Franklin Graham” The Pope backed my fathers crusade”

“In the early years, up in Boston, the Catholic church got behind my father’s crusade”.

Billy and Franklin Graham both works for ecumenism with the Vatican.

This is a statement of Franklin Graham in the US Newspaper Indianapolis Star.  Franklin Graham is the son TV evangelist Billy Graham.

Franklin Graham told the Indianapolis Star that his father’s ecumenical alliance with the Catholic Church and all other denominations “was one of the smartest things his father ever did” (“Keeping it simple, safe keeps Graham on high,” The Indianapolis Star, Thurs., June 3, 1999, p. H2).

He said: “In the early years, up in Boston, the Catholic church got behind my father’s crusade. That was a first. It took back many Protestants. They didn’t know how to handle it. But it set the example”.

‘If Billy Graham is willing to work with everybody, then maybe we should too’” (The Indianapolis Star, June 3, 1999).

Franklin Graham’s ecumenical direction is evident from the various forums he frequents, the same ones attended by his father.

In 1997, for example, he spoke at the National Religious Broadcasters in January, at Moody Bible Institute’s Founder’s Week in February, and at a Promise Keepers conference in Birmingham, Alabama, in May. That was at a time when one of the directors of Promise Keepers was a Roman Catholic.

Source: Sues blog.

My comment:

The truth is again in the pudding. Show me who you wine and dine with, and I will tell you who you are.

Read more about Billy Graham’ s anti-Jewish remarks.

Read more about “protestants” that have become knights of the Vatican.

54 thoughts on “Franklin Graham” The Pope backed my fathers crusade”

  1. In the book “Deadly Deception” by former Freemason Jim Shaw, published about twenty years ago (maybe earlier) Shaw explicitly stated that a “famous evangelist” was inaugurated into the 33. degree of Freemasonry at the same date he was – back in the early 60’s. Originally he wrote that it was Billy Graham, but the publisher didn’t dare to write that – because of fear of a court case.
    Doesn’t make it less true, though…

  2. This was interesting, Ivar. I don’t know how you characterize Billy Graham, but I’ll assume that he’s evil, condemned and all of those things that you say about those he wines and dines with.

    That definitely helps me to understand.

    Now, the one missing piece for me is a listing of preachers & ministers who are “true followers of Jesus”. I know you’re on the list, but who are the others?

    1. Dear Creation of Design.

      Shalom, and welcome back to this site.

      You are free to use irony, and you are free to question. But this issue is very simple, and even a child can understand.

      500 years ago, Martin Luther and all the major Church Reformers called the Pope in Rome for an antichrist. Today leading “protestants” call him the “Holy Father”

      You have to agree, that it is very close to impossible for the Pope to be both.

      1. The bible in revelations says Jews who are not Jews are the “Synagogue of Satan”. That would be the Jews who did not accept Christ. But,all the major religions seem to be at fault and against Christ these days, beast, false prophet, lawless one, all against Christ. Seems like he is gathering them all in one place to fulfill the prophesy, thou shalt lie in wait at his heel and he shall crush your head. Times running out.

      2. Dear Ed.

        Shalom.

        This is not true. The Jews who claimed to be Jews, but are not, are todays Muslims and the Catholics. They claim to have replaced the Jews, as God’s chosen people. They claim to be the true “Jews”, but are not.

        Please do not misuse the Bible, to spread antsemitism. What you wrote is Hitlers understanding of the Bible.

        There are also, and were in ancient times, false brethren among the Jewish people, that makes this issue complicated. This is also a reason why Jew-hate is spreading like wild fire.

      3. That seems to be Jesus’ interpretation of a Jew who is not a Jew. He said those who believed in him are the seed of Abraham, anyone who didn’t was cut off. So perhaps Hilters interpretation was meant to be demonized. It’s not that big of a deal to say they are the “synagogue of Satan”, it’s like they saying goes, there’s the devil in all of us. The trouble is not accepting the cure…It’s not my fight against the Jews, Islam or Catholics. Just saying the feet of Brass are going to crush thier heads.

      4. Dear Ed.

        Shalom.

        Deuteronomy 7:6-7

        For you are a people holy to the LORD your God. The LORD your God has chosen you out of all the peoples on the face of the earth to be his people, his treasured possession. The LORD did not set his affection on you and choose you because you were more numerous than other peoples, for you were the fewest of all peoples.

        (end of scripture)

        The Jews was selected by Jesus as His people, before He came in flesh. Their selection was not based up on the New Testament, but in regards to them following the Mosaic covenant.

        Revelation 2:9

        I know your afflictions and your poverty—yet you are rich! I know the slander of those who say they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan.

        (end of scripture)

        Here John writes about Messianic Believers, who are slandered by people who claimed to be Jews, but are not. That is ” Jews” who did not live by the Mosaic Covenant. If this it not the correct understanding of this verse, than Paul is contradicting the Bible in the letter to the Romans.

        Roman 11:1-3.

        I ask then: Did God reject his people? By no means! I am an Israelite myself, a descendant of Abraham, from the tribe of Benjamin.God did not reject his people, whom he foreknew. Don’t you know what the Scripture says in the passage about Elijah—how he appealed to God against Israel: “Lord, they have killed your prophets and torn down your altars; I am the only one left, and they are trying to kill me.

        (end of scripture)

        God of Israel will never reject his chosen people. He his faithful to his everlasting promises. That is why He has gathered this people home from all nations, and brought them back to the land of their forefathers, the state of Israel.

        if God looks up on Jews who do not believe Jesus is the Messiah, as children of Satan, than our God does the work of the devil. He does not. The Bible tells us He has loved the Jews with an everlasting love.

