Bible lesson # 8: The demon who spoke to Jesus Bar Sirach is promoted in the Catholic Bible as God

Jesus Bar Sirach is a false teacher leading us away from the truth.

The Pope of Rome has to answer God why he do not omitt falsehood from the Catholic Bible
The Pope of Rome has to answer God why he do not omitt falsehood from the Catholic Bible

The Catholic Bible includes the book of Sirach. It has to be said that not all Catholic versions includes this book. The reason why some Catholic publishers have omitted this book, might be because they do not want to include a book that contradicts so many other verses in the Holy Bible.

Let me start with:

Sirach 3:3:

«He who honors his father atones for sins».

Its important to first understand the meaning of the Jewish word «atonement». The Britannica online encyclopedia define atonement (religion), as the process by which a person removes obstacles to his reconciliation with God.

The Bible says that there is no other atonement for sins, than the blood of Jesus, who is God the Son. Any other atonement will not work. Before Jesus died on the cross, the Jewish people made atonement for sins by blood sacrifices. Of bulls, lambs, pigeons and doves.

Sirach 3.30:

«Water quenches a flaming fire, and alms atone for sins».

This is the verse, that made the Pope include this book into the Catholic cannon in the year 1566 A.D. Its promotes a false gospel of salvation by works, almsgiving and indulgences. Our works can not pay the price for our sins. Only the blood of the Messiah can pay this price.

Sirach: 11:34:

«If you take a stranger into your house, he will cause you trouble. He will estrange you from your household».

This is paganism, and is a blunt contradiction of everything the Judeo-Christian faith stands for.

Matthew 25:43

«I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me».

The Jews was commanded to look well after aliens and strangers. All who believe in Jesus as the Messiah has to invite people who are not our friends to our parties, including the blind, the crippled and lame. Jesus Bar Sirach is not even a good Samaritan.

Sirach: 12:4

«Give to a goodly man, do not help the sinner».

This verse of Sirach brands him as a possible Pharisee. It contradict all the work of Jesus of Nazareth, who loved sinners and helped them.

Matthew 11:18-20

«For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, ‘He has a demon.’ The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, ‘Here is a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and “sinners. But wisdom is proved right by her actions»

Thats one of the reasons why he was hated by the Pharisees. They persecuted him, and finally approved of His crucifixion.

Sirach 40:1:

«A great anxiety has God allotted, and a heavy yoke, to the sons of men. From the day one leaves his mother’s womb to the day he returns to the mother of all the living».

This contradicts the book of Genesis, who says Eve is the mother of all the living.

Genesis 3:20

«Adam named his wife Eve, because she would become the mother of all the living».

We are surely not going to depart and return to Her. Jesus of Nazareth also said that God is our Father. Never did He say that we will return to God our Mother.

Sirach 40: 28:

«My son, live not the life of a beggar, better to die than to beg».

This is words of a man filled with pride, and not at all a divinely inspired words. Lazarus was a beggar, but died and entered the Kingdom at the side of Abraham. The Rich man, who did not have to beg, ended up in Hell.

43 thoughts on “Bible lesson # 8: The demon who spoke to Jesus Bar Sirach is promoted in the Catholic Bible as God

    1. This person has twisted the book of Sirach into HIS own interpretation. Careful is the person who reads what this person posts here as He posts his own words and not the actual words in the Book of Sirach.
      Compare HIS to what is Actually written and ye shall see who the real evil one is here if he chooses to declare that evil are the words of the book of Sirach.

      3:3 <>.


      “3:3 For God hath made the father honourable to the children: and seeking the judgment of the mothers, hath confirmed it upon the children.

      3:4 He that loveth God, shall obtain pardon for his sine by prayer, and shall refrain himself from them, and shall be heard in the prayer of days.

      3:5 And he that honoureth his mother is as one that layeth up a treasure.

