Civil war looming in Netanyahu’s Israel

By being disloyal to his own state, the Israeli Prime minister is not only pulling his own cabinet into civil war.

Jewish Zionist settlers protest in front of the Israeli Prime Ministers office.

Thousands of settlers and their supporters traveled to Jerusalem, including many teenagers, to rally by the Prime Minister’s Office as the cabinet held its weekly meeting inside.

National Infrastructures Minister Uzi Landau (Israel Beiteinu), who opposes a freeze, left the meeting to address the demonstrators. He slammed assertions by Netanyahu that the US offer, which includes 20 advanced fighter jets worth USD 3 billion, would improve the country’s security.

Cabinet minister Uzi Landau.

“Anyone who says that he is worried about Israel’s security but at the same time suggests and requests that it return to the [1949-1967 armistice line], is essentially asking Israel to return to the same lines that [the late foreign minister] Abba Eban once called the Auschwitz lines, explained Landau.

He continued:

“Anyone who asks for this doesn’t understand Israel’s security needs and such a request should be rejected by all who hold Israel dear and who want to defeat terrorism”.

Source: Jerusalem Post.

My comment:

National Infrastructures Minister Uzi Landau just fell short of calling the Prime Minister of Israel a traitor.

It now seems obvious that men like Benjamin Netanyahu and Ehud Barak has been bribed by Barack Hussein Obama, and that the Israeli Supreme Court must order an investigation.

Taken to its logic conclusion, the Israeli Government might be forced by the US Administration to use the IDF to cleanse Jews from the Biblical heartland of Israel. Down this pipeline of corruption, there will be a civil war looming in Israel.

The book of revelation explains that there will be a blood bath in Jerusalem, and what former President Bill Clinton called the “Holy basin”.

In the end, just before the rapture, there will only be two lamp stands representing God on the Earth. They will witness together.

Revelation: 11:4
They are “the two olive trees” and the two lampstands, and “they stand before the Lord of the earth.”

Both of them will stand in Zion. They will expose all nations and all kinds of Churches to be involved in lies, cheating and wickedness.

Revelation 11:5
If anyone tries to harm them, fire comes from their mouths and devours their enemies. This is how anyone who wants to harm them must die.

Men like Obama and Netanyahu will force the IDF to end Zionism, and create a blood bath in Jerusalem.

Revelation 11:7.
Now when they have finished their testimony, the beast that comes up from the Abyss will attack them, and overpower and kill them. Their bodies will lie in the public square of the great city—which is figuratively called Sodom and Egypt—where also their Lord was crucified.

But the enemies of God of the Bible shall see God’s power when God of Israel take His not corruptible witnesses away in a rapture.

Revelation 11: 12
Then they heard a loud voice from heaven saying to them, “Come up here.” And they went up to heaven in a cloud, while their enemies looked on.

The final battle will stand in Zion. Either people believe it or not. God of the Bible is preparing the lake of sulfur, a hot place were He will send His enemies to spend the eternity.

34 thoughts on “Civil war looming in Netanyahu’s Israel

  1. Again, I believe you are a off on your teaching but will agree the two witnesses will come, and could be very soon. Still know that the ‘rapture’ is nothing more than the tail end of the resurrection of the dead that Christ will bring about on His return with a mighty blast that will be far from what is now dubbed a “secret” return by so-called prophets of the Church. I think the antiChrist could be somebody like Ariel Sharon (head wound) that all Israel will follow in their polictical Zionist elite rule-the-world secular government. Thankfully, there are some Jews that don’t follow these secular Jews but still seek the truth from the Tanak. I, for one, lean towards a Jewish man (that comes in his own name) that will be the finaly antiChrist. Can’t see the Jews following any other type person, especially the Pope.

    AMEN

    1. Dear Gordon.

      Shalom.

      You wrote:

      Can’t see the Jews following any other type person, especially the Pope.

      My reply:

      You will be surprised how many Jews who work for ecumenical union between all religions. The Pope seems to be the “man of peace” and universalism they can compromise on.

