protestant Bible came out 1520 and before his Bible the Catholic Bible had been translated into Spanish, Italian, Danish, French, Norwegian, Polish, Bohemian, Hungarian and English….

      My reply:

      This is free fantasy. Norway got its first Norwegian translation as late as in 1814. You are a liar and a cheater.

      The first Bible ever to be translated into English, was the 1525 A.D edition of William Tyndale. He was killed by the papists for this “crime against the Pope”.

      In 1536 A.D, Tyndale was convicted of heresy and executed by strangulation, after which his body was burnt at the stake.

      1. No Gloria, even i am not that stupid as to believe everything on google. But I could get you other quotations along the same lines. Why is it with you gloria that if someone wants to either pursue a truth or has a different point of view to you they are catholics? Have you no respect for other people at all that differ from you? Do you remember the story of the good samaritan Gloria? What was the parable there? And the prodigal son? Aren’t those stories for loving your fellow man? And having respect for others even if they are different to you? Let me put it to you this way Gloria, I live in a country where we have 11.official languages, and many different religions that come with the different cultures and languages. if we had no tolerance for those who were different there would be a blood bath every day.

        I guess that is also fundamentally the reason I want to get as close to the truth as I can. Truth can set one free, I have seen that happen and so seek it myself.

      2. Actually no I didn’t write that ivar, do you have google where you are? Well I googled the history of the bible, and that quote written by illuminator came out as the best answer. So it is to him you should direct your comments, but in order to be fair I shall look up more quotes for you ivar, I do like being helpful what.

        Doesn’t the bible say that when two or more are gathered in his name the holy spirit is also there? Does that mean that whilst we are chatting here about God etc that the hoky spirit is with us?

        You don’t object ivar if I post the next quote tomorrow do you? It is rather late after all and I have to go to work just now.

      3. Ivar, you are so right. With the Gospel of John, makes it so even a child can understand. first off the Romans in the day Yeshua walked on this earth, then the roman catholic held back bibles for centurys. the Bibe says, anyone who adds to or takes away one dot or title is acursed. While Yeshua was talking to Peter, and said, up on this rock, I build My Church, He was talking about HIMSELF..and HE has all authority in heaven and in earth and below the earth. NO one is to try to take HIS authority period…Yeshua is the Rock of our Salvation…and the bible says it was ALL G-d Breathed. the catholic who say Peter was a pope that G-d built His church is a liar. Blasphemy is a unforgiveable sin..we are NOT to call any man FATHER but HIM…and HE said, the dead is dead..but the catholic pray to dead..there is no prugatory. I was listening to JOHN Paul 2 ..HE said, I am going to die. I have to go to purgatory for awhile and then onto heaven and stand at the right hand of the Father, pray to me.. I all but fell off the couch.. a person on earth can forgive a neighbor, but only Almighy G-d thru Jesus Christ our L-rd can forgive and throw out sins in the sea never to be remembered..and for a pope to say he can is blasphemy. not to mention putting mary above Yeshua and HIS Word..That is why HE told the Disciples after the Cross, HE had to go to send HIS HOLY SPIRIT to us to lead us into all truth. and then in 2 Timothy, we are told, IF anyone preaches another gospel than the one we preached, and even if a angle appears, from such turn away. I have heard many try to figure out where the Babylon will be. Reading REV 17 and 18 the Whore is Rome and the one world system . like it says, what was and then isn’t and will be where the seven hills is , IS ROME..Read it, and it even tells us MYSTERY BABYLON..there only one during the time of Yeshua here on earth, Rome and now we see her appear even against Israel and going there to call himself the man of peace..Everything anyone wants to know is in the WORD of G-d..HE IS THE WORD…and says no one will have an excuse.. He said two thousand years ago. I will be back to pay what I owe, HE was using a parable which HE used to teach many things this time the Innkeeper. a thousand yrs is lke a day to the L-rd. HE is coming and it is nearer than we think……HE is the FIRST, THE NOW and the LAST and said, I am your councer, prince of peace, mighty G-d and everlasting FATHER , John 8:24 tells us Yeshua is G-d..emanuel with us. Even pope malacy said the last pope is the antichrist and named Francis. the old Testament reveals the New T. the New T is concealed in the old, what was, will be and there is nothing new under the sun..Shalom

  9. Here is a book about the popes and their claims, “The Papacy Is The Antichrist A Demonstration”.

    Click to access thepapacy.pdf

    Chapter XV documents some of the pope’s claims to be God or as God. Here is a quote from the preface of the book.

