“The Holy Scriptures cannot be used to justify the return of Jews to Israel”.
These are the words of Cyril Salim Bustros, the Lebanon-born Greek archbishop of Our Lady of the Annunciation in Boston, Massachusetts.
The full sentence is as followed:
“The Holy Scriptures cannot be used to justify the return of Jews to Israel and the displacement of the Palestinians, to justify the occupation by Israel of Palestinian lands”.
Bustros rejected the idea of Israel as “the Jewish state,” and insisted that eventually all the so-called “Palestinian refugees” must return to the land, a sure recipe for the demographic destruction of the world’s only Jewish nation-state.
Mordechai Levi, Israel’s ambassador to the Vatican, decried Bustros’ comments and the damage they had done to strengthening ties between Israel and the Church.
The Catholic Church has for years been trying to repair its image as an institution steeped in anti-Semitism. But Bustros’ remarks make fairly clear that the Vatican remains as dedicated as ever to replacement theology – that teaching that says God has tossed aside the Jews, despite is irrevocable promises to them, and that “the Church” has instead inherited those promises.
Source: Israeli Magazine, Israel Today.
I read the article somewhere where it states exactly that: “The Holy Scriptures cannot be used to justify the return of Jews to Israel and the displacement of the Palestinians, to justify the occupation by Israel of Palestinian lands”.
My Comment: How many of these unbelievers who refuse to even acknowledge Christ-how many of them will acknowledge our King too late. It is a sad sight to see. 2 Peter 3:9 says: The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance. *end*
Even so (and I pray for the lost souls) many will realize that they were wrong too late.
The return of the Jews to Israel, is a matter of trust. Can we trust God, and his eternal promises?
and say to them, ‘This is what the Sovereign LORD says: I will take the Israelites out of the nations where they have gone. I will gather them from all around and bring them back into their own land.
(end of scriptures).
Jesus did not come to replace His Father. Neither to delete eternal promises. He came to fulfill all promises. Take a look at the regathering of Jews in 1948 and the rebirth of Israel, and the Words of Ezekiel. Rejoice and be glad. When the Messiah returns, He will save all of Israel.
And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: “The deliverer will come from Zion; he will turn godlessness away from Jacob.
Pretty clear words.
I agree with everything you mentioned Ivar.
It is just my wish that everyone see that Christ is king, and repent from their sins.
Why is it that Palestinian Arabs, both Christian and Moslem, continue to pay for the sins of Christian Europeans and their multiple centuries of brutal anti-Semitism?
It is absurd to suggest that the nation of Israel is somehow a fulfillment of God’s promise to the Jews. The existence of Israel may be partly due to the fervent belief in that promise, (which some Jews hold to) but is mostly due to the sheer force of will of the Jews who against all sorts of odds were able to create a nation. The idea that all Jews have a “right of return” is a great offense, and the idea that Israel has a “right to exist” Nations do not have rights, they exert rights, claim them, act as if they have them, but they are not “given” or innate, or God-given, or God-promised. Israel is not a special nation, the Holy Land is a myth, useful to some, but not worth the blood and despair of the hundreds of thousands of Palestinians who continue to suffer occupation and colonization.
Your Comment: It is absurd to suggest that the nation of Israel is somehow a fulfillment of God’s promise to the Jews.
My Comment: I take it you don’t believe in our Savior Jesus Christ. But your non belief and you vehement response towards God’s promise, doesn’t make it less true. Israel is God’s promised land, and our Messiah is coming. Those who have an open heart, and repent will be with out King. And those who reject him outright, well the bible says what will happen.
Joel 3:1-2: “FOR BEHOLD, in those days and at that time when I shall reverse the captivity and restore the fortunes of Judah and Jerusalem, I will gather all nations and will bring them down into the Valley of Jehoshaphat, and there will I deal with and execute judgment upon them for their treatment of My people and of My heritage Israel, whom they have scattered among the nations and because they have divided My land.”
Perhaps you are unaware of the history of evangelical Christianity and its vehement anti-Semitism. Only after modern day Israel was formed did some evangelicals discover the “true” meaning of the passage (and others) that you quote.