      A couple of links. Please read, and let me know what you think.

      https://ivarfjeld.wordpress.com/2010/09/23/ehud-olmert-a-special-trust-will-take-over-the-temple-mount/

      https://ivarfjeld.wordpress.com/2010/08/14/grand-master-ready-to-take-over-and-bring-%C2%ABpeace%C2%BB-to-jerusalem/

      1. In my opinion there is no question the false Chuch and false prophet could come out of the RCC. As written previously Pope Gregory the Great which Calvin thought was the last good Pope, declared that any bishop that took the title of Universal Bishop (better and higher than all others) was the antiChrist. However, Jesus told the leaders at His time they would follow after one of their own who would come in his own name. That could be the antiChrist (i.e. somebody like Ariel Sharon) that leads a secular earthly government while disregarding the Tanak and the G-d of the Jewish fathers. The Pope would support such a government, especially if that government would promote the RCC. Is that sufficient or do you need more of my thoughts?

      2. First, these response is out of sequence and not sure how to correct that! But I am responding to you last response to me. I am not a 7th DA or belong to any other cult but solely rely on the Holy Scriptures and the guidance of the Holy Spirit which are One in agreement and teach the same thing. In other words the final source is the Word of God already given to us for our instruction. I am not teaching my thoughts but have clearly shown by the Scripturesd that dead bodies are raised first before the rapture but the event all happens at the samed time when Christ sounds the blast. Those dead bodies that come out of the ground are given to the saints that are in heaven with God and Jesus Christ and have trusted in Jesus Christ to give them back their bodies but not the sinful bodies but the new immortal bodies that are identical to the body Jesus Christ has. Obviously the dead bodies that are caught up to be with the Lord must come out of the ground and the fact that they will be with the Lord obviously means they have risen high enought to be with Jesus Christ for ever and ever whatever height is required.

        The point that the Word of God makes (and not me) is that the dead in Christ (those believers that have died and were buried in the ground over the last 6,000 years will not be left in their graves. They will come out and be joined with their spirit and soul to forever be with the Lord. That happens FIRST before the rapture, which are the people that are alive at Christ’s return who are changed AFTER the resurrection of the dead.

        The big question is why don’t you believe the Word of God? How can you not see the correct order that is so clearly outlined by the Holy Spirit? Let me number it and then you can use whatever Scripturre you want but you will not be able to refute the truth with half-truths. The order is as follows:

        1. Christ returns with a shout.
        2. The dead are raised from the graves.
        3. Those that are alive join them after being given immortal bodies.
        4. The sheep (saints) are put on the right side of Jesus Christ.
        5. The goats (the lost) are put on the left side of Jesus Christ.
        6. The saints stay with Jesus.
        7. The lost go to hell.

        The point of the whole matter is that this will not be a secret event or a silent whistle to call just the saved. It will be a loud shout that will shake heaven and earth and at the return the earth and the heaven will melt. All of the above happens on the last day, because dead bodies cannot come out of the ground before Jesus said they would come out. And Jesus said they would come out on the last day four time in the Gospel of John and that both the good and the bad would be raised in the same hour!

        Now if you continue to disbelieve these facts then the site will not receive God’s blessing and I pray you will get no rest and all your works that disagree with the Scriptures will be burned up. I pray in the name of Jesus Christ the one and only Son of God.

        AMEN

      3. Gordon,

        I’m curious to your response to this.

        You wrote: 4. The sheep (saints) are put on the right side of Jesus Christ.
        5. The goats (the lost) are put on the left side of Jesus Christ.

        My Comment: Do you hold a post tribulation view? Where you think the rapture occurs, and from the sheep and goats comment- judgement occurs? If that was the case, why wouldn’t Paul have mentioned it in (1 Thess, 4:16-18)?

        Also if Matthew 25:31-34 (sheep and goats) occured at the end of the tribulation (this is assuming I understand what you wrote) there would be no sheep left on earth to divide, only goats.

        I believe the goats and sheep will occur after the tribulation.

        Believers who died before the Church age will rise from their graves (Daniel 12:2), accompanied by Tribulation Martyrs (Rev. 20:4). Together they’ll witness the Glorious Appearing of the Lord and join the grateful multitude in welcoming Him to Earth. The Creation itself will have been waiting in eager expectation of this day, when it will finally be liberated from it’s bondage to decay. (Romans 8:19-21)

        The Lord’s first order of business upon returning will be to summon all the survivors of the Great Tribulation to determine their disposition. First the Jew,

        Jesus said to them (the Disciples), “I tell you the truth, at the renewal of all things, when the Son of Man sits on his glorious throne, you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.” (Matt. 19:28)

        Then the Gentile.

        “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory. All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. (Matt. 25:31-32)

      4. Dear Gordon.

        Shalom.

        I also want to wish you a happy thanksgiving. Please come back and continue to debate on this site.