      3:6 He that honoureth his father shall have joy in his own children, and in the day of his prayer he shall be heard. ”

      Quite a differnce as you can see.

      Again the writer here poses their interpretation
      of 12:4 as <>.


      12:2 Do good to the just, and thou shalt find great recompense: and if not of him, assuredly of the Lord.

      12:3 For there is no good for him that is always occupied in evil, and that giveth no alms: for the Highest hateth sinners, and hath mercy on the penitent.

      12:4 Give to the merciful and uphold not the sinner: God will repay vengeance to the ungodly and to sinners, and keep them against the day of vengeance.

      12:5 Give to the good, and receive not a sinner.

      12:6 Do good to the humble, and give not to the ungodly: hold back thy bread, and give it not to him, lest thereby he overmaster thee.

      1 Corinthians 1:23
      But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;

      Acts 2:36
      Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

      Pray for the writer here that the one True God will speak to his heart and open his heart and mind to reveal the truth.

      1. no RC, you are the one that is changing everything, I have the Jerusalem and the New American Bible here with me and even allowing for the different interpretations that different bibles have you aren’t even coming close to getting anything even remotely accurate, do you know how verses work, are the verses numbered in your bible?

  1. Ivar, pious good works do help atone for sins. Your knowledge of the Catholic Canon is amazing. There is no published Catholic bible without the book of Sirach.

    You need to find a good translation…
    Sirach 3:3 For God hath made the father honourable to the children: and seeking the judgment of the mothers, hath confirmed it upon the children.

    3:30 Water quencheth a flaming fire, and alms resisteth sins:

    11:34 Of one spark cometh a great fire, and of one deceitful man much blood: and a sinful man lieth in wait for blood.

    12:4 Give to the merciful and uphold not the sinner: God will repay vengeance to the ungodly and to sinners, and keep them against the day of vengeance.

    40:1 Great labour is created for all men, and a heavy yoke is upon the children of Adam, from the day of their coming out of their mother’s womb, until the day of their burial into the mother of all.

    40:29 My son, in thy lifetime be not indigent: for it is better to die than to want.

    Frankly, I don’t know what your point is…The Book of Sirach, the audience was Jews. Not Christians. The OT also tells the Jews to go to war…

  2. I was prompted to Google references to “holocaust” when I read in the book of Sirach that the Jewish priests were commanded by their God to come before Him with Holocaust… that it is the only way that they will be acknowledged by God is to come before Him with Holocaust. It refers to those sacrificed in a Holocaust as “victims”. There was no mention that this “Holocaust” was actually a sacrifice of animals and when I read about the term “Holocaust” it is specifically a term of HUMAN sacrifice, or genicide. The Wikipedia spoke of the origin of the word coming from the Hebrew “Shoah” and is a compilation of Greek terms meaning “Whole burnt offerings”. Most of the references to “Holocaust” in the Wikipedia did not go as far back in history as pre A.D. The book of Sirach was written in B.C. several hundred years, so I wanted a reference to “Holocaust” as mentioned in the book of Sirach, which led me to this article on the book of Sirach. One particular verse caught my eye…

    Sirach 40:1:

    «A great anxiety has God allotted, and a heavy yoke, to the sons of men. From the day one leaves his mother’s womb to the day he returns to the mother of all the living».

    Your article says that this contradicts Genesis, which claims Eve is the “mother of all the living”. I submit that the reference here, “mother of all the living” is to EARTH, not Eve or a mother God. Earth is often referred to as the mother of all the living. The Bible says when we die our bodies return to the dust of the earth from whence it was created. This Sirach reference is about birth into mortality and the mortal return of the body to the dust of the earth, and is not at all a contradiction, since it is not referring to the return of the spirit to God, but rather the entering of the spirit into mortal life and death. The entire verse is a reference to our mortal probation period that is a heavy yoke for those who enter into it. Mortal life is Soul’s crucible for forgetting everything that Soul knows of God and seeing if we can still live by that goodness without conscious knowledge of what we once knew. Seeing if we will seek out the truth that God can make available to us, if we seek it and wish to live by it. Mortal life is our test. Seen in this light, how can that verse possibly contradict truth? It does not.