Modern day Israeli Jews will accept ideological support from practically anyone, even Christians who regard Israel as a sign in the true (Christian) God’s plan for true believers. They understand that such Christians do not really love and accept Jews for who they are, but rather for what they represent in the Christian world-view (that particular Christian world-view)
Having been a born-again Christian for many years and a student of the Scriptures and follower of Christ I identify with the Jesus of the Sermon on the Mount, the one who answered that the highest commandment is to love your neighbor as yourself. This is to me the heart and soul of Christianity. Not very exciting, no bugles blowing or angels descending, not much to hang one’s hat on, not much to get into big arguments over, but not that easy either. Jesus suggested that the most despised person to the Jews (the Samaritan) was actually a better neighbor (better person, more holy)
because he treated a stranger with compassion. Israeli Jews and Arab Christians and Muslims are neighbors. As badly as Palestinians have been portrayed, the Israeli Jews have been far far worse, in my opinion. And American Christians who do not suffer the consequences of their naive fantasies about the Jewish state continue to blindly support whatever the state of Israel thinks it needs to do. It is deeply shameful. I suggest that you travel to Palestine and spend time in the Christian communities there. These churches go back to the time of the apostles. They are still there. Perhaps by learning from these brethren, you may gain some insight into the plight of all the Palestinians, Muslim and Christian alike.
Shalom, and welcome to this site.
As a Bible believer, I do have the Word of God as the final authority. The land of Israel, belongs to God of the Bible.
In regards to the state of Israel, both Jews and Israeli Arabs do commit mistakes. But they have built the only free and democratic state in the Middle East, where Jews and Muslims live i peace with each others, and respect Christians and give them freedom of religion and worship.
Do you find this kind of value system in Saudi Arabia?
Do the Islamic Republic of Iran represent the values you promote?
Jesus the Messiah was a Jew. He will come back as the Lion of Judah, and the root of Jewish King David. He will not come back as the Lamb of God, but as a Judge. People who reject Him, will face eternity separated from the love of a compassionate and forgiving God the Father.
Do Jesus love the Jewish people?
Absolutely. He restored the Jewish people in 1948. He will come back in the clouds of Heaven and collect His Church, and He will return to Jerusalem to save Israel from the final attack where all other nations have gathered against her. Amen.
Well said, Ivar
the values I would promote would be the biblical mandates concerning justice and love,
and the sermon on the mount and the teachings of Jesus.
I am not defending Islam as a religion or any particular Arab or Islamic state. My comment had to do with the fairly recent adoption, by some Christians, of the modern state Israel as a cause somehow connected to an interpretation of biblical prophecy.
One of the advantages of the study of Christian history is that you learn that in virtually every single period of time in the last 2000 years some Christians have believed that they were in the “end times” and they mostly were using scriptures to make their case. It can be well argued that the early apostles themselves deeply believed that Christ would return in their lifetimes. The interpretation that the founding of Israel in 1948 is connected to prophecy is stands proudly in that tradition, but until that happened Christians were not interpreting the passage that way. It was only after the fact that people decided to interpret the passages that way. That is not an opinion of mine, just a reading of Christian history.
The Word is the Word, but our interpretation is our interpretation. Humility teaches us to not over-reach. We know enough of what the kingdom is about, the gospels are full of references. Our focus needs to be, in my opinion, learning better how to love each other, not fuss over the fine distinctions.
If Jesus loves Jews as you suggest I would add that he love Muslims just as well. His love knows no qualifications or limits and neither should ours.
I suggest you do further study on the history of modern Israel and you might find some dissenting voices on how free it is, and democratic. They have effectively created an apartheid state in the West Bank. Gaza is essentially a gigantic walled-in ghetto.
Making a fetish out of the state of Israel…
just doesn’t fit with my understanding of the prophets and Jesus.
They have effectively created an apartheid state in the West Bank. Gaza is essentially a gigantic walled-in ghetto.
Israel is not an apartheid state. There are two million Israeli Arabs living inside the state of Israel, with full citizenship. The majority of them are Muslims.
Let me tell you about the real Apartheid states in the Middle East. In Saudi Arabia you will be arrested if you take Bible with you inside the city. You are not allow to build Churches, neither is there any freedom or religion, nor any respect for human rights. You have the same totalitarian fascist rule in nations like Syria and Iran.
In regards to Gaza, the horrible Islamic rule inside this terrorist camp, have made the Muslim nation of Egypt close its border with Gaza. To blame Israel for this closed border to curb Islamic terrorism, is a blunt lie. Gaza, and nations like Syria, Saudi Arabia and Iran are as free for Jews, as Nazi-Germany was after 1941. Let me remind you that the government of Israel in 2005 forced its Jewish population to leave Gaza, and let the Arab Palestinians destroy and burn the existing synagogues.