        Jeremiah 31:3
        The LORD appeared to us in the past, saying: “I have loved you with an everlasting love; I have drawn you with loving-kindness.

        In my Oxford dictionary, Everlasting means: For ever.

        Are all Jews saved by Jesus. Not at all. But only Jesus saves. So let us preach to them about the Messiah, and leave their salvation to Him.

  3. Creationbydesign,

    I already said in earlier post, if it ain’t in the bible it’s simply not true. And I gave two examples of your posts on catholics, where you take a biblical verse (not even a whole verse) and twist it to your own needs. My exact response (September 2 comment) can be seen here: https://ivarfjeld.wordpress.com/2010/09/01/catholics-pray-in-front-of-the-heart-of-st-camillus/

    Now I post the above again, because it has to deal with catholics, and their love of worshipping statues, amongst all the other wrongs they do. Why would they rather believe anything (a mere item) can heal, but they give no GLORY TO CHRIST first, which must always be done, simply because it is the truth.

    Now in regards here to Billy Graham and Franklin Graham associating themselves with Catholics, I write this verse: Exodus 20:1-15 And God spoke all these words, saying, “I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery. “You shall have no other gods before me. “You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. You shall not bow down to them or serve them, for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and the fourth generation of those who hate me, …

    The Grahams associating with catholics cancels out for me that the speak the true word of God.

    God is forever 100% correct.

    God Bless.

  4. Again, this is interesting.

    Ed is spreading “Jew hate”, misusing the Bible, and giveing Hitlers understanding of the Bible. That’s quite evil. Obviously, he cannot be a true follower of Jesus like Ivar is.

    500 years ago, Martin Luther and all the major Church Reformers called the Pope in Rome for an antichrist. Today leading “protestants” call him the “Holy Father”.

    Some people learn from their mistakes and come closer to the truth. They were wise enough to realize that Rev. Luther and fellow reformers were very wrong about that. Others still repeat their errors though.

    I see you avoided a simple question:

    Again, Ivar could you provide me a listing of preachers & ministers who are “true followers of Jesus”? I know you’re on the list, but who are the others?

    I’m just looking for names and locations – thanks.

    Gloria avoided it also.

    Do you know why?

    1. Dear Creation by design.

      Shalom.

      Hitlers reading of the Bible is the same as the Pope. So you are in good company. At least Ed humble him self, and ask where he do not fully understand.

      I feel that the Roman Catholic priest Martin Luther would be better in discerning the Papal system, than many “protestant” Church leaders who have hardly any knowledge about Rome. In Luther we got the truth from an insider.

      In regards to a list over true followers of Jesus, only The Holy Spirit knows the true number. And only He needs to know. We only need to look at the fruits. For every papist, its easy to make such a list. Because they just have to accept the Pope as the ” Holy Father”, and than they are accepted.

    2. Back to playing the viperous catholic truth hater Creation or are you really that naive? Writing off the truth simply because Hitler held the same interpretation still makes Satan your master. Jesus said those who believe in him are the seed of Abraham ie. jews. It’s fundamental Christian belief that You Must believe in Jesus to be saved. Therefore saying there will be Jews who are not jews is no stretch in drawing a line to Jews who did not accept Jesus. As a Christian it would be more accurate to call me a Jew than to call me a Christian.

      1. Dear Ed.

        Shalom.

        The Word “Christian” comes from “Christ”. That is not a Hebrew word. Its pagan Greek. I would rather call my self a Messianic believer. And my Master is not the Italian claimed to be “Holy father”, but a Jew from Nazareth.

      2. Hello to Ivar, with respect and love. Thanks for allowing me to post on your site.

        The New Testament was written in Greek, so that must mean God approved of the Greek language to be used. Agree? And we don’t have to learn Greek, Aramaic or Hebrew either. There is nothing wrong with using English. Using English does not hinder anyone from being saved. I called on the name of the Lord in His English pronounced name “Jesus” and He saved me.

        1 Peter 4:16
        However, if you suffer as a Christian, do not be ashamed, but praise God that you bear that name.

      3. Dear Victoria.

        Shalom.

        You are right. Let me underline. I am a Christian. I believe in Jesus from Nazareth. But since there is so much misunderstandings about who the “Christian’s” are, I rather prefer to call my self a Messianic believer. It makes more sense to me. The World shall know that I have the Jewish Messiah as my Master.

    3. Creation By Design:

      You said “Obviously, he cannot be a true follower of Jesus like Ivar is.” Your sarcasm isn’t lost on anyone.

      You also stated you wanted a “list” of true believers of Christ. You say I avoided answering your question. And you avoided answering, “Why would you believe a mere thing would cause a person to heal, instead of believing the truth that FAITH IN JESUS CHRIST is what healed.” I’d say with your avoidance -we’re even. FYI: The Holy Bible -God’s word says many false prophets will arise and we are to be careful. You side with men like Graham who associates with Catholics, yet now correct me if I’m wrong-it seems as if you avoid knowing what the true word of Christ means (example: Matthew 9 where Christ heals the sick.)

      Also you trying to pin animosity between Ed and Ivar is a bit childish. We as believers of Jesus Christ must always follow God’s word and adhered to the bible always.

      You want me to correct Ed in the ways of the Pope? I have no reason to believe in the Pope since he is a false teacher, praising statues, and such believing that those objects can heal instead of Christ. Nope…I have no reason to teach anyone in false teachers.

      Again you want a list of true followers? I say pick up the bible and read about the false prophets, teachers, end times, and how JESUS CHRIST heals, and how he is the only one who can save. Then you can start creating your “important” list of followers.