    “We conclude, therefore, that if Jesus of Nazareth be the Christ, the Roman Papacy is the Antichrist.”

      1. greg


        Roman Catholics often say that it
        was their church that gave us the
        Bible. They sometimes claim this
        when defending their “Sacred
        Tradition” so that they might
        support extra-biblical teachings
        such as purgatory, penance,
        indulgences, and Mary worship.
        They often say the only way the
        Christian church knew what books
        are to be included in the Canon of
        Scripture was because it was
        revealed by word-of-mouth in the
        early church; that is, by the
        tradition of the Catholic Church.
        Unfortunately, this argument
        implies that tradition is superior to
        Scripture. Of course, we are not
        saying that the Roman Catholic
        church teaches that tradition is
        above Scripture. But when Sacred
        Tradition is claimed to be the thing
        by which Scripture is given, then
        tradition is inadvertently the thing
        that gives blessing and approval to
        the Bible. Heb. 7:7 says, “But
        without any dispute the lesser is
        blessed by the greater.” The
        unfortunate psychological effect of
        saying that Roman Catholic
        tradition is what gave us the Bible,
        is that it elevates their tradition to
        a level far greater than what is
        permitted in Scripture. In fact, it is
        contradicted by scripture:
        “Now these things,
        brethren, I have
        figuratively applied to
        myself and Apollos for your
        sakes, that in us you might
        learn not to exceed what is
        written, in order that no
        one of you might become
        arrogant in behalf of one
        against the other,” ( 1 Cor.
        4:6 ).
        The Bible tells us to obey the Word
        of God, to not go beyond the
        written Word, so that we might not
        make mistakes in what is true.
        Unfortunately, the problem with an
        elevated status of Roman Catholic
        church tradition is that it results in
        various justifications of it’s non-
        biblical teachings such as prayer to
        Mary, purgatory, indulgences,
        penance, works of righteousness,
        etc. Because it has deviated from
        trusting God’s Word alone, it has
        ventured into unscriptural areas.
        Nevertheless, did the Roman
        Catholic Church give us the Bible?
        No, it did not.
        First of all, the Roman Catholic
        Church was not really in effect as
        an organization in the first couple
        hundred years of the Christian
        Church. The Christian church was
        under persecution and official
        church gatherings were risky
        business in the Roman Empire.
        Catholicism as an organization with
        a central figure located in Rome
        did not occur for quite some time,
        in spite of its claim they can trace
        the papacy back to Peter.
        Second, the Christian Church
        recognized what was Scripture. It
        did not establish it. This is a very
        important point. The Christian
        Church recognizes what God has
        inspired and pronounces that
        recognition. In other words, it
        discovers what is already authentic.
        Jesus said “my sheep hear my voice
        and they follow me…” ( John 10:27 )
        . The church hears the voice of
        Christ; that is, it recognizes what is
        inspired and it follows the word. It
        does not add to it as the Roman
        Catholic Church has done.
        Therefore, it is not following the
        voice of Christ.
        Third, the Roman Catholic Church
        did not give us the Old Testament
        which is the Scripture to which
        Christ and the apostles appealed. If
        the Roman Catholic Church wants
        to state that it gave us the Bible,
        how can they claim to have given
        us the Old Testament which is part
        of the Bible? It didn’t, so it cannot
        make that claim. The fact is that
        the followers of God, the true
        followers of God, recognize what is
        and is not inspired. The Jews knew
        what was inspired of God and they
        recognized what God had inspired.
        That is what those who are of God
        Fourth, when the apostles wrote
        the New Testament documents they
        were inspired by the power of the
        Holy Spirit. There wasn’t any real
        issue of whether or not they were
        authentic. Their writings did not
        need to be deemed worthy of
        inclusion in the Canon of Scripture
        by a later group of men in the so-
        called Roman Catholic Church. To
        make such a claim is, in effect, to
        usurp the natural power and
        authority of God himself.
        Fifth, the Scripture says, “But know
        this first of all, that no prophecy of
        Scripture is a matter of one’s own
        interpretation, 21 for no prophecy
        was ever made by an act of human
        will, but men moved by the Holy
        Spirit spoke from God,” ( 2 Pet.
        1:20-21 ). The Bible tells us that the
        Scriptures are inspired by the Holy
        Spirit. Therefore, the very nature
        of the inspired documents is that
        they carry power and authenticity
        in themselves. They are not given
        the power or the authenticity of
        ecclesiastical declaration.
        The Christian church merely
        recognizes the Word of God ( John
        10:27 ). The authenticity of the New
        Testament documents rests in the
        inspiration of God through the
        apostles. It does not rest in the
        declaration of the Catholic Church.
        This is very important. The
        Christian Church recognizes what
        God has ordained through his
        sovereign inspiration to be the
        word of God. When the Catholic
        Church claims that it is the source
        of the sacred Scriptures, it is, in
        effect, placing itself above the
        word of God. It needs to repent