The Israeli leaders did withdraw from Gaza, and have tried absolutely everything, except suicide, in a bid to get peace.
If a nation like Iran would be given a chance to copy the Holocaust, it would do so.
You have purchased Islamic lies about the state of Israel without any moral scruples. Please repent. If you do not, you will surely bring a curse up on your head and you will perish. I tell you this, because I love you.
Honestly I don’t get your point of view.
Your Comment: My comment had to do with the fairly recent adoption, by some Christians, of the modern state Israel as a cause somehow connected to an interpretation of biblical prophecy.
My Comment: You say you believe in Christ’s teachings concerning just and love, but how can you not take his whole Word of God as the truth? God has promised throught the bible that Israel is his promised land. How can you deny that fact? There are thousands of prophecies that have come true from the Word of God. There are prophecies that have not come true, BUT YOU NEVER see a prophecy that simply never came true. Because God’s word is eternal.
You simply have to change your views soon, because Christ return is near, and you wouldn’t want to miss out on what he has planned for his believers.
Your Comment: Making a fetish out of the state of Israel…
just doesn’t fit with my understanding of the prophets and Jesus.
My Comment: Not believing the plans God has for Jews and Gentile’s alike is not believing in his World.
“Blessed is the man who trusts in the Lord,
whose trust is the Lord.
He is like a tree planted by water,
that sends out its roots by the stream,
and does not fear when heat comes,
for its leaves remain green,
and is not anxious in the year of drought,
for it does not cease to bear fruit.”
That’s a pretty good one Gloria but it could mean something else. The passage is opposite in older bibles. http://bible.cc/joel/3-1.htm
Old Bibles it reads Joel 3:1 “for behold, in those days, and at that time I shall bring again the captivity of Judah and Jerusalem… It was Judah who had a part in the land to be divided. The king Rohaboam, son of Soloman threatened to tax them even worse than Soloman taxed them and whip them worse, and there was a rebellion and kingdom divided. The end of that passage talks of Isreal being One and being united, having one king.
Captivity of Judah and Jerusalem could mean captivity of Satan, worshipping idols and whatnot as it was before Jehoshaphat started to restore things. Another coincidence is that Jehoshaphat attempted to reunite Judah and Israel but was disgusted by the king of Isreal’s idolatry who even sacrificed his own son. In the story of Jehoshaphat all the nations came against Judah and God caused their enemies to destroy each other and Judah cleaned up afterwards, getting rich on the spoils. Also Fits with Revelations that Jerusalem will be like Sodom and Egypt at the end times, Before Christ returns and removes all doubt who God is.
Not to say the Catholic Bishops are right. I think the Land Israel will someday be reunited and a possession of the Jews exactly like he says it will, but that is end times and the Catholic lies should hold up well until then.
By presenting your personal opinion, you make the Word of God null and void. Repent Ed.
This is what the Bible says:
1 “In those days and at that time,
when I restore the fortunes of Judah and Jerusalem,
2 I will gather all nations
and bring them down to the Valley of Jehoshaphat.
There I will enter into judgment against them
concerning my inheritance, my people Israel,
for they scattered my people among the nations
and divided up my land.
The Amplified Bible:
Joel 3:1: FOR BEHOLD, in those days and at that time when I shall reverse the captivity and restore the fortunes of Judah and Jerusalem.
It is very unfortunate that people make their own religion, and use the Bible as is was some kind of fairytale book. These verses of Joel, do not need any further explanation.
Even in the New King James version, this message from God can not be misunderstood:
“For behold, in those days and at that time, When I bring back the captives of Judah and Jerusalem,
You ignore this one, KJV “for behold, in those days, and at that time I shall bring again the captivity of Judah and Jerusalem.
And several other versions also have it like that, http://bible.cc/joel/3-1.htm
It’s not my personal opinion, All facts, you repent.
“I shall bring again the captivity”.
You can take any line out of the Bible, and make any kind of doctrines, and make it fit into any kinds of teachings. I suggest you lean to read more than one line, and open your heart to the message.
I agree with Ivar. There are certain verses that are straight up and direct like: for example John 10:30 I and the Father are One.
And there are certain verses which you cannot simply quote one line, without reading the whole story. For example you only quote a few words from the KJV, without quoting the entire Joel 3 (first few verses) that we are discussing.
To take it out of context, means you are giving it your own meaning.
I would suggest kindly, that you read the whole chapter Joel 3 to get what Christ means.