      1. Yeah, thanks Gloria,

        One thing I would change that I’ve wrote recently is about physically drinking wine and eating bread. I drank some wine on the sabbath day, friday evening and haven’t smoked a cigarette for over 3 days which has been impossible for me to quit for over 20 years. So I don’t know exactly what I did there..

  5. Writing off the truth simply because Hitler held the same interpretation …

    This is getting comical.

    Ed, take a brief look around this blog.

    Anyone that Ivar hates is condemned for far less than merely having the same interpretation than Hitler does. He already associated you with “Jew Haters”. Then he compared you with Hitler. He then said that the Pope uses the same interpretation that you and Hitler use.

    The Pope is evil, Hitler is evil … and Ed is??

    I think your complaint is directed at Ivar:

    Writing off the truth simply because Hitler held the same interpretation …

    Clearly, Ivar is writing off the truth and calling you evil.

    1. Dear Creation by design

      Shalom, and thanks for making this blog a exiting place for debate.

      Who are the true “Christians”, those who follow Jesus of the Bible?

      I have written about 165.000 of them. They were slaughtered last year, because of their “preaching”, their faith, life and actions. They were martyrs, killed by different kind of religious people who did not like their message.

      At the peak of the Papacy’s political powers, the Pope was the main butcher of Bible believing Christians.

      There is also a button on this blog named “Fantastic Christianity”. There you will find some stories that I wanted to share with my readers.

      Since the theme of this blog is “Exposing fake and falsehood” there will not be to many stories of people who tell the truth. But since I have only exposed about 100 false teachers, I guess I will not run out of topics.

      I am a baptist, and I join a Full Gospel Church. Some of my favorite preachers are Baptists, and I am found of Christan Zionists teachers like Malcolm Hedding. He is a pentecostal. I am also very found of the teachings of Martin Luther, but disagree with him on certain points like infant baptism, and his mistakenly attack on the Jews of his time. Luther could not, as we can do, look back on the restoration of Israel and rejoice with the Jewish people.

      Unfortunately, most of the people will walk into the wide gates of Hell. Only a few shall be able to make it through the narrow gate. That’s why you should not filter your faith through the views of any pope, priest or pastor. You have the Bible, and the Holy spirit is available to all who is willing to believe what is written and Obey.

      Find your self a good Shepherd, and stay faithful to the flock he is giving pastoral care. I attend such a fellowship of Bible obeying Christians.

      The teachings of Jesus is so simple, that even a fool shall not be able to misunderstand and perish.

  6. And my master is not the Italian …

    Maybe Ed or Gloria can correct you on this.
    This is a pretty good measure of your knowledge and awareness. You might want to learn what nationality the Pope is. You might also want to figure out how long ago it was when the Church had an Italian Pope. This could help improve your credibility.

    1. Dear Creation of design.

      Shalom, and tanks for all kinds of correction.

      You wrote:

      You might want to learn what nationality the Pope is. You might also want to figure out how long ago it was when the Church had an Italian Pope.

      My reply:

      There have been 217 popes from Italy. One was an Englishman, one a Dutch, and the late pope was the only Polish.

      The present Pope is the eight German, and his surname is Ratzinger. In His youth, He was a member of Hitler Jugent. Ratzinger claims he was not found of the Nazi-leader as a teen, but was forced to attend by his parents.

      Since there is no word like “pope” found in the Bible, we need to know the origin of this word. It is “papa” in Latin. There have so fare been 217 of them from the place of origin of the Roman Catholic faith. That is why the pope correctly should be called the Italian “Holy Father”.

  7. Ivar – you don’t have a list of preachers or ministers who are true followers of Jesus. You can’t give me any names.

    The only one you’re sure of is yourself.

    Then you said something about humility?

  8. Ivar,

    Thanks for the details on the teachers you admire, and your own background as a Baptist. That does help and I will do some research to learn more.

    From one man that you do admire I already know a lot — Martin Luther.

    I think you will want to condemn him as very evil now, and repent of your own errors because there are many things that you do not know about Rev. Luther. For example – please read this important page:

    Martin Luther’s Devotion to Mary
    http://www.chnetwork.org/journals/mary/mary_5.htm

    Probably the most astonishing Marian belief of Luther is his acceptance of Mary’s Immaculate Conception, which wasn’t even definitively proclaimed as dogma by the Catholic Church until 1854. Concerning this question there is some dispute, over the technical aspects of medieval theories of conception and the soul, and whether or not Luther later changed his mind. Even some eminent Lutheran scholars, however, such as Arthur Carl Piepkorn (1907-73) of Concordia Seminary in St. Louis, maintain his unswerving acceptance of the doctrine. Luther’s words follow:

    It is a sweet and pious belief that the infusion of Mary’s soul was effected without original sin; so that in the very infusion of her soul she was also purified from original sin and adorned with God’s gifts, receiving a pure soul infused by God; thus from the first moment she began to live she was free from all sin” (Sermon: “On the Day of the Conception of the Mother of God,” 1527).

    She is full of grace, proclaimed to be entirely without sin—something exceedingly great. For God’s grace fills her with everything good and makes her devoid of all evil. (Personal {“Little”} Prayer Book, 1522).

    Luther held to the idea and devotional practice of the veneration of Mary and expressed this on innumerable occasions with the most effusive language:

    The veneration of Mary is inscribed in the very depths of the human heart. (Sermon, September 1, 1522).