    2. Gordon,

      Your Comment: Still know that the ‘rapture’ is nothing more than the tail end of the resurrection of the dead that Christ will bring about on His return with a mighty blast that will be far from what is now dubbed a “secret” return by so-called prophets of the Church.

      My Comment: The rapture is one of the BIGGEST THINGS true Christians believe in and look forward to. The Bible is the True Word of God, and his word is always truth.

      The bible verses below proves the rapture is indeed coming to the dead in Christ first, and then those that believe in Jesus will follow right after.

      “For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words.” (1 Thess, 4:16-18).

      “Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal [must] put on immortality” (1 Cor. 15:51-53).

      The word rapture comes from Paul’s “caught up” remark in verse 17. The words “caught up” are translated from Greek word harpazo, which means to carry up or snatch up. Harpazo became the Latin word raptus, and raptus became the english word rapture.

      1. Again, you can’t put together a simple sentence structure and pick out the main action. In both of the verses you so abtly quote you miss the point that bodies are coming out of the ground and that the dead are being raised! That is the emphasis, and not the catching up of those are alive at the time to witness the resurrection of the dead and the giving to us our immortal incorruptible bodies. I asked you to read thoses verses starting at the beginning of each Chapter and find out what Paul was really looking forward towards Christ return and resurrecting the dead. This is our great hope, not that some folks that are alive at His return get caught up, but that all beleivers in Christ that have died from the begnning of time up to the Second Coming are in faact raised from the dead and given new bodies. It clearly states that those that are alive will not precede those that are in the graves. Are you a moron or can you or can’t you follow this whole train of thought or must you contine to take one or two sentences out of context? Again, the whole subject matter is the ressurection of the dead and that is our great hope!

        AMEN

        AMEN

      2. Gloria,

        Let me quote some Scriptures that you should study and perhaps cut them out of your Bible and burn them! As it is written, “But I suffer no a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.” In other words, shut up and try to learn and stop trying to teach false doctrines. Okay? If you can read you will see that it is the “resurrection of the dead” that is the big deal and what is the true subject matter of the partial verses you quote. Read the whole Chapter!

        AMEN

        AMEN

      3. Gordon,

        Your Comment: Again, you can’t put together a simple sentence structure and pick out the main action.

        My Comment: There are more than those two verses in the bible that prove the rapture will happen. But the verses I listed do speak about the rapture being the main action. And as you said the dead shall rise first, and then WE…WE which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Why is it so hard to understand that part? You agree that God’s Word is the truth? Is your version of the bible different from the version every Christian uses?

        Your Comment: I asked you to read thoses verses starting at the beginning of each Chapter and find out what Paul was really looking forward towards Christ return and resurrecting the dead. This is our great hope

        My Comment: Who said I haven’t read this chapter? And reading it before, and reading it again does not change the truth. The rapture will happen for the dead in Christ first, and then we will be with the Lord forever. Because (1 Thess, 4:16-18) and(1 Cor. 15:51-53) and John 14:2-3 tells me that Christ is coming, and the rapture will happen.

        Your Comment: Are you a moron or can you or can’t you follow this whole train of thought or must you contine to take one or two sentences out of context?

        My Comment: I would really appreciate it if you behave like a gentleman, and refrain from calling me names. We can discuss the bible and disagree on views, without disrespecting each other.

        And you seeme to be quoting 1 Thes. 4:15 without reading the whole chapter. Read the whole chapter, and God’s Word will make sense.

      4. Gordon,

        Your Comment: As it is written, “But I suffer no a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.” In other words, shut up and try to learn and stop trying to teach false doctrines.

        My Comment: Let me show you what the Word of God says:

        Philippians 2:3 Do nothing from selfishness or empty conceit, but with humility of mind let each of you regard one another as more important than himself;

        Again if you can’t speak with respect to someone else, then you shouldn’t speak at all.

      5. Gloria,

        I can see that not only do you try to usurp authority over man but persist to disobey God’s Word. Further, I didn’t quote the Scriptures out of conceit but to harshly rebuke you and wake you up from your deafness, as it is written, “rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in faith.” Titus 1:13.