What is it that something else that you think it could mean Ed?
For ultimately Christ will come, deal his judgement because HE IS just and holy, and Christ will reign from Israel.
Well, whichever way, It only says whatever is restored is restored to Judah and Jerusalem, the southern part of Israel. So the palestinians staying there until the end times fits with scriptures. Israel was first divided by the Jews themselves by rebellion. Israel to the north and Judah in the south. The last straw was when the king of Judah said this:
“Whereas my father laid upon you a heavy yoke, so shall I add tenfold thereto. Whereas my father chastised (tortured) you with whips, so shall I chastise you with scorpions. For my littlest finger is thicker than my father’s loins; and your backs, which bent like reeds at my father’s touch, shall break like straws at my own touch.”
I’m just saying you paste your source as Wikepedia, when we should paste our source as the Word of God.
History is hard to deny.
The bible is always the truth.
I simply fail to understand you. You have made for your self a private religion, read the Bible believing that simple verses have deep hidden message only you seems to understand, and you fail to respond to simple questions and corrections.
My point Gloria is every generation since Christ has had a group of Christians who believe that the prophecies have come/are coming true. This has been the case pretty much from the beginning. Each generation has also had those Christians who are less concerned about “end times” and living a good Christian life of love and justice.
It is clear that you have great confidence in your interpretation of the Bible. It even appears that you
have confused your interpretation of the Word with the actual Word. It is a difficult thing, I know.
Which is why I tend to focus on those things that seem most clear and unambiguous, which is, for me, the teachings of Jesus about love and mercy.
To suggest that my salvation somehow is linked to whether I believe in your interpretation of the end times strikes me as rather presumptuous and to my mind, decidedly “unChristian”
To tie God’s hands to the fate of one particular nation
and then to teach that it’s all going to blow up soon anyway seems a bit wacky to me. It borders on a kind of idolatry of course.
Peace, be well,
I won’t post here again, it seems you are very firm in your beliefs and reject dialogue about issues which some think are complex (that would be me).
(The real problem is the confusion of one’s particular interpretation with the God-intended meaning. This is why humility is one of the very highest of the virtues.
It appears that you don’t really care about Israel, not the actual Israel, never mind the Palestinian Christians and Muslims who are suffering. What matters to you is a kind of time-line, a Plan that is underway, a set of boxes to be checked, and then waiting for Glory. This is ultimately an anti-human position, and anti-historical, anti-life, the goodness of life, the goodness of creation, the importance of the work to help people to learn to live together.
It is a sad and negative view, and too melodramatic and self-absorbed for me.)
Your Comment: My point Gloria is every generation since Christ has had a group of Christians who believe that the prophecies have come/are coming true.
My Comment: With all due respect Dan, but you have to be literally blind to the fact that the signs are there EXACTLY as the Jesus Christ said would be.
Take a look at Luke 21:11 There will be great earthquakes, and in various places famines and pestilences. And there will be terrors and great signs from heaven.
Now take a look at this site. We’re not even done with 2010 and there have been many earthquakes reported. http://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/eqarchives/year/eqstats.php
And how about this: Brazilians being FORCED to use tracking devices in there cars. No it’s not the mark of the beast. But its definitely a step towards it. http://blacklistednews.com/Brazilians-will-be-forced-to-use-RFID-chips-and-GPS-trackers-in-their-cars-/11263/0/10/10/Y/M.html
And this a HUGE LIE: http://santacruz.patch.com/articles/ufos-jesus-and-a-message-of-sharing
Did you know that in Manhattan (NY) people claimed to see UFO’s in the sky? They videotaped, and showed it. Satan is a liar, and always will be.
But you know what I did? I prayed, and I said thank you Jesus because we are one step closer to your coming.
John 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and will take you to myself, that where I am you may be also.
I could post so many things going on now, and compare it to God’s word, and like I said you’d have to be blind not to realize Jesus Christ is coming.
I signed off with Gloria, and much of what I wrote to her also relates to your questions and concerns. But to respond I will add/repeat that I am not discussing here the Arab and Islamic states, I was responding to the original issue that some think that the Bible somehow justifies or endorses the modern state of Israel. I understand that many “end-time” minded Christians believe that Israel is tied up with biblical prophecy and have taken that belief to the extent that they unquestioningly support the government of Israel. Other readings of the Scriptures yeild different conclusions. Faithful people can disagree.
I believe that Israel is a nation like any other nation and to treat it like a special nation leads to serious moral compromise.