    Your article also spoke of Atonement… that there is only one atonement for sin… the blood of the son of God. This is not what Jesus taught. His doctrine, that you call a “false doctrine”, was that of WORKS. His Beattitudes attest to what His true doctrine is. It is Paul that introduced the doctrine of blood atonement, not Jesus. Jesus giving up his life to be taken was simply his blood sacrifice testimony that all that he taught was the truth of God. He sealed it with his blood.

    When Paul postulated that “Grace, not works, lest a man boast of his good works” He was coming from a Human mentality, not a God inspired truth. First of all, if one knows anything about “true works” one knows it is never done to get credit, but rather done in humility. If one is living by God’s Law of Love, the most important commandment from God to live, according to Jesus, and one understands the definition of LOVE, as postulated by Peter, that it is not puffed up with pride nor is boastful, and that indeed good works should be carried out anonymously, then one knows that if one is boastful, one is NOT living by the law of Good Works, which Jesus taught is our salvation. The law of redemption required the testimony to be sealed in the blood of the redeemer. If we wish to be redeemed we must live by the truths taught by our redeemer. That is what the blood sacrifice is about, not about atoning for our sins as taught by Paul. We must work out our own atonement for sin as Jesus taught. When we have done that, we are adopted into the kingdom… written in the Lamb’s Book of Life. If we have NOT done the TRUE works of God, done in humility, we are not redeemed. It is even specifically mentioned when discussing the judgment day that there will be those who try to claim they have done the works of God, healed the sick, cast out demons, etc. And God says “I never knew you” and does not accept their “works” because it was done for credit and in a boastful manner, rather than humbly and secretly. TRUE WORKS IS DONE BY THE LAW OF LOVE. “Saved by Grace” is the false doctrine of Paul. Jesus’ doctrine of working out our own salvation is NOT a false doctrine, as you say.

    1. Dear Airial.

      Shalom, and thanks for reading my Bible studies.

      Your comment:

      Your article also spoke of Atonement… that there is only one atonement for sin… the blood of the son of God. This is not what Jesus taught. His doctrine, that you call a “false doctrine”, was that of WORKS.

      My reply:

      What you are writing is not not the truth:

      Romans 9:31-33

      but Israel, who pursued a law of righteousness, has not attained it.

      Why not? Because they pursued it not by faith but as if it were by works. They stumbled over the “stumbling stone.” As it is written:

      “See, I lay in Zion a stone that causes men to stumble
      and a rock that makes them fall,
      and the one who trusts in him will never be put to shame.

      (end of scripture)

      The God of the Bible has never forgiven sin by works, or any kind of self-righteousness. He demanded blood to be sacrificed as a punishment for sins. The Jews had to sacrifice their best lambs and bulls, and that was painful for farmers and tribal people.

      But God also promised to do something new. To bring and end to blood sacrifices. The Messiah Jesus of Nazareth did this with His own blood.

      Jeremiah 31: 34
      “For I will forgive their wickedness and will remember their sins no more.”

      Hebrews 9:15
      For this reason Christ is the mediator of a new covenant, that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance—now that he has died as a ransom to set them free from the sins committed under the first covenant.

      1 John 1:7
      But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin.

      Jesus sacrificed him self as the divine sacrifice for sins, once and for all. No man made works will ever do the needful.

    1. Dear Airial

      Jesus did not. Did NOT teach that it was by works we get to heaven. It is by His blood that we get to Heaven. The Beatitudes are teachings of how our Spiritual walk should be and how we need to be in our Spiritual life. All the things you call ‘works’ that Jesus taught are things resulting from humility and compassion. If we are right with our spiritual walk we will WANT to do these things. Just because we do them does not mean our sins are atoned for. It is not by works that we are saved, rather when we are saved we perform works because we are Gods servants. If we perform works (while keeping in mind that we are doing it to bring glory to God not ourselves) it shows that our faith is in the right place. James clearly states-
      “What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them? Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. If one of you says to them, ‘Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,’ but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.
      But someone will say, “You have faith; I have deeds.”

      Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds. You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder.” (James 2:14-26).

      This is true. HOWEVER. If this becomes your “salvation” it becomes a false doctrine. You say that Jesus taught that the way to Heaven is by works and Paul came along and introduced a completely different thing. But Jesus clearly states that “I am the Way the Truth and the Life. No one comes to the Father except through me.” (John 14:6). What was that? Did He say “If your a good enough person you can get to heaven”? Or “If you donate enough money your in the club.”? No, He said that HE is the way. It was by His sacrifice we are able to get to Heaven. By His blood that our sins are atoned for. Therefore Paul was correct.

      Also why would Jesus choose Paul to spread the Gospel if He knew that He would spread a false doctrine. That dosen’t make sense.

      1. Cort & Ivarfjeld,
        I see somewhat where Airiel is coming from but I appreciate your responses better.

        But If I may just query further the issue on WORKS or DEEDS…

        What am I specifically to do in this modern era that in your mind would qualify as “WORKS” that signifiy me as having a proper “Sprirtual Walk or Life”?

        IF I have no works, am I still saved. The key word in the bible as far as salvation is concerned is BELIEVE…isnt that more than just a mental recognition that sure Jesus is the son of God and that he died for our sins.

        If one really believes, what does one actually do?

        As for myself:
        I am in constant study and prayer. A former catholic, now a christian I try to learn the bible deeper. Hence I maintain a catholic bible and stumbled into Sirach which has lead me to this thread.

        I attend sunday services but not every sunday. I do not participate with church activities and simply keep to myself.

        I teach my young children to pray and introduce God as appropriate to their age.

        I am aware of my sins and struggle daily to keep those in check and as often and possible I cut off sources of sins and struggles. Every so often though I stumble and wallow back into some sins of habit (anger, frustration, a swearing word here and there, getting drunk with the wrong crowd). I quickly recover to say I am sorry and I am in regret but every blue moon or so these sins come back…yes its the sinful nature already…my heart doesnt like it but some of these are just constant in my life.

        Like most people I dont kill, steal, or hurt anyone…not physically nor intentionally.

        But as for works such as clothing and feeding the poor, charity, fishing for men, producing fruits as stated in the NT…I have little of those if any at all.

        The truth be told I am seldom a light to others.

        I love my family and I pray for them and my friends. I do not just pray for strangers, though once in a while I will pray for world peace (along those lines).

        I understand that our sins have been atoned for by the blood of Jesus.

        Is that fact = to automatic salvation?

        Can I just continue to do what I do at this point and simply await my death or must I do more to show my faith and belief?

        If I do less or more, what difference does it make?

        Dont get me wrong I understand that nothing that I do earns me my salvation…I am not trying to earn it.

        But must I do works and deeds because I say I believe it? Would the absence of works and deeds = disbelief, and where would that place my salvation then?

        Lets just not banter the scriptures around and against themselves but rather apply it in my case above to correctly enlighten us all.

        Your guidance and prayers would be appreciated.


      2. Leonard,

        Apostle Paul says “Examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith; test yourselves. Do you not realize that Christ Jesus is in you—unless, of course, you fail the test? 2 Cor. 13:5.

        Do you not realize that Christ Jesus is in you?

        I believe that when people examine themselves to know if they are in the faith… they would be able to identify sins that they have stopped doing…they should be able to identify commands they are obeying and being changed with.

        …..I preached that they should repent and turn to God and demonstrate their repentance by their deeds. (See Acts 26:20)

        John says “if anyone obeys his word, love for God is truly made complete in them. This is how we know we are in him: Whoever claims to live in him must live as Jesus did.” 1 John 2:5-6.