        I am going to outline the 15th Chapter for you and show you that the “blessed hope” that we true Christians are waiting for is, in fact, the RESURRECTION OF THE DEAD and not the so-called ‘rapture’ which is nothing more than the tail end of the Resurrection of the Dead. If you weren’t so carnal you would get it, but here goes anyway with all quotes from 1 Corinthians Chapter 15 using the NKJV:

        v20. “But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep.” (The Holy Spirit is showing that because Christ has died (fallen asleep) and has risen (back from death and the grave to life) He is the beginning of those that have died, but will also rise from the dead.) The question for you Gloria is when will the dead rise? Plus, notice this is not about a ‘rapture’.

        v.21 “For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead.” (Here the Holy Spirit is showing that death came by Adam, but Jesus Christ will correct this condition and the dead will be raised back to life. Note that Jesus Christ is reversing “death”. Are you starting to get the picture?

        v. 22 “For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive.” Here the Holy Spirit is teaching that “all” have died in Adam, but that “all” will be made alive in Christ. Note the word “all” and this means everyone, both saints and the condemned. As it is written, “Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves wil hear His voice and come forth, those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.” John 5:28. Gloria both the saved and the lost are raised on the same day and even the same hour. Nowhere does Christ teach the saints are resurrected and leave the wicked behind. In fact, Jesus taught the opposite, that both wheat and the tares grow together until the final harvest. The net catches both the good and the bad at the same time, together at once, then comes the separation. There is no 1,000 years in between.

        v. 23 “But each one in his own order; Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming.” (Here the Holy Spirit teaches that we will not be resurrected from the dead until Christ returns at His coming). Expecially note what happens when He does come to raise the dead in the next verse.

        v. 24 “Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts and end to all rule and all authority and power.” (Here the Holy Spirit teaches that when Christ comes and raises the dead, that this world as we know it, will be over and it will be the end of the age and ALL rule, ALL authority, and ALL power will be put to an end.) Notice that means nothing afterwards will be ruling on this earth, neither, men, angels, not even Satan, when He comes to raise the dead and puts an end to all rebellion and sin.

        v. 25 For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet.” (Here the Holy Spirit gives the facts as they are now and not when He comes. That is, that Jesus Christ is reigning right now from Heaven and He is Prophet, Priest, and King and doesn’t need to come back to earth to a place that is not His Kingdom, but a poor copy of the Temple and a sinfilled earthly Jerusalem that can never replace the true Jerusalem and Heavenly Kingdom where His Father abodes in pure Holiness without sin, death, or rebellious rebels trying to seat themselves in His Kingdom.

        v. 25 “For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet.” Again, He reigns at this very moment and will continue to do so up and until all enemies are defeated. Even the last enemy which is death.

        v.26 “The last enemy that will be destroyed is death.” (Here the Holy
        Spirit teached that Christ reigns in Heaven and that when He comes the next time that even death will be defeated. In fact, all will be raised from the dead and all will be eternally alive, with the sheep being invited to His right, and the goats to a eternal life without G-d and with complete separation forever and ever on His left). As it is written, “When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. All nations willl be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats. And He will put the goats on the left.” Notice that when He comes in His glory, He doesn’t just gather the “elect” in some sort of separate ‘rapture’, but infact, gathers the goats, too, but puts them on the left.

        Time prevents me from going on through all the verses, but you should get the picture. The Holy Spirit is teaching about the resurrection of all the dead and that it will happen at the end of the age, on the last day, and upbraids those that would deny the resurection of the dead here in Chapter 15. He tells what kind of body we will get at the resurrection which will be raised in incorruption. None of the emphasis is on any sort of ‘rapture’ but it is all about the resurrection of the dead and gaining our cetestial bodies and freed from death. The final victory is inheriting incorrution. Naturally, there will be some folks still alive at Christ’s return. They will be changed but not until the resurrection of the dead and after all bodies come out of the graves.
        We will be gathered to the right side and the lost will be gathered to the left side, but both in the same hour.

        1 Thessalonians 4:13 and following teaches the same exact thing. It is about the comfort of Christ’s coming and at the last trumphet raising the dead. But here in Chapter 5 do we learn that this is the “Day of the Lord” and we shouldn’t allow it to catch us by surprise. Finally, Paul prays for the Thessalonians to be kept whole, and that their whole spirit, whole soul and whole body be kept preserved and blameless at the coming of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

        Our blessed hope is the resurrection of the dead when we are given are new bodies and are gathered on the right side of Christ and for those who are lost, their biggest nightmare is to be caught up on the left and cast into everlasting hell. All of which happens on the last day.

        AMEN

      6. Dear Gordon.

        Shalom.

        I can see from your long message of theology, that you need space to explain why the written Word of God do mean something else than what is written.