    [She is the] highest woman and the noblest gem in Christianity after Christ…She is nobility, wisdom, and holiness personified. We can never honor her enough. Still honor and praise must be given to her in such a way as to injure neither Christ nor the Scriptures. (Sermon, Christmas, 1531).

    No woman is like you. You are more than Eve or Sarah, blessed above all nobility, wisdom, and sanctity. (Sermon, Feast of the Visitation, 1537).

    One should honor Mary as she herself wished and as she expressed it in the Magnificat. She praised God for his deeds. How then can we praise her? The true honor of Mary is the honor of God, the praise of God’s grace…Mary is nothing for the sake of herself, but for the sake of Christ…Mary does not wish that we come to her, but through her to God. (Explanation of the Magnificat, 1521).

    Luther goes even further, and gives the Blessed Virgin the exalted position of “Spiritual Mother” for Christians, much the same as in Catholic piety:

    It is the consolation and the superabundant goodness of God, that man is able to exult in such a treasure. Mary is his true Mother, Christ is his brother, God is his father. (Sermon, Christmas, 1522) Mary is the Mother of Jesus and the Mother of all of us even though it was Christ alone who reposed on her knees…If he is ours, we ought to be in his situation; there where he is, we ought also to be and all that he has ought to be ours, and his mother is also our mother. (Sermon, Christmas, 1529).

    Whoever possesses a good (firm) faith, says the Hail Mary without danger! Whoever is weak in faith can utter no Hail Mary without danger to his salvation. (Sermon, March 11, 1523).

    Our prayer should include the Mother of God…What the Hail Mary says is that all glory should be given to God, using these words: “Hail Mary, full of grace. The Lord is with thee; blessed art thou among women and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus Christ. Amen!” You see that these words are not concerned with prayer but purely with giving praise and honor…We can use the Hail Mary as a meditation in which we recite what grace God has given her. Second, we should add a wish that everyone may know and respect her…He who has no faith is advised to refrain from saying the Hail Mary. (Personal Prayer Book, 1522).

    1. Dear Creation by design

      Shalom.

      I did not know that you were such a fan of Martin Luther? The Papal Church excommunicated him, and branded him as an heretic that will burn in Hell.

      How can a man who says he loves the Mother of Jesus, also brand the pope as “antichrist”? Is it possible to be a Christian, and still love the Jewish mother of our Master?

      Absolutely.

      Martin Luther requires our attention. He changed his views of baptism three times. From 1518 to 1521, He was a baptist who believed that baptism should be done with full immersion, of people who already had confessed faith in Jesus. When Luther again changed his mind, it was because his co-Church leaders of the Reformation put pressure on him. They felt Luther was changing to much to fast. The reformed Catholics was not able to follow him in His tempo.

      In regards to the papal worship of the mother of Jesus as “Queeen of Heaven”, the Lutheran Movement later came to the conclusion that young Luther was wrong. They threw all the statues of “the Queen of Heaven” out of the Churches and burnt them. These statues have not returned into Lutheran Churches up to this day.

      Luther was a man who struggled to conclude, if Roman Catholicism had to be scraped all together, or if it was possible to reform the existing Church. He changed his views many times.

      The Baptist in Martin Luther told him that the Church of Rome was ruled by an anti-Christ, and that the foundation of Rome was rotten down to its core. Luther also debated matters of Internal church politics. This debate did not end with Luther. It goes on up to this day.

  9. Ivar – that is correct. Pope Benedict XVI is German, not Italian. The last Italian pope was over 30 years ago. Thank you.

  10. Creationbydesign,

    You said: “Whoever possesses a good (firm) faith, says the Hail Mary without danger! Whoever is weak in faith can utter no Hail Mary without danger to his salvation. (Sermon, March 11, 1523). ”

    That is probably one of the biggest lies I’ve ever heard of and I’ve heard many.

    The bible is clear on the ONLY WAY to salvation: “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. John 3:16-17

    Furthermore you claim Mary was a saint free from sin. Well the Holy Word of God says: all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,Romans 3:23

    It is possible like Ivar said to be a follower of Christ and still love and respect Jesus’ mother. But Catholics take it to the utmost extreme. One must abandon all false worship, and seek Jesus Christ in truth.

    “But the hour is coming, and is now here, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for the Father is seeking such people to worship him. God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth.” John 4:23-24

  11. Martin Luther changed his views many times.

    Yes, this is true. This is what we call “human knowledge” — not divine.

    This is the knowledge that originates with an individual. A person “creates doctrines” for himself. They might be true or they could all be false.

    That’s why this method of personal interpretation does not work. This is why today’s Lutherans are discovering the Catholic Church. An agreement on Justification was signed in 1999. More Lutherans are realizing that Martin Luther truly wanted a reform of the Catholic Church — not to start his own false Church.

    But sadly, he did start his own religion. It has taken a while, but many see the problem with that.

    We have “the Church of Martin Luther”, just like you belong to “the Church of Jean Cauvin” (commonly known as the Baptist).

    What is the origin of the Baptist Church? Where did it come from? Why weren’t there Baptist Churches in the apostolic era? What was John Calvin trying to do when he created his own religion?

    These are important questions.

    Martin Luther wanted to improve the Catholic Church. That’s the right approach. Work to make improvements — that’s what he actually hoped to do. Again, many prominent Lutherans see that today.

    Starting one’s own private religion causes immense damage.

    It’s for that reason that many Anglicans and Lutherans are coming back to the Catholic Church. Many evangelicals are doing the same.

    1. Dear Creation by Design.

      Shalom, and thanks for being so active.

      You asked me a question:

      What is the origin of the Baptist Church? Where did it come from? Why weren’t there Baptist Churches in the apostolic era? What was John Calvin trying to do when he created his own religion?