      2. And considering you ivar claimed the first norwegian bible only being printed in 1814, and called me a liar and cheat, we can all make claims, you are very opinionated, though it must be said I feel you are blinded by your prejudices, from what I understand from writings that I have read in the bible, God has said, “judge not lest ye be judged”. So how dare you then judge anyone else Ivar? Or are you trying to claim to be the second coming?

        Personally I don’t care at all what your beliefs are, I just want to find out truths, and where and how I find them, and the method I use, who is to say I am right or wrong? I just like to read other peoples point of view and seek clarification where I do not understand. As such I like to find out historical facts to improve my beliefs and understandings.

        Google and wikipedia are handy tools in this because they are so convenient and easily accessible. Now there are crackpots there, much like in the real world, and so inseeking truth one has to sieve through all the lies around.

        Where does the quote come from”cast not the first stone”? Or something like that?

        The final thing Ivar, are you trying to emulate the catholics here, you call everyone who disagrees with you satanists, liars etc. That’s exactly what the catholics did, calling everyone whpo disagreed with them heretics. I fail to see the difference here between either you or the catholics in this regard.

        Anyway will chat later I am sure, I am finding this really fascinating and totally interesting.


      3. Dear Greg.


        It is possible to that you do not know what kind of stuff you are distributing. Many Roman Catholics just accept what their priests are saying, and tell others.

        But a lie is a lie, even if it has been told a million times, and distributed in all kinds of media.

      4. I couldn’t agree with you more Ivar, hate lies and the confusion they cause. My point is simply if the catholics have anything to do wuth the compilation of the bible, I want nothing to do with the bible. I think it was you who wrote about the scriptures and false doctrines. Just because someone says the sky is blue, do you believe them or go and check out the facts? It is with those thoughts in mind I look for answers. I have questions galore but finding the answers is difficult. Sureky any reasonable person wants facts?

    1. Actually read that calling Jesus “Jesus of nazreth” was in fact a misinterpretation of the bible as nazreth was apparently not in existence at the time of Christ. The correct interpretation should have been Jesus the nazerene. The nazarene’s were a group of the jews, much like the essenes and pharisees etc. Just an idle observation, haven’t verified that independently as yet. Personally appears to be hair splitting to me I guess.

      1. Dear Greg.


        You wrote:

        Actually read that calling Jesus “Jesus of nazreth” was in fact a misinterpretation of the bible as nazreth was apparently not in existence at the time of Christ.