        Let me explain this is a clear message to you:

        When Jesus through Paul say that we who are alive will meet the Lord in the air, it shall be understood as it is written. Jesus did not come to people who taught theology, He chose simple fishermen as his students.

        Gordon: “Let the dead bury their own dead”. Please explain. How can “dead people” bury their own dead? The last category is obviously dead, because we do not bury people who are alive.

        Do Jesus speak about “spiritual dead” people walking around us, and trying to comment on this blog, in a bid to make the written Word of God null and void?

        I guess you are among these living dead, because you reject the Word of God.

      7. Gordon,

        With all due respect, you are what the call a scripture twister. What does that mean you ask? A person who takes the word of God and twists it to suit their own need.

        Let’s take the few verses in 1 Thessalonians 4 verses 13 to 18.

        13 Brothers and sisters, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you do not grieve like the rest of mankind, who have no hope. 14 For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. 15 According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. 18 Therefore encourage one another with these words.

        Now here is the breakdown. Pay attention. The Word of God isn’t hard to true believers. And please don’t twist the words.

        Verse 14: For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. *end*

        Paul gives his first reason why we can have hope. The inevitable result of believing that Jesus died and rose is the hope that He will return. In other words, the return of Christ is as certain as His death and resurrection.

        Verse 15 says: According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. *end*

        Paul states that those believers who make up the church of Jesus Christ will rise together when Jesus returns. Those who are asleep will meet up with their spirits, while those who are alive will rise and be given a new glorified body. The bottom line is this: We all are simultaneously given new bodies.

        verse 16: For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. *end*

        The return of Jesus will occur with three sounds: Christ’s shout, the archangel’s voice, and the trumpet of God.

        There is the breakdown. It’s not hard. Beliving in Jesus Christ is a beautiful thing. But the Word of God does not need anyone to add words, or twist them to suit their need.

        Gordon, I do not say this to make you mad, or angry. But I say this and hope, that you see the Word of God is the complete truth.

        God Bless.

  2. I simply am amazed at your ignorance and unbelief. I trust in the Holy Scriptures and study them to show myself approved. Jesus Christ is my Lord and Savior and my God. I will respond to your quetion and then shake the dust from my feet and leave this blind place that walks in the dark.

    When Jesus instructed to let the dead bury the dead it should be noted their was no difference between those with a shovel and those in the grave. In other words, both were dead. When you believe that the Father sent the Son, to us in the flesh, to save us from our sins, that person passes from death to life. However, even though that person is to remain alive for enternity, the body will die. Christians are buried every day of the year and that bodily death is not spiritual death. To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. However, those that are present with the Lord after their death only have their spirit and soul as the sinful body was left in the grave. When Jesus Comes the Second time (it will be for the last time as well) Jesus is going to resurrect those dead bodies of Christians and reunite them with their soul and spirit, but at that time their body will be raise incorruptible. It will be an eternal body that will never die again, Just like the body of Jesus. He is going to raise the lost and spiritually dead also at His coming. They will be placed on His left and sent to hell. However, they will not have a spirit, just a soul and body and thus will be forever separated from G-d even though they will have a body that will never die. It will be pure hell.

    I don’t know why you don’t understaqnd these things and will chalk it up to the fact you don’t want to learn the whole of Scriptures but are a cafeteria Christian and just pick and choose what your itchy ears want to hear. I dont’ need to rack my brains about the turth, Jesus will straighten you out at His coming.

    Good bye but I can’t leave the Lord’s blessing on such rebelious site. I can only recommend that you study all of scripture and that it is profitable for correction and instruction and doctrine and theology, but only if it is not subtracted or added from the whole.

    AMEN

    1. Gordon,

      Your Comment: I simply am amazed at your ignorance and unbelief.

      My Comment: Same here.

      This verse 17 says so much: 17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.

      Get that Gordon..We who are still alive will be caught up and be with the Lord forever.

      You can believe it God’s Word or continue to twist.

      Either way the bible says: Romans 14:11 It is written: “‘As surely as I live,’ says the Lord, ‘every knee will bow before me; every tongue will confess to God.'”

      May God Bless you Gordon, and may Christ touch your heart so you can see the truth in God’s Word.

      1. Gloria,

        What exactly is your point? I’m not teaching that every knee will not bow before Jesus Christ and never even hinted at such a thing. I am not teaching that we that are alive will not be caught up to be with the Lord, either.