      My reply:

      I guess the true Church was a Baptist Church from day one. You must have read, that Jesus him self was baptized with full immersion. (The word baptiso means full immersion). Jesus Him self was a Baptists. It that not amazing?

      How come you Catholics have missed the point?

    2. Creationbydesign,

      The Catholic religion didn’t die for anyone’s sins. Only Jesus Christ died for our sins. You worship and love your denomination and try to have a relationship with God through your Catholic ways, and that is not biblical. We have a relationship with God through Jesus Christ.

      You should be like the Bereans, they examined the scriptures to see if what they were told was true (Acts 17:11). Even a young child can read the Bible and will question the Catholic Church’s ways because it is contradictory to the Word of God.

      You, and all Catholics allow yourselves to be talked out of the truth for lies. You give too much credit to the Catholic’s “Fathers”. Jesus said, “I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children (Matthew 11:25).

      Did you ever put any effort in knowing God’s Truth?

      We ought to obey God and not man (Acts 5:29). You don’t put your trust in God, but you put your confidence in man-made religion.

      Did you ever really seek God with all your heart?

      Or did you just settle and base your beliefs on the mere age of your Catholic denomination?

      Forget about your “Church Fathers,” and your popes, Martin Luther and John Calvin, and whom ever else. Pick up the Bible, pray to God and start obeying Jesus today.

      1. Dear Victoria.

        Shalom, and thanks for ministering on our blog.

        You wrote:

        You should be like the Bereans, they examined the scriptures to see if what they were told was true (Acts 17:11). Even a young child can read the Bible and will question the Catholic Church’s ways because it is contradictory to the Word of God.

        (end)

        This example is one of the best. How could the Bereans question the great “St. Paul”?

        If the Vatican had been the rulers of those days, you would have been excommunicated.

        What scriptures did the Bereans study?

        They read from their Torah scrolls, to find out if Paul’s oral message was true. That His Master Jesus was the promised Messiah.

  12. Immanuel Evangelical Lutheran Church
    We are proud to have recently dedicated our new “Mary Garden”. A Mary Garden is an area, usually enclosed, established for meditation and adorned with a statue of Mary.
    http://www.immanuellutheransj.org/about/mary.html

    Maybe you should follow today’s Lutherans and honor Mary with a statue and garden shrine.

    Here’s a beautiful image of Mary, crowned as Queen:

    St. Mark’s Evangelical Lutheran Church
    http://www.stmarkscelebrates.org/worship.htm

    Q. Why is there a statue of Mary and the child Jesus in the sanctuary? What do Lutherans believe about Mary?
    A. Depictions of Jesus and Mary make a strong proclamation of the incarnation — God fully sharing our humanity in Christ. Since the early years of the Church, Christians have referred to Mary as Theotokos, the “God-bearer.” Martin Luther had a deep regard for Mary, and called her the “Mother of God.” Though Mary was de-emphasized in the centuries following the Reformation, there has recently been a renewed interest in her role in the mystery of salvation. For some, she represents the feminine aspect of our Christian faith, and provides a balance to what some call a patriarchal Christianity. She is often considered the first Christian believer, as she opened her life to the mystery of God’s will. In addition, she is a strong proclaimer of God’s justice, for in the Magnificat she sings of God raising the lowly and filling the hungry with good things.

    1. Dear Creation by design.

      Shalom.

      I regret what many Lutheran Churches are doing in the last days.

      You must be knowing that the Lutheran Church has two separate divisions. One of Ordained priests, with a majority seeking back to full communion with Rome. And one that is lead by laymen, that seeks back to the Jewish roots of our Faith. Lutheran Norway is a good example. They have one of the highest numbers of supporters of Israel.

      In regards to Martin Luther changing his mind, and being unsure of the truth. That is human, when you are a Roman Catholic priest. I know quite a few of them, that disagree with one or several Papal dogmas. Are they also going to burn in Hell?

  13. Creationbydesign,

    You said: It’s for that reason that many Anglicans and Lutherans are coming back to the Catholic Church. Many evangelicals are doing the same.

    My comment: Then I truly feel sorry for those who do not realize that the only way to heaven is through Jesus Christ. Many will come to realize the truth too late, after the rapture of the church, and will then be involved what the bible calls the “worst time on earth.”

    Matthew 24 verse 21 and 22 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
    And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect’s sake those days shall be shortened.

    And to your other comment: “Have you attacked the Orthodox Churches for venerating Jesus’ mother also”

    I don’t think anyone posting their views on this subject has “attacked anyone.”

    People have posted their views, and some have done right by using the “Holy Bible-God’s Word” as proper defense. I do think that name calling is uncalled for, for God’s word is this:

    1 Peter 3:15 But in your hearts honor Christ the Lord as holy, always being prepared to make a defense to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you; yet do it with gentleness and respect,

  14. Ivar you posted earlier: You are right. Let me underline. I am a Christian. I believe in Jesus from Nazareth. But since there is so much misunderstandings about who the “Christian’s” are, I rather prefer to call my self a Messianic believer. It makes more sense to me. The World shall know that I have the Jewish Messiah as my Master.

    My Comment: I would rather also say I believe in Jesus Christ completely, because of so many misunderstandings about Christians.

    To Creationsbydesigns: You write “For some, she represents the feminine aspect of our Christian faith, and provides a balance to what some call a patriarchal Christianity.”

    My Comment: I once heard a testimony from a believer in Christ, who had a vision and saw Mary crying through a window. She heard Mary ask, “Why Jesus? Why do they praise me when it is you who deserve’s all the Glory?”