        My reply:

        This seems to be the age of Catholic and orthodox “super revelations”.

        This is written in the Amplified Bible, who is a direct translation from the original Greek and Hebrew versions of the New Testament.

        Matthew 2:23
        He went and dwelt in a town called Nazareth, so that what was spoken through the prophets might be fulfilled: He shall be called a Nazarene [Branch, Separated One].

        Here is a quote from Wikipedia:

        Nazaréth” is named twelve times in surviving Greek manuscript versions of the New Testament, 10 times as Nazaréth or Nazarét, and twice as Nazará

  10. Everyone here may accept the truth “THESE ARE THE VERY LAST DAYS”. Stop the quarrel and divisions now if you are really willing to enter God’s Kingdom.

    Message to MDM on July 15th, 2012 by God the Father.

    ” It is difficult for My children to remain free of sin because of the curse inflicted upon them by the hand of the serpent.

    Never do I expect My children to be completely free of sin at all times for this is impossible.

    It is important that anyone who knows the teachings of My Son’s Church on earth to seek repentance for your sins as often as possible.

    Through repentance it will be easier to remain in a state of grace and this will create a barrier to further temptation.

    My children you are now about to witness great everlasting changes in the world. They will happen after The Warning takes place.

    While many will ignore these messages from Heaven, it is important for those who accept them as the Word of God to prepare.”

    1. Oldman,

      Why do you choose to quote a man that needs to repent of his sins? He twists the Word of God to suits his need. Nothing that comes out of the Pope’s mouth, is a message from Christ.

  11. all practices they are exhibiting are against God, Bible speaks how God condemned idolatry and yet they preach to the people to bow down to idols, their doctrines are unacceptable for they follow traditions from ancient civilization, (paganism). blasphemous claims, how come that a pope said that the world is square and he imprisoned Galileo for declaring that the world is round, Jesus was perfect and popes are declaring false statement how come then that they claim that they represent God and the Lord Jesus?…..

  12. Zech 5 The Flying scroll & the Wickedness in a measure, which measure exceeded reveals “Freemasonry governed by Theosophy” the Biblical False Prophet. Freemasonry established at the time of QE1, notorious for the Modern African slave trade, masonry itself off that ‘ole iniquity(off the OT words “There is see a conspiracy among her princes)
    The Wickedness denoted by the theosophist- Ukranian Helena Blatvasky. carried between Heaven & Earth. denotes the Principalities & Powers, Wickedness in heavenly like places. from which was given unto her the principles/philosophies of theosophy through tibetian spirits, the Wickedness carried by two storked winged women, denote spiritual uncleanness by theosophists Alice Bailey & Annie Beasant, established in Shinar denote New York, (one of the three parts that Babylon is divided) upon her pedstral denote the statue of Liberty, winding its way eventually into the theosophical payer hall in the UN.
    Thus Freemasonry by Theosophy headquartered & represented through the White House & the UN today respectively. Incidentally the Pope being invited to address the US senate(White house) & the UN in Sept is but addressing the Biblical False Prophet, ending up,against the basic family order by sodom & its compromises, against the Biblical warning “Remember Lots wife” is but to usher in the days of Lot as Prophesied to make Sodom as a way of life. the goal of the False Prophet, even so deceitfully.

  13. Said Jesus on the cross expressively in Aramaic “Eli Eli Lama Sabchthani ” to mean “My God, My God why hast thou forsaken me” to this did the Father forsake His son? The answer is No, ’cause he was resurrected. So the question arises “Did Jesus not know what he was saying ? The answer is that he as the 2nd Adam was echoing the last words of the 1st. Adam, the father of mankind. Thus revealing himself, Jesus as savior of mankind, them who believe in him (John 3:16- For God so loved the world(through Adam) that He gave His only begotten son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish but have everlasting life”) So God did not forsake Adam, even so the Bible says in genealogy “& Adam the son of God.”

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