        I am teaching the “after that” which is the resurrection of the dead which is equal to dead bodies coming out of the ground, and only then will we be caught up to be with the Lord. Let me number this for you:

        1. Christ first raises the dead bodies back to life from the graves. (This is what is called the resurection of the dead).

        2. After the dead bodies are given new bodies that cannot die, only then, are the folks that haven’t died changed in the twinkle of an eye and given a new body that doesn’t die. (This is what you call the “rapture”.) It is just a part of the “resurrection of the dead” and it only amounts to a few in number compared to all the dead that have died in Christ since the beginning of time.

        Both happen but the main point is that all that are in their graves, come out at the command of Jesus Christ, FIRST.

        Those that are alive (still living at Christ’s return with their sinful body) will be changed and follow the saints that were just given their new bodies to be at the right hand of Jesus Christ, SECOND.

        Thus, what you call the “rapture” happens at the tail end or is second to the resurrection of the dead. I can assure you that I already have the blessing of God and that my heart was touched some 53 years ago when I accepted Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior at ten years old. I can see the truth but doubt you can. I have given proof using the very Word of God that you don’t seem to follow or understand. What else can I do but give up? If the Holy Spirit doesn’t convince you then I surely can’t. I really believe you are more interested in proving a “rapture” than studying the fact that the Resurrection of the Dead comes “first” and that it comes on the “last day” just like Jesus clearly teaches four times in the Gospel of John, Chapter 6, which I have previously quoted.

        AMEN

        AMEN

      2. Dear Gordon.

        Shalom.

        You wrote:

        I am teaching the “after that” which is the resurrection of the dead which is equal to dead bodies coming out of the ground, and only then will we be caught up to be with the Lord.

        My reply:

        At first look, our disagreement seems to be a minor issue. What comes first. The resurrection of the dead, or the rapture. Because you do believe in the rapture, that we will be “caught up” to be with the Lord.

        The issue seems to be, that you feel we will only be “caught up” to be with the Lord on the ground. That is six feet higher that being buried. But the Bible do not say that. The Bible say we will be “caught up” to meet the Lord in the air.

        The second issue: Who are the dead that will rise from the grave? Will Jesus summon those who have already entered Heaven, back into the dust for the Earth, to raise them six feet up?

        If you believe in this doctrine, you might have been a Seven Day Adventist for the last 53 years of your life. They do believe in soul sleep, and that both Heaven and Earth and mostly unpopulated places, and that all men, dead or alive, are awaiting the final judgment.

        That is not Christianity.

        Please explain to us.

      3. Gordon,

        When I quoted Romans 14:11, it was to say to you that we all have to give account to what we have done and have said to God. I have sinned, and I sin every day asking God to forgive me for those sins, and he in his love and compassion does exactly that. You preach a different version of what the Holy Word of God says, and that is something you will have to answer for, unless you ask Christ for forgiveness.

        Your Comment: I have given proof using the very Word of God that you don’t seem to follow or understand.

        My Comment: And I have given you a breakdown of the very verses.

        Your Comment: I really believe you are more interested in proving a “rapture” than studying the fact that the Resurrection of the Dead

        My Comment: I don’t have to prove anything. God’s Word is simple and straight to the point. When someone asks about the Word of God to me, I look to the bible for the answer.

        God Bless.

    2. Dear Gordon.

      Shalom.

      To the rulers of his day, The High priest and religious men in office, Jesus was surely a “rebellious site”.

      I have not spam you, and you are welcome back to a debate on faith at any time. Please do not trust your teachers, but believe in the Word of God as it is written.

      May Jesus the Messiah, the servant of God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, keep on rebuking you and discipline you, and guide you into the narrow path. Amen.

      1. To all my readers.

        Shalom.

        Was Jesus polite to false teachers?

        Absolutely not.

        Jesus called those who mislead people for sons of Hell, whitewash tombs, and brood of vipers.

        Why did Jesus brand them with such words?

        Simply because He loved them, by telling them the truth. If he gave them goodies and empty words, They would not repent.

        Jesus had a couple of issues with such persons, and you might be one of them:

        Either you will twist the Word of God, and have no faith in what is written: Or you live a double life, and are a hypocrite.

        By your life and actions, you will prove if you obey Jesus. Many shall come to you, and claim they know Him.

        Test all spirits, and look for fruits.

        A good three, can not give you bad fruits…..