        Do you forgive others their sins against you? But if you do not forgive men their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins. Matthew 6:15.

        Do you help a brother of sister in need if you can?
        Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. If one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead. James 2:16-17.

        My personal opinion is that you are being too hard on yourself and beating yourself up. But that is just my personal opinion.
        Your salvation is a personal relationship with Jesus Christ.
        I would like to tell you that the joy of the Lord is our strength. Nehemiah 8:10. And love Jesus with an undying love. Grace to all who love our Lord Jesus Christ with an undying love. Eph. 6:24

        Here is my prayer for you…

        I pray for you. I ask God to fill you with the knowledge of his will through all the wisdom and understanding that the Spirit gives, so that you may live a life worthy of the Lord and please him in every way: bearing fruit in every good work, growing in the knowledge of God, being strengthened with all power according to his glorious might so that you may have great endurance and patience, and giving joyful thanks to the Father, who has qualified you to share in the inheritance of his holy people in the kingdom of light. For he has rescued us from the dominion of darkness and brought us into the kingdom of the Son he loves, in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.
        (See Colossians 1:9-19.)

  3. This article is a falsehood and does not speak for the Catholic Church. Let the Catholic Church speak for herself, if you have a question about the book of Sirach or the other 6 books removed by Luther: he removed them because they contradict his idea of once saved always saved.

    1. Dear cathmom

      Shalom, and welcome to this site.

      The inclusion of Sirach in the Italian Latin Bible is not the grossest error of the Pope and his faithful.

      Have you taken a look at the skulls, bones and corpses in the Vatican approved “Churches”?

      Do you support the Pontiff, who has beautified and canonized all this?

      Is He still your “Holy father”?

      1. Hello ivarfjeld!

        Re: ‘skull churches’:
        “What metal culture can only snatch at in its limited imagination, the Catholic Church builds churches out of. Seriously, we have churches made out of the dead. Why not? Death is dead. It’s a fear of death that seeks to show it as something gloriously hideous and horrendous. It’s a fear of death that wallows in it, uses images of it to convey evil and despair. It’s a boldness, a courage, a rebellious defiance that stares death in the face. The message of this particular chapel is simple: Remember man that you are dust, and to dust you shall return. Remember your death. Remember and prepare your hearts and souls. But never, ever, ever fear it; it has been conquered by the Christ. It has been destroyed. So pilgrims stare at the relics surrounding them and are led to joy, to prayer, and to contemplation that this world is a passing thing.”

        From a (humorous, yet reverent) site: I think you might enjoy it 🙂

        May God bless you!

      2. Dear cathmom


        Skull churches…..

        I thank God for not permitting Roman Catholics in Jerusalem 2.000 years ago. They would have rolled away the stone, and cut the head of the dead Messiah. Than they would have boiled his body in lye, in a bid to separate the meat from his skeleton. Next they would have cut his skeleton into pieces, and sold them as relics.

        The Messiah could have hardly resurrected if this kind of Satanists had been around at this time. Because of an almost mind blowing adoration of death.

      3. Note: Beatification and then canonization is saying that a person lead a life of heroic virtue and selflessness, therefore they are good role models for life and that they are in the communion of saints in heaven, so we ask them to pray for us the same way we ask friends on earth to pray for us.

        “The Old Testament, too, speaks of the intercession of ‘dead’ Saints as it describes how Moses and Samuel, bodily dead, ask God for mercy for those on earth (Jeremiah 15:1).” Only after the Reformation did the non-Catholics change the Word of God to say “If Moses and Samuel were to stand before me” rather than the true from-the-original-text “Though Moses and Samuel stood before me”.

      4. Those are untruthful and hurtful words. You see only what you wish to see. I say with compassion not spite that I hope you can one day be charitable to others who rather than alienating them.