  15. Hi Victoria,
    Thanks for your comments.
    You said …

    Pick up the Bible and start obeying Jesus today.

    Yes, well when I pick up the Bible (which I do daily) I see the Catholic Church. This is the Church that gave me the Bible. Not Martin Luther’s church or John Calvin’s — they were given the Bible by the Catholic Church.

    So, I see to obey Jesus, by obeying the one Church that He created. I find joy in belonging to that Church which is traced to the founding by the apostles. St. Mark in Alexandria, Sts. Peter, James and Mark in Jerusalem, Sts. Peter and Paul in Rome, St. Andrew in Constantinople …

    This is what the Bible teaches us and what the apostles taught. So, I can find no reason to break away from the true, Catholic Faith and follow the confused ideas of various individuals who change their minds, make up their own doctrines, and have no authority to create churches on their own.

    The great Councils of the Church gave us the Creeds, the true doctrine on the Trinity and the New Testament canon — that’s what the Catholic Church has the power, from God, to do.

    So, I look back and see what the followers of Jesus did. They stayed with the true Church and did not schism and make their own.

    There were no Baptists or Lutherans. Those religions did not exist for another 1600 years. They were created by men. So, that does not follow the Bible at all.

  16. Hello Creationbydesign,

    From what you say, it sounds like you are consumed with the Catholic Church. When you pick up the Bible and read…it isn’t the Catholic Church you should be seeing, but Jesus. I understand though how it can be difficult to escape the Catholic religion, but it is possible.
    I don’t know why you bring up Martin Luther and John Calvin again, as I don’t follow them.

    The Catholic Church was not in the bible times, nor was the Catholic Church anything like the Churches in the Bible. The Catholic religion is not biblical. There are so many things that should clue you in to knowing that. Many of the practices of the Catholic religion were not practiced in the Churches in the Bible. The Churches did not make statues and images and venerate these things. The Churches did not call the elder of the Church “Holy Father.” They did not perform infant baptisms. They did not worship Mary. Nor did Jesus even speak well of the long robes and places of honor of the teacher’s of the law, so why would anyone get to copy that type of demeanor at all such as the Catholic Popes do?
    It is almost as if the Catholic Church found everything that God hated…and made those things their beliefs and practices. What kind of spirit is that? Apostle Paul warns us not to receive a different spirit or a different gospel.

    The Catholics didn’t give us the Bible…God gave us the Bible.

    New Testament teachings and books were accepted as scripture immediately. In 1 Timothy 5:18 Paul joins a New Testament scripture (Luke 10:7) to an Old Testament scripture (Deuteronomy 25:4) and calls them both scripture.
    And we can see in 2 Peter 3:15-16 Peter recognizes Paul’s writing as scripture.
    Read here what Peter says:
    2 Peter 2:15 Bear in mind that our Lord’s patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him. 16He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.

    It’s important to remember that the canon of the New Testament was not the result of any pronouncement by any official of the church or any organizational body. Rather, the canon was determined by the authoritative use of these books right from the start by the rapidly expanding Church of the first and second centuries.

    The need for official canonization of the New Testament scriptures only came about because of certain heresies that were being spread through-out the church starting in the med to late second century. For instance, Marcion created his own religion by only teaching from ten of Paul’s letters and certain portions of Luke. Also, the Gnostic’s, especially in Alexandria, were introducing the new “secrets” to the standard Christian doctrine, including new Gospel accounts altogether.

    Surely we can all agree, obviously God knew exactly how many books were going to be in the canon of the New Testament. God knew who would write the books and when. God also knew the exact working that would be in these books, since God, not the men chose the working, as 2 Peter 1:20-21 says.

    20Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet’s own interpretation. 21For prophecy never had its origin in the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.

    Our worship becomes vain and useless, if our doctrines come from men when they meet in conventions and conferences to decide what we are to believe and do.

    As the apostle Peter told the Jewish council in Acts 5:29, “We ought to obey God rather than men”.

    Deuteronomy 4:2, Proverbs 30:5-6 and Revelation 22:18-19 warn against adding to or detracting from Scripture.

    We are exhorted to check out teaching against Scripture (Isaiah 8:20; Acts 17:11.)

    The Bereans of Acts 17:11, “examining the Scriptures daily, to see whether these things were so.”

    Isaiah 8:20 To the law and to the testimony! If they do not speak according to the word, they have no light of dawn.

    The Catholic Church is proud of their Traditions.
    Trusting in tradition is not honorable; it is deceptive.
    Matthew 3:9 “And do not think you can say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father.’ I tell you that out of these stones God can raise up children for Abraham.

    Jesus denounced tradition as keeping man from the reality of the truth*:
    Matthew 15:6-9 “… Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition. Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying, This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me. But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.”

    Mark 7:8-9, 13 “For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men … and many other such like things ye do. And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition….Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.”

    You should seek God’s Truth, and not all the different religions and denomination’s beliefs.

  17. Victoria,

    Catholic Church [is not] anything like the Churches in the Bible …

    I disagree. I mentioned several of the New Testament churches that we know about. Every one of them is either a Catholic or Orthodox church. They always were those.

    If you can show me some other churches from that era, I will be glad to investigate.

    Otherwise, I will have to conclude that the one Church that Jesus created was the Catholic Church (the Orthodox were united with Catholics for 1,000 years).

    Whatever church you belong to came much later. Somebody invented it 16 centuries after the Church which was built by the apostles already existed.

    So, that’s a man-made religion.

    If you have some historical information that you’d like to share about the early church, I will gladly review it. We can look at the earliest Christian documents that we know of which were produced around the same time as the New Testament — and those point to the Catholic Church also.

    I don’t know what religion you represent — perhaps it’s just a religion that you made up for yourself. Again, I really don’t know.

    But I can’t see that you have been given the authority by God to create a religion or start your own separate church.

    Jesus created one Church. That is clear in the Bible. The apostles belonged to one Church. That is also clear.

    Whatever religion you belong to was not the religion which was built upon the apostles and received their leadership — and that of the successors of the apostles.

    Again, I accept the Councils of the Church — because God gave that authority to the Catholic Church. I accept the canon of the New Testament, because that is what the Catholic Church has given us.

    If I relied on your method, I would not even know which books are inspired texts of God and which were not. I would have to trust men like Martin Luther or John Calvin — but they didn’t even exist for almost 1600 years after the Catholic Church already determined what the New Testament was (and which books were false).

    How did the Catholic Church know that?

    The only way is through the divine power given to the Church by God — the true authority to declare without error, which books were truly inspired Scripture and which were not.

    To this day, you accept that decision. You read the Bible, because the Catholic Church gave it to us. You are not able to determine the difference between an inspired and non-inspired text on your own.

    So, that is why your opinions are interesting, but not really of that much value to me. They’re the opinions of a person — you can interpret the Bible in whatever way you decide.

    But that lacks meaning and authority, to me.

    If you say that I should decide for myself, as you do — then that obviously leads to the confusion I see in the many conflicting denominations who change their mind about what they believe — just like Martin Luther did his whole life.

    1. Dear Creation by design

      Shalom, and thanks for debating on this site.

      It is true that Jesus formed one Church, and wanted his followers to be One. A Church that obey His commands. Jesus wanted His followers to follow him in His baptism.

      Mark 10:39
      “We can,” they answered. Jesus said to them, “You will drink the cup I drink and be baptized with the baptism I am baptized with.

      Since the Pope do not agree with Master Jesus in this, the Roman Catholic Church is not the Church of Jesus the Messiah. Many nominal “protestant” Churches are also following the Catholic man made doctrine of infant baptism.

      Another point, is that all Messianic Jews are baptized with the same baptism as Jesus. With full immersion.

      There is also gap of 325 years from the death of Jesus to the formation of the Papal Church of Rome. It is nothing but a blunt lie that the Catholic Church is the “true Church”.

    2. Creationbydesign,

      You said “Again, I accept the Councils of the Church — because God gave that authority to the Catholic Church.”

      If what you say is correct, then what ever happened to the Catholic Church baptizing by immersion three times? And giving the one baptized a “drink of milk and honey” then forbidding the person from taking a bath for a week?

      What ever happened to the teaching that kneeling in Sunday mass was forbidden?

      And the sign of the cross was to be made on the forehead? Jerome said what Tertullian said, that these “observances of the Churches, which are due to tradition, have acquired the authority of the written law”.

      So why don’t the Catholic Church follow these anymore?

      Since you believe that divine power is given to the Catholic Church by God, then why was it not until 416 AD before all newborns were required to be baptized?

      And not untill 320 AD for the special dress code of the clergy in worship?

      Why did the doctrine of Lent not start till 519 AD?

      Extreme Unction in 526 AD?

      Canonization of dead saint in 995 AD?

      Good Friday having only fish and not red meat in 998 AD?

      1009 AD Holy Water?

      1022 AD Penance?

      And not untill 1079 AD Celibacy enforced for priests?

      1090 Rosary beads invented. Sale of Indulgences 1190 AD. Transubstantiation by Pope Innocent III, Fourth Lateran Council. 1215 AD Mass a Sacrifice of Christ. 1268 AD Priestly power of absolution. 1950 AD Assuption of the body of the Virgin Mary into heaven shortly after her death. 1954 AD Immaculate conception of Mary proclaimed by Pope Pius XII.

      Again, since you believe that divine power is given to the Catholic Church by God, then why did it take all that time for the practices of the Catholic Church to come about?

  18. Creationbydesign,

    What do you mean by saying “I mentioned several of the New Testament churches that we know about. Every one of them is either a Catholic or Orthodox church. They always were those.”

    You are ignoring the fact that the Catholic Church is nothing like the Churches in the Bible.
    The Apostles and disciples called each other “brothers” and “sisters”. The Catholic priests, Cardinals, Bishops, and Pope call each other “Father.”
    Jesus teaches against long robes and taking the places of honor. The Catholic higher ups dress up elaborately, and always take the place of honor.
    Jesus calls God “Holy Father.” Catholics call their Pope “Holy Father.”
    Catholics give adoration to Mary. Jesus said, “My mother and brothers are those who hear God’s word and put it into practice.” And,
    Luke 8:20 Someone told him, “Your mother and brothers are standing outside, wanting to see you.”
    Luke 11:28 He replied, “Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and obey it.”

    The Catholic Church declares who the saints are and canonizes them. The Bible says all Christians are saints (1 Corinthians 1:2)
    The Catholic Church calls their clergy “priests.” The Bible says all believers are priests. (1 Peter 2:5,9)
    The Catholic priest is required to bow profusely at the images at the altar, and incense those images of baby Jesus, Mary, etc.
    The Bible says the bronze snake was destroyed because the Israelites burned incense to it.
    The Catholics call Mary “co-redeemer,” and say to pray to Jesus through Mary with requests because Jesus won’t turn down a request from his mother.
    The Bible says that there is only one mediator. (1 Timothy 2:5)
    Catholics baptize infants. The Bible says repent and be baptized.

    I could go on more, but you ignore the Truth.
    You can read what the Bible says, but yet you don’t trust what you read.