      2. I can assure you that Jesus Christ is my only God and Savior, that He has come in the flesh while born of a virgin, is not going to rebuke me for teaching the truth. There may be some other Jesus out there not happy with me, but it ain’t God’s One and Only Son. I already follow the narrow path and believe every single word of the 66 books of the Bible. I certainly don’t need you to teach me, as I have the Holy Spirit. And like I’ve told Gloria if the Holy Spirit doesn’t convince you, then surely I can’t. I will leave it up to the Holy Spirit, but will not stop teaching that Christ will come soon on the last day and raise the dead and give them new immortal bodies. Only, then, will those that are alive in sinful bodies, be changed. Not only the just, but the unjust as well at the same hour on the same day. The sheep will go on the right side of Christ and the goats will go on the left side of Christ and into everlasting hell for not believing that Christ came to earth, born of a virgin, died for our sins, and was raised from the dead.

        AMEN

  3. Gloria

    I will try to respond when I get home from work but have much to do and may not get back until after Thanksgiving.

    Gordon

    1. Dear Gordon.

      Shalom.

      Something to reflect on during thanksgiving.

      You wrote:

      Obviously the dead bodies that are caught up to be with the Lord must come out of the ground and the fact that they will be with the Lord obviously means they have risen high enough to be with Jesus Christ for ever and ever whatever height is required.

      My reply:

      You duck the main question, of the elect being caught up in the air to met the Lord.

      Matthew 24:31
      And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

      This in plain words. “the four winds” and “end of the heavens”. You still refuse to believe the Word as it is written.

      If you bail out on this verse, all other verses might have a different meaning than what is written in the Bible. And such a view is based on faithlessness, and doctrines made by men.

  4. Okay, I am at lunch and will try to respond. It’s been so long I want to remind everyone why I jumped onto this thread. Mainly, that the “Rapture” is not our “Blessed Hope” because all those that have died trusting Jesus Christ are anticipating getting a new immortal body at the return of Christ. This is a span of 6,000 years. The only folks that will participate in the “Rapture” are only those that are alive at His coming when He gives a great SHOUT.

    In both Thess. and Corinthians it is clear that bodies are coming out of the ground at this “great SHOUT’. And these bodies experience the “resurrection of the dead” because they had fallen asleep (so-to-speak) and were buried with the anticipation of the “resurrection”.

    If we can’t agree that Christ is coming to resurrect the dead then our ways must separate. I don’t want you to listen to my views but only to the Word of God.

    Let’s see if the dead come alive or not before the Rapture:

    1 Cor. 15:52 “In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump, for the trumpet shall sound, and THE DEAD SHALL BE RAISED INCORRUPTIBLE, and we shall be changed.” Thus the Rapture follows the “resurrection of the dead” and the resurrection of the dead is the same thing as “the dead shall be raised incorruptible.”

    What about 1 Thessalonians does it agree with the above? Sure enough:

    1 Thess 4:16 “For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and wit the trump of God; AND THE DEAD IN CHRIST SHALL RISE FIRST:” So we have the same thing with the dead rising first and then comes the Rapture. The main event is the resurrection of the dead and not the Rapture. It is only comforting to know that when Jesus comes and raises the dead He won’t leave behind the alive Christians living on earth at that day.

    Now we must see who are the dead that are coming out of the ground and being raised and on what day? Jesus tells us four times:

    John 6:39 “but should raise it up again at the last day”

    John 6:40 “and I will raise him up at the last day”

    John 6:44 “and I will raise him up at the last day”

    John 6:54 “and I will raise him up at the last day”

    Who is going to be raised up on the last day? Well if you read all the above verses you will see it is every single Christian that trusts in Jesus Christ with nobody left out!

    Since you are a lady, let me tell you what Martha had to say about this fact, because she knew what she had been taught. John 11:24 shows the facts, “I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day”. She knew for a fact that the resurrection of the dead would take place on the last day, what she didn’t know was that Jesus was going to raise Lazarus in just a few more minutes, but that doesn’t negate the fact that the resurrection takes place on the last day. You mentioned Daniel, let’s see when Daniel will be raised:

    “But go thou thy way till the end be for thou shalt rest and stand in thy lot at the end of days.” Daniel 12:13. This agrees that Daniel, along with all that have died in Christ Jesus, will be raised on the last day.

    But there is more. Not only will the saved be raised on the last day but so will the lost. Here are the exact words of Jesus Christ, Himself:

    “Marvel not at this; for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice. And shall come forth; they that have done good unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.” John 5:28-29. It all happens at the same hour and you can bet it is on the last day.