        Also, regarding your comment on the book of Sirach: Please, please, please check history. 🙂 Those 7 books were not part of Hebrew Canon because they were not written in Hebrew (in Greek near Christ’s “modern era” as the New Testament was written because it was the standard written language of the period and place) and so deemed not the Sacred Word of God -after- Christ’s death. But Christ Himself read those books in the Temple. They have always been “in” the Bible, the Bible which was formed guided by the Holy Spirit around 367 AD. It was Luther who decided to take them out as they did not agree with his theology, changing the Word of God.

        So please remember that it is the Catholic Church guided by the Holy Spirit to put the New Testament together. It has always been since Christ Himself and from then on always will be the Catholic Church’s duty to safeguard Scripture. The Word of God is here because of the Catholic Church–which our Lord owned and declared as His Church–not because He handed out Bibles before ascending into heaven.

      5. dear cathmom


        Please forgive me, I am not supposed to hurt people who search for the truth.

        Is there absolutely nothing that can open your eyes?

        What kind of horrible crimes do the Vatican have to do, before you are able to renounce the papacy as evil and a seat of an antichrist?

        The very idea of cutting heads of ex-hummed corpses, and place them in “Churches” is the height of godlessness in the name of “Christ”.

        If you support this to be “holiness”, the judgment you will face will be just and correct.

      6. Please, please remember that the Catholic Church compiled the books of the Bible. If you cling to the Bible you cannot cut off that God worked through His Church to bring the Bible about.

        Thank you for your time.

      7. cathmom

        Shalom, dear sister.

        You wrote:

        Please, please remember that the Catholic Church compiled the books of the Bible. If you cling to the Bible you cannot cut off that God worked through His Church to bring the Bible about.

        My comment:

        I can see you are searching for the truth.

        The Bible is a Jewish book. The Hebrew Bible was canonized before Jesus was born. It was a book of promises given by God. That there would come a Messiah, who would be the suffering servant. God told the Jews that He would forgive their sins.

        The New Testament is just a confirmation of the Old testament. When Jesus walked on Earth, there was no New Testament. Jesus quoted from the scriptures in the Old testament. He did not change a single letter of the Bible. Not the Torah, nor the Psalms. He came to confirm the truth already found in the Bible. The Messiah explained where man had misunderstood or misused the Scriptures.

        By His confirmation, the Jewish New Testament writers was told by the Holy Spirit. Jesus is the Messiah. He is the truth. Listen to Him.

        Thank you for your time.

      8. 🙂 Seeing as not every detail Christ acted or said is found in Scripture … and seeing as those books were not thrown out until after Christ’s ascension … and seeing as proof is found Jews did, in fact, read those books in the Temple … it is safe to assume Jesus Himself read and taught from them.

        I am leaving this discussion as I can spend all night going back and forth and have family to tend to. May God bless you.

      1. Dear cathmom


        You wrote:

        Then cemeteries must be evil and godless. You seem to think skulls are revered because they are in a church—what utter nonsense.

        My comment:

        Why at all cut the head of exhumed corpses. Why can Roman Catholics not read what is written on the stones on the grave yard: R.I.P.

        Can you not see that this is grave looting?

        Can you not see that this is to, at best, disturb the dead?

        If you believe in the resurrection of the body, how can the “Holy relics” be brought back to the skeleton they were cut off from?

        To pray in front of a dead mans bones, or any kind of remains, is worship of created things. It is a manifestation of a dead cult, that has grown to about one billion people.

      2. My friend, I will pray for you. Perhaps you will find this helpful in finding the Truth:

        I close this discussion because we could go back and forth for a very long time and neither of us budge. You see, if you do not believe in the communion of saints (namely, that the saints in heaven aren’t “cut off” but that they do care about and pray for us) then no, you would not understand relics and might believe we “worship” and “idolize” them. Just because I have a photo of my grandmother or a lock of her hair doesn’t mean I worship her; it means she is dear to me.