  19. Victoria,

    So why don’t the Catholic Church follow these anymore?

    These are what the Church has always recognized as practices which are changeable in nature.

    It might be very good for you to learn about the earliest liturgies of the Christian Church. You will notice that even in the Apostolic Era, there were several different Catholic liturgies in each place where the apostles founded churches. Again, you asked what churches I mentioned — and those are in Jerusalem, Antioch, Rome, Alexandria and Constantanople (Istanbul). There are several others from the apostolic era.

    Due to changing cultural conditions, various liturgical practices changed. Laws about posture in the liturgy are changeable — like the hymns one uses during the liturgy.

    The laws of the Christian Church on liturgy and spiritual practice can be traced to the 1st century bishops. Again, you might want to become more familiar with that history.

    The Catholic and Orthodox churches have preserved apostolic succession since that time.

    To claim that the Catholic Church has fallen away from the Faith is a major problem since you have not given any date for that to have occurred.

    What year do you think that happened? Which Christian body claimed that the Catholic Church had lapsed in the Faith for the period between 30 a.d. and 1500 a.d.?

    So again, you’re asking questions that you should already have the answers to, since there is a great amount of material on the history of Christianity for the 1600 year period when your church did not exist.

    Which of those hundreds of Catholic leaders during that time are you most familiar with?
    Which of the thousands of Christian documents prior to the 1500s have you studied?

    When you decide to look into these matters with an open mind, you’ll discover that the Christian Church was much different than you imagine.

    Again, the written New Testament came after the Catholic Church had already existed. So, you cannot propose that the Bible contradicts the Church, since the Catholic Church pre-dates the Bible and actually canonized the New Testament in an offical Council.

    If you’re willing to reject the Catholic Church’s authority entirely, you will not even have the Council of Nicea where the doctrine of the Trinity was formulated.

    As I said, many Christian bodies are realizing the truth of this matter — and are drawing closer to the one, Catholic Church.

    They realize that the Reformation caused several man-made denominations which have no authority.

    1. Creationbydesign,

      The questions I asked you were educated questions…meaning that I already knew the answers. There are a lot of educated questions in the Bible, you should check it out.

      It is obvious that you love the Catholic religion, but I love the Word of God.

      You did not give a good answer to why your religion’s Traditions are not all still followed, nor do you seem bothered at all about what Jesus says about people who follow their traditions. Nor do you seem bothered at all about all the beliefs and practices of the Catholic Church that are against the Word of God.

      My replies might have been wasted on you, but I hope that my information helped strengthen another brother or sister in Christ.

      1. Dear Victoria.

        Shalom.

        You wrote:

        My replies might have been wasted on you, but I hope that my information helped strengthen another brother or sister in Christ.

        My reply:

        You are a blessing to Jesus, and all the readers of this blog.

    2. Creationbydesign,

      You said: Again, the written New Testament came after the Catholic Church had already existed.

      My Comment: Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

      And God was and always will be God above anything else.

    3. Creationbydesign,

      You said:

      “Again, the written New Testament came after the Catholic Church had already existed. So, you
      cannot propose that the Bible contradicts the Church, since the Catholic Church pre-dates the Bible and actually canonized the New Testament in an offical Council.”

      The Catholic Church did not exist before the New Testament was written. What do you think the letters to the Churches are? Those letters are scripture. Another way for you to know the Catholic Church is false…compare what the Word of God says to the beliefs and practices of the Catholic Church.
      Jesus says “Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth.” (See John 4:23-24)

      You also said:

      “If you’re willing to reject the Catholic Church’s authority entirely, you will not even have the Council of Nicea where the doctrine of the Trinity was formulated.”

      All the years I was a Catholic….they never taught that Jesus is God. I did not learn that till when I was in the Catholic Church.

      Even Apostle Peter needed to be corrected by Apostle Paul. God in His infinite wisdom knew we needed to know that. That is in the Bible for us. God’s word is infallible, yet you think the Catholic religion is unfallible. The Church is made up of true worshipers. The Church isn’t the Catholic denomination.

      I wish that you would desire to know God’s Truth, and to check on everything you have been taught. I wish that you would want to please God by obeying His Word.

      1. Creationbydesign,

        It would be nice if Ivar had an edit button, as there is something I accidently left out of my last post to you. I want to clarify: The Church isn’t the Catholic religion; the Church is the body of Christ. It is as if the Catholic religion has replaced Jesus with itself.

        Colossians 1:24 Now I rejoice in my sufferings for your sake, and in my flesh I do my share on behalf of His body, which is the church, in filling up what is lacking in Christ’s afflictions.

        Also, while I’m at it, there is a spelling error in my last post to you too.

        The word “till” should not be in the sentence “I did not learn that when I was in the Catholic Church.”

    4. Dear Creation by design.

      Shalom, and thanks for fresh comments and a vibrant debate.

      You wrote:

      If you’re willing to reject the Catholic Church’s authority entirely, you will not even have the Council of Nicea where the doctrine of the Trinity was formulated.

      My reply.

      This is very strange to me. Do you suggest that the Apostles did not know the Trinity before there was a Bishop’s conference in 325 A.D?

  20. Hi,
    Can you post a link to this article about Franklin and Billy Graham.
    I need the link to the article to send to a friend. My friend and I have been discussing Franklin and Billy Graham’s ecumenicial history and I need to send her this article as proof. I was unable to find it when I search the news paper and Google.

    Thanks,
    Nora

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out /  Change )

Google photo

You are commenting using your Google account. Log Out /  Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out /  Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out /  Change )

Connecting to %s