    Jesus carefully told us by the Holy Spirit that when He returns there will be know early or separate escape for anyone. All would be caught at the same time. Read the parable of the tares and wheat, the fish net, etc, etc.

    Most importantly read Matthew 24 starting at v.29 and you will have an outline that gives the events exactly as I’ve been teaching.

    AMEN

    1. Gordon,

      Above you wrote:

      4. The sheep (saints) are put on the right side of Jesus Christ.
      5. The goats (the lost) are put on the left side

      And I responded with:
      My Comment: Do you hold a post tribulation view? Where you think the rapture occurs, and from the sheep and goats comment- judgement occurs? If that was the case, why wouldn’t Paul have mentioned it in (1 Thess, 4:16-18)?

      Also if Matthew 25:31-34 (sheep and goats) occured at the end of the tribulation (this is assuming I understand what you wrote) there would be no sheep left on earth to divide, only goats.

      I believe the goats and sheep will occur after the tribulation.

      Please read my November 23, 2010 at 8:25 pm message for the rest of it.

      Now 1 Thess 4:16 you seem to think the important and main attraction of this verse is : the dead shall rise first. What makes you think that the dead shall rise first is the most important part of this verse? What makes you not think that the whole verse is important? In other words, essentially you’re saying the dead shall rise first is the most significant part.

      And also you did write above that the sheep and goat seperation will occur at this moment. Yet, there are bible verses that state this will happen when (Matt. 25:31-32)after the coming of Christ. The parable is about the time of judgment.

      Also Gordon let me point out your two comments Since you are a lady, and The Adam and Eve comment above.

      Now you’re not suggesting that because I’m a lady I should always hold to the man having the correct view in everything? Please tell me that’s not what you’re suggesting 🙂

      And in regards to John 5:28-29, I believe it is in connection with Revelation 20:12-15.

      This discussion has been very interesting. Discussing biblical verses should always be done with respect-just a general view I believe in.

      God Bless

  5. Gloria,

    Let’s keep this real simple.

    Are the dead raised before the rapture or after the rapture given what the Scriptures state?

    “But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep lest you sorrow as other who have no hope”

    “For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep.”

    “For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise.”

    Again, given the above verses, will the dead who have fallen asleep in Christ rise before or after the Rapture? What do you think?

    AMEN

    1. Dear Gordon.

      Shalom.

      I feel we should close this topic. It is a very simply disagreement we have.

      1. Enock did not face death, but was taken away from God.
      2. Elijah was raptured.
      3. In Mathew 24, Jesus speaking about His angel not walking on the ground to collect His children, but angles who will catch them in the “winds and our of the heavens.”
      4. Jesus speaks about people being taken away from the fields, and others left behind. Married couples will be separated even in beds.
      5. The Jewish apostle Paul speaks about “us” who are alive, who will meet the Lord in the “air”
      6. The Book of Revelation chapter 11, speaks about a rapture of two lamb stands, two trees, who are His two witnesses.

      You are one of those who will be left behind, and will have to admit you were wrong. You made the words of the Bible null and void, and misguided people in your flock.

      In the movie, Left Behind, there is a funny picture of the Church being taken away, and only the Pastor is left behind. Gordon, you are in danger of being one of these men. Mind my words the day the trumpet sound, and you can not find the true Christians on Earth anymore.

    2. Gordon,

      I feel like we’re going around in circles. When I read the scriptures of God, I take him at his Word. I do not need to add to God’s Word, with what I think it means. Again God’s Word is straighforward and direct.

      I agree with Ivar’s points list below. There seems to be a way about you where you “interpret” God’s Words and incorporate your own meaning.

      This will be my last post to you about this to you.

      May God Bless you and show you the right path.

  6. Not worried one iota of missing anything. Jesus is my Savior and I believe His every word. Keep thinking you are right, even when God’s word is telling you differently. Why? All because you believe in stupid movie more than the Word of God.

    The Holy Spirit tells that sound doctrine will be rejected in the last days. Nothing is more sound doctrine than “And the dead in Christ will rise First.” Which means what you call the “rapture” will happen after Christ returns and raises the dead on the last day. Sort of shoots a big hole in “Left Behind” fictional movie. But I guess I’m not suprised you can’t understand the simple Word of God. It begins by asking for wisdom and using ALL SCRIPTURE FOR DOCTRINE, REPROOF, AND SOUND INSTRUCTION, and not some stupid movie.

    AMEN

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