        + All for the greater glory of God.

      3. Dear cathmom


        You are right. I am wasting my time. I need to spend more time reading the Bible, and obey the commands of Jesus.

        His grave is empty. HE IS ALIVE!

        No Roman Catholics managed to exhume him, and cut his skeleton into pieces. No one can claim they have a relic of his body, with out being exposed as a blunt religious fraud.

        May Jesus the Messiah open your eyes, so you can experience the ultimate freedom from wickedness. Amen.

      4. Dear Cathmom.

        How would you feel if your mother’s skeleton was dug up and used as decoration in the church? How about your son or daughter ? The remains of these people had families. What a shame and lack of respect for the dead!!! They take the bones and make a lamp fixture out of them. Insane.

    1. Hello sueliz1! Do you believe it to be scary because there are bones? Chapels such as this, for example the chapel below the famous Colosseum in Rome, house many remains of the martyrs who were killed there to remind us (1) this world is fleeting, and death and judgement will one day come so (2) hold steadfast to your faith in God as these did. Reminding ourselves of the last things (death, judgement, heaven and hell) are not “spooky” but we need to remember they are very real! 🙂

      May God bless you!

      1. Cathmon, you are trying to defend something that is indefensible. Using people’s remains as ornaments is evil. Death is God’s last enemy–why would we want to celebrate it? Shocking and nauseating people with corpses is hardly a way of showing them the love of Christ our love for those believers who have gone before us. Is this how we are to respect the martyrs—by strewing their remains throughout our churches? This is so wrong on many levels.

      2. It is not ‘scarey’ in the sense of fear….it’s the ‘spiritual senses awaken to the point’ we are aware that there all manner of demons present and that is a major red flag to our being. Not that they would jump on us as the movies proclaims but rather knowing we are walking thru and/or in the breeding grounds of Death…”Real Spiritual Death”….made and marketed to the people for the express purpose to keep them in the throes of deaf, dumb and blind less they “see the truth and repent and turn to Jesus Christ for Life in Him” Know one who has ever been set free from that spiritual death wants to go back, yet the Scriptures tells us, SOME WILL….If they do, …Hebrew 6:4 For [it is] impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, (6:5) And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put [him] to an open shame.

      3. Cathmom, I read from the link that you posted:

        “Relics include the physical remains of a saint (or of a person who is considered holy but not yet officially canonized) as well as other objects which have been “sanctified” by being touched to his body.”

        1. Only God is holy. “Holy, holy, holy is the Lord Almighty.” Believers are not called holy in the Old Testament or the New Testament. They are loved by God, and set apart for service to Him, but to call another human being holy is to lift him up to be on par with God Himself and that should never be done. How can any object be “sanctified” by being touched to the body of a human being? Where in the Bible are we told this is possible?

        2. Keeping relics is a pagan custom that seeks to “deify” a human being. In ancient times, a king would seek to ensure that his remains were venerated and that he would gain “god” status to his people. Focusing on this kind of thing keeps our minds on earthly things rather than on things above (as Scripture admonishes us to do in Colossians 3:20).

    2. So in answer to your question, yes of course I would bring my children there, for there lies our heritage and the burial place of the Christians who fought the good fight before us. I bring my children to the cemeteries our relatives are buried to remember them and where we come from, no one would object to that. This is no different.

      It is Satan who has twisted death to be sinister and occultish, something to fear. But we have no reason to fear death, Christ conquered death!

      1. Cathmom.

        If you take your kids to this church surely they will have nightmares and may need to see a counselor to cope with the horror of it.

      2. You are being incredibly hateful, which does not help lead others to Christ so I wonder why you take the approach, unless you are merely trying to point out your belief in my stupidity, which can’t be a better use of your time.

        Read about relics from actual Catholics, not what someone says Catholics say. 🙂 May God bless you.