The odd thing is that most “end-time” Israel-loving Christians aren’t really interested in Judaism or Israel, but how Israel fits into “God’s plan for the end-times”
very ironic, don’t you think?
as a parting gift, here is a link to a piece I read at church recently:
Lets talk about the so-called “Westbank”. its the funniest constructed river bank of them all, claimed to be the bank of the river Jordan.
It reaches the level of 3.000 feet, and is the mountain range called Zion. It contains the districts of Judea and Samaria, the Biblical heartland of Israel. The tombs of the Jewish fathers, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is buried there.
When did this Biblical land become the land of Islam?
Do you know that the name Isaac has been deleted in the Koran?
In 1948, the Islamic Kingdom of Jordan invaded and occupied Judea and Samaria. This land had never been the properties of any Arabic Kingdom, nether had there ever been a nation who had ruled this area, with Jerusalem as its capital. Only because the Jews had cultivated this land, and returned home as the Bible had foretold, Muslims invaded and occupied this area.
From 1517 A.D to 1917 A.D this land had been occupied by the Turkish Islamic caliphate, with Istanbul as its European capital. This Islamic Kingdom was a brutal, totalitarian Muslim Kingdom, called the Ottoman Empire. It created a genocide, and killed 1,5 million Armenian Christians between 1914 and 1915.
Is it this kind of rulers, you want to return to the “Westbank”?
When the Jordanian army invaded Jerusalem in 1948, they put up a wall. The Jews were hunted down, and expelled. East Jerusalem became as free for Jews as Berlin was during the reign of Nazi-leader Adolf Hitler. The Jordanian army blew up and burned down more than 20 synagogues, that had existed in the city since ancient times.
Is it this kind of rule you desire back in East Jerusalem, to “protect” the Arabian Christians?
You fools, you brood of vipers. You have not learned anything from history, and you are again ready to support and work with the devil.
You keep not responding to my points. And you seem to be full of hate towards people who don’t agree with you. Please remove from getting any further email updates from your blog.
Please remind me about what kind of questions I have not replied to. I will sincerely try to give good answers.
I am sorry, that you want to discontinue reading this blob. I wish I could help you stopping sending emails, but I am not able to remove you from the email updates you freely signed you wanted to receive. Try to block these incoming emails in your spam system. It should not be to difficult.
I pray that Jesus the Messiah will keep on blessing you, and will lead you on the narrow path, through the narrow gate. I pray we both will be found in the Kingdom of Heaven. Amen.
You write: The odd thing is that most “end-time” Israel-loving Christians aren’t really interested in Judaism or Israel, but how Israel fits into “God’s plan for the end-times”
very ironic, don’t you think?
My Comment: Again, with all due respect Dan. How do you know what “most” people are thinking? Myself, I don’t care where you come from, what nation or country you live in. I would still speak about Jesus Christ, in hopes that Christ touches that persons hear to repent. 1 Cor. 15:1-4
Ivar’s Comment: You fools, you brood of vipers. You have not learned anything from history, and you are again ready to support and work with the devil.
Your Comment: And you seem to be full of hate towards people who don’t agree with you.
My Comment: Where does Ivar say message indicate anything of hate? Broad of vipers is used several times in the bible. Here Matthew 12:34 and Here Matthew 23:33
Ultimately, if you do not serve Christ, then you are not of him.
Matthew 10:22 All men will hate you because of me, but he who stands firm to the end will be saved.
You fools, you brood of vipers.
This is not an exclusive message to Dan. I am sorry, and I will ask Him to forgive Me, because this message could be taken personally. I wrote to fools in plural.
John the Baptist gave the same message to “some people” who came to be baptized, but had not shown any sign of repentance. People who attack and defame the state of Israel needs to be told, that God of the Bible will throw into the fire of Hell those who harm the Jewish state and the Jewish people.
Jesus called “some people” brood of vipers. They were all hypocrites. There are plenty of them around.
If you read this message Dan, please accept my apology.
Your Comment: People who attack and defame the state of Israel needs to be told, that God of the Bible will throw into the fire of Hell those who harm the Jewish state and the Jewish people
My Comment: I agree with you completely Ivar. A friend once told me why does Israel think they can just occupy the land? What gives them the right? My answer: God gave them the promise and the right. Needless to say the friend was upset, and didn’t want to talk about it further. Me, I won’t back down from the truth.
A Catholic denounces Zionism? That’s rich considering Zionism originated in Rome.