      3. Dear Cathmom


        You wrote to Sueliz1.

        You are being incredibly hateful, which does not help lead others to Christ.

        My comment:

        1. The Roman Catholic Church keeps a billion people in bondage to a false ‘Christ”. Hundreds of millions of people take a stand against the true Jesus, seeing the perversions of the Vatican presented as true “Christianity”. The Pope will have to pay for eternity, for being the source of this spiritual disaster.

        2. Let me remind you that only a few people will accept the truth. The large majority chose to accept falsehood, and walk through the wide gates of Hell.

        3. What we try to do, is to reach people to the true God of Israel. He can not be found in the worship of the dead, but in the acceptance of God of the living.

        4. When you accuse others of being “hateful”, you are in one sense correct. We HATE sin, religious fraud and wickedness. But we love you enough to tell you the truth.

        May Jesus the Messiah have mercy on us all. Amen.

      4. I really do mean with all due respect, it is quite apparent, and very saddening to me, that you do not know the truth of Christ. I love you both very much and if we were in person I would be very interested in continuing this discussion. If nothing else, I have learned that by your guidelines you must see Christ Himself as idolatrous, and that is very saddening to me. May God bless you both!

  4. Cathmom.

    How am I being hateful? You must personalize the bones and skulls to understand the horror of it. What if it was your family skulls on the wall. Surely your mind would change. If you see nothing wrong with it you wouldn’t mind your own deceased relative to become a lamp fixture. If you do mind you are really not okay with this practice.
    Love in Jesus.

    1. SueLiz,

      My Mother passed away a devout RCC believer 5 years ago. If the church canonized her & decided to exhume her body/bones, wax it up & put it on display—I would be horrified. Anyone who digs up bones & cuts them up so people can have them in their homes or pockets to do whatever they want with it is simply not right. I don’t care what kind of justification you give…don’t play with dead people’s bones!!!


  5. Cathmom.

    I am not a stranger to Catholicism. I used to be one and attended Franciscan University of Steubenville. For all my life I believed as you. I discovered the true gospel was hidden for me all that time. Religion is a false security. The church can’t save you but Jesus can. You are saved by believing He died for you. Not by receiving sacraments which is what Rome says.

    Cathmom. There is no ladder high enough to climb to get you to heaven. Only by His blood. The RCC has much for you to do to earn your way: mass attendance, holy days of obligation, no meat on Fridays in Lent, indulgences to reduce time in purgatory.

    All who believe on the Lord Jesus and accept Him as savior will be saved. There is not one iota in sculpture about mass, indulgences and losing salvation for not going to church on Assumption of Mary feast day. Nothing about immaculate conception.

    There is so much contradiction between the catechism and the bible. The catholic gospel and the biblical gospel. I pray you will see the stark contrast and come to see the difference.

      1. Suzi…>>>.For all my life I believed as you. I discovered the true gospel was hidden for me all that time. Religion is a false security. The church can’t save you but Jesus can.<< A real eye opener huh 🙂 really wonderful huh Suzi… Like the Old TV Show many years ago.."Will the Real Jesus step forward"…Oh Glory when that happened to me…He ascended to The Throne of all Thrones to me, in me …daily He revealed His self more and more in all ways, things and the lies of the Enemy will never be desired again of any kind! Truly with Jesus, the word 'the world uses to get people to 'think of self' ..self esteem…is no longer the same, it's all about "Esteeming Jesus''…My GOD, My LORD, My Love..

  6. there is error in this and I only read a paragraph.
    Jesus hated the Pharisees not because they obeyed God but because they obeyed mans traditions more just like the catholics , Jesus didn’t love spending time with sinners like you say, he came to free them from their sins, to God. The righteous didn’t need to be freed from sin. New and old testament show righteous men of God talking bad of sinners all the time. Look at Job, John the Baptist, and Jesus. Pharisees were sinners and Jesus didn’t like them but they were around him all